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Who could replace BW?
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monarx Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Who could replace BW?
A fourth place finish in football would be outstanding compared to where we are. Less than 4th in basketball, ever, men or women, is disappointing and we should make the NCAAs at Least once every 4 years.
10-03-2019 03:18 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Who could replace BW?
Look at it this way: If everyone in CUSA had top 25 percent as an expectation for one sport, 75 percent of them would be bitterly disappointed in any given year. Expand that to top 25 percent in EVERY sport and I'm pretty sure that number grows to 100 percent. ODU isn't to CUSA what Gonzaga is to the WCC. I don't think top quarter in all sports is a bad goal at all, and it's certainly not a case of lowered expectations, unless you honestly believe that ODU by birthright should be lapping the rest of the conference on their way to the AAC and eventually a P5 home.
10-03-2019 09:03 PM
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ODU2011 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Who could replace BW?
Anyone who can own and learn from their mistakes. So pretty much anyone but bw.
10-03-2019 09:33 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Who could replace BW?
(10-03-2019 09:03 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Look at it this way: If everyone in CUSA had top 25 percent as an expectation for one sport, 75 percent of them would be bitterly disappointed in any given year. Expand that to top 25 percent in EVERY sport and I'm pretty sure that number grows to 100 percent. ODU isn't to CUSA what Gonzaga is to the WCC. I don't think top quarter in all sports is a bad goal at all, and it's certainly not a case of lowered expectations, unless you honestly believe that ODU by birthright should be lapping the rest of the conference on their way to the AAC and eventually a P5 home.
Cool. So being pretty decent is something to strive for. Maybe we as fans should just strive to be top 25% in CUSA in budget too. Bet Wood would disagree with that.

The goal should be to be the standard bearer for the conference. Not because we have a birth right, but because we want to be the best, and are committed to constantly assessing our athletics program in that context. That is what it takes to take it to the next level. Do you think Dabo told Clemson that he wanted to build a team that finishes in the top 25% of the ACC when he took over a very average Clemson program? Do you think Coach K strove to be top 25% of the ACC? Was satisfied with finishing 4th? Nick Saban? It is a **** goal. It is a bean counter's goal. It is not a goal that someone who is committed to being the best would ever consider.

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10-03-2019 10:26 PM
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Justanodufan Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Who could replace BW?
(10-03-2019 03:18 PM)monarx Wrote:  A fourth place finish in football would be outstanding compared to where we are. Less than 4th in basketball, ever, men or women, is disappointing and we should make the NCAAs at Least once every 4 years.


Wait? So the sport that has the most money spent on it just has to place 4th & you’re okay with that?
4th in their division could be a 4 win season.

Yet basketball is expected to finish in the top 4 every year despite playing all the top teams in the conference

That makes no sense
10-03-2019 11:41 PM
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Chillie Willie Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Who could replace BW?
(10-03-2019 10:26 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-03-2019 09:03 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Look at it this way: If everyone in CUSA had top 25 percent as an expectation for one sport, 75 percent of them would be bitterly disappointed in any given year. Expand that to top 25 percent in EVERY sport and I'm pretty sure that number grows to 100 percent. ODU isn't to CUSA what Gonzaga is to the WCC. I don't think top quarter in all sports is a bad goal at all, and it's certainly not a case of lowered expectations, unless you honestly believe that ODU by birthright should be lapping the rest of the conference on their way to the AAC and eventually a P5 home.
Cool. So being pretty decent is something to strive for. Maybe we as fans should just strive to be top 25% in CUSA in budget too. Bet Wood would disagree with that.

The goal should be to be the standard bearer for the conference. Not because we have a birth right, but because we want to be the best, and are committed to constantly assessing our athletics program in that context. That is what it takes to take it to the next level. Do you think Dabo told Clemson that he wanted to build a team that finishes in the top 25% of the ACC when he took over a very average Clemson program? Do you think Coach K strove to be top 25% of the ACC? Was satisfied with finishing 4th? Nick Saban? It is a **** goal. It is a bean counter's goal. It is not a goal that someone who is committed to being the best would ever consider.

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I agree that the goal should be to win the conference, although I'm not sure what your definition of "standard bearer" is. But there is a difference between goals and expectations. Yes we should strive to win the conference every year, but you shouldn't expect it. Even Coach K doesn't win every year. I think go through the Fire Wilder thread you will see what a lot of people's expectations are. Personally I'm very conflicted on what to expect for football, but I can tell you that I will become very agitated if losing seasons become the norm. I don't think playing a post-season game more often than not is too much to expect.
10-04-2019 12:15 AM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Who could replace BW?
Even though the goal is apparently just top 25% (you can agree or disagree of that being a good goal for us or not), the reality is we haven't hit that in the last two years and will very likely not hit that this year in arguably the most important sport. Afterall, the move to CUSA was a football driven decision. So how many years of missing the goal will it take to fire the coach? If they simply just wait for the contract to expire, then this goal is completely devoid of meaning anyway.

BTW, a top 25% finish in football is 1 or 2 in the east, which we have only done once in six years. So maybe the goal is meaningless anyway.
10-04-2019 08:01 AM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Who could replace BW?
(10-04-2019 08:01 AM)odu09 Wrote:  BTW, a top 25% finish in football is 1 or 2 in the east, which we have only done once in six years. So maybe the goal is meaningless anyway.

I would not say it's meaningless. The fact we transitioned up to FBS must be in included in the equation of those 6 years. Now I'm not giving him carte blanche to fail. But it should be taken into consideration when evaluating most of those 6 years.

As of now, I'm excited about the growth of the defense. And would be all for seeing what hiring an OC outside of the Maine coaching tree would do for the offense. But there is a lot of season left and that could sway me to either side of the discussion.
10-04-2019 08:31 AM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Who could replace BW?
(10-04-2019 08:31 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:01 AM)odu09 Wrote:  BTW, a top 25% finish in football is 1 or 2 in the east, which we have only done once in six years. So maybe the goal is meaningless anyway.

I would not say it's meaningless. The fact we transitioned up to FBS must be in included in the equation of those 6 years. Now I'm not giving him carte blanche to fail. But it should be taken into consideration when evaluating most of those 6 years.

As of now, I'm excited about the growth of the defense. And would be all for seeing what hiring an OC outside of the Maine coaching tree would do for the offense. But there is a lot of season left and that could sway me to either side of the discussion.

You're right, transition to FBS should matter. The problem I have is after that really successful season, we've somehow trended down since. I'm sure the main reason is facilities... hopefully. There's still plenty of season left, sure, but if the game against a bad ECU team is the formula for beating us, we are in for a long season. We'll see.
10-04-2019 08:37 AM
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Justanodufan Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Who could replace BW?
(10-04-2019 08:37 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:31 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:01 AM)odu09 Wrote:  BTW, a top 25% finish in football is 1 or 2 in the east, which we have only done once in six years. So maybe the goal is meaningless anyway.

I would not say it's meaningless. The fact we transitioned up to FBS must be in included in the equation of those 6 years. Now I'm not giving him carte blanche to fail. But it should be taken into consideration when evaluating most of those 6 years.

As of now, I'm excited about the growth of the defense. And would be all for seeing what hiring an OC outside of the Maine coaching tree would do for the offense. But there is a lot of season left and that could sway me to either side of the discussion.

You're right, transition to FBS should matter. The problem I have is after that really successful season, we've somehow trended down since. I'm sure the main reason is facilities... hopefully. There's still plenty of season left, sure, but if the game against a bad ECU team is the formula for beating us, we are in for a long season. We'll see.

At what point is the “transition to FBS” excuse no longer acceptable?

App State transitioned in 2003 and has had the following success:

4 bowl games (4 wins)
3 conference championships
Top 25 ranking


And since the “next” excuse will be “well they have had football longer than we have” at what point where that excuse no longer be valid?

Because at this point Georgia State has played in more bowl games than us. 07-coffee3
10-04-2019 09:13 AM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Who could replace BW?
I think App State had the best FCS to FBS transition, ever. I'm fine with using them for comparisons, but most teams struggle. Having said that, since our transition years were 2013 (independent with 5 FBS teams on the schedule) to 2014, I think we can say in 2019 that the transition is long behind us and should no longer be used as an excuse. There is a caveat there whenever we look back at our historical record though, as we should. I'm more concerned about the recent trend, which is steadily downward.
10-04-2019 09:19 AM
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AimHigh Offline
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RE: Who could replace BW?
(10-04-2019 09:13 AM)Justanodufan Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:37 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:31 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:01 AM)odu09 Wrote:  BTW, a top 25% finish in football is 1 or 2 in the east, which we have only done once in six years. So maybe the goal is meaningless anyway.

I would not say it's meaningless. The fact we transitioned up to FBS must be in included in the equation of those 6 years. Now I'm not giving him carte blanche to fail. But it should be taken into consideration when evaluating most of those 6 years.

As of now, I'm excited about the growth of the defense. And would be all for seeing what hiring an OC outside of the Maine coaching tree would do for the offense. But there is a lot of season left and that could sway me to either side of the discussion.

You're right, transition to FBS should matter. The problem I have is after that really successful season, we've somehow trended down since. I'm sure the main reason is facilities... hopefully. There's still plenty of season left, sure, but if the game against a bad ECU team is the formula for beating us, we are in for a long season. We'll see.

At what point is the “transition to FBS” excuse no longer acceptable?

App State transitioned in 2013-2014 and has had the following success:

4 bowl games (4 wins)
3 conference championships
Top 25 ranking


And since the “next” excuse will be “well they have had football longer than we have” at what point where that excuse no longer be valid?

Because at this point Georgia State has played in more bowl games than us. 07-coffee3

FIFY 04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 10-04-2019 09:23 AM by AimHigh.)
10-04-2019 09:21 AM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Who could replace BW?
(10-04-2019 09:13 AM)Justanodufan Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:37 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:31 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:01 AM)odu09 Wrote:  BTW, a top 25% finish in football is 1 or 2 in the east, which we have only done once in six years. So maybe the goal is meaningless anyway.

I would not say it's meaningless. The fact we transitioned up to FBS must be in included in the equation of those 6 years. Now I'm not giving him carte blanche to fail. But it should be taken into consideration when evaluating most of those 6 years.

As of now, I'm excited about the growth of the defense. And would be all for seeing what hiring an OC outside of the Maine coaching tree would do for the offense. But there is a lot of season left and that could sway me to either side of the discussion.

You're right, transition to FBS should matter. The problem I have is after that really successful season, we've somehow trended down since. I'm sure the main reason is facilities... hopefully. There's still plenty of season left, sure, but if the game against a bad ECU team is the formula for beating us, we are in for a long season. We'll see.

At what point is the “transition to FBS” excuse no longer acceptable?

App State transitioned in 2003 and has had the following success:

4 bowl games (4 wins)
3 conference championships
Top 25 ranking


And since the “next” excuse will be “well they have had football longer than we have” at what point where that excuse no longer be valid?

Because at this point Georgia State has played in more bowl games than us. 07-coffee3

You realize the thread you're replying to doesn't have to do with whether or not we should fire Bobby now? But instead is a discussion of whether he should be judged for not meeting the goal of finishing in the top 1/4 of the league during the transition years.
10-04-2019 09:21 AM
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Justanodufan Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Who could replace BW?
(10-04-2019 09:21 AM)AimHigh Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 09:13 AM)Justanodufan Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:37 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:31 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:01 AM)odu09 Wrote:  BTW, a top 25% finish in football is 1 or 2 in the east, which we have only done once in six years. So maybe the goal is meaningless anyway.

I would not say it's meaningless. The fact we transitioned up to FBS must be in included in the equation of those 6 years. Now I'm not giving him carte blanche to fail. But it should be taken into consideration when evaluating most of those 6 years.

As of now, I'm excited about the growth of the defense. And would be all for seeing what hiring an OC outside of the Maine coaching tree would do for the offense. But there is a lot of season left and that could sway me to either side of the discussion.

You're right, transition to FBS should matter. The problem I have is after that really successful season, we've somehow trended down since. I'm sure the main reason is facilities... hopefully. There's still plenty of season left, sure, but if the game against a bad ECU team is the formula for beating us, we are in for a long season. We'll see.

At what point is the “transition to FBS” excuse no longer acceptable?

App State transitioned in 2013-2014 and has had the following success:

4 bowl games (4 wins)
3 conference championships
Top 25 ranking


And since the “next” excuse will be “well they have had football longer than we have” at what point where that excuse no longer be valid?

Because at this point Georgia State has played in more bowl games than us. 07-coffee3

FIFY 04-cheers

Thanks
10-04-2019 09:46 AM
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Justanodufan Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Who could replace BW?
(10-04-2019 09:21 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 09:13 AM)Justanodufan Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:37 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:31 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:01 AM)odu09 Wrote:  BTW, a top 25% finish in football is 1 or 2 in the east, which we have only done once in six years. So maybe the goal is meaningless anyway.

I would not say it's meaningless. The fact we transitioned up to FBS must be in included in the equation of those 6 years. Now I'm not giving him carte blanche to fail. But it should be taken into consideration when evaluating most of those 6 years.

As of now, I'm excited about the growth of the defense. And would be all for seeing what hiring an OC outside of the Maine coaching tree would do for the offense. But there is a lot of season left and that could sway me to either side of the discussion.

You're right, transition to FBS should matter. The problem I have is after that really successful season, we've somehow trended down since. I'm sure the main reason is facilities... hopefully. There's still plenty of season left, sure, but if the game against a bad ECU team is the formula for beating us, we are in for a long season. We'll see.

At what point is the “transition to FBS” excuse no longer acceptable?

App State transitioned in 2003 and has had the following success:

4 bowl games (4 wins)
3 conference championships
Top 25 ranking


And since the “next” excuse will be “well they have had football longer than we have” at what point where that excuse no longer be valid?

Because at this point Georgia State has played in more bowl games than us. 07-coffee3

You realize the thread you're replying to doesn't have to do with whether or not we should fire Bobby now? But instead is a discussion of whether he should be judged for not meeting the goal of finishing in the top 1/4 of the league during the transition years.

You realize that the comments I replied to are directly talking about the transition. And based on the title of the thread it’s not about if he doesn’t finish in the top 4, it’s about who should replace him. I suggest you go police someone else’s comments
10-04-2019 09:48 AM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Who could replace BW?
(10-04-2019 09:48 AM)Justanodufan Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 09:21 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 09:13 AM)Justanodufan Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:37 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:31 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  I would not say it's meaningless. The fact we transitioned up to FBS must be in included in the equation of those 6 years. Now I'm not giving him carte blanche to fail. But it should be taken into consideration when evaluating most of those 6 years.

As of now, I'm excited about the growth of the defense. And would be all for seeing what hiring an OC outside of the Maine coaching tree would do for the offense. But there is a lot of season left and that could sway me to either side of the discussion.

You're right, transition to FBS should matter. The problem I have is after that really successful season, we've somehow trended down since. I'm sure the main reason is facilities... hopefully. There's still plenty of season left, sure, but if the game against a bad ECU team is the formula for beating us, we are in for a long season. We'll see.

At what point is the “transition to FBS” excuse no longer acceptable?

App State transitioned in 2003 and has had the following success:

4 bowl games (4 wins)
3 conference championships
Top 25 ranking


And since the “next” excuse will be “well they have had football longer than we have” at what point where that excuse no longer be valid?

Because at this point Georgia State has played in more bowl games than us. 07-coffee3

You realize the thread you're replying to doesn't have to do with whether or not we should fire Bobby now? But instead is a discussion of whether he should be judged for not meeting the goal of finishing in the top 1/4 of the league during the transition years.

You realize that the comments I replied to are directly talking about the transition. And based on the title of the thread it’s not about if he doesn’t finish in the top 4, it’s about who should replace him. I suggest you go police someone else’s comments

No, the thread of comments you replied to are talking about taking the transition under consideration when judging whether he met Wood's stated goals of finishing in the top quarter of the league or not during the transition years.

Neither of us were saying the transition is an excuse for this season.
(This post was last modified: 10-04-2019 09:56 AM by ODUDrunkard13.)
10-04-2019 09:53 AM
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Nukesquad Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Who could replace BW?
I give App State all the credit in the world with their FBS transition. Yes, we are all envious of their progress. However for ODU, as I've stated in other threads, it's now all about budget allocation. To take the next successful step in progressing FB & MBB, you will need to reallocate the budget to do so. The ODU budget is not increasing anytime soon, so it's going to take taking it from somewhere (i.e. other sports programs) else. If people feel that doesn't seem "fair" or the "right thing to do", that could be a valid argument; but they should realize then both FB & MBB are basically at their ceiling. If people want to really break through this ceiling, then budget funds will need to be moved around accordingly.

I take a general look at the state of the non-FB App St teams over that last several years:

MBB/WBB - mostly losing seasons
Baseball - not competitive
M&W Tennis- mediocre at best
M&W Golf - not very competitive
Softball - rarely above .500 at best
MSOC - mostly losing records
WSOC - a little better than MSOC, but not by much

This is purely my looking at past records, and I don't know anything of their athletic finances, coaching dynamic/changes, etc. But I truly feel that it's at least a good reflection of the priorities of their athletic department...which is screaming "PUSH THE FB FORWARD!"
10-04-2019 09:54 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Who could replace BW?
Football, Mens & Womens basketball are the only sports that really matter. We could win national championships in Field Hockey, Soccer, Sailing and Swimming and Id trade them all for a bowl game and two NCAA first round appearances. The big three sports are where the vast majority of our athletics budget should be going. After that, I care about soccer and baseball and love our history with field hockey, wrestling and sailing... but the priority has to be to win in the big 3 first.
(This post was last modified: 10-04-2019 12:55 PM by monarx.)
10-04-2019 12:54 PM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Who could replace BW?
I'm thinking during the next round of realignment, if it happens, if we don't get the AAC invite and seem doomed to CUSA or some combination of CUSA/Sunbelt realignment, then maybe it's time to drop some of the other sports. We already field the most sports in CUSA, and the only reason to keep them is to look attractive to AAC.

It can't be tennis, because we have a world class tennis facility, I don't think it can be baseball, and it shouldn't be golf or sailing since we have the course and water.

That leaves wrestling and/or mens swimming/diving. I wonder how many would be upset if we dropped those and put those dollars toward football and basketball?
10-04-2019 01:45 PM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Who could replace BW?
(10-04-2019 01:45 PM)odu09 Wrote:  I'm thinking during the next round of realignment, if it happens, if we don't get the AAC invite and seem doomed to CUSA or some combination of CUSA/Sunbelt realignment, then maybe it's time to drop some of the other sports. We already field the most sports in CUSA, and the only reason to keep them is to look attractive to AAC.

It can't be tennis, because we have a world class tennis facility, I don't think it can be baseball, and it shouldn't be golf or sailing since we have the course and water.

That leaves wrestling and/or mens swimming/diving. I wonder how many would be upset if we dropped those and put those dollars toward football and basketball?

We lose the golf course in 2023.
10-04-2019 01:47 PM
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