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Alabama #1, SMU ranked for first time since Death Penalty
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Alabama #1, SMU ranked for first time since Death Penalty
(10-02-2019 06:47 PM)cubucks Wrote:  And it's great how all of America always overlooks that team from Madison year in and year out.

You know, the team since the CFP era started has gone 53-15 and is 5-0 in bowl games. That's better than Penn State, Michigan, Florida State, Texas, Auburn, LSU, USC etc...
But nobody ever gives them much credit.

This game gets more corrupt every year!

Peace!

Wisconsin is a good program, but hasn't proven to be elite in the CFP era.

They have 3 losses in the Big Ten title game...one of those a 59-0 drubbing at the hands of the eventual national champ. A bad performance to open the season in 2015 against Alabama. They split a series with LSU, but the team they lost to in 2014 eventually lost 5 games.

That and they had 5 losses just last season. One of them to BYU, another one a solid beating at the hands of a Michigan team no one was terribly impressed with, and another to a 6 loss Minnesota team.

To date, the committee has demonstrated they take track record into consideration. So I don't see a reason to attach great expectations to Wisconsin at this time. They could certainly make the playoff, but they will have a small margin for error.

I named the schools I named earlier for a reason. They've either competed for or won a national championship in recent years. It's a small club, but the committee is risk averse and they like TV ratings. It is what it is. Basically anyone outside that club has a strike against them before the season starts.
10-03-2019 12:24 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Alabama #1, SMU ranked for first time since Death Penalty
(10-02-2019 06:47 PM)cubucks Wrote:  And it's great how all of America always overlooks that team from Madison year in and year out.

You know, the team since the CFP era started has gone 53-15 and is 5-0 in bowl games. That's better than Penn State, Michigan, Florida State, Texas, Auburn, LSU, USC etc...
But nobody ever gives them much credit.

This game gets more corrupt every year!

Peace!

you do understand 15 losses in 5 years is an average of 3 losses per year... had only 1 1 loss season. made Big Ten title game 3 times and lost all 3...

also this year there wasn't much on Wisconsin after last year them going only 8-5.
10-03-2019 01:11 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Alabama #1, SMU ranked for first time since Death Penalty
(10-02-2019 06:27 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(10-02-2019 06:20 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  And BTW - what has Florida done that is so impressive?

Yes, they are 5-0, but those five wins:
Squeaker over 2-2 Miami, who is not a good team
TWO FCS wins
Wins over BAD Kentucky and Terrible Tennessee.

Florida will get destroyed by LSU, Auburn and Georgia. Could lose at Missouri. They aren't top 25 material.


And if LSU is a divisional champ, they can't be 11-1
Been saying this for 2 weeks. Funny how Texas A&M is still ranked because their sos is so hard even with 2 losses. Well if sos matters so much for them why is Florida ranked ahead of all these schools with a much better sos? When I say I'm tired of the crap the polls, media, fans etc... are feeding us, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

People who say that TAMU is still ranked despite two losses because of SOS are just speculating. Truth is, there is no "why" because the AP and Coaches polls are the opinions of those who vote, each of whom may have different reasons.

Personally, I am OK with TAMU being #25. They look like a 25-ish team to me. They just happened to play two top 10 teams so far.
10-03-2019 08:31 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Alabama #1, SMU ranked for first time since Death Penalty
(10-03-2019 12:24 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(10-02-2019 06:47 PM)cubucks Wrote:  And it's great how all of America always overlooks that team from Madison year in and year out.

You know, the team since the CFP era started has gone 53-15 and is 5-0 in bowl games. That's better than Penn State, Michigan, Florida State, Texas, Auburn, LSU, USC etc...
But nobody ever gives them much credit.

This game gets more corrupt every year!

Peace!

Wisconsin is a good program, but hasn't proven to be elite in the CFP era.

It depends on how you define "elite". If you restrict it to three teams, then Wisky doesn't belong.

But really, in terms of results on the field, if you expand it to even 5 teams, then Wisky probably does belong. They have performed as well on the field as anyone during the CFP era save for Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State, the three teams that have won national titles.
10-03-2019 08:42 AM
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Post: #65
RE: Alabama #1, SMU ranked for first time since Death Penalty
(10-03-2019 08:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-02-2019 06:27 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(10-02-2019 06:20 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  And BTW - what has Florida done that is so impressive?

Yes, they are 5-0, but those five wins:
Squeaker over 2-2 Miami, who is not a good team
TWO FCS wins
Wins over BAD Kentucky and Terrible Tennessee.

Florida will get destroyed by LSU, Auburn and Georgia. Could lose at Missouri. They aren't top 25 material.


And if LSU is a divisional champ, they can't be 11-1
Been saying this for 2 weeks. Funny how Texas A&M is still ranked because their sos is so hard even with 2 losses. Well if sos matters so much for them why is Florida ranked ahead of all these schools with a much better sos? When I say I'm tired of the crap the polls, media, fans etc... are feeding us, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

People who say that TAMU is still ranked despite two losses because of SOS are just speculating. Truth is, there is no "why" because the AP and Coaches polls are the opinions of those who vote, each of whom may have different reasons.

Personally, I am OK with TAMU being #25. They look like a 25-ish team to me. They just happened to play two top 10 teams so far.
Speculating? So why else would they be ranked with 2 loses other than sos? If you replace games against Clemson and Auburn with Coastal Carolina and Rutgers, would they still be ranked? With 2 losses and that schedule?

Did you see me say anything negative about Texas A&M being ranked? I used their ranking and sos for an example towards Florida and their ranking with a crap sos.
10-03-2019 08:46 AM
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Post: #66
RE: Alabama #1, SMU ranked for first time since Death Penalty
(10-03-2019 01:11 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-02-2019 06:47 PM)cubucks Wrote:  And it's great how all of America always overlooks that team from Madison year in and year out.

You know, the team since the CFP era started has gone 53-15 and is 5-0 in bowl games. That's better than Penn State, Michigan, Florida State, Texas, Auburn, LSU, USC etc...
But nobody ever gives them much credit.

This game gets more corrupt every year!

Peace!

you do understand 15 losses in 5 years is an average of 3 losses per year... had only 1 1 loss season. made Big Ten title game 3 times and lost all 3...

also this year there wasn't much on Wisconsin after last year them going only 8-5.
Lol, yes I'm a mathematical genius and I'm able to do 15รท5=3.
10-03-2019 08:47 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Alabama #1, SMU ranked for first time since Death Penalty
(10-03-2019 08:46 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(10-03-2019 08:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-02-2019 06:27 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(10-02-2019 06:20 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  And BTW - what has Florida done that is so impressive?

Yes, they are 5-0, but those five wins:
Squeaker over 2-2 Miami, who is not a good team
TWO FCS wins
Wins over BAD Kentucky and Terrible Tennessee.

Florida will get destroyed by LSU, Auburn and Georgia. Could lose at Missouri. They aren't top 25 material.


And if LSU is a divisional champ, they can't be 11-1
Been saying this for 2 weeks. Funny how Texas A&M is still ranked because their sos is so hard even with 2 losses. Well if sos matters so much for them why is Florida ranked ahead of all these schools with a much better sos? When I say I'm tired of the crap the polls, media, fans etc... are feeding us, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

People who say that TAMU is still ranked despite two losses because of SOS are just speculating. Truth is, there is no "why" because the AP and Coaches polls are the opinions of those who vote, each of whom may have different reasons.

Personally, I am OK with TAMU being #25. They look like a 25-ish team to me. They just happened to play two top 10 teams so far.
Speculating? So why else would they be ranked with 2 loses other than sos? If you replace games against Clemson and Auburn with Coastal Carolina and Rutgers, would they still be ranked? With 2 losses and that schedule?

Did you see me say anything negative about Texas A&M being ranked? I used their ranking and sos for an example towards Florida and their ranking with a crap sos.

You tried to point out what you believe is a logical contradiction between TAMU being ranked despite losses because of SOS, and Florida being ranked ahead of a lot of schools with better SOS. BTW, you should use another term, because what you really mean are losses to good teams, which isn't the same thing as SOS. Sagarin, e.g., has TAMU's SOS as #60, pretty low.

Anyway, I tried to explain to you that you are playing a fool's game, because truth is, votes are often made just on gut feeling and the eye test, such that there is not necessarily rhyme or reason for it. You can always pick polls apart this way.

If I had to guess, I'd say Florida is ranked high because (a) they are "Florida", so their past history gives them a presumptive ranking, and (b) because they finished strong last year, so voters think there will be carry over. But as others have noted, rest easy, because with the games on their schedule, if UF is overrated, we will find out soon enough.
10-03-2019 08:56 AM
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Post: #68
RE: Alabama #1, SMU ranked for first time since Death Penalty
AllTideUp and Stever20,

This is since 2014, the start of the CFP era.

Alabama- 67-6 92%, 6-3 bowls
4 cc and 2 nc

Clemson- 65-7 90%, 6-2 bowls
4 cc and 2 nc

Ohio State- 62-7 90%, 5-1 bowls
3 cc and 1 nc

Oklahoma- 54-13 81%, 1-4 bowls
2 cc and 0 nc

Wisconsin- 53-15 78%, 5-0 bowls
0 cc and 0 nc

Georgia- 52-16 76%, 4-2 bowls
1 cc and 0 nc

LSU- 44-19 70%, 3-2 bowls
0 cc and 0 nc

Iowa- 44-22 67%, 2-3 bowls
0 cc and 0 nc

Auburn- 40-25 62%, 2-3 bowls
0 cc and 0 nc

Texas- 33-31 52%, 2-1 bowls
0 cc and 0 nc

Since AllTideUp brought elite into the conversation, I see 3 teams I'd call elite on this list.

Keeping true to this thread, congratulations Alabama on your #1 ranking and congratulations SMU on getting back into the top 25.
10-03-2019 09:04 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Alabama #1, SMU ranked for first time since Death Penalty
I'd agree with you that the 3 have split to some degree. just look at it like this-
Alabama 3 regular season losses
Clemson 5 regular season losses
Ohio St 6 regular season losses
Oklahoma 9 regular season losses
Georgia 14 regular season losses
Wisconsin 15 regular season losses
LSU 17 regular season losses
Iowa 19 regular season losses
Auburn 22 regular season losses

Wisconsin just isn't in the group with the top 4.
10-03-2019 09:23 AM
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RE: Alabama #1, SMU ranked for first time since Death Penalty
(10-03-2019 09:23 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I'd agree with you that the 3 have split to some degree. just look at it like this-
Alabama 3 regular season losses
Clemson 5 regular season losses
Ohio St 6 regular season losses
Oklahoma 9 regular season losses
Georgia 14 regular season losses
Wisconsin 15 regular season losses
LSU 17 regular season losses
Iowa 19 regular season losses
Auburn 22 regular season losses

Wisconsin just isn't in the group with the top 4.
I can 100% agree with you! You said it, top 3 or 4 and then the rest. But, Wisconsin is definitely right there in that second group. This is all I've been trying to say since the thread started. Let's not overlook Wisconsin, Iowa, Penn State, Washington etc... just because they are not in the Southeast. It's arrogant to think that Ohio State or Clemson or Washington etc... are the only good brands in there respected conferences while the SEC has 3,4 or 5 in theirs. That's why I pointed out the numbers, just to give a look at comparison.
10-03-2019 09:37 AM
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RE: Alabama #1, SMU ranked for first time since Death Penalty
And I'm not trying to degrade the SEC at all. Great schools and great football programs.
10-03-2019 09:40 AM
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Post: #72
RE: Alabama #1, SMU ranked for first time since Death Penalty
(10-03-2019 09:37 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(10-03-2019 09:23 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I'd agree with you that the 3 have split to some degree. just look at it like this-
Alabama 3 regular season losses
Clemson 5 regular season losses
Ohio St 6 regular season losses
Oklahoma 9 regular season losses
Georgia 14 regular season losses
Wisconsin 15 regular season losses
LSU 17 regular season losses
Iowa 19 regular season losses
Auburn 22 regular season losses

Wisconsin just isn't in the group with the top 4.
I can 100% agree with you! You said it, top 3 or 4 and then the rest. But, Wisconsin is definitely right there in that second group. This is all I've been trying to say since the thread started. Let's not overlook Wisconsin, Iowa, Penn State, Washington etc... just because they are not in the Southeast. It's arrogant to think that Ohio State or Clemson or Washington etc... are the only good brands in there respected conferences while the SEC has 3,4 or 5 in theirs. That's why I pointed out the numbers, just to give a look at comparison.

Georgia may be getting close though. They've had 3 regular season losses the last 2 years.
10-03-2019 09:45 AM
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RE: Alabama #1, SMU ranked for first time since Death Penalty
(10-03-2019 09:45 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-03-2019 09:37 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(10-03-2019 09:23 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I'd agree with you that the 3 have split to some degree. just look at it like this-
Alabama 3 regular season losses
Clemson 5 regular season losses
Ohio St 6 regular season losses
Oklahoma 9 regular season losses
Georgia 14 regular season losses
Wisconsin 15 regular season losses
LSU 17 regular season losses
Iowa 19 regular season losses
Auburn 22 regular season losses

Wisconsin just isn't in the group with the top 4.
I can 100% agree with you! You said it, top 3 or 4 and then the rest. But, Wisconsin is definitely right there in that second group. This is all I've been trying to say since the thread started. Let's not overlook Wisconsin, Iowa, Penn State, Washington etc... just because they are not in the Southeast. It's arrogant to think that Ohio State or Clemson or Washington etc... are the only good brands in there respected conferences while the SEC has 3,4 or 5 in theirs. That's why I pointed out the numbers, just to give a look at comparison.

Georgia may be getting close though. They've had 3 regular season losses the last 2 years.
Agree, they have had some great teams recently.

I'm interested in them this year, a lot.
10-03-2019 09:52 AM
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RE: Alabama #1, SMU ranked for first time since Death Penalty
(10-03-2019 09:40 AM)cubucks Wrote:  And I'm not trying to degrade the SEC at all. Great schools and great football programs.

Would Wisconsin only have 15 losses if they played in the Big 10 East? Doubt it.

L.S.U. and Auburn play in the SEC West.

Penn State and Michigan have the same problem in the Big 10 and Iowa and Wisconsin do not.

On the flip side Georgia would have more losses as well if they had played in the SEC West.

For instance Auburn annually plays Georgia, L.S.U. and Alabama, and has played Clemson in 3 of those years as well. So just making the list is an accomplishment that several of those above them might not have attained if playing in their respective conference's strongest division.

These are never apples to apples discussions, and are very much like arguing how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin.

I count as elite those programs who have played for or won a national championship within the last 10 years. And the super elite are those who have done it multiple times.

And I see that as more relevant than most forms of argument over the issue because it is malleable.. Teams can move out of elite status and teams can move in and when you are discussing the current reality a decade is long enough to set or lose a trend.
(This post was last modified: 10-03-2019 05:01 PM by JRsec.)
10-03-2019 04:52 PM
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RE: Alabama #1, SMU ranked for first time since Death Penalty
(10-03-2019 04:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-03-2019 09:40 AM)cubucks Wrote:  And I'm not trying to degrade the SEC at all. Great schools and great football programs.

Would Wisconsin only have 15 losses if they played in the Big 10 East? Doubt it.

L.S.U. and Auburn play in the SEC West.

Penn State and Michigan have the same problem in the Big 10 and Iowa and Wisconsin do not.

On the flip side Georgia would have more losses as well if they had played in the SEC West.

For instance Auburn annually plays Georgia, L.S.U. and Alabama, and has played Clemson in 3 of those years as well. So just making the list is an accomplishment that several of those above them might not have attained if playing in their respective conference's strongest division.

These are never apples to apples discussions, and are very much like arguing how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin.

I count as elite those programs who have played for or won a national championship within the last 10 years. And the super elite are those who have done it multiple times.

And I see that as more relevant than most forms of argument over the issue because it is malleable.. Teams can move out of elite status and teams can move in and when you are discussing the current reality a decade is long enough to set or lose a trend.
I agree and all great points. I just have a hard time believing Penn State, Iowa and Wisconsin are not on the same level as LSU, Auburn and even currently Georgia. As pointed out in a previous post, Georgia is on the verge of Elite status in this era, but for me, elite is going to have to come with a National title in the CFP.

I don't know why I didn't post the Penn State numbers earlier.

Penn State- 45-17 73%, 2-3 bowl games
1 cc 0 nc

This thread took a wrong turn, I'm partially to blame, from what my original point was a long time ago.
10-03-2019 05:10 PM
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