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I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
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Post: #41
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
(09-28-2019 08:58 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  New model pay revenue making athletes money.
Most football players will make money.
Golf almost every women's program players pay for their scholarship.
Pretty unfair for a school to cover all the cost of a track athlete or most baseball players.
A few hockey programs even less baseball the rest they can pay to attend school.
All the fans at the cross country meet can start paying for the coaching and travel cost.

I see it the opposite way. Those sports really mostly have students who are also athletes. Many of the football and basketball players would never be admitted if they weren't football or basketball players.
09-29-2019 04:18 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
(09-28-2019 12:33 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  You know I look at college football. A program like Texas A&M who hasn't accomplished anything in years. However, they still can put 90,000 people in seats. 30,000 of those people probably buy overpriced food and beer. Many seats sell for hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Games are on national television and local radio. The team/school sells merchandise. Local businesses donate and advertise as the team brings them business.

Then I look at the NFL. The largest NFL stadiums are only about 82k. The majority seats around 69k at capacity. NFL games are arguably less available than college games done on Saturday. And merchandise/food sales are comparable to college.

Difference?

Tua right now is worth....a scholarships to by college standards, a very affordable school. In a few weeks he is worth Millions of dollars a year.

Why?

Schools and head coaches are getting rich while these kids get nothing but a scholarships. And before anyone says "they get an education" so does everyone else...but thosands-millions of get loans, grants, and scholarships. And can still work if they want to. They can sell their likeliness. People can give them money.

So why is this double standard for athletes so supported? The schools profit of them and keep the profit.

Yes, the financial calculus dictates that there is enough money to pay players in CFB. To me though, this argument is being advanced because colleges are the best place to get the revenue due to the allegiance to sidewalk fans. If the XFL succeeds then much like the G-League, an alternate path to the pros that does offer financial compensation will exist. But the money, accommodations and accolades will pale in comparison to CFB.
09-29-2019 04:39 PM
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Post: #43
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
(09-29-2019 04:39 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(09-28-2019 12:33 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  You know I look at college football. A program like Texas A&M who hasn't accomplished anything in years. However, they still can put 90,000 people in seats. 30,000 of those people probably buy overpriced food and beer. Many seats sell for hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Games are on national television and local radio. The team/school sells merchandise. Local businesses donate and advertise as the team brings them business.

Then I look at the NFL. The largest NFL stadiums are only about 82k. The majority seats around 69k at capacity. NFL games are arguably less available than college games done on Saturday. And merchandise/food sales are comparable to college.

Difference?

Tua right now is worth....a scholarships to by college standards, a very affordable school. In a few weeks he is worth Millions of dollars a year.

Why?

Schools and head coaches are getting rich while these kids get nothing but a scholarships. And before anyone says "they get an education" so does everyone else...but thosands-millions of get loans, grants, and scholarships. And can still work if they want to. They can sell their likeliness. People can give them money.

So why is this double standard for athletes so supported? The schools profit of them and keep the profit.

Yes, the financial calculus dictates that there is enough money to pay players in CFB. To me though, this argument is being advanced because colleges are the best place to get the revenue due to the allegiance to sidewalk fans. If the XFL succeeds then much like the G-League, an alternate path to the pros that does offer financial compensation will exist. But the money, accommodations and accolades will pale in comparison to CFB.

The only reason people are pointing to players not getting paid is because of the CBAs of the NFL and NBA

If you are in high school and have the potential to be a professional in baseball, hockey, soccer, tennis, golf, skiing, etc you don't have to go to college unless you think strategically you can improve your earnings by playing in college.

But for those two leagues your answer to the person demanding the player be played is if he desires payment beyond an education, housing, meals, books, clothes, and some spending cash then he needs to go pursue a professional career because they are bright enough to make a choice as to whether they like the deal or not.

That's not the case right now though the NBA seems to be shifting.
09-29-2019 07:30 PM
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Post: #44
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
Chris Ash was 8-32 and leaves with an $8M check due to him. His OC will get $900K.

Those numbers are why many believe that the money to pay the labor is clearly there.
09-29-2019 07:40 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
(09-29-2019 07:30 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The only reason people are pointing to players not getting paid is because of the CBAs of the NFL and NBA

If you are in high school and have the potential to be a professional in baseball, hockey, soccer, tennis, golf, skiing, etc you don't have to go to college unless you think strategically you can improve your earnings by playing in college.

But for those two leagues your answer to the person demanding the player be played is if he desires payment beyond an education, housing, meals, books, clothes, and some spending cash then he needs to go pursue a professional career because they are bright enough to make a choice as to whether they like the deal or not.

That's not the case right now though the NBA seems to be shifting.

While I agree in principal I don't think the argument goes away even with the creation of a minor league. If you examine the NBA situation you have ask yourself which is better; getting on a G-League in ABQ or living it up on campus at Kansas?

I just think a similar situation will exist for football.
09-29-2019 07:50 PM
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Post: #46
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
Chris Ash was 8-32 and leaves with an $8M check due to him. His OC will get $900K.

Those numbers are why many believe that the money to pay the labor is clearly there.
09-29-2019 08:14 PM
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Post: #47
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
Lets not forget that these bills would create boosters and all that to exploit the players. We already have the shoe scandal that many of the top teams got good players and mainly named Louisville. Paying players and that California bill would make this shoe scandal on steroids.
09-29-2019 10:50 PM
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Post: #48
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
The fairest way I can think of to pay players is to allocate a profit-sharing percentage, say 15- 20%, of overall profits to a players trust fund for those sports that generate net profits after expenses to the Schools, NCAA and Conferences. Football and basketball would earn the lion's share of the player profit annual payout, as those two sports generate the most TV profits. Sports like NCAA baseball, hockey, wrestling and lacrosse that generate more NCAA tourney profit than they cost to produce would get less total money than football or hoops, but would split a percentage of the NCAA profits they generated. Sports that don't generate more profit than than their NCAA tourney costs to produce (that's most other NCAA sports) would not receive a payout. Then divide the sport-specific payout by the number of student athletes who who stay in school at least two years, and pay them their profit-sharing fee after sophomore, junior or senior years, based on how much those players actually played over the course of that season. (minutes played, innings played, matches completed, etc.)
(This post was last modified: 09-29-2019 11:26 PM by puck swami.)
09-29-2019 11:26 PM
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Post: #49
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
I think baseball and hockey makes more than wrestling and lacrosse. It should be tiers on which sports could make money.
09-30-2019 12:04 AM
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Post: #50
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
(09-29-2019 07:30 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-29-2019 04:39 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(09-28-2019 12:33 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  You know I look at college football. A program like Texas A&M who hasn't accomplished anything in years. However, they still can put 90,000 people in seats. 30,000 of those people probably buy overpriced food and beer. Many seats sell for hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Games are on national television and local radio. The team/school sells merchandise. Local businesses donate and advertise as the team brings them business.

Then I look at the NFL. The largest NFL stadiums are only about 82k. The majority seats around 69k at capacity. NFL games are arguably less available than college games done on Saturday. And merchandise/food sales are comparable to college.

Difference?

Tua right now is worth....a scholarships to by college standards, a very affordable school. In a few weeks he is worth Millions of dollars a year.

Why?

Schools and head coaches are getting rich while these kids get nothing but a scholarships. And before anyone says "they get an education" so does everyone else...but thosands-millions of get loans, grants, and scholarships. And can still work if they want to. They can sell their likeliness. People can give them money.

So why is this double standard for athletes so supported? The schools profit of them and keep the profit.

Yes, the financial calculus dictates that there is enough money to pay players in CFB. To me though, this argument is being advanced because colleges are the best place to get the revenue due to the allegiance to sidewalk fans. If the XFL succeeds then much like the G-League, an alternate path to the pros that does offer financial compensation will exist. But the money, accommodations and accolades will pale in comparison to CFB.

The only reason people are pointing to players not getting paid is because of the CBAs of the NFL and NBA

If you are in high school and have the potential to be a professional in baseball, hockey, soccer, tennis, golf, skiing, etc you don't have to go to college unless you think strategically you can improve your earnings by playing in college.

But for those two leagues your answer to the person demanding the player be played is if he desires payment beyond an education, housing, meals, books, clothes, and some spending cash then he needs to go pursue a professional career because they are bright enough to make a choice as to whether they like the deal or not.

That's not the case right now though the NBA seems to be shifting.

When they discuss "free" markets, they should be looking at not just the NFL and NBA---but also semi-pro leagues and minor leagues. Only a tiny percentage of all college players will ever play pro sports at the highest level. Semi-pro and minor are a legitimate option for those that dont want to play college sports. The fact it pays poorly and is not very attractive should tell you that the market value for the vast majority of these players is not really all that high. Again, Im not totally opposed to some sort of revenue sharing for the players---but if its done--I'd prefer a system that pays ALL the players and runs the player payments through the NCAA so the sport can at least have some control over how the process impacts the future of the sport.
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2019 11:13 AM by Attackcoog.)
09-30-2019 11:09 AM
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Post: #51
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
I don't think it is necessary to pay players, especially now that there is a stipend. The cost/value of a full athletic scholarship at a state university is around $35k(before stipend). You would have to earn $50k+ to net $35k. So aren't these kids being compensated $50k for 20 hours per week (per ncaa practice restriction rules). That is more an 18 year-old would earn in the regular job market.
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2019 03:09 PM by blazer-J.)
09-30-2019 03:09 PM
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Post: #52
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
There's definitely a market out there for paying players because it's already happening.
09-30-2019 03:19 PM
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Post: #53
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
(09-28-2019 04:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  To me, this is one of those issues that exposes the naked hypocrisy of G5 fans. Because the same G5 fans who never tire of railing about how the P5 "cartel" holds them down support the NCAA cartel that holds player incomes down, because they fear that if players can be paid, their dream of reaching parity with the established power schools that can afford to pay more will be pushed further out of reach.

It's pretty shameless, IMO. 07-coffee3

But the cartel schools ARE paying their players and hold the leash of the NCAA so they don’t see any real consequences when/if they’re caught. We’re hypocritical for wanting schools to play by the rules they make? To want an actual amateur sports model? The P5 have much more to lose by paying players legally because it would make them iron out all the details of the system they’re currently using and are perfectly happy to leave as the seedy underbelly of their world.

As others have said you need to find a way to stop the NBA and NFL from using college as their development league. Let high school kids enter the drafts and give the NCAA the teeth to enforce harsh punishments on cheaters. Not paying players is the least of the evils that have cropped up around the money in college athletics in recent years.
09-30-2019 09:42 PM
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chester Offline
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Post: #54
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
(09-30-2019 09:42 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(09-28-2019 04:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  To me, this is one of those issues that exposes the naked hypocrisy of G5 fans. Because the same G5 fans who never tire of railing about how the P5 "cartel" holds them down support the NCAA cartel that holds player incomes down, because they fear that if players can be paid, their dream of reaching parity with the established power schools that can afford to pay more will be pushed further out of reach.

It's pretty shameless, IMO. 07-coffee3

But the cartel schools ARE paying their players and hold the leash of the NCAA so they don’t see any real consequences when/if they’re caught. We’re hypocritical for wanting schools to play by the rules they make? To want an actual amateur sports model? The P5 have much more to lose by paying players legally because it would make them iron out all the details of the system they’re currently using and are perfectly happy to leave as the seedy underbelly of their world.

As others have said you need to find a way to stop the NBA and NFL from using college as their development league. Let high school kids enter the drafts and give the NCAA the teeth to enforce harsh punishments on cheaters. Not paying players is the least of the evils that have cropped up around the money in college athletics in recent years.

A congressional bill (that's going nowhere) would do that:

Quote:SEC. 21. COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS IN PROFESSIONAL SPORTS.

A collective bargaining agreement between a professional sports league and a professional players’ association entered into after the date of the enactment of this Act shall allow adults [18 or over] to enter the collective bargaining agreement at the same level as other adults with the same experience level in such professional sports league.

H.R.2036 - NCAA Act of 2019

IMO, college football and basketball will always be the development leagues for the PRO-pros. (Big Time college athletics has been professionalized for, what, like a century? Ain't no "amateurism" about it.) Is it weird? Yeah, I guess. But in America, that's just the way it is. All these built-in arenas and stadiums...the millions of college fans... Can't imagine that it won't always be this way. Why not just embrace it for what it is and let valuable college athletes have what they're worth?
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2019 10:33 PM by chester.)
09-30-2019 10:32 PM
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Post: #55
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
(09-30-2019 10:32 PM)chester Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 09:42 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(09-28-2019 04:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  To me, this is one of those issues that exposes the naked hypocrisy of G5 fans. Because the same G5 fans who never tire of railing about how the P5 "cartel" holds them down support the NCAA cartel that holds player incomes down, because they fear that if players can be paid, their dream of reaching parity with the established power schools that can afford to pay more will be pushed further out of reach.

It's pretty shameless, IMO. 07-coffee3

But the cartel schools ARE paying their players and hold the leash of the NCAA so they don’t see any real consequences when/if they’re caught. We’re hypocritical for wanting schools to play by the rules they make? To want an actual amateur sports model? The P5 have much more to lose by paying players legally because it would make them iron out all the details of the system they’re currently using and are perfectly happy to leave as the seedy underbelly of their world.

As others have said you need to find a way to stop the NBA and NFL from using college as their development league. Let high school kids enter the drafts and give the NCAA the teeth to enforce harsh punishments on cheaters. Not paying players is the least of the evils that have cropped up around the money in college athletics in recent years.

A congressional bill (that's going nowhere) would do that:

Quote:SEC. 21. COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS IN PROFESSIONAL SPORTS.

A collective bargaining agreement between a professional sports league and a professional players’ association entered into after the date of the enactment of this Act shall allow adults [18 or over] to enter the collective bargaining agreement at the same level as other adults with the same experience level in such professional sports league.

H.R.2036 - NCAA Act of 2019

IMO, college football and basketball will always be the development leagues for the PRO-pros. (Big Time college athletics has been professionalized for, what, like a century? Ain't no "amateurism" about it.) Is it weird? Yeah, I guess. But in America, that's just the way it is. All these built-in arenas and stadiums...the millions of college fans... Can't imagine that it won't always be this way. Why not just embrace it for what it is and let valuable college athletes have what they're worth?

If they’re worth that then let them earn that but not playing sports for State Universities. The rest can choose a free education and continue playing at the college level or go to a development league and try to make thier way up to the bigs.

There’s plenty of amateurism in college sports. Just not at the top of those two sports. Do you think Zion would have taken the quarter million or whatever he was paid by Duke over signing a multimillion dollar contract with an NBA franchise? No. He was forced to. Who does that serve? Not Zion and not ODU. If any of our players are paid beyond their scholarship and stipend then they’re overpaid. Why feed the corrupt system?

The NCAA saying California will have an unfair recruiting advantage is hilarious. Not untrue, just funny in the hypocrisy
09-30-2019 11:05 PM
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Post: #56
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
I forgot there was a case with Jeremy Bloom Vs the NCAA. Can't remember the year, but he was ruled ineligible by the NCAA because he accepted endorsements for Olympics for skiing. The courts ruled against Jeremy Bloom saying he knew the rules and he violated it. Bloom wanted to play football at Colorado. The courts would be on the NCAA's side against the California and other laws in other states.
09-30-2019 11:10 PM
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chester Offline
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Post: #57
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
(09-30-2019 11:05 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 10:32 PM)chester Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 09:42 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(09-28-2019 04:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  To me, this is one of those issues that exposes the naked hypocrisy of G5 fans. Because the same G5 fans who never tire of railing about how the P5 "cartel" holds them down support the NCAA cartel that holds player incomes down, because they fear that if players can be paid, their dream of reaching parity with the established power schools that can afford to pay more will be pushed further out of reach.

It's pretty shameless, IMO. 07-coffee3

But the cartel schools ARE paying their players and hold the leash of the NCAA so they don’t see any real consequences when/if they’re caught. We’re hypocritical for wanting schools to play by the rules they make? To want an actual amateur sports model? The P5 have much more to lose by paying players legally because it would make them iron out all the details of the system they’re currently using and are perfectly happy to leave as the seedy underbelly of their world.

As others have said you need to find a way to stop the NBA and NFL from using college as their development league. Let high school kids enter the drafts and give the NCAA the teeth to enforce harsh punishments on cheaters. Not paying players is the least of the evils that have cropped up around the money in college athletics in recent years.

A congressional bill (that's going nowhere) would do that:

Quote:SEC. 21. COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS IN PROFESSIONAL SPORTS.

A collective bargaining agreement between a professional sports league and a professional players’ association entered into after the date of the enactment of this Act shall allow adults [18 or over] to enter the collective bargaining agreement at the same level as other adults with the same experience level in such professional sports league.

H.R.2036 - NCAA Act of 2019

IMO, college football and basketball will always be the development leagues for the PRO-pros. (Big Time college athletics has been professionalized for, what, like a century? Ain't no "amateurism" about it.) Is it weird? Yeah, I guess. But in America, that's just the way it is. All these built-in arenas and stadiums...the millions of college fans... Can't imagine that it won't always be this way. Why not just embrace it for what it is and let valuable college athletes have what they're worth?

If they’re worth that then let them earn that but not playing sports for State Universities. The rest can choose a free education and continue playing at the college level or go to a development league and try to make thier way up to the bigs.

There’s plenty of amateurism in college sports. Just not at the top of those two sports. Do you think Zion would have taken the quarter million or whatever he was paid by Duke over signing a multimillion dollar contract with an NBA franchise? No. He was forced to. Who does that serve? Not Zion and not ODU. If any of our players are paid beyond their scholarship and stipend then they’re overpaid. Why feed the corrupt system?

The NCAA saying California will have an unfair recruiting advantage is hilarious. Not untrue, just funny in the hypocrisy

IMO, there's nothing "corrupt" about paying someone whatever a free market would bring them, doesn't matter to me if they're college athletes or something else. What's corrupt is NOT paying them what they're worth. I have yet to hear anyone, anywhere, give a convincing reason why college athletes, specifically, should not be paid what they are worth if they are, in fact, worth more than their scholarship and COA stipend. Exactly what is it about college athletes that makes them different than everyone else. Why should they be treated so?

BTW, an eight year-old study by the National College Players Association and Drexel Uni found that, if D1 basketball operated as the NBA does, each individual Duke basketball player would have been worth $987k in 2011-12.
(This post was last modified: 10-01-2019 12:30 AM by chester.)
10-01-2019 12:28 AM
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chester Offline
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Post: #58
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
(09-30-2019 11:10 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I forgot there was a case with Jeremy Bloom Vs the NCAA. Can't remember the year, but he was ruled ineligible by the NCAA because he accepted endorsements for Olympics for skiing. The courts ruled against Jeremy Bloom saying he knew the rules and he violated it. Bloom wanted to play football at Colorado. The courts would be on the NCAA's side against the California and other laws in other states.

Yeah, he was interviewed for this report on Colorado's upcoming NIL bill: LINK
10-01-2019 12:34 AM
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Post: #59
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
(10-01-2019 12:28 AM)chester Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 11:05 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 10:32 PM)chester Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 09:42 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(09-28-2019 04:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  To me, this is one of those issues that exposes the naked hypocrisy of G5 fans. Because the same G5 fans who never tire of railing about how the P5 "cartel" holds them down support the NCAA cartel that holds player incomes down, because they fear that if players can be paid, their dream of reaching parity with the established power schools that can afford to pay more will be pushed further out of reach.

It's pretty shameless, IMO. 07-coffee3

But the cartel schools ARE paying their players and hold the leash of the NCAA so they don’t see any real consequences when/if they’re caught. We’re hypocritical for wanting schools to play by the rules they make? To want an actual amateur sports model? The P5 have much more to lose by paying players legally because it would make them iron out all the details of the system they’re currently using and are perfectly happy to leave as the seedy underbelly of their world.

As others have said you need to find a way to stop the NBA and NFL from using college as their development league. Let high school kids enter the drafts and give the NCAA the teeth to enforce harsh punishments on cheaters. Not paying players is the least of the evils that have cropped up around the money in college athletics in recent years.

A congressional bill (that's going nowhere) would do that:

Quote:SEC. 21. COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS IN PROFESSIONAL SPORTS.

A collective bargaining agreement between a professional sports league and a professional players’ association entered into after the date of the enactment of this Act shall allow adults [18 or over] to enter the collective bargaining agreement at the same level as other adults with the same experience level in such professional sports league.

H.R.2036 - NCAA Act of 2019

IMO, college football and basketball will always be the development leagues for the PRO-pros. (Big Time college athletics has been professionalized for, what, like a century? Ain't no "amateurism" about it.) Is it weird? Yeah, I guess. But in America, that's just the way it is. All these built-in arenas and stadiums...the millions of college fans... Can't imagine that it won't always be this way. Why not just embrace it for what it is and let valuable college athletes have what they're worth?

If they’re worth that then let them earn that but not playing sports for State Universities. The rest can choose a free education and continue playing at the college level or go to a development league and try to make thier way up to the bigs.

There’s plenty of amateurism in college sports. Just not at the top of those two sports. Do you think Zion would have taken the quarter million or whatever he was paid by Duke over signing a multimillion dollar contract with an NBA franchise? No. He was forced to. Who does that serve? Not Zion and not ODU. If any of our players are paid beyond their scholarship and stipend then they’re overpaid. Why feed the corrupt system?

The NCAA saying California will have an unfair recruiting advantage is hilarious. Not untrue, just funny in the hypocrisy

IMO, there's nothing "corrupt" about paying someone whatever a free market would bring them, doesn't matter to me if they're college athletes or something else. What's corrupt is NOT paying them what they're worth. I have yet to hear anyone, anywhere, give a convincing reason why college athletes, specifically, should not be paid what they are worth if they are, in fact, worth more than their scholarship and COA stipend. Exactly what is it about college athletes that makes them different than everyone else. Why should they be treated so?

BTW, an eight year-old study by the National College Players Association and Drexel Uni found that, if D1 basketball operated as the NBA does, each individual Duke basketball player would have been worth $987k in 2011-12.

You bring up an excellent point. So, let me ask you a similar question. If colleges want to form amateur leagues where compensation outside of a scholarship and FCOA is prohibited---why cant they? No student athlete is being forced to play for any school that I am aware of. The association is completely voluntary and they can quit the team or transfer at any time. The colleges never got into athletics to make money. They are institutions of higher learning--not sports franchises. Thats why D1 athletes get scholarships and must actually attend school at the university they play for. So---if institutions of higher learning want a student athlete amateur league--why cant they have one?

On the other hand---if the kids feel under compensated---they should go pro. There are minor leagues and semi-pro football leagues all over the country (all over the world in fact). If they are good enough to demand really big money at that age---then their gripe should be with the NBA and NFL (and the players association)--who bar them from playing in their leagues right out of high school. Interestingly, MLB lets kids play right out of HS--and many who are drafted opt to play college ball over being a paid professional at the minor league level (especially those not drafted in the early rounds). So, Im a bit skeptical that the average college athlete is worth $987,0000 a year. A typical state tuition, room, and board costs runs 25-40K a year. There are lots of folks in the US working full time that make less than $40K a year. So, its not like they are working for free.

That said---Im sympathetic toward the players who's primary needs are all covered, but are often left with little spending money, despite working their tails off for the school. So, I do see a need for some sort of revenue sharing for the players---but I dont think the olympic model, which would effectively put the boosters in charge of recruiting and player compensation is the way to go.
(This post was last modified: 10-01-2019 02:32 AM by Attackcoog.)
10-01-2019 02:06 AM
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chester Offline
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Post: #60
RE: I don't buy that we can't afford to pay players.
(10-01-2019 02:06 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(10-01-2019 12:28 AM)chester Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 11:05 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 10:32 PM)chester Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 09:42 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  But the cartel schools ARE paying their players and hold the leash of the NCAA so they don’t see any real consequences when/if they’re caught. We’re hypocritical for wanting schools to play by the rules they make? To want an actual amateur sports model? The P5 have much more to lose by paying players legally because it would make them iron out all the details of the system they’re currently using and are perfectly happy to leave as the seedy underbelly of their world.

As others have said you need to find a way to stop the NBA and NFL from using college as their development league. Let high school kids enter the drafts and give the NCAA the teeth to enforce harsh punishments on cheaters. Not paying players is the least of the evils that have cropped up around the money in college athletics in recent years.

A congressional bill (that's going nowhere) would do that:

Quote:SEC. 21. COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS IN PROFESSIONAL SPORTS.

A collective bargaining agreement between a professional sports league and a professional players’ association entered into after the date of the enactment of this Act shall allow adults [18 or over] to enter the collective bargaining agreement at the same level as other adults with the same experience level in such professional sports league.

H.R.2036 - NCAA Act of 2019

IMO, college football and basketball will always be the development leagues for the PRO-pros. (Big Time college athletics has been professionalized for, what, like a century? Ain't no "amateurism" about it.) Is it weird? Yeah, I guess. But in America, that's just the way it is. All these built-in arenas and stadiums...the millions of college fans... Can't imagine that it won't always be this way. Why not just embrace it for what it is and let valuable college athletes have what they're worth?

If they’re worth that then let them earn that but not playing sports for State Universities. The rest can choose a free education and continue playing at the college level or go to a development league and try to make thier way up to the bigs.

There’s plenty of amateurism in college sports. Just not at the top of those two sports. Do you think Zion would have taken the quarter million or whatever he was paid by Duke over signing a multimillion dollar contract with an NBA franchise? No. He was forced to. Who does that serve? Not Zion and not ODU. If any of our players are paid beyond their scholarship and stipend then they’re overpaid. Why feed the corrupt system?

The NCAA saying California will have an unfair recruiting advantage is hilarious. Not untrue, just funny in the hypocrisy

IMO, there's nothing "corrupt" about paying someone whatever a free market would bring them, doesn't matter to me if they're college athletes or something else. What's corrupt is NOT paying them what they're worth. I have yet to hear anyone, anywhere, give a convincing reason why college athletes, specifically, should not be paid what they are worth if they are, in fact, worth more than their scholarship and COA stipend. Exactly what is it about college athletes that makes them different than everyone else. Why should they be treated so?

BTW, an eight year-old study by the National College Players Association and Drexel Uni found that, if D1 basketball operated as the NBA does, each individual Duke basketball player would have been worth $987k in 2011-12.

You bring up an excellent point. So, let me ask you a similar question. If colleges want to form amateur leagues where compensation outside of a scholarship and FCOA is prohibited---why cant they? No student athlete is being forced to play for any school that I am aware of. The association is completely voluntary and they can quit the team or transfer at any time. The colleges never got into athletics to make money. They are institutions of higher learning--not sports franchises. Thats why D1 athletes get scholarships and must actually attend school at the university they play for. So---if institutions of higher learning want a student athlete amateur league--why cant they have one?

That isn't amateurism, though. It's a form a subsidized athletics (professionalized athletics) in which compensation (pay) is artificially capped and labor has to spend most all its money at the company store, so to speak. And I'll remind you that the Cartel was initially against COA stipends (which it now seems so many schools can easily afford. Surprise!)

19th century colleges might not have gotten into sports to make money, but schools certainly do today. Why do lower division schools ever look to move up?


On the other hand---if the kids feel under compensated---they should go pro. There are minor leagues and semi-pro football leagues all over the country (all over the world in fact). If they are good enough to demand really big money at that age---then their gripe should be with the NBA and NFL (and the players association)--who bar them from playing in their leagues right out of high school.

I don't deny there are other options available or that the NFL and NBA ought not bar high schoolers. But, see, to me, that is beside the point. The fact remains, the NCAA's model economically exploits people. I'll ask this question again, what makes college athletes so different than people in other walks of life, in that they ought not receive their full market value? Right is right and wrong is wrong and the NCAA model is, IMO, terribly wrong.

EDIT: If anyone's curious as to what actual, REAL amateur college athletics would look like, here's an example:

A group of students approaches a school official. One of them has some sort of ball in his or her hands. One of the students says, "Excuse me, we've no classes today and are looking for a place to play with this ball."

The official points to an empty field or lot and says "Have at it."
(This post was last modified: 10-01-2019 03:23 AM by chester.)
10-01-2019 02:46 AM
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