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Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-28-2019 06:07 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  Arguing about which of the two is better is pointless without facts. ...

In the context of this question, arguing about which of the two is better in general is pointless with or without facts ... because whichever of the two you want to consider as being marginally ahead of the other, being in the CUSA East is better for Marshall than being in the Sunbelt.

Indeed, that may be why the discussion of the original question has died down and it has been entirely replaced by the pointless argument over which of the two is better.
(This post was last modified: 10-01-2019 08:13 PM by BruceMcF.)
10-01-2019 08:12 PM
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Post: #102
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(10-01-2019 08:12 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(09-28-2019 06:07 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  Arguing about which of the two is better is pointless without facts. ...

In the context of this question, arguing about which of the two is better in general is pointless with or without facts ... because whichever of the two you want to consider as being marginally ahead of the other, being in the CUSA East is better for Marshall than being in the Sunbelt.

Indeed, that may be why the discussion of the original question has died down and it has been entirely replaced by the pointless argument over which of the two is better.

As I said early on. It makes little sense for Marshall. It might make sense for USM geographically but it would be a hard sell to thier fans who feel they should be in the AAC with their former conference mates.
10-01-2019 10:53 PM
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PicksUp Offline
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Post: #103
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(10-01-2019 10:53 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(10-01-2019 08:12 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(09-28-2019 06:07 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  Arguing about which of the two is better is pointless without facts. ...

In the context of this question, arguing about which of the two is better in general is pointless with or without facts ... because whichever of the two you want to consider as being marginally ahead of the other, being in the CUSA East is better for Marshall than being in the Sunbelt.

Indeed, that may be why the discussion of the original question has died down and it has been entirely replaced by the pointless argument over which of the two is better.

As I said early on. It makes little sense for Marshall. It might make sense for USM geographically but it would be a hard sell to thier fans who feel they should be in the AAC with their former conference mates.

As a UTEP fan I believe we belong in the MWC. I’m not sure if a realignment with the westernmost schools would be enough to keep UTEP fans from longing for the MW. Probably not.
10-01-2019 11:03 PM
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mturn017 Online
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Post: #104
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(10-01-2019 11:03 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  
(10-01-2019 10:53 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(10-01-2019 08:12 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(09-28-2019 06:07 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  Arguing about which of the two is better is pointless without facts. ...

In the context of this question, arguing about which of the two is better in general is pointless with or without facts ... because whichever of the two you want to consider as being marginally ahead of the other, being in the CUSA East is better for Marshall than being in the Sunbelt.

Indeed, that may be why the discussion of the original question has died down and it has been entirely replaced by the pointless argument over which of the two is better.

As I said early on. It makes little sense for Marshall. It might make sense for USM geographically but it would be a hard sell to thier fans who feel they should be in the AAC with their former conference mates.

As a UTEP fan I believe we belong in the MWC. I’m not sure if a realignment with the westernmost schools would be enough to keep UTEP fans from longing for the MW. Probably not.

Makes sense.
10-02-2019 07:56 AM
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GreenBison Offline
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Post: #105
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(10-01-2019 10:53 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(10-01-2019 08:12 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(09-28-2019 06:07 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  Arguing about which of the two is better is pointless without facts. ...

In the context of this question, arguing about which of the two is better in general is pointless with or without facts ... because whichever of the two you want to consider as being marginally ahead of the other, being in the CUSA East is better for Marshall than being in the Sunbelt.

Indeed, that may be why the discussion of the original question has died down and it has been entirely replaced by the pointless argument over which of the two is better.

As I said early on. It makes little sense for Marshall. It might make sense for USM geographically but it would be a hard sell to thier fans who feel they should be in the AAC with their former conference mates.

Partly true, but we also have a long history with Appy State and Georgia Southern, so there might be some people leaning towards the SBC.
10-02-2019 12:12 PM
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Post: #106
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(10-01-2019 01:27 PM)CAJUNNATION Wrote:  
(09-29-2019 02:34 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Absolutely nothing that would make someone spend $2 million to withdraw from their current league and pay an entry fee to join the other.

If there is no conference left after a mass exodus, to whom do we make those exit fee payments?

Write the check to yourself
10-02-2019 03:46 PM
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USM@FTL Offline
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Post: #107
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
Combine the 2 into 4 agreeable divisions. HOWEVER, you must get approval for a 4-team playoff before it's worth doing.

It's the 6-team divisions that matters most. The scheduling flexibility it allows and the fact that you've tightened geographically.

Marshall
WKU
MTSU
ODU
Charlotte
Appa State

Coastal Carolina - possibly switch with Appa State, but permanent rivals in other divisions would be possible, aka Appa State/Georgia Southern rivalry.
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
South Alabama
Troy
Ark State

FIU
FAU
UAB - separate from Troy and USA.
USM
La Tech
ULaLa

ULaMo - separate from La Tech
Rice
UNT
UTSA
UTEP
Texas State

Do that, and you generate some excitement, something C-USA needs. Consolidate and renegotiate everything.
10-02-2019 08:35 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #108
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(10-02-2019 08:35 PM)USM@FTL Wrote:  Combine the 2 into 4 agreeable divisions. HOWEVER, you must get approval for a 4-team playoff before it's worth doing.

It's the 6-team divisions that matters most. The scheduling flexibility it allows and the fact that you've tightened geographically.

Marshall
WKU
MTSU
ODU
Charlotte
Appa State

Coastal Carolina - possibly switch with Appa State, but permanent rivals in other divisions would be possible, aka Appa State/Georgia Southern rivalry.

Upside, adds App. State, which I'm guessing Marshall would like, downside, lose the Florida games, which they would not.

If there is a locked cross-division rivalry, Marshall might be better served by App State and Charlotte in the division with Georgia Southern and the FU's in their division, with a locked cross division game with App State.
10-02-2019 10:03 PM
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Post: #109
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
Well, I'm late to this thread but the better question would be: why doesn't CUSA drop some teams and raid the Sun Belt?

Also, I might add that CUSA has a much better linear-TV deal in 2019 than they did in year's past, at least from USM's perspective. USM has FIVE Saturday linear TV games this year, 3 of those being conference games. I can't even remember the last time we had 3 SATURDAY CONFERENCE games on a channel that most people have (NFL Network).

IMO the ideal situation for USM would be for CUSA to drop some teams and add some SBC teams. I'd love to see something like this (14 Teams - West/East Divisions):

West
North Texas
La Tech
Rice
ULL
Troy
Southern Miss
UAB

East
Ark State
MTSU
WKU
Marshall
App State
FAU
FIU
(This post was last modified: 10-03-2019 11:48 AM by TTT.)
10-03-2019 11:43 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #110
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(10-01-2019 11:03 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  
(10-01-2019 10:53 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(10-01-2019 08:12 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(09-28-2019 06:07 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  Arguing about which of the two is better is pointless without facts. ...

In the context of this question, arguing about which of the two is better in general is pointless with or without facts ... because whichever of the two you want to consider as being marginally ahead of the other, being in the CUSA East is better for Marshall than being in the Sunbelt.

Indeed, that may be why the discussion of the original question has died down and it has been entirely replaced by the pointless argument over which of the two is better.

As I said early on. It makes little sense for Marshall. It might make sense for USM geographically but it would be a hard sell to thier fans who feel they should be in the AAC with their former conference mates.

As a UTEP fan I believe we belong in the MWC. I’m not sure if a realignment with the westernmost schools would be enough to keep UTEP fans from longing for the MW. Probably not.

Here's a question: is "UTEP" pronounced like a word (yootep) or is each letter pronounced?
10-03-2019 01:44 PM
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Inkblot Offline
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Post: #111
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(10-03-2019 01:44 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Here's a question: is "UTEP" pronounced like a word (yootep) or is each letter pronounced?

I've never heard it any way other than "Yootep".
10-03-2019 02:27 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #112
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
Why not put the top half of all G5s (~64) into 1 conference with 8 divisions?? 03-wink
10-03-2019 02:54 PM
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USM@FTL Offline
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Post: #113
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
TTT, you can't just 'drop' teams. You're not thinking realistically. These are universities and university presidents are involved. Kicking schools out of a conference is poison politics and it takes years.

So, you expand, set divisions, then eventually, since you've been together for x number of years, you grab 3-6 more and start a viable conference without the 5-year NCAA credit loss. Or not and stay big.

I think consolidating C-USA and the Sunbelt into compatible divisions has a lot of merit.
10-03-2019 10:11 PM
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Post: #114
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(10-03-2019 10:11 PM)USM@FTL Wrote:  TTT, you can't just 'drop' teams. You're not thinking realistically. These are universities and university presidents are involved. Kicking schools out of a conference is poison politics and it takes years.

So, you expand, set divisions, then eventually, since you've been together for x number of years, you grab 3-6 more and start a viable conference without the 5-year NCAA credit loss. Or not and stay big.

I think consolidating C-USA and the Sunbelt into compatible divisions has a lot of merit.

Don't even have to do that.

Cut back the league schedules in most sports and just sign an agreement to play X games in each sport against teams from the other league from the corresponding division.

CUSA could go from an 8 game league schedule to say 7 crossing over only once but then each CUSA West plays 2 against Sun Belt west on home and home that don't count in standings. Do similar in other league schedule sports.
10-08-2019 05:22 PM
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chrisattsu Offline
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Post: #115
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(10-01-2019 11:03 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  
(10-01-2019 10:53 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(10-01-2019 08:12 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(09-28-2019 06:07 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  Arguing about which of the two is better is pointless without facts. ...

In the context of this question, arguing about which of the two is better in general is pointless with or without facts ... because whichever of the two you want to consider as being marginally ahead of the other, being in the CUSA East is better for Marshall than being in the Sunbelt.

Indeed, that may be why the discussion of the original question has died down and it has been entirely replaced by the pointless argument over which of the two is better.

As I said early on. It makes little sense for Marshall. It might make sense for USM geographically but it would be a hard sell to thier fans who feel they should be in the AAC with their former conference mates.

As a UTEP fan I believe we belong in the MWC. I’m not sure if a realignment with the westernmost schools would be enough to keep UTEP fans from longing for the MW. Probably not.

As I understand it, the argument for staying CUSA is regular games in DFW, Houston, and Austin-San Antonio.

With the 11 other FBS schools (23 total D1 programs in the state), it seems like they could find games in those cities during their out of conference while playing sports against western peers. In addition, it presents an alternative to the other Texas G5 schools.
10-09-2019 01:00 PM
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Post: #116
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(10-09-2019 01:00 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  
(10-01-2019 11:03 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  
(10-01-2019 10:53 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(10-01-2019 08:12 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(09-28-2019 06:07 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  Arguing about which of the two is better is pointless without facts. ...

In the context of this question, arguing about which of the two is better in general is pointless with or without facts ... because whichever of the two you want to consider as being marginally ahead of the other, being in the CUSA East is better for Marshall than being in the Sunbelt.

Indeed, that may be why the discussion of the original question has died down and it has been entirely replaced by the pointless argument over which of the two is better.

As I said early on. It makes little sense for Marshall. It might make sense for USM geographically but it would be a hard sell to thier fans who feel they should be in the AAC with their former conference mates.

As a UTEP fan I believe we belong in the MWC. I’m not sure if a realignment with the westernmost schools would be enough to keep UTEP fans from longing for the MW. Probably not.

As I understand it, the argument for staying CUSA is regular games in DFW, Houston, and Austin-San Antonio.

With the 11 other FBS schools (23 total D1 programs in the state), it seems like they could find games in those cities during their out of conference while playing sports against western peers. In addition, it presents an alternative to the other Texas G5 schools.

That was the argument. Supposedly the MW was interested in adding UTEP before they added Utah St and San Jose St. I’m not sure how accurate those reports were. I believe it was before Houston, SMU and the rest left for the AAC. UTEP decided to stay and then we were left behind with a few others.
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2019 01:13 PM by PicksUp.)
10-09-2019 01:12 PM
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gulfcoastgal Offline
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Post: #117
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(10-09-2019 01:12 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  
(10-09-2019 01:00 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  
(10-01-2019 11:03 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  
(10-01-2019 10:53 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(10-01-2019 08:12 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  In the context of this question, arguing about which of the two is better in general is pointless with or without facts ... because whichever of the two you want to consider as being marginally ahead of the other, being in the CUSA East is better for Marshall than being in the Sunbelt.

Indeed, that may be why the discussion of the original question has died down and it has been entirely replaced by the pointless argument over which of the two is better.

As I said early on. It makes little sense for Marshall. It might make sense for USM geographically but it would be a hard sell to thier fans who feel they should be in the AAC with their former conference mates.

As a UTEP fan I believe we belong in the MWC. I’m not sure if a realignment with the westernmost schools would be enough to keep UTEP fans from longing for the MW. Probably not.

As I understand it, the argument for staying CUSA is regular games in DFW, Houston, and Austin-San Antonio.

With the 11 other FBS schools (23 total D1 programs in the state), it seems like they could find games in those cities during their out of conference while playing sports against western peers. In addition, it presents an alternative to the other Texas G5 schools.

That was the argument. Supposedly the MW was interested in adding UTEP before they added Utah St and San Jose St. I’m not sure how accurate those reports were. I believe it was before Houston, SMU and the rest left for the AAC. UTEP decided to stay and then we were left behind with a few others.

IIRC, and I'm not sure I do, there was UTEP to the MWC talk/rumors as part of the CUSA/MWC failed merger.
10-09-2019 04:32 PM
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Rob3338 Offline
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Post: #118
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-24-2019 08:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 02:05 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 12:16 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  CUSA basketball is much better than Sun Belt basketball. That's biggest reason I wouldn't want to do it. Also would still be associated with teams I want nothing to do with.

I wish CUSA would trade the Texas schools for App St, Ga Southern, Ga State, Troy,.......THAT is a conference that would get me excited.

In all seriousness while CUSA basketball generally is better than the Sunbelt on the whole it has not really mattered much in a while. In fact when was the last time CUSA was actually "good" in basketball? People like to talk like it is but it has been a while since I think someone could really say that was true.

Note not an individual team doing well but the conference on the whole being "good". I am leaving it vague as to what "good" means since I can see different opinions on what constitutes that.

It would be a big step down in prestige to go to the Sun Belt. Also a step down in athletic budgets. And the Sun Belt has been very up and down. A couple years ago they did no better than FCS schools did against FBS. Nobody is going to make a decision based on a couple of good years.

I also suspect Marshall and USM are also going to want to stay with FAU and FIU for recruiting reasons.

Neither conference has ANY prestige. There are only 2 conferences in the G5 that have ANY prestige and they are often marginal.
10-11-2019 01:18 AM
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Crayton Offline
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Post: #119
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(10-08-2019 05:22 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Don't even have to do that.

Cut back the league schedules in most sports and just sign an agreement to play X games in each sport against teams from the other league from the corresponding division.

CUSA could go from an 8 game league schedule to say 7 crossing over only once but then each CUSA West plays 2 against Sun Belt west on home and home that don't count in standings. Do similar in other league schedule sports.
Yep. Move to 7 or even 6 conference games and have the CUSA count only division games to determine their division champs (‘cause CUSAE-CUSAW games will make up the difference caused by conference size).
10-11-2019 10:51 AM
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Post: #120
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
I'm curious what happens to CUSA-East if let's say that the AAC does poach AFA from the MWC. Does the MWC reload with Rice? The CUSA try to reload with TxSt? What does CUSA-East feel about that situation.
10-15-2019 11:42 AM
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