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Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
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EvilVodka Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
Sun Belt is gaining steam with App State. I think App State would dominate C-USA

Nice win for Georgia State over the Vols

Who is good in C-USA? Old Dominion?
09-25-2019 02:49 PM
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Post: #62
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-24-2019 07:38 PM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 05:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  Sun Belt has been very up and down. Last 10 years ooc vs. FBS starting with 2009:
25.7%
17.7
10.8
28.6
34.2
46.9
13.5
18.0
32.5
24.4
41.2%
Try reading the post. Hard with 3 years to demonstrate how up and down SB is. Its best year was before the latest changes. So was its worst year.
why go back 10 years? the years with the current alignment is more accurate of the Sun Belts current standing among its peers.
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2019 03:43 PM by bullet.)
09-25-2019 03:43 PM
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Post: #63
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
This is turning into a shortest ***** contest at an ice cold swimming pool.

I'm sorry some CUSA folks get miffed that Sun Belt is on par with CUSA these days, it's not like it is an achievement.

Pre-title game departed teams account for 5.5 titles and current teams 3.5 (USM)
Post-title game departed teams account for 14 of 16 divisional titles and current teams 2 (USM) and departed teams represented 7 conference titles and current teams account for 1.

In hoops same time period.
Regular Season champion (best league record or top seed deemed champ)
Departed 15 Current 2
Tournament Champion
Departed 15 Current 2 (if Charlotte hadn't returned the number would be zero)

Sun Belt 2001 through 2012
Football
Departees 5.5 titles (giving partial for split titles) Current 6.5
Hoops
Regular season
Departees 8 Current 4 (note that one departee is now in the Summit and two of the regular season "titles" won by WKU came in years where they won it by a half game because SBC East played 14 games and SBC West played 15 and had tied on wins).
Tournament
Departees 8 Current 4.

One conference got beat up worse than the other in realignment
09-25-2019 03:46 PM
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PicksUp Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-25-2019 02:49 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Sun Belt is gaining steam with App State. I think App State would dominate C-USA

Nice win for Georgia State over the Vols

Who is good in C-USA? Old Dominion?

ODU hasn’t won the conference. Their best year was in 2016.

Since 2013 Marshall (67%) and Western Kentucky (62%) have the highest overall win percentage.

Who’s good this year? Couldn’t tell you. UAB looks ok. They won the conference last year.
09-25-2019 04:09 PM
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Old Blue Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-23-2019 10:13 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(09-23-2019 10:03 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Because the existing Sun Belt schools would have to split the CFP payout to their conference two more ways.

Bigger tv payout for the Sun Belt with this add. Those schools would provide for a better renogiated ESPN contract for the SB.
2 big names coming to SB
And an even tighter geoprahocal conference
2 big names joining up. These are big names with history joining.
A CCG In New Orleans
They would....why? If they were capable for a bigger conference payout they'd be in the AAC. Probably before East Carolina.
09-25-2019 04:38 PM
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balanced_view Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-25-2019 03:43 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 07:38 PM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 05:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  Sun Belt has been very up and down. Last 10 years ooc vs. FBS starting with 2009:
25.7%
17.7
10.8
28.6
34.2
46.9
13.5
18.0
32.5
24.4
41.2%
Try reading the post. Hard with 3 years to demonstrate how up and down SB is. Its best year was before the latest changes. So was its worst year.
why go back 10 years? the years with the current alignment is more accurate of the Sun Belts current standing among its peers.

if its so hard to make a point, its not a good point to make. you should not try and force it with weak stats.
09-25-2019 05:25 PM
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GreenBison Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
When I was going to Marshall we were in the Southern Conference. I loved that conference, there was a lot of passion among all of the schools. When we entered the MAC their fan support was dead. With that being said, I personally love Marshall being in a Southern based conference. We recruit the South and the majority of our Alumni Clubs and Alumni are in the South East.

Here's the conference I'd like to see..

Marshall
ECU
Southern Miss
La Tech
Appy State
Georgia Southern
Tulane
Memphis
UAB
FAU / FIU / UCF / USF (take your pick)
ODU
MTSU / WKU (take your pick)
09-26-2019 11:22 AM
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Post: #68
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-26-2019 11:22 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  When I was going to Marshall we were in the Southern Conference. I loved that conference, there was a lot of passion among all of the schools. When we entered the MAC their fan support was dead. With that being said, I personally love Marshall being in a Southern based conference. We recruit the South and the majority of our Alumni Clubs and Alumni are in the South East.

Here's the conference I'd like to see..

Marshall
ECU
Southern Miss
La Tech
Appy State
Georgia Southern
Tulane
Memphis
UAB
FAU / FIU / UCF / USF (take your pick)
ODU
MTSU / WKU (take your pick)

The take your picks stink. MTSU/WKU need to be together college has lost too many rivalries. UCF/USF and FAU/FIU ought to be pairs when making dream date conference.
09-26-2019 01:32 PM
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Post: #69
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-25-2019 03:46 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  This is turning into a shortest ***** contest at an ice cold swimming pool.

I'm sorry some CUSA folks get miffed that Sun Belt is on par with CUSA these days, it's not like it is an achievement.

Pre-title game departed teams account for 5.5 titles and current teams 3.5 (USM)
Post-title game departed teams account for 14 of 16 divisional titles and current teams 2 (USM) and departed teams represented 7 conference titles and current teams account for 1.

In hoops same time period.
Regular Season champion (best league record or top seed deemed champ)
Departed 15 Current 2
Tournament Champion
Departed 15 Current 2 (if Charlotte hadn't returned the number would be zero)

Sun Belt 2001 through 2012
Football
Departees 5.5 titles (giving partial for split titles) Current 6.5
Hoops
Regular season
Departees 8 Current 4 (note that one departee is now in the Summit and two of the regular season "titles" won by WKU came in years where they won it by a half game because SBC East played 14 games and SBC West played 15 and had tied on wins).
Tournament
Departees 8 Current 4.

One conference got beat up worse than the other in realignment

A lot of Sun Belt fans don't understand where they rank. In football strength, yes, MAC, CUSA and Sun Belt seem to be pretty much on a par. Overall, however, they are a distant 10th of the FBS conferences. Yet many seem to think they are somehow vastly superior to CUSA. And some of the posters on here (not you by any means) encourage the belief that they are T-shirt fans. They couldn't possibly have gotten a degree at a 4 year college.04-cheers
09-26-2019 03:53 PM
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RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-26-2019 03:53 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-25-2019 03:46 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  This is turning into a shortest ***** contest at an ice cold swimming pool.

I'm sorry some CUSA folks get miffed that Sun Belt is on par with CUSA these days, it's not like it is an achievement.

Pre-title game departed teams account for 5.5 titles and current teams 3.5 (USM)
Post-title game departed teams account for 14 of 16 divisional titles and current teams 2 (USM) and departed teams represented 7 conference titles and current teams account for 1.

In hoops same time period.
Regular Season champion (best league record or top seed deemed champ)
Departed 15 Current 2
Tournament Champion
Departed 15 Current 2 (if Charlotte hadn't returned the number would be zero)

Sun Belt 2001 through 2012
Football
Departees 5.5 titles (giving partial for split titles) Current 6.5
Hoops
Regular season
Departees 8 Current 4 (note that one departee is now in the Summit and two of the regular season "titles" won by WKU came in years where they won it by a half game because SBC East played 14 games and SBC West played 15 and had tied on wins).
Tournament
Departees 8 Current 4.

One conference got beat up worse than the other in realignment

A lot of Sun Belt fans don't understand where they rank. In football strength, yes, MAC, CUSA and Sun Belt seem to be pretty much on a par. Overall, however, they are a distant 10th of the FBS conferences. Yet many seem to think they are somehow vastly superior to CUSA. And some of the posters on here (not you by any means) encourage the belief that they are T-shirt fans. They couldn't possibly have gotten a degree at a 4 year college.04-cheers
Distant 10th????
I can't imagine any measure that produces the words distant 10th 03-lmfao
09-26-2019 04:22 PM
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Post: #71
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-26-2019 03:53 PM)bullet Wrote:  A lot of Sun Belt fans don't understand where they rank. In football strength, yes, MAC, CUSA and Sun Belt seem to be pretty much on a par. Overall, however, they are a distant 10th of the FBS conferences. Yet many seem to think they are somehow vastly superior to CUSA. And some of the posters on here (not you by any means) encourage the belief that they are T-shirt fans. They couldn't possibly have gotten a degree at a 4 year college.04-cheers

[Image: 8GJOnbH.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 09-26-2019 08:35 PM by debragga.)
09-26-2019 08:35 PM
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Post: #72
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
My attempt at a Sun Belt / C-USA merger division:

Gulf Conference
Rice, North Texas, UTEP, UTSA, UTA, TXST, NMSU, UALR, ARK ST, ULM, ULL, LA TECH

I think that's enough combined punch in a few major TX centered markets that you could work out a deal with ESPN vis-a-vis the Longhorn Network and the ESPN family for major coverage.


Sun Belt Conference
USM, UAB, Troy, South Alabama, GSU, GA ST, FIU, FAU, CCU, CLT, App State, ODU, Liberty, MT, WKU, Marshall

A little bigger but still manageable ... everybody has a travel partner too. Except Marshall.
09-26-2019 10:57 PM
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Post: #73
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-26-2019 10:57 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  My attempt at a Sun Belt / C-USA merger division:

Gulf Conference
Rice, North Texas, UTEP, UTSA, UTA, TXST, NMSU, UALR, ARK ST, ULM, ULL, LA TECH

I think that's enough combined punch in a few major TX centered markets that you could work out a deal with ESPN vis-a-vis the Longhorn Network and the ESPN family for major coverage.


Sun Belt Conference
USM, UAB, Troy, South Alabama, GSU, GA ST, FIU, FAU, CCU, CLT, App State, ODU, Liberty, MT, WKU, Marshall

A little bigger but still manageable ... everybody has a travel partner too. Except Marshall.

Gulf Conference is the Southland Conference Senior Edition.

Arkansas State is the realignment loser in this. We are closer to Georgia State than any of the Texas schools and Alabama and Georgia are critical recruiting areas.
09-27-2019 08:21 AM
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Post: #74
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-23-2019 10:13 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(09-23-2019 10:03 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Because the existing Sun Belt schools would have to split the CFP payout to their conference two more ways.

Bigger tv payout for the Sun Belt with this add. Those schools would provide for a better renogiated ESPN contract for the SB.
2 big names coming to SB
And an even tighter geoprahocal conference
2 big names joining up. These are big names with history joining.
A CCG In New Orleans

Yes, because everyone is dying to see Marshall and USM.

No offense, but no one cares about their history outside of message boards. USM has done some great things and produced some great players. But the glory days are long gone and there isn't much separation from the teams they used to perceive below them.

If you had to ask me UAB looks like the team with the most potential in CUSA.
09-27-2019 08:36 AM
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Post: #75
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-24-2019 11:15 AM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 08:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  It would be a big step down in prestige to go to the Sun Belt.

It's not necessarily (1) fair or (2) true as regards on-the-field results. But, yes, the Sun Belt is still considered less prestigious than the C-USA. By a decent margin.

Is it because Western Ky, FIU, FAU, North Texas and Middle Tennesse St left the Sun Belt for CUSA a few years ago, and a "pecking order" was established?

Or because CUSA averages 1,500 to 2,000 more per game in announced football attendance?

Or some other reason?

Doesn't seem a "big" step down to me. A very small step down, maybe.

Either way, if the Sun Belt has a few more years like the current season and CUSA continues to beat almost no FBS teams in the nonconference, perceptions will change . . .
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2019 09:19 AM by CougarRed.)
09-27-2019 09:18 AM
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Post: #76
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-24-2019 03:30 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  If you really wanted to create the best Southern Atlantic / SE conference with tight geography for a lot of fan travel and more ticket sales you need the following conference. This conference would immediatly start some of the best rivalries in G5 and really get back to old school college sports with close conference mates. Imagine the basketball tournament for this conference in Raleigh or Atlanta the crowds would be great.
NORTH
Marshall
James Madison
Liberty
Old Dominion
App State
ECU
Charlotte

SOUTH
Coastal Carolina
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
UAB
Southern Miss
UCF
South Florida

Would also have great Thanksgiving Rivalries:
Marshall vs Liberty
JMU vs ODU
ECU vs App State
Charlotte vs Coastal Carolina
Georgia State vs Georgia Southern
UAB vs Southern Miss
UCF vs USF
09-27-2019 09:21 AM
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Post: #77
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-26-2019 01:32 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The take your picks stink. MTSU/WKU need to be together college has lost too many rivalries. UCF/USF and FAU/FIU ought to be pairs when making dream date conference.

Also the "take your picks" don't fully reflect Marshall's interests ... either UCF/USF or FAU/FIU would be preferable to, eg, USF/FIU ... because either involve annual trips to Florida that are close enough together to be useful in maintaining a coherent set of recruiting relationships.
09-27-2019 09:35 AM
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Post: #78
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-25-2019 03:46 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  This is turning into a shortest ***** contest at an ice cold swimming pool.

I'm sorry some CUSA folks get miffed that Sun Belt is on par with CUSA these days, it's not like it is an achievement.

Pre-title game departed teams account for 5.5 titles and current teams 3.5 (USM)
Post-title game departed teams account for 14 of 16 divisional titles and current teams 2 (USM) and departed teams represented 7 conference titles and current teams account for 1.

In hoops same time period.
Regular Season champion (best league record or top seed deemed champ)
Departed 15 Current 2
Tournament Champion
Departed 15 Current 2 (if Charlotte hadn't returned the number would be zero)

Sun Belt 2001 through 2012
Football
Departees 5.5 titles (giving partial for split titles) Current 6.5
Hoops
Regular season
Departees 8 Current 4 (note that one departee is now in the Summit and two of the regular season "titles" won by WKU came in years where they won it by a half game because SBC East played 14 games and SBC West played 15 and had tied on wins).
Tournament
Departees 8 Current 4.

One conference got beat up worse than the other in realignment

I don't know if this is the best analysis. In football I don't think you really need much analysis to say that CUSA took a big hit and SB probably got a little better. In basketball CUSA had Memphis and........for a long time and lost Memphis. The Sun Belt lost all it's basketball cache in the 90's and what was left they lost in the recent realignment.
09-27-2019 10:25 AM
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RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-27-2019 09:18 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 11:15 AM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 08:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  It would be a big step down in prestige to go to the Sun Belt.

It's not necessarily (1) fair or (2) true as regards on-the-field results. But, yes, the Sun Belt is still considered less prestigious than the C-USA. By a decent margin.

Is it because Western Ky, FIU, FAU, North Texas and Middle Tennesse St left the Sun Belt for CUSA a few years ago, and a "pecking order" was established?

Or because CUSA averages 1,500 to 2,000 more per game in announced football attendance?

Or some other reason?

Doesn't seem a "big" step down to me. A very small step down, maybe.

Either way, if the Sun Belt has a few more years like the current season and CUSA continues to beat almost no FBS teams in the nonconference, perceptions will change . . .

Probably the biggest reasons are a combination of history, basketball success and academic standing of the top schools. And then there is the name. CUSA 3.0 <> CUSA 2.0 <> CUSA 1.0, but they still have the brand name.

One piece of history is simply time in FBS.
60% of the Sun Belt hasn't even been in FBS 8 years. 70% weren't in FBS in 2000.
30% have started up football in the last 10 years. Only ULL was in FBS before 1992. CUSA has some of that too, but isn't nearly so extreme. Note that I think CUSA adding Charlotte and Old Dominion was a mistake. They should have gone after Arkansas St. and ULL, which were more established football programs.

Conference Joined top level
USA always UTEP
USA always Rice
USA 1963 Southern Mississippi
Sun Belt 1974 Louisiana-Lafayette
USA 1989 Louisiana Tech
Sun Belt 1992 Arkansas State
Sun Belt 1994 Louisiana-Monroe
USA 1995 North Texas
USA 1996 Alabama-Birmingham
USA 1998 Marshall
USA 1999 Middle Tennessee
Sun Belt 2002 Troy State
USA 2006 Florida Atlantic
USA 2006 Florida International
USA 2009 Western Kentucky
Sun Belt 2012 South Alabama
Sun Belt 2012 Texas State
USA 2012 Texas-San Antonio
Sun Belt 2013 Georgia State
USA 2014 Old Dominion
Sun Belt 2014 Georgia Southern
Sun Belt 2014 Appalachian State
USA 2015 Charlotte
Sun Belt 2017 Coastal Carolina
09-27-2019 11:43 AM
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Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-27-2019 10:25 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(09-25-2019 03:46 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  This is turning into a shortest ***** contest at an ice cold swimming pool.

I'm sorry some CUSA folks get miffed that Sun Belt is on par with CUSA these days, it's not like it is an achievement.

Pre-title game departed teams account for 5.5 titles and current teams 3.5 (USM)
Post-title game departed teams account for 14 of 16 divisional titles and current teams 2 (USM) and departed teams represented 7 conference titles and current teams account for 1.

In hoops same time period.
Regular Season champion (best league record or top seed deemed champ)
Departed 15 Current 2
Tournament Champion
Departed 15 Current 2 (if Charlotte hadn't returned the number would be zero)

Sun Belt 2001 through 2012
Football
Departees 5.5 titles (giving partial for split titles) Current 6.5
Hoops
Regular season
Departees 8 Current 4 (note that one departee is now in the Summit and two of the regular season "titles" won by WKU came in years where they won it by a half game because SBC East played 14 games and SBC West played 15 and had tied on wins).
Tournament
Departees 8 Current 4.

One conference got beat up worse than the other in realignment

I don't know if this is the best analysis. In football I don't think you really need much analysis to say that CUSA took a big hit and SB probably got a little better. In basketball CUSA had Memphis and........for a long time and lost Memphis. The Sun Belt lost all it's basketball cache in the 90's and what was left they lost in the recent realignment.


Though the UALR and GaSt tournament wins broke a notable drought so hoops actually had better post-realignment performance than the same period before.

When the WAC tried to recruit North Texas the AD asked the commissioner of the Belt to talk to a senior administrator (not CEO of the campus but influential).

After getting “better league” on repeat but no real specifics commissioner asked who in the WAC made him feel so strong about joining. The administrator proceeded to list WAC schools who were in MWC. The next day UNT released statement of commitment to the league.

CUSA does have some brand value but eventually people quit associating the Missouri Valley name with Big 8 schools and quit associating the Southern with the schools leaving to form SEC and later those who left to form ACC.


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09-27-2019 08:40 PM
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