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Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
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Post: #41
RE: Why don’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-24-2019 12:29 PM)panama Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 11:15 AM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 08:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  It would be a big step down in prestige to go to the Sun Belt. Also a step down in athletic budgets. And the Sun Belt has been very up and down. A couple years ago they did no better than FCS schools did against FBS. Nobody is going to make a decision based on a couple of good years.

I also suspect Marshall and USM are also going to want to stay with FAU and FIU for recruiting reasons.

It's not necessarily (1) fair or (2) true as regards on-the-field results. But, yes, the Sun Belt is still considered less prestigious than the C-USA. By a decent margin.

Southern Miss too. They were once conference-mates with multiple schools now in the ACC or American. That would make a move to the Sun Belt even tougher on their "ego."
"Decent Margin" ? By who? CUSA fans? Lol

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09-24-2019 04:54 PM
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Post: #42
RE: Why don’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
Sun Belt has been very up and down. Last 10 years ooc vs. FBS starting with 2009:
25.7%
17.7
10.8
28.6
34.2
46.9
13.5
18.0
32.5
24.4
41.2%
09-24-2019 05:03 PM
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Post: #43
RE: Why don’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-24-2019 05:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  Sun Belt has been very up and down. Last 10 years ooc vs. FBS starting with 2009:
25.7%
17.7
10.8
28.6
34.2
46.9
13.5
18.0
32.5
24.4
41.2%

why go back 10 years? the years with the current alignment is more accurate of the Sun Belts current standing among its peers.
09-24-2019 07:38 PM
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Post: #44
RE: Why don’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-24-2019 04:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 11:26 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Because a CUSA with a bunch of FCS move ups, Sun Belt and WAC teams is REALLY PRESTIGIOUS.

If you want amusement. Go look at the schools that moved from Sun Belt to CUSA and their in-conference record their last two years in the Sun Belt vs their in-conference record the first two years in C-USA. Pretty much all of them saw their in-conference record improve when they quit playing Troy, Louisiana and AState.

I was surprised by who the CUSA picked based on football. But then I looked at the athletic budgets. They pretty much went straight down the line and picked the biggest athletic budgets.

Sun Belt is the one with all the FCS moveups and startups. USA, GSU, GSU, CCU, App St. and Texas ST. (also WAC) are very recent moveups and 3 of those are recent startups. Troy hasn't been up that long. Only Ark. St. and ULM go back to the late 80s/early 90s. Only ULL has been in FBS all along.

Its also got a bunch of regional schools non-sports fans have never heard of. CUSA has some of those, but it also has UTEP, Rice, UAB and USM. It also has schools like WKU and UNCC who have had final 4s in basketball (and UTEP won).

If only athletic budgets would make cusa perform better against its peers, and AD's happy with its line up. as it is, the Sun Belt is more concerned with performance on the field and with financial payouts compared to peers. of course every member has a school or 2 they would like to add to the conference. or completely move to AAC, but overall we good. as far as the basketball conversation, what good does claiming a conference is better if its still a 1 bid league.
09-24-2019 07:52 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Why don’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-24-2019 11:55 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Even in basketball, as bad as it’s been since the 2.0 days, there’s more basketball upside and tradition than the Sun Belt. Heck, I wouldn’t be shocked if UTEP has more trips to the NCAAT than the entire Sun Belt combined.

UTEP had a lot of historical success. That is certainly commendable. But to put it in perspective when comparing to South Alabama, you have an NCAA appearance before South Alabama even existed as a school, and 4 appearances before we had our first basketball team. And South Alabama and Louisiana Lafayette combine for more appearances so we can disprove your supposition.

Over the last 30 years, UTEP appearances = 5 South Alabama appearances = 5.
09-24-2019 10:32 PM
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SkullyMaroo Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Why don’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-24-2019 02:02 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 01:38 PM)panama Wrote:  And what does that do for MBB?

We are not hurting football wise. MBB is where we need belp.

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As mturn responded about CUSA BBall earlier; the Sun Belt needs UTA, Little Rock, and App to play like expected. App went from winning conference divisions in the SoCon playing Davidson, CoC, UNCG and Wofford to crapping the bed for the past three coaching hires made by former AD Cobb. Cobb left the program in rubble (good luck GaSt). Now, AD Gillin has done a great job hiring over the last few years. His first BBall hire has been well received by the players.

I would say the Sun Belt needs South Alabama and Louisiana to play to our historical average. USA has been down for several years as our last coach didn’t pan out, but everyone thought it was a great hire at the time. It looks like USA is poised to contend for the SBC title again soon, even as soon as this season.
09-24-2019 10:40 PM
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Post: #47
RE: Why don’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-24-2019 03:08 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 12:29 PM)panama Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 11:22 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Egos kept JMU from the Sun Belt and are now stuck in the CAA possibly long term.
CAA....ewww...

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Yeah, I'd be pretty ambivalent about the CAA if my team was 1-7 its one season there 05-stirthepot
I am not ambivalent. I hate it. Most high schools in Georgia have a better football environment.

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(This post was last modified: 09-24-2019 10:52 PM by panama.)
09-24-2019 10:51 PM
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Post: #48
RE: Why don’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-24-2019 03:37 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 08:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 02:05 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 12:16 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  CUSA basketball is much better than Sun Belt basketball. That's biggest reason I wouldn't want to do it. Also would still be associated with teams I want nothing to do with.

I wish CUSA would trade the Texas schools for App St, Ga Southern, Ga State, Troy,.......THAT is a conference that would get me excited.

In all seriousness while CUSA basketball generally is better than the Sunbelt on the whole it has not really mattered much in a while. In fact when was the last time CUSA was actually "good" in basketball? People like to talk like it is but it has been a while since I think someone could really say that was true.

Note not an individual team doing well but the conference on the whole being "good". I am leaving it vague as to what "good" means since I can see different opinions on what constitutes that.

It would be a big step down in prestige to go to the Sun Belt. Also a step down in athletic budgets. And the Sun Belt has been very up and down. A couple years ago they did no better than FCS schools did against FBS. Nobody is going to make a decision based on a couple of good years.

I also suspect Marshall and USM are also going to want to stay with FAU and FIU for recruiting reasons.
Are you on the drugs?
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09-24-2019 10:52 PM
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Post: #49
Why don’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-24-2019 04:46 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 11:11 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 12:16 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  CUSA basketball is much better than Sun Belt basketball. That's biggest reason I wouldn't want to do it. Also would still be associated with teams I want nothing to do with.

I wish CUSA would trade the Texas schools for App St, Ga Southern, Ga State, Troy,.......THAT is a conference that would get me excited.

Define "much better"
The most recent NCAA Tournament check (which I think comes later this year) CUSA will be paid for 10 units earned and the Sun Belt 8, the grand total of the CUSA check will be about $2.8 million and Sun Belt's a touch over $2.2 million.

The value of CUSA hoops membership vs Sun Belt in hoops to Marshall is $14,000 a year.

13 and you might lose the tournament and still have a shot at an at large berth with a good season. 19 there's no way. There are a LOT of bottom feeders when you get that low.

Like 2018 when MTSU lost and went NIT auto bid? Or 2016 UAB? 2015 La Tech? 2014 La Tech?

The last time the CUSA regular season champion made it to the NCAA via at-large bid was 2011 and it was a first four appearance. Last time for Sun Belt 2013.


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09-24-2019 11:30 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Why don’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
It's about basketball support. In terms of taking basketball serious, support, attendance, etc there is NO COMPARISON. Overall athletic budgets as well as money from ticket sales, etc, CUSA wins again. In the long term, CUSA is a safer bet imo.

Having said that, I would love to trade the Texas schools to be in a conference with App, Ga So, Troy....to a lesser degree it you could add Louisiana and Ark St to the list. It's nothing against the Texas schools, they just happen to be all the way in Texas while we are in West Virginia.

Back to basketball....

The Sun Belt only has 3 teams who average over 3k/game in basketball. Louisiana has the highest attendance in the Sun Belt with 3,940/game. That would be good for 6th highest attendance in CUSA.


ODU- 6,620
Marshall- 6,065
WKU- 5,809
UTEP 4,677
MTSU- 4,019



CUSA also has 9 teams who average over 3k/game with So Miss at over 2,900/game. There's really no comparison here imo.
09-25-2019 12:20 AM
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Post: #51
RE: Why don’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-23-2019 06:31 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  I’m really liking the progress the Sun Belt is making.
They are in much better conference than CUSA, performance wise.
They are in a tighter geographical footprint than CUSA. ...

For Marshall, this is just a silly. Marshall is a football-first school. For CUSA football, what really matters is your division ... heck, a recruit that doesn't suit up in all of their freshmen or sophomore year games might never see some of the CUSA Western Division schools on the same field.

And the CUSA East of Marshall, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, Charlotte, ODU and the two FU's is a lovely division ... four good institutional fits in two neighboring states and their neighbors (and in that part of the country it's a big difference whether "two states away" is east/west or north/south), plus an annual trip to South Florida which is essential to Marshall's football recruiting.

Now, Georgia and Alabama are good recruiting grounds too, but shifting recruiting grounds with the new relationships that need to be built is a transition for a school, and sometimes it's a rocky transition.

Marshall joining the Sunbelt would not be as silly as Marshall rejoining the MAC ... but short of an invitation to join the America, the CUSA East would seem to be where Marshall would rather play its football. It's almost as if Marshall had a say in the construction of that division (Note for those playing the home game: they did).
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2019 12:28 AM by BruceMcF.)
09-25-2019 12:27 AM
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Post: #52
RE: Why don’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
I’d have to think Marshall and USM would view moving into the Sun Belt to be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. There’s just not enough pro’s to make it worth the move. The same for the Sun Belt schools, there’s no incentive to hop across the street anymore. Members of both conferences are probably content until a clear step up into the AAC or equivalent move comes.

Though, I do think there’s a group of schools within the Sun Belt and CUSA that would be stronger together than in separate conferences. Say a core group of schools break away: UAB, Troy, Ga State, Ga Southern, App State, and Charlotte and then look to cherry pick 6 other teams from the two conferences. Would that be a group that Marshall and USM fans would be interested in joining? What other 4 schools would y’all want to add to that group to make you say yes?

Imagine a conference that looks like:
ODU, Marshall, MT, Ga State, Ga Southern, Charlotte, App State, UAB, Troy, USM, Ark State, and FAU
09-25-2019 08:48 AM
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Post: #53
RE: Why don’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-25-2019 08:48 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  Imagine a conference that looks like:
ODU, Marshall, MT, Ga State, Ga Southern, Charlotte, App State, UAB, Troy, USM, Ark State, and FAU



Yes. This is a conference I would love to see happen. Would also be ok with substituting one of the schools for WKU or leaving it how it is.

This would be a million times better than the current CUSA or current Sun Belt.
09-25-2019 09:07 AM
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Post: #54
RE: Why don’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-25-2019 08:48 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  I’d have to think Marshall and USM would view moving into the Sun Belt to be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. There’s just not enough pro’s to make it worth the move. The same for the Sun Belt schools, there’s no incentive to hop across the street anymore. Members of both conferences are probably content until a clear step up into the AAC or equivalent move comes.

Though, I do think there’s a group of schools within the Sun Belt and CUSA that would be stronger together than in separate conferences. Say a core group of schools break away: UAB, Troy, Ga State, Ga Southern, App State, and Charlotte and then look to cherry pick 6 other teams from the two conferences. Would that be a group that Marshall and USM fans would be interested in joining? What other 4 schools would y’all want to add to that group to make you say yes?

Imagine a conference that looks like:
ODU, Marshall, MT, Ga State, Ga Southern, Charlotte, App State, UAB, Troy, USM, Ark State, and FAU

Maybe save a few bucks in travel and make a few bucks more in football revenue but I think CUSA exit fee is $2 million. Cost recovering that would take quite a while.

Assuming the newcomers got full shares when CUSA was using exit fees to replace lost TV revenue, the teams that joined last round should have cost-recovered in under 24 months. A school going either direction would need about 4X that if they ever recovered the costs.
09-25-2019 11:40 AM
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Post: #55
RE: Why don’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-24-2019 10:32 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 11:55 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Even in basketball, as bad as it’s been since the 2.0 days, there’s more basketball upside and tradition than the Sun Belt. Heck, I wouldn’t be shocked if UTEP has more trips to the NCAAT than the entire Sun Belt combined.

UTEP had a lot of historical success. That is certainly commendable. But to put it in perspective when comparing to South Alabama, you have an NCAA appearance before South Alabama even existed as a school, and 4 appearances before we had our first basketball team. And South Alabama and Louisiana Lafayette combine for more appearances so we can disprove your supposition.

Over the last 30 years, UTEP appearances = 5 South Alabama appearances = 5.

Current C-USA schools NCAAT trips with the last 30 years (1989-90 to 2018-19) in parenthesis:

UAB 15 (8)
UTEP 17 (5)
Western Kentucky 23 (10)
Old Dominion 12 (8)
Charlotte 11 (9)
Middle Tennessee 9 (3)
Marshall 6 (1)
Louisiana Tech 5 (1)
Southern Miss 3 (3)
Rice 4 (0)
UTSA 4 (3)
North Texas 3 (2)
Florida Atlantic 1 (1)
Florida International 1 (1)
TOTAL 114 (55)

Current Sun Belt schools:

Arkansas State 1 (1)
Texas State 2 (2)
Louisiana 10 (6)
Louisiana-Monroe 7 (5)
Troy 2 (2)
South Alabama 8 (5)
Georgia State 5 (5)
Georgia Southern 3 (1)
Appalachian State 2 (1)
Coastal Carolina 4 (4)
Little Rock 5 (3)
UT Arlington 1 (1)
TOTAL 50 (36)

Three C-USA schools have as many NCAAs as the entire Sun Belt. Five C-USA schools have more NCAAs since the 1989-90 season than the entire Sun Belt.

I’m not putting the Sun Belt down. I like and respect that conference. But adding more schools or breaking up/merging either conference will not help on anything. What C-USA needs is to have its five core basketball schools (UTEP, UAB, WKU, ODU and Charlotte) live up to the expectations and start winning again and make noise in the NCAAT. A conference with those five plus MTSU has no excuse in being a one-bid league.
09-25-2019 12:41 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-25-2019 12:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 10:32 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 11:55 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Even in basketball, as bad as it’s been since the 2.0 days, there’s more basketball upside and tradition than the Sun Belt. Heck, I wouldn’t be shocked if UTEP has more trips to the NCAAT than the entire Sun Belt combined.

UTEP had a lot of historical success. That is certainly commendable. But to put it in perspective when comparing to South Alabama, you have an NCAA appearance before South Alabama even existed as a school, and 4 appearances before we had our first basketball team. And South Alabama and Louisiana Lafayette combine for more appearances so we can disprove your supposition.

Over the last 30 years, UTEP appearances = 5 South Alabama appearances = 5.

Current C-USA schools NCAAT trips with the last 30 years (1989-90 to 2018-19) in parenthesis:

UAB 15 (8)
UTEP 17 (5)
Western Kentucky 23 (10)
Old Dominion 12 (8)
Charlotte 11 (9)
Middle Tennessee 9 (3)
Marshall 6 (1)
Louisiana Tech 5 (1)
Southern Miss 3 (3)
Rice 4 (0)
UTSA 4 (3)
North Texas 3 (2)
Florida Atlantic 1 (1)
Florida International 1 (1)
TOTAL 114 (55)

Current Sun Belt schools:

Arkansas State 1 (1)
Texas State 2 (2)
Louisiana 10 (6)
Louisiana-Monroe 7 (5)
Troy 2 (2)
South Alabama 8 (5)
Georgia State 5 (5)
Georgia Southern 3 (1)
Appalachian State 2 (1)
Coastal Carolina 4 (4)
Little Rock 5 (3)
UT Arlington 1 (1)
TOTAL 50 (36)

Three C-USA schools have as many NCAAs as the entire Sun Belt. Five C-USA schools have more NCAAs since the 1989-90 season than the entire Sun Belt.

I’m not putting the Sun Belt down. I like and respect that conference. But adding more schools or breaking up/merging either conference will not help on anything. What C-USA needs is to have its five core basketball schools (UTEP, UAB, WKU, ODU and Charlotte) live up to the expectations and start winning again and make noise in the NCAAT. A conference with those five plus MTSU has no excuse in being a one-bid league.



You use 30 years as an example; however:

UTEP joined 14 years ago
UNCC rejoined 6 years ago
UTSA joined 6 years ago
WKU joined 6 years ago
ODU joined 6 years ago
MTSU joined 6 years ago



And that would reduce the difference between Sun Belt and CUSA tremendously.


Let's use what the current conference makeup has achieved?

How many NCAA bids in the last 6 years for the conferences?
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2019 01:11 PM by Yosef Himself.)
09-25-2019 01:10 PM
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Post: #57
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-25-2019 01:10 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(09-25-2019 12:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 10:32 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 11:55 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Even in basketball, as bad as it’s been since the 2.0 days, there’s more basketball upside and tradition than the Sun Belt. Heck, I wouldn’t be shocked if UTEP has more trips to the NCAAT than the entire Sun Belt combined.

UTEP had a lot of historical success. That is certainly commendable. But to put it in perspective when comparing to South Alabama, you have an NCAA appearance before South Alabama even existed as a school, and 4 appearances before we had our first basketball team. And South Alabama and Louisiana Lafayette combine for more appearances so we can disprove your supposition.

Over the last 30 years, UTEP appearances = 5 South Alabama appearances = 5.

Current C-USA schools NCAAT trips with the last 30 years (1989-90 to 2018-19) in parenthesis:

UAB 15 (8)
UTEP 17 (5)
Western Kentucky 23 (10)
Old Dominion 12 (8)
Charlotte 11 (9)
Middle Tennessee 9 (3)
Marshall 6 (1)
Louisiana Tech 5 (1)
Southern Miss 3 (3)
Rice 4 (0)
UTSA 4 (3)
North Texas 3 (2)
Florida Atlantic 1 (1)
Florida International 1 (1)
TOTAL 114 (55)

Current Sun Belt schools:

Arkansas State 1 (1)
Texas State 2 (2)
Louisiana 10 (6)
Louisiana-Monroe 7 (5)
Troy 2 (2)
South Alabama 8 (5)
Georgia State 5 (5)
Georgia Southern 3 (1)
Appalachian State 2 (1)
Coastal Carolina 4 (4)
Little Rock 5 (3)
UT Arlington 1 (1)
TOTAL 50 (36)

Three C-USA schools have as many NCAAs as the entire Sun Belt. Five C-USA schools have more NCAAs since the 1989-90 season than the entire Sun Belt.

I’m not putting the Sun Belt down. I like and respect that conference. But adding more schools or breaking up/merging either conference will not help on anything. What C-USA needs is to have its five core basketball schools (UTEP, UAB, WKU, ODU and Charlotte) live up to the expectations and start winning again and make noise in the NCAAT. A conference with those five plus MTSU has no excuse in being a one-bid league.



You use 30 years as an example; however:

UTEP joined 14 years ago
UNCC rejoined 6 years ago
UTSA joined 6 years ago
WKU joined 6 years ago
ODU joined 6 years ago
MTSU joined 6 years ago



And that would reduce the difference between Sun Belt and CUSA tremendously.


Let's use what the current conference makeup has achieved?

How many NCAA bids in the last 6 years for the conferences?




I'll actually respond:

2014: CUSA: 1 / SBC: 1
2015: CUSA: 1 / SBC: 1
2016: CUSA: 1 / SBC: 1
2017: CUSA: 1 / SBC: 1
2018: CUSA: 1 / SBC: 1
2019: CUSA: 1 / SBC: 1
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2019 01:16 PM by Yosef Himself.)
09-25-2019 01:15 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-25-2019 01:10 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(09-25-2019 12:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 10:32 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 11:55 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Even in basketball, as bad as it’s been since the 2.0 days, there’s more basketball upside and tradition than the Sun Belt. Heck, I wouldn’t be shocked if UTEP has more trips to the NCAAT than the entire Sun Belt combined.

UTEP had a lot of historical success. That is certainly commendable. But to put it in perspective when comparing to South Alabama, you have an NCAA appearance before South Alabama even existed as a school, and 4 appearances before we had our first basketball team. And South Alabama and Louisiana Lafayette combine for more appearances so we can disprove your supposition.

Over the last 30 years, UTEP appearances = 5 South Alabama appearances = 5.

Current C-USA schools NCAAT trips with the last 30 years (1989-90 to 2018-19) in parenthesis:

UAB 15 (8)
UTEP 17 (5)
Western Kentucky 23 (10)
Old Dominion 12 (8)
Charlotte 11 (9)
Middle Tennessee 9 (3)
Marshall 6 (1)
Louisiana Tech 5 (1)
Southern Miss 3 (3)
Rice 4 (0)
UTSA 4 (3)
North Texas 3 (2)
Florida Atlantic 1 (1)
Florida International 1 (1)
TOTAL 114 (55)

Current Sun Belt schools:

Arkansas State 1 (1)
Texas State 2 (2)
Louisiana 10 (6)
Louisiana-Monroe 7 (5)
Troy 2 (2)
South Alabama 8 (5)
Georgia State 5 (5)
Georgia Southern 3 (1)
Appalachian State 2 (1)
Coastal Carolina 4 (4)
Little Rock 5 (3)
UT Arlington 1 (1)
TOTAL 50 (36)

Three C-USA schools have as many NCAAs as the entire Sun Belt. Five C-USA schools have more NCAAs since the 1989-90 season than the entire Sun Belt.

I’m not putting the Sun Belt down. I like and respect that conference. But adding more schools or breaking up/merging either conference will not help on anything. What C-USA needs is to have its five core basketball schools (UTEP, UAB, WKU, ODU and Charlotte) live up to the expectations and start winning again and make noise in the NCAAT. A conference with those five plus MTSU has no excuse in being a one-bid league.



You use 30 years as an example; however:

UTEP joined 14 years ago
UNCC rejoined 6 years ago
UTSA joined 6 years ago
WKU joined 6 years ago
ODU joined 6 years ago
MTSU joined 6 years ago



And that would reduce the difference between Sun Belt and CUSA tremendously.


Let's use what the current conference makeup has achieved?

How many NCAA bids in the last 6 years for the conferences?

The only reason why I’m using 30 years is because Skully Maroo did it. But the point remains the same. We don’t need more schools nor splitting will help getting better basketball. A school like UAB would go from one mediocre conference to another (perhaps worse). C-USA has five schools that have had success before. Can the Sun Belt claim the same?
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2019 01:53 PM by UTEPDallas.)
09-25-2019 01:47 PM
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SkullyMaroo Offline
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Posts: 7,098
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I Root For: South Alabama
Location: Mobile
Post: #59
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-25-2019 12:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 10:32 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 11:55 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Even in basketball, as bad as it’s been since the 2.0 days, there’s more basketball upside and tradition than the Sun Belt. Heck, I wouldn’t be shocked if UTEP has more trips to the NCAAT than the entire Sun Belt combined.

UTEP had a lot of historical success. That is certainly commendable. But to put it in perspective when comparing to South Alabama, you have an NCAA appearance before South Alabama even existed as a school, and 4 appearances before we had our first basketball team. And South Alabama and Louisiana Lafayette combine for more appearances so we can disprove your supposition.

Over the last 30 years, UTEP appearances = 5 South Alabama appearances = 5.

Current C-USA schools NCAAT trips with the last 30 years (1989-90 to 2018-19) in parenthesis:

UAB 15 (8)
UTEP 17 (5)
Western Kentucky 23 (10)
Old Dominion 12 (8)
Charlotte 11 (9)
Middle Tennessee 9 (3)
Marshall 6 (1)
Louisiana Tech 5 (1)
Southern Miss 3 (3)
Rice 4 (0)
UTSA 4 (3)
North Texas 3 (2)
Florida Atlantic 1 (1)
Florida International 1 (1)
TOTAL 114 (55)

Current Sun Belt schools:

Arkansas State 1 (1)
Texas State 2 (2)
Louisiana 10 (6)
Louisiana-Monroe 7 (5)
Troy 2 (2)
South Alabama 8 (5)
Georgia State 5 (5)
Georgia Southern 3 (1)
Appalachian State 2 (1)
Coastal Carolina 4 (4)
Little Rock 5 (3)
UT Arlington 1 (1)
TOTAL 50 (36)

Three C-USA schools have as many NCAAs as the entire Sun Belt. Five C-USA schools have more NCAAs since the 1989-90 season than the entire Sun Belt.

I’m not putting the Sun Belt down. I like and respect that conference. But adding more schools or breaking up/merging either conference will not help on anything. What C-USA needs is to have its five core basketball schools (UTEP, UAB, WKU, ODU and Charlotte) live up to the expectations and start winning again and make noise in the NCAAT. A conference with those five plus MTSU has no excuse in being a one-bid league.

I’ve not made any arguments for adding or merging teams within our two conferences. I’ve neither put down CUSA nor compared the Sun Belt to CUSA. I’ve also not claimed the Sun Belt was better. I was simply addressing your comment comparing UTEP to the Sun Belt. You’ve moved the goalposts, but it’s trivial for me to rebut this response considering 27 appearances from current CUSA members came while they were in the Sun Belt. In years when the SBC was a one bid league those appearances kept another SBC team from going, which means the math is going to favor CUSA in a big way.
09-25-2019 01:52 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Why doesn’t Southern Miss and Marshall join the Sun Belt?
(09-25-2019 01:52 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(09-25-2019 12:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 10:32 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 11:55 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Even in basketball, as bad as it’s been since the 2.0 days, there’s more basketball upside and tradition than the Sun Belt. Heck, I wouldn’t be shocked if UTEP has more trips to the NCAAT than the entire Sun Belt combined.

UTEP had a lot of historical success. That is certainly commendable. But to put it in perspective when comparing to South Alabama, you have an NCAA appearance before South Alabama even existed as a school, and 4 appearances before we had our first basketball team. And South Alabama and Louisiana Lafayette combine for more appearances so we can disprove your supposition.

Over the last 30 years, UTEP appearances = 5 South Alabama appearances = 5.

Current C-USA schools NCAAT trips with the last 30 years (1989-90 to 2018-19) in parenthesis:

UAB 15 (8)
UTEP 17 (5)
Western Kentucky 23 (10)
Old Dominion 12 (8)
Charlotte 11 (9)
Middle Tennessee 9 (3)
Marshall 6 (1)
Louisiana Tech 5 (1)
Southern Miss 3 (3)
Rice 4 (0)
UTSA 4 (3)
North Texas 3 (2)
Florida Atlantic 1 (1)
Florida International 1 (1)
TOTAL 114 (55)

Current Sun Belt schools:

Arkansas State 1 (1)
Texas State 2 (2)
Louisiana 10 (6)
Louisiana-Monroe 7 (5)
Troy 2 (2)
South Alabama 8 (5)
Georgia State 5 (5)
Georgia Southern 3 (1)
Appalachian State 2 (1)
Coastal Carolina 4 (4)
Little Rock 5 (3)
UT Arlington 1 (1)
TOTAL 50 (36)

Three C-USA schools have as many NCAAs as the entire Sun Belt. Five C-USA schools have more NCAAs since the 1989-90 season than the entire Sun Belt.

I’m not putting the Sun Belt down. I like and respect that conference. But adding more schools or breaking up/merging either conference will not help on anything. What C-USA needs is to have its five core basketball schools (UTEP, UAB, WKU, ODU and Charlotte) live up to the expectations and start winning again and make noise in the NCAAT. A conference with those five plus MTSU has no excuse in being a one-bid league.

I’ve not made any arguments for adding or merging teams within our two conferences. I’ve neither put down CUSA nor compared the Sun Belt to CUSA. I’ve also not claimed the Sun Belt was better. I was simply addressing your comment comparing UTEP to the Sun Belt. You’ve moved the goalposts, but it’s trivial for me to rebut this response considering 27 appearances from current CUSA members came while they were in the Sun Belt. In years when the SBC was a one bid league those appearances kept another SBC team from going, which means the math is going to favor CUSA in a big way.

That’s why I quote unquote “heck, I wouldn’t be shocked if UTEP has more trips to the NCAAT than the entire Sun Belt combined” because I didn’t have any data backing up that claim. It was an exaggeration. Looking at the data available, it was three schools not one. You proceeded by writing that UTEP and South Alabama are pretty much the same because both have five NCAAs in the last 30 years. So who’s moving the goalpost? BTW, I still counted Louisiana’s two vacated appearances because even if the NCAA disagrees, the team still played those games.
09-25-2019 02:12 PM
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