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OOC records: MWC vs AAC
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #21
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
(09-28-2019 10:44 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(09-22-2019 01:53 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  Kind of a shame the two conferences have only played two games against each other. I'd like to see more AAC-MWC matchups.

+1. Problem is that there’s just no proximity.

Houston and SMU are closer to at least 4 Mountain West schools (UNM, AFA, CSU, Wyoming) than they are to AAC schools on the east coast.
09-29-2019 05:23 PM
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CougarRed Offline
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Post: #22
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
In the Massey composite, the average American team is closer to the average ACC team than the average MWC team.
09-29-2019 06:07 PM
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sierrajip Offline
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Post: #23
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
(09-29-2019 01:22 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(09-28-2019 11:55 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Doesn't make sense to look at computers until after 5-6 games have been played, because until then most are using last year's data to plug holes, or the confidence intervals are too wide because of not enough data points.

Next week or the week after, we can just look at the MC conference rankings to see who is on top.
The OP is mainly just a list of scores from games already played. Computers have nothing to do with that. Another poster added in the current Massey-ratings to provide some additional context. Of course we will know more as the season progresses. Doesn’t mean there’s no reason to review the data we have so far. Strange that you would seem to have a problem with that.

(09-29-2019 12:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I am a very well-established Voice of Reason who generally sticks to facts rather than dons a fanboy hat.
(09-29-2019 06:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  the AAC fanboys have banned me from that board for no reason, lol.
Quo, if I were the King of the AAC Board, I would gladly allow you to post there. But I would have to say, your reputation as a self-proclaimed Voice of Reason is damaged when you claim that the AAC would benefit from allowing UConn to remain as a football-only member while playing other sports in the BE. Or when you claim that other AAC members like Cincinnati, would be better off to follow UConn’s path of withdrawing from the AAC in order to become Independent in football. Posting such nonsense is evidence that you alternate between Voice of Reason and Troll of Bitterness.

+2
09-29-2019 07:42 PM
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WhoseHouse? Offline
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Post: #24
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
(09-29-2019 05:23 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-28-2019 10:44 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(09-22-2019 01:53 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  Kind of a shame the two conferences have only played two games against each other. I'd like to see more AAC-MWC matchups.

+1. Problem is that there’s just no proximity.

Houston and SMU are closer to at least 4 Mountain West schools (UNM, AFA, CSU, Wyoming) than they are to AAC schools on the east coast.

And if the American ever got severely raided I'd want UH and SMU to look to join the MWC.
09-29-2019 08:09 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #25
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
Having UConn stay in the AAC for football only would be good for the following two reasons:

1. It gives the AAC 12 teams (perfect for divisions and scheduling purposes — and for keeping this OCD-suffering man happy based on the "numbers game").

2. It keeps the modest football rivalry intact between the Huskies and their American brethen, not a bad thing for the other 11 AAC teams.

I would be OK with UConn staying for football only for those two reasons. The university does bring a degree of overall prestige, no doubt.

But allowing UConn to stay in the AAC for football only would be similar to this scenario...

Bill Dazzle (pushing 60) was lucky enough to date an eye-catching and vivacious 38-year-old for about two years because she couldn't find (as Pearl Jam once sung) a "better man." She one day says she never really wanted to have sex with me and and will no longer do so. BUT she likes the attention I give her and my money and requests that I keep wining and dining her (without the sex) while she looks for a younger and far more handsome man. If I go for that proposal ... I am a pathetic loser.

I wish UConn nothing but the best and as a follower of two Big East schools (including DePaul since the late 1980s), I'm pleased to have them back in the BE. But to keep them in the AAC for football only ... it simply would not work. It would show the AAC as desperate. No need for any bitterness. I want Memphis and Cincy to still play UConn in hoops. But I'm not going to lose sleep that UConn will not remain in the American for football only.

It's time to move on for both the AAC and UConn.

As to UC "pulling a UConn" and joining the BE for all sports but hoops ... I would be militantly opposed to that. Cincy is as good as it is in basketball, to an extent, because it sponsors DI football (and is actually rather solid at it). Same for Memphis. "My schools" are doing the best they can (and doing it fairly well) in a non-power league. Stay the course, UC and UM. But be cool and classy and wish UConn well, understanding that this move for the Husky athletic program makes sense.
(This post was last modified: 09-29-2019 09:22 PM by bill dazzle.)
09-29-2019 09:20 PM
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CougarRed Offline
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Post: #26
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
(09-29-2019 05:23 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Houston and SMU are closer to at least 4 Mountain West schools (UNM, AFA, CSU, Wyoming) than they are to AAC schools on the east coast.

Distance-wise, you're right. The six closest MWC schools are slightly closer on average than the six farthest American schools. (Losing UConn helps matters.)

But population-wise, American destinations offer a much bigger pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Which means there are a lot more flights to American destinations.

Houston to

UCF = 963
USF = 980
Cincy = 1,047
ECU = 1,271
Temple = 1,549
UConn = 1,753

Houston to

New Mexico = 883
Air Force = 958
Colo St = 1,091
Wyoming = 1,156
UNLV = 1,474
Utah St = 1,539
09-30-2019 05:47 AM
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Native Georgian Online
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Post: #27
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
(09-29-2019 04:14 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think the AAC would be better off just letting UConn keep football in the AAC.
Quote:As for Cincy, I'm not sure I said they would be better off to follow UConn's path, but I think it should give them pause to consider it.
An honest question, not just for QV but for anyone who wants to play: Can you name anyone who has publicly said/hinted that UConn or UC should follow the paths you have recommended for them? Could be a member of the media, or a current or former coach/admin/player, or even just a random fan quoted in an article. Could be absolutely anybody at all. But somebody identified by name in the media.
09-30-2019 06:24 PM
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Post: #28
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
Both conferences have done pretty well ooc this year so far.

Vs. FBS
Big 10 26-8 76.5%
Big 12 15-6 71.4% (finished for the year)
SEC 19-10 65.5%
ACC 20-12 62.5%
Pac 12 16-10 61.5%

AAC 18-13 58.1%
MWC 14-14 50.0%

Ind. 10-15 40.0%
SB 9-16 36.0%
CUSA 7-28 20.0%
MAC 6-28 17.7%
09-30-2019 09:12 PM
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slhNavy91 Online
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Post: #29
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
(09-30-2019 06:24 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(09-29-2019 04:14 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think the AAC would be better off just letting UConn keep football in the AAC.
Quote:As for Cincy, I'm not sure I said they would be better off to follow UConn's path, but I think it should give them pause to consider it.
An honest question, not just for QV but for anyone who wants to play: Can you name anyone who has publicly said/hinted that UConn or UC should follow the paths you have recommended for them? Could be a member of the media, or a current or former coach/admin/player, or even just a random fan quoted in an article. Could be absolutely anybody at all. But somebody identified by name in the media.

Are you asking if UConn was trying to keep football in the AAC?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.houston...057439.php

On a conference call early this week, American Athletic Conference presidents listened as Susan Herbst, president of the University of Connecticut, outlined her school’s plan to depart for the Big East and hope to remain as a football-only member.

“It was a no,” a source with knowledge of the call said Thursday. “It wasn’t just a no … it was not happening.”
10-01-2019 04:58 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #30
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
(09-29-2019 04:03 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(09-29-2019 09:56 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(09-29-2019 06:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-29-2019 12:27 AM)Pony94 Wrote:  
(09-29-2019 12:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Because I am a very well-established Voice of Reason who generally sticks to facts rather than dons a fanboy hat.

What I posted is true, which is why it irks an AAC fanboy like yourself. But just be patient - if the AAC is having the best G5 year, the MC will show that in a couple of weeks.


Just like you, Stever never posts on the AAC board so i don’t consider either of you fanboys.

Well in my case its not by choice, as the AAC fanboys have banned me from that board for no reason, lol.

Quo, you are always welcome to talk basketball on the Big East boards. 04-cheers

You are also always welcomed to post on the ACC board as well.
04-cheers

04-cheers
10-01-2019 07:57 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #31
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
(09-29-2019 09:20 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As to UC "pulling a UConn" and joining the BE for all sports but hoops ... I would be militantly opposed to that. Cincy is as good as it is in basketball, to an extent, because it sponsors DI football (and is actually rather solid at it). Same for Memphis. "My schools" are doing the best they can (and doing it fairly well) in a non-power league. Stay the course, UC and UM. But be cool and classy and wish UConn well, understanding that this move for the Husky athletic program makes sense.

I'm not sure about that. The two peaks for Cincy hoops, the turn of the 60s when they went to a bunch of final 4s and won national titles, and the Huggins explosion of the 90s, their football was pretty wretched, not worth mentioning.

There just doesn't seem to be any connection between the success of Cincy hoops, which goes back a long ways, and their football, which didn't play its first bowl game until 1997.
10-01-2019 08:02 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #32
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
(10-01-2019 08:02 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-29-2019 09:20 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As to UC "pulling a UConn" and joining the BE for all sports but hoops ... I would be militantly opposed to that. Cincy is as good as it is in basketball, to an extent, because it sponsors DI football (and is actually rather solid at it). Same for Memphis. "My schools" are doing the best they can (and doing it fairly well) in a non-power league. Stay the course, UC and UM. But be cool and classy and wish UConn well, understanding that this move for the Husky athletic program makes sense.

I'm not sure about that. The two peaks for Cincy hoops, the turn of the 60s when they went to a bunch of final 4s and won national titles, and the Huggins explosion of the 90s, their football was pretty wretched, not worth mentioning.

There just doesn't seem to be any connection between the success of Cincy hoops, which goes back a long ways, and their football, which didn't play its first bowl game until 1997.

You might be correct but I see a symbiotic relationship (regardless of bad football, and I agree with you) between the football and basketball programs at universities such as UC and UofMemphis. I feel it helps to have both sports as the athletic department can cross-market, fans like it, etc... UConn could drop football altogether and its hoops program would remain strong. But that is a VERY different type athletic program and university. For "urban universities" not in power conferences, the dynamic is different from that of UConn. I just don't see Cincy or Memphis doing as well with an arrangement of all sports but football in one league and football as an independent. But again, you might be right.

And I will say this: I would be strongly opposed to such an arrangement for UC and UM unless there is some type amazing opportunity that lends itself to this setup. The Big East is not going to invite either Cincy (in part, due to Xavier) or Memphis so it's a moot point with that league.

As a USF fan, and as you have noted, you want to keep those two with the Bulls in the AAC. And as a Bearcat and Tiger follower of many years, I want UC and UM associated with USF. USF is a strong academic institution in a major city and its football/hoops combo has been very respectable overall.

Yes, Cincy hoops could benefit from Big East membership, but that's a tougher league and makes the Bearcats task all the more daunting. It might actually hurt UC basketball in that respect. The AAC is about as good as it gets for UC at this point. Perhaps a better league awaits but it won't be the Big East realistically. UC wants to play football and have a comprehensive athletic program. The Big East does not allow for that.
10-01-2019 09:10 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #33
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
(10-01-2019 08:02 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-29-2019 09:20 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As to UC "pulling a UConn" and joining the BE for all sports but hoops ... I would be militantly opposed to that. Cincy is as good as it is in basketball, to an extent, because it sponsors DI football (and is actually rather solid at it). Same for Memphis. "My schools" are doing the best they can (and doing it fairly well) in a non-power league. Stay the course, UC and UM. But be cool and classy and wish UConn well, understanding that this move for the Husky athletic program makes sense.

I'm not sure about that. The two peaks for Cincy hoops, the turn of the 60s when they went to a bunch of final 4s and won national titles, and the Huggins explosion of the 90s, their football was pretty wretched, not worth mentioning.

There just doesn't seem to be any connection between the success of Cincy hoops, which goes back a long ways, and their football, which didn't play its first bowl game until 1997.

Actually, UC's first official bowl game was the 1947 Sun Bowl against Virginia Tech (yes, we even played them in a bowl back then). The Bearcats beat the Hokies that day 18-6. Unofficially, the first bowl game was in 1898, a post-season "exhibition" in New Orleans against LSU (Bearcats won 28-0). UC also went on to play in the Glass Bowl in 1949 and went back to the Sun Bowl in 1950.

Going back to UC's hoops runs that you mentioned, you can't mention the early 60s without mentioning the 50s. That era broke down as follows:

1958- Sweet 16
1959- Elite 8
1960- Elite 8
1961- NCAA Champ
1962- NCAA Champ
1963- NCAA Runner-Up

UC FB wasn't awful during the 50s and 60s. In the early to mid 50s, UC won the MAC twice; UC won the MVC in 1963 and 1964. Sid Gillman coached the Bearcats from 1949-54 and was 50-13-1 over that time.

UC Football was bad during the 70s and 80s, but that had little to do with the basketball program (FWIW UC hoops was good in the 70s but financial issues and probation following the Gale Catlett era made the 80s a lost decade of UC hoops). UC's football woes during the 70s and 80s had to do with money issues brought on by multiple factors, one being the university switching from a "municipally sponsored, state-affiliated university" to a state institution in 1977.
10-01-2019 09:46 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #34
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
Sure, there's a symbiotic relationship between basketball and football.

Just look at Boise's recent run of hoops relevance since 2012. I highly doubt that would have happened if they hadn't won so many football games.

Or look at the rise of Louisville football in the 90s & Cincinnati football in the 00s. Neither of those would have happened without the large fanbase that was built up from sustained hoops success.
10-01-2019 10:13 AM
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goodknightfl Offline
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Post: #35
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
AAC got another win over MWC today, to make it 3-0 over MWC
(This post was last modified: 10-06-2019 09:19 AM by goodknightfl.)
10-05-2019 11:55 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #36
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
2 weeks ago, the two conferences looked fairly even, with the AAC maybe having a very slight edge. But in the past 2 weeks:

The Mountain West has gone 1-3, with the only win coming over New Mexico State. The losses were to LSU, Navy, and Liberty.
The American has gone 7-0. All wins were over D-1A competition, including wins over Georgia Tech, Air Force, and Army.
(This post was last modified: 10-06-2019 06:36 AM by Captain Bearcat.)
10-06-2019 06:35 AM
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Native Georgian Online
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Post: #37
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
(10-05-2019 11:55 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  AAC got another win over MWC today, to make it 4-0 over MWC
@Tulsa 24, Wyoming 21
Tulsa 34, @San Jose State 16
@Navy 34, Air Force 25

Who’s #4?
10-06-2019 07:36 AM
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goodknightfl Offline
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Post: #38
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
(10-06-2019 07:36 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(10-05-2019 11:55 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  AAC got another win over MWC today, to make it 3-0 over MWC
@Tulsa 24, Wyoming 21
Tulsa 34, @San Jose State 16
@Navy 34, Air Force 25

Who’s #4?

fixed it. late night typo.
10-06-2019 09:20 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #39
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
(10-05-2019 11:55 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  AAC got another win over MWC today, to make it 3-0 over MWC

Two lucky wins - AFA had Navy beat, and Wyoming had Tulsa beat a few weeks ago. And both were long road trips for the MW teams.

But yes, they count, LOL.
(This post was last modified: 10-06-2019 10:17 AM by quo vadis.)
10-06-2019 10:15 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #40
RE: OOC records: MWC vs AAC
(10-06-2019 06:35 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  2 weeks ago, the two conferences looked fairly even, with the AAC maybe having a very slight edge. But in the past 2 weeks:

The Mountain West has gone 1-3, with the only win coming over New Mexico State. The losses were to LSU, Navy, and Liberty.
The American has gone 7-0. All wins were over D-1A competition, including wins over Georgia Tech, Air Force, and Army.

Well, in fairness to the MW, nobody in either conference would beat LSU, Liberty beat New Mexico, who probably won't win a game in the MW, and AFA was very unlucky vs Navy.

And Georgia Tech lost to the Citadel, so not sure that is very noteworthy**.

On the other hand, Tulane is good. Upcoming AAC opponents underestimate them at their peril. Best Tulane team in the past two decades. Should be ranked, if not now then soon.







** Of course Tech still beat USF.

03-banghead
(This post was last modified: 10-06-2019 10:39 AM by quo vadis.)
10-06-2019 10:24 AM
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