(09-19-2019 10:01 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(09-19-2019 12:28 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-19-2019 10:56 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-19-2019 09:43 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-19-2019 08:19 AM)stever20 Wrote:  So on the biggest loser of the decade thread I brought up how with the MWC they probably don't get Utah St and San Jose St if they didn't need to go to 12(ok, they definitely don't).

The MWC added USU and SJSU when Boise State and SDSU had signed on to Marinatto's goofy Big East football idea. So the MWC didn't add USU and SJSU to get to 12 football teams, they added them to get to 10. Bringing back Boise and SDSU increased their membership to 12 football teams.

Also, if you want to do a "what if the CCG minimum had always been 10 teams and not 12" hypothetical, then you have to go back to the beginning, start by asking whether the SEC would have invited Arkansas and South Carolina even if they could have just staged a CCG with the 10 teams they already had, and go from there.

If we are going to go with that hypothetical, what if the NCAA had just said no to any FBS CCG? Determine your champion any way you want, as long as you stay within the limits of the number of allowable regular season games (which IIRC was 11 at the time). I think we'd have eventually gone to a 12 game regular season, but I doubt we'd have gotten past 10 members in most conferences.

In that case, would the Big 8 have added four Texas schools when the SWC imploded? Or just UT and A&M? Or even UT and Arkansas, who wouldn't have had a new home in the SEC?

The decision to allow a CCG was the real watershed moment.

The NCAA was never going to block FBS CCGs, because of the way it happened. The SEC just found a loophole, and went ahead and did it without asking. The NCAA was never going to push back against the SEC in those circumstances.

The Big 8 did not add schools from Texas because of the CCG. They did it because they were told they could not get a large enough TV contract otherwise. They would have invited only UT and TAMU if Texas state politics had not gotten in the middle of it.

Did the SEC expand to 12 solely to get a championship game? If the NCAA would have allowed them to have a championship game without expansion at 10 teams would they have felt the need to grow?

What if the answer was Yes they only wanted a championship game and were willing to stand pat at 10 if they could do so and have their extra game.

Arkansas would have gone to the Big 12 with Texas and A&M leaving a lot of questions to be answered.

Would Baylor or Texas Tech have gotten that 12th slot? Would the Big 12 have had to become the Big 14 to accommodate Texas politics?
Who would have been school #14

I would think that Texas politics would still win the day and to avoid an awful 13 team alignment Houston would have gotten to tag along.

This leaves the remaining SWC 3 to join the WAC 16 if that still would have been a thing. If not they would have had to rebuild SWC with the eastern Big West schools (NMSU, North Texas, La Tech, ULL, Ark St).

CUSA would be pretty much the same except South Carolina would take Houston's spot as they wouldnt have many other options, unless they could have pulled off a A10/Big East football spilt like WVU and Va Tech did. They may even get back into the ACC as school #10 if they were lucky.

I think its safe to say though this #12 team championship game rule became the greatest destabilizer in the game

Various reports have indicated SEC wanted to go to 16 in addition to having a title game. With Texas, TAMU, OU, Florida State not interested the battle became same one Big 10 had, figuring out who was #12.

(09-19-2019 10:01 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(09-19-2019 12:28 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-19-2019 10:56 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-19-2019 09:43 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-19-2019 08:19 AM)stever20 Wrote:  So on the biggest loser of the decade thread I brought up how with the MWC they probably don't get Utah St and San Jose St if they didn't need to go to 12(ok, they definitely don't).

The MWC added USU and SJSU when Boise State and SDSU had signed on to Marinatto's goofy Big East football idea. So the MWC didn't add USU and SJSU to get to 12 football teams, they added them to get to 10. Bringing back Boise and SDSU increased their membership to 12 football teams.

Also, if you want to do a "what if the CCG minimum had always been 10 teams and not 12" hypothetical, then you have to go back to the beginning, start by asking whether the SEC would have invited Arkansas and South Carolina even if they could have just staged a CCG with the 10 teams they already had, and go from there.

If we are going to go with that hypothetical, what if the NCAA had just said no to any FBS CCG? Determine your champion any way you want, as long as you stay within the limits of the number of allowable regular season games (which IIRC was 11 at the time). I think we'd have eventually gone to a 12 game regular season, but I doubt we'd have gotten past 10 members in most conferences.

In that case, would the Big 8 have added four Texas schools when the SWC imploded? Or just UT and A&M? Or even UT and Arkansas, who wouldn't have had a new home in the SEC?

The decision to allow a CCG was the real watershed moment.

The NCAA was never going to block FBS CCGs, because of the way it happened. The SEC just found a loophole, and went ahead and did it without asking. The NCAA was never going to push back against the SEC in those circumstances.

The Big 8 did not add schools from Texas because of the CCG. They did it because they were told they could not get a large enough TV contract otherwise. They would have invited only UT and TAMU if Texas state politics had not gotten in the middle of it.

Did the SEC expand to 12 solely to get a championship game? If the NCAA would have allowed them to have a championship game without expansion at 10 teams would they have felt the need to grow?

What if the answer was Yes they only wanted a championship game and were willing to stand pat at 10 if they could do so and have their extra game.

Arkansas would have gone to the Big 12 with Texas and A&M leaving a lot of questions to be answered.

Would Baylor or Texas Tech have gotten that 12th slot? Would the Big 12 have had to become the Big 14 to accommodate Texas politics?
Who would have been school #14

I would think that Texas politics would still win the day and to avoid an awful 13 team alignment Houston would have gotten to tag along.

This leaves the remaining SWC 3 to join the WAC 16 if that still would have been a thing. If not they would have had to rebuild SWC with the eastern Big West schools (NMSU, North Texas, La Tech, ULL, Ark St).

CUSA would be pretty much the same except South Carolina would take Houston's spot as they wouldnt have many other options, unless they could have pulled off a A10/Big East football spilt like WVU and Va Tech did. They may even get back into the ACC as school #10 if they were lucky.

I think its safe to say though this #12 team championship game rule became the greatest destabilizer in the game

SC probably goes to the Football Big East with Miami, VT, WVU, etc.

In 2011-12 we probably take Missouri's spot or end up back in some version of the ACC.

(09-20-2019 03:45 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(09-19-2019 10:01 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(09-19-2019 12:28 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-19-2019 10:56 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-19-2019 09:43 AM)Wedge Wrote:  The MWC added USU and SJSU when Boise State and SDSU had signed on to Marinatto's goofy Big East football idea. So the MWC didn't add USU and SJSU to get to 12 football teams, they added them to get to 10. Bringing back Boise and SDSU increased their membership to 12 football teams.

Also, if you want to do a "what if the CCG minimum had always been 10 teams and not 12" hypothetical, then you have to go back to the beginning, start by asking whether the SEC would have invited Arkansas and South Carolina even if they could have just staged a CCG with the 10 teams they already had, and go from there.

If we are going to go with that hypothetical, what if the NCAA had just said no to any FBS CCG? Determine your champion any way you want, as long as you stay within the limits of the number of allowable regular season games (which IIRC was 11 at the time). I think we'd have eventually gone to a 12 game regular season, but I doubt we'd have gotten past 10 members in most conferences.

In that case, would the Big 8 have added four Texas schools when the SWC imploded? Or just UT and A&M? Or even UT and Arkansas, who wouldn't have had a new home in the SEC?

The decision to allow a CCG was the real watershed moment.

The NCAA was never going to block FBS CCGs, because of the way it happened. The SEC just found a loophole, and went ahead and did it without asking. The NCAA was never going to push back against the SEC in those circumstances.

The Big 8 did not add schools from Texas because of the CCG. They did it because they were told they could not get a large enough TV contract otherwise. They would have invited only UT and TAMU if Texas state politics had not gotten in the middle of it.

Did the SEC expand to 12 solely to get a championship game? If the NCAA would have allowed them to have a championship game without expansion at 10 teams would they have felt the need to grow?

What if the answer was Yes they only wanted a championship game and were willing to stand pat at 10 if they could do so and have their extra game.

Arkansas would have gone to the Big 12 with Texas and A&M leaving a lot of questions to be answered.

Would Baylor or Texas Tech have gotten that 12th slot? Would the Big 12 have had to become the Big 14 to accommodate Texas politics?
Who would have been school #14

I would think that Texas politics would still win the day and to avoid an awful 13 team alignment Houston would have gotten to tag along.

This leaves the remaining SWC 3 to join the WAC 16 if that still would have been a thing. If not they would have had to rebuild SWC with the eastern Big West schools (NMSU, North Texas, La Tech, ULL, Ark St).

CUSA would be pretty much the same except South Carolina would take Houston's spot as they wouldnt have many other options, unless they could have pulled off a A10/Big East football spilt like WVU and Va Tech did. They may even get back into the ACC as school #10 if they were lucky.

I think its safe to say though this #12 team championship game rule became the greatest destabilizer in the game

SC probably goes to the Football Big East with Miami, VT, WVU, etc.

In 2011-12 we probably take Missouri's spot or end up back in some version of the ACC.

Would the A10 have housed South Carolina's other sports like they did Va Tech and WVU

(09-19-2019 12:26 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  Is there really a number attached to the rule or is either round robin within divisions or round robin for the entire conference? Seems like a conference could have 8, 9 or whatever.

No, there is no longer any number attached to the rule. The 10-team minimum is a bizarrely pervasive message board myth.