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I'm a conservative Republican. Climate change is real.
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #61
RE: I'm a conservative Republican. Climate change is real.
(09-12-2019 08:04 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Climate change is real.


Ive never met anyone who denies the climate changes.

In fact its been far hotter in the past.
09-12-2019 08:29 PM
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Post: #62
RE: I'm a conservative Republican. Climate change is real.
(09-12-2019 08:04 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Climate change is real.

The actions being proposed by climate change activists to deal with the problem are absurd. They will do far more harm to the economy that good to fight climate change. And as for the rest of the world following our lead, when they see the damage we do to our economy, no way they follow.

which is what blows my mind...

why not invest in best method geographically to realize growth potential and allow one vs. the other to duke it out over time, continue to improve pollution vs. population, and let capitalism decide ...

dry stick or gel would've kicked aerosol's arse eventually...

I'm finished with knee-jerk dipshites w/o a clue...

@zeropatience
09-12-2019 08:45 PM
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Post: #63
RE: I'm a conservative Republican. Climate change is real.
(09-12-2019 07:34 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(09-12-2019 01:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-12-2019 05:31 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  JR, if anything knowing we live in the last times greatly increases our faith, our obedience to God and makes us use the time remaining to the fullest.

One of the greatest sources of Joy a Christian can have is knowing the return of Christ is near, if its in our lives or just shortly after. That is not something that takes away from our daily lives, its something that enriches it and all we do in our lives for God or the brethren in Christ.

Nothing will purify your heart, faith and life like knowing Christ could return at any moment. Thats why its called our blessed hope.

It a source of strength for us daily, and not something that we should be ignoring, downplaying or setting aside.

Eric nobody can downplay reality. And focusing on the positive aspects of faith (courage, hope, love, compassion, and service, which is to focus on Christ) is the best approach to faith that my long life has taught me.

The lost who see the positive differences that they may find in their daily lives by watching Christianity in practice is the best witness for them. We all know we are going to die. Most know that they are sinners. What most people need is a reason to live, the courage they need to change the destructive aspects of their own natures, and a focus on something other than themselves.

Many people can't see God until they first see God in the characteristics of those who believe. Doctrine, scripture citing, and the proclamation of excitement over thee return of our Lord are not things that appeal to the lost. The hear impersonal control in doctrine, they lack the base of study to understand scripture, and they don't trust people who are excited about the end of the world.

What reaches the lost is when they are drawn to faith in action. When someone shows them compassion they want to know why. When someone returns kindness for rudeness it makes them look at themselves. When people are happy in the midst of crises in life they want that for themselves. It is faith in practice that changes hearts and it is then changed hearts that want to study scripture, begin to understand doctrine, and then gets excited at the thought of Christ's return.

Where most Christians fail is when they start with doctrine and scripture before they address the physical needs before them, or ignore the spiritual confusion of those for which they are doing something. As with medicine we must address the issues of mind, body, and spirit. They will never want to believe what you have to say until they believe what they see you do, hear you say, and sense that there is no manipulation, and realize there is no quid pro quo, which is how the rest of the world operates.

The greatest obstacle to ministry is in forgetting how you lived, what you thought, and how you treated others before Christ changed you. Yes, Christians love the hope in which they live, but that is wholly alien to the lost. You have to show them that you understand what they facing and experiencing and that there is a better way before they'll ever choose that path, and even then they may not. The dog eat dog and the tough only survive philosophy that teaches self interest before all else is a strong message from a fallen world. But being a friend, making a friend, and showing a friend a different way is the oldest and most patient and proven way to carry out our commission.

The problem with discussing faith on this board (which I'm all for) is that Christianity is a lifelong journey and the perspective from each poster will be personally tailored to where in life they are. I read these discussions and by people's responses can discern what it is most are facing, and why it is they approach it the way they do. I'm just happy they are on the journey. But when they argue that perspective which is only unique to them it leads to confusion.

The old religious joke is about the man who fell into a deep well and caught a root protruding from the side of the shaft before he hit bottom. He prayed to God aloud to rescue him. Finally somebody heard his praying in the well and tossed him a rope. The man rejoiced. And after the experience everyone he met who didn't believe in God he threw into the well. We get so wound around the cord that others must meet God the way that we did that we ignore their unique circumstances and forget that how God reaches them will be just as unique as their circumstances. So to reach them you must get to know and understand them, rather than tossing them into a well.

So all I'm saying here is that when you don't know the other people personally, haven't learned what life has dealt them to get them to the place where you find them, then you don't know what ministry they need that they will relate to. Once they relate then you can teach them the Bible and show them by example a better way. Until then the lessons of the world, which are harsh, will be the only thing they understand because it is the only thing they have ever experienced.

My views about scripture are no different than yours. My vantage point in life however is very different. Yes the faithful will rejoice and find hope in Christ's return. But that isn't helping to win the lost who hear that and without the context of Biblical literacy and witnessing faith in action simply see it as insane because nobody they know would ever see the end of the only world they know and the certain death they will experience as something to rejoice over. Therefore remember that we once felt the same way, and demonstrating how crises in life will not get us down, is essential in reaching them. They want a friend, they want courage, they want hope, and before they love God they must see that God loves them and you, or other Christians, are the most likely means by which that may be experienced. Faith, hope, and love, but the greatest of these is love. Paul did not say that the greatest of these was fear of damnation and the desire for the end of the world. Remember Christ also said that the Kingdom of God was within you. That part of the Kingdom is here and now, and all we need until the Kingdom comes in full. The lost already know suffering and death. What they need is to learn to trust the love enough to develop hope. Then they can relate to the teaching and believe in a loving God.



I see this a lot in some Christians where they have a very hostile and negative reaction to something as simple as understanding the times and seasons in which we live. They always present the false choice that doing do somehow takes ways from our daily lives and witness to others as Christians, when the reality it does the complete opposite of that.

Its not a choice of extremes as you suggest. Its just something we include in our understating of scripture and the world. Christians who are uncomfortable with these things just have a tendency to get very hostile or defense over them. There is nothing you said that is remotely in conflict with understanding the times and seasons we are in, you are creating a conflict between the two that does not exist. There is nothing you said that is devalued by understanding that or knowing in our hearts Christ could possibly return in our lives or in our grandchildren lives.

I would also strongly disagree with saying that speaking of these things or the last days drives the lost away, I have seen with my own eyes that it can draw people to Christ who are lost. People seeking answers and understanding bout this crazy world we live in. Peter Himself said that we have a more sure word of prophecy, of things already fulfilled and things yet to come, and this is a very strong witness to the lost and can bring Christ into their hearts.

We have to be careful not to box the lost all into one path to Christ, they come to him for many different reasons. Different people are different. Some come to him by seeing how we live by faith, some come to him at crucial points of their lives or places of great pain, some come to him from reading the bible and seeing the evidence that the bibel is true.

I find that if you ever even mention these thing or have a conversation about end times things, then those Christian who have a hostile reaction try to criticize you for doing that and nothing else. Even when that is so clearly not the case. Occasionally you will see me mention something about end times events, by more typically I am arguing for Christ through apologetics or evidence, speaking on faith, salvation or doctrinal issues, or offering advice on how Christians should approach different issues.

But something comes up about understanding the times and season and suddenly certain Christians are criticizing me for "wasting time with that stuff" and taking away form other aspects of Christian life, whcih is totally absurd imo.

People have a tendency to attack or get defense over things they are uncomfortable with or don't think they understand well, and I see that a lot when something like this comes up in any context.

The only one defensive here is you. And what I was saying was in no way an attack upon you. I don't disagree with your theology, and I only stated that the actual practice of ministering to those who Christ commanded us to minister to produces the best results when you spend enough time with those to whom you are reaching out to know how best to teach them. Make a friend, be a friend, win a friend to Christ is one the oldest methods for evangelism in the world, and was modeled by the earthly ministry of Christ. He spoke the truth but did so within the context of a relationship or at least a conversation. When he taught the record indicates it was to gatherings and much less personal. When he sent his disciples out he did so to homes and sent them in twos where the intention was personal instruction more than preaching in the sense we know it, although both occurred.

I'm not uncomfortable with death or dying, or judgment. I'm merely pointing out from decades of experience that you reach more people by getting to know them first. When they see consistency in what you do with what you say their receptivity goes up.

What you were describing was from the perspective of the believer. What I was describing was from the perspective of mission. The approach to reaching the lost is not a one size fits all strategy. It's a personal approach geared to what you know the individual will be able to receive and build upon. You think that because I don't use your proscribed method that I've missed the point. I'm saying the method is particular to the person since we are unique creations of God. And that forming a basis of trust is efficacious to reaching people.

The world is impersonal, God is not. The world tells you what to think. God wants a relationship which implies getting to know one another and listening. The world expects you to fit its mold. God has no mold since all of God's creations are unique.

This is the second time I've described alternative means to accomplish what you lay out as objectives and it is the second time you have reacted defensively.

I wish you well with your ministry. All I've been saying is that you win people by caring about them, understanding them, listening to them, and modeling for them Christ. Then with prayer and talking to them directly about their concerns introducing them to appropriate scripture and through it to God.

Most folks understand they will die. They experience the growing turmoil in society. And they know that the Earth will end. What they want is to know God now. Receive some of His blessings now. And learn how to work for him now. Most really aren't in denial about death, nor are they mature enough to welcome the end times.

Christ said that he came that we might have life and have it abundantly. Abundant life is the reward of Christian living. It's not an abundance in possessions or a life free of crisis. But it is a life that is not moved by any of it because it lives with its own purpose, its own sense of being blessed different from the blessing of things which isn't really a blessing at all, and confident in their destiny.

When you encounter Christians that focus on ministry now but who are disparaging of dwelling on the end times, it is because for 2000 years people have been using the end times to try to scare people into a relationship with God and since none of us know when the end times will actually occur it has lost its impact.

Eric the seasons have been observable in all eras of history. It is true that the Jews have returned to Israel, but the Jews who did return are 85% secular. Does that fulfill the prophecy? Maybe, maybe not.

People want to know how to have assurance and peace in their lives now. They want a God they can have a personal relationship with. And they want to know that life can be spiritually abundant now. So ministry is bolstered by helping them to learn how to relate to God, how to read his scripture, and how to model Christ's life for others. That's why it is called shepherding. But doing that takes time. That's why a community of believers (not necessarily an organized church) helps. That way they have many different examples to draw from and many different experiences to connect with, but all of them in relationship with Christ.

I'm a believer in eschatology. But I look for ministry in the existential and believe that modeling Christ is a better (not the only) approach to helping people develop a relationship with God. As I have said before there are as many approaches and tools in Gods work chest as there are people he has created. We need to try to approximate as many approaches and familiarize ourselves with as many uses of those tools as we legitimately can, and we need to recognize when another might be better prepared to reach a particular person than we are. People listen to those who have been through what they feel they have been through. It's called a testimony.
And those are as varied as the people who have them, but similar enough to be heard and believed by many, though not all. It's a matter of knowing them well enough and knowing other Christians well enough to know which tools to use and when. That is why there is strength in numbers when there is a unity of purpose. Christ did say where two or more are gathered in my name there I will be also.

I don't think you are off base and you should do what you do best, but be cognizant that there are many other approaches and depending upon the person you are trying to reach other approaches might be more successful. And that is not a rebuke but only advice.
09-12-2019 09:04 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #64
RE: I'm a conservative Republican. Climate change is real.
(09-12-2019 09:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The only one defensive here is you. And what I was saying was in no way an attack upon you. I don't disagree with your theology, and I only stated that the actual practice of ministering to those who Christ commanded us to minister to produces the best results when you spend enough time with those to whom you are reaching out to know how best to teach them. Make a friend, be a friend, win a friend to Christ is one the oldest methods for evangelism in the world, and was modeled by the earthly ministry of Christ. He spoke the truth but did so within the context of a relationship or at least a conversation. When he taught the record indicates it was to gatherings and much less personal. When he sent his disciples out he did so to homes and sent them in twos where the intention was personal instruction more than preaching in the sense we know it, although both occurred.

I'm not uncomfortable with death or dying, or judgment. I'm merely pointing out from decades of experience that you reach more people by getting to know them first. When they see consistency in what you do with what you say their receptivity goes up.

What you were describing was from the perspective of the believer. What I was describing was from the perspective of mission. The approach to reaching the lost is not a one size fits all strategy. It's a personal approach geared to what you know the individual will be able to receive and build upon. You think that because I don't use your proscribed method that I've missed the point. I'm saying the method is particular to the person since we are unique creations of God. And that forming a basis of trust is efficacious to reaching people.

The world is impersonal, God is not. The world tells you what to think. God wants a relationship which implies getting to know one another and listening. The world expects you to fit its mold. God has no mold since all of God's creations are unique.

This is the second time I've described alternative means to accomplish what you lay out as objectives and it is the second time you have reacted defensively.

I wish you well with your ministry. All I've been saying is that you win people by caring about them, understanding them, listening to them, and modeling for them Christ. Then with prayer and talking to them directly about their concerns introducing them to appropriate scripture and through it to God.


I just don't get how you are making this giant leap from knowing the times we live in in respect to climate change to not creating relationships with people we witness to or caring about them. How did you jump from point A to point B there?

How does one cancel out the other? What does one even have to do with the other?

A person says we should understand the times we live in respect to climate change and then you make the giant leap to suggesting that keeps us form caring about others or not creating relationships with them? Huh?

Those two things are totally unrelated.

Its seems to me you are off on totally separate subjects from anything I stated in my previous posts.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2019 10:06 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
09-12-2019 09:25 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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RE: I'm a conservative Republican. Climate change is real.
(09-12-2019 09:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Eric the seasons have been observable in all eras of history. It is true that the Jews have returned to Israel, but the Jews who did return are 85% secular. Does that fulfill the prophecy? Maybe, maybe not.


Yes it does because prophecy said they would return as secular, lost people in the last days.

But again I don't see what in the world this has to do with anything I said. You are connecting and bringing in things that have nothing at all to do with what i said. How does about Israel have ANYTHING to do with climate change or understanding we are in the latter days? How do you make the leap from climate change and understand the times to talking about Israel in prophecy?

It just seems to me you are way off in left field and all over the place with things that do not relate to anything I said at all.

Mostly all I talk about here is the evidence of how the bible is real and learning to read and understand the bible. Trying to show the relevant scripture to different topics here.

I did not tell you to use my method, not did I criticize you for not using my methods. We each have our own unique set of skills God gifted us to use. We each need to use them.

That is actually a point I have made several times here as of late.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2019 10:37 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
09-12-2019 09:34 PM
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Post: #66
RE: I'm a conservative Republican. Climate change is real.
(09-12-2019 10:02 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(09-12-2019 09:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I'm a believer in eschatology. But I look for ministry in the existential and believe that modeling Christ is a better (not the only) approach to helping people develop a relationship with God. As I have said before there are as many approaches and tools in Gods work chest as there are people he has created. We need to try to approximate as many approaches and familiarize ourselves with as many uses of those tools as we legitimately can, and we need to recognize when another might be better prepared to reach a particular person than we are. People listen to those who have been through what they feel they have been through. It's called a testimony.
And those are as varied as the people who have them, but similar enough to be heard and believed by many, though not all. It's a matter of knowing them well enough and knowing other Christians well enough to know which tools to use and when. That is why there is strength in numbers when there is a unity of purpose. Christ did say where two or more are gathered in my name there I will be also.



Eschatology does not cancel out building relationships or any other aspect of a ministry.

This is something I see a lot in some Christians and some denominations today. Just a passing mention of something related to eschatology triggers these long diatribes about what we really need to be focusing on and how that is somehow taking away from other aspects of a ministry.

Its no secret that most of my posts here are about apologetics and evidence for the bible, or different doctrines that come up. But sometimes I mention eschatology as well and there is always someone who gives a long diatribe about how that takes away form other things and how I should be focusing on other things. It never fails, it happens every time.

So there is a bit of a defensive or hostile reaction against those things when they come up. Not just here but in Christianity in general in some circles.

Now I am not offended by this it all. So I don't want to give the wrong impression here. I'm just perplexed about how you leap into all those other conclusions and issues that did not relate to my comments at all.

In Deuteronomy 30:1-5 Moses says that they shall return with all their heart. Which of course they didn't do. They may have sought the land with all their heart but not God.


As to your 2nd post:

I was specifically responding to the apologetic and doctrinal approach, but doing so in light of the Great Commission. That's why I said your perspective was one of personal faith and mine was of mission. I don't see Christianity as compartmentalized, but rather holistic. It is a ministry to the whole person within their sitz im leben and with all disciplines involved. And all I was doing was noting that the most effective ministry is done at the person's level of need and understanding. From there in Christ all things are possible.

If I appear to you as all over the place it is because of this perspective, and my reaction is to what through experience I have found to be the most winsome approach to the lost and it starts with their level of need, their level of understanding, and leads through their faith development to committing themselves to Christ. It's not Paul's blinding light, but it is no less valid. People have to experience grace before they can learn to accept it, or offer it and the world doesn't teach it, but rather the opposite.

I was merely trying to get you to consider that conforming to doctrine and beginning with eschatology is not the only way to soteriology and that not all people can possibly be reached the same way. But if that is what you do well then by all means continue. And quit projecting everyone into categories that may not apply to them simply because you don't use their approach to mission, or mis-perceive the perspective of their remarks. And if somebody says something that is contrary to the teachings of man it is not false teaching. If they contradict scripture the term applies. But man's interpretation of scripture to suit his own designs or beliefs if contradicted is not false. An example of a common false teaching is that all shall be saved. The Bible contradicts that in many places and in uncontested language. Millennial arguments have never fallen into that category. God is the sole judge. It was Christ that said in vain do they worship me teaching as my doctrines the precepts of men, and that would include English Biblical scholars in the 1880's.

Now back to your first point:

As for your view that when the Jews return to Israel that they would be converted to Christ while that is attributed to various New Testament texts it was a position pushed by Puritans in 1840 and not directly linked to the prophesy of Moses. As Millennial discussions (pre and post) were underway in England in the later 1800's this view took off to the extent that is widely held in belief but doesn't have a solid Biblical underpinning without doing mental gymnastics.

1948 is an interesting year with regard to Deuteronomy but Moses's prophecy hasn't been fulfilled until that return is with their whole heart to God. While I'm not scoffing at this prophecy, the pre and post Millennialist's views of the late 1800's are far from mainstream Biblical interpretation. Hence the reading of Revelation in which it is plain that everyone suffers the first death (those who have gone before and have died, and those caught up with them in the air) but they as Paul would put it become new creations in a new heaven and earth. And those who have eschewed Christ suffer the second death, separation from God.

But I don't care about these kinds of differences as long as the primary mission is saving the lost and such esoteric discussions are saved for debate with other theologians. It is after all the essence of arguing about how man angels can dance on the head of a pin. God didn't ask us for fanciful arguments about things that only God can do or fully comprehend. He asked us to tend his people and seek the lost. I would call that the Christian KISS approach. Keep It Simple Stupid. Debating the Millennial accomplishes neither. Focusing on the end times is jumping the gun until the lost are returned to the fold and have time to study and debate such things.

How God will do what God does and when is not our mission. Tending his people and returning the lost is the only thing Christ tasked us with.

But that's my perspective, mission. If your's is eschatology then viva la difference.

And note I'm still not finding fault with your theology, just suggesting that you meet those who are lost where they are with their lives and start working with them there. When they trust your relationship to Christ, and see Christ in your actions, they will be open to your teaching and to Christ. At least that is my experience.

But I shall move on and wish you God's speed in your mission, and health and blessings in your life, and may God grant you to see the fruit of your labor.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2019 11:56 PM by JRsec.)
09-12-2019 11:39 PM
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RE: I'm a conservative Republican. Climate change is real.
(09-12-2019 11:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  In Deuteronomy 30:1-5 Moses says that they shall return with all their heart. Which of course they didn't do. They may have sought the land with all their heart but not God.


Well hold on there you left out the prophecies of Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Zechariah, Zechariah, Joel and a host of others that clearly lay out them returning to land first and NOT being cleansed of their sin, but them being cleansed of their sin AFTER they return to the land.

Ezekiel 36:24-25


24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 THEN will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.


Its pretty clear stuff, they return to the land, THEN at some point after that turn to God with their whole heart, not the other way around.

Prophet after prophet in the OT places them back in the land first, then finally turn to Christ as their Messiah. More specifically at some point during the great tribulation/time of Jacobs trouble. Check out Ezekiel 39:21-29 or Zechariah 14. Its pretty clear they are back in the land still in sin, then return to God after some horrific events.

So yes, all the prophets say one day Israel will return to God with all their heart, but other events are prophesied to happen first. Quoting Duet 30 in this context would be like one of the pharisees quoting a verse about Messiah reigning as king, and saying that is evidence Jesus is not Messiah. Well Jesus will one day reign as king, but your putting the cart before the horse and skipping over a lot of other scripture.

I can point out a lot of other verses and passages that show this plainly if that helps. Its repeated many times in the OT prophets. Again, check out Ezekiel 39:21-29, Zechariah 14, Jeremiah 30 for starters. The text in Jeremiah says repeatedly that we will consider it perfectly in the last days. In other words its supposed to become more clear in the last days. Which is what is happening.
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2019 06:04 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
09-13-2019 01:44 AM
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RE: I'm a conservative Republican. Climate change is real.
(09-12-2019 11:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  As to your 2nd post:

I was specifically responding to the apologetic and doctrinal approach, but doing so in light of the Great Commission. That's why I said your perspective was one of personal faith and mine was of mission. I don't see Christianity as compartmentalized, but rather holistic. It is a ministry to the whole person within their sitz im leben and with all disciplines involved. And all I was doing was noting that the most effective ministry is done at the person's level of need and understanding. From there in Christ all things are possible.

If I appear to you as all over the place it is because of this perspective, and my reaction is to what through experience I have found to be the most winsome approach to the lost and it starts with their level of need, their level of understanding, and leads through their faith development to committing themselves to Christ. It's not Paul's blinding light, but it is no less valid. People have to experience grace before they can learn to accept it, or offer it and the world doesn't teach it, but rather the opposite.

I was merely trying to get you to consider that conforming to doctrine and beginning with eschatology is not the only way to soteriology and that not all people can possibly be reached the same way. But if that is what you do well then by all means continue. And quit projecting everyone into categories that may not apply to them simply because you don't use their approach to mission, or mis-perceive the perspective of their remarks. And if somebody says something that is contrary to the teachings of man it is not false teaching. If they contradict scripture the term applies. But man's interpretation of scripture to suit his own designs or beliefs if contradicted is not false. An example of a common false teaching is that all shall be saved. The Bible contradicts that in many places and in uncontested language. Millennial arguments have never fallen into that category. God is the sole judge. It was Christ that said in vain do they worship me teaching as my doctrines the precepts of men, and that would include English Biblical scholars in the 1880's.



I understand fully what you are saying my friend, I just don't understand how you go from me taking about knowing the times and season we live in respect to Climate change and jumping all the way to ministry and theological approaches to ministry and building relationships with people. None of those things had ANYTHING to do with understanding the times we live in and climate change.

I mean that is pretty extreme leap and change of subject there.

If you have been reading my posts here the last few years you should know my main focus is doctrines, salvation and apologetics concerning the Bible. There have been a few recent threads in other other forum on eschatology and I simply mentioned remembering the times and seasons in relation to climate change and now you are saying I base my entire ministry on eschatology.

This is something I see way too much from some Christians today. You can spend an entire year discussing doctrines or salvation by faith, and as soon as you make a few points touching eschatology they are accusing you of talking about nothing but eschatology and ignoring everything else and yada, yada, yada. I see this over and over again from some Christians and now you are doing the same things here. You are now trying to talk to me about branching out and not basing everything on eschatology, when I clearly spend most of my time here on doctrines, salvation by faith and apologetics. There have just been some recent threads on eschatology in the other forum.

There is a big difference between simply including some eschatology and obsessing over it and nothing else. I am simply trying to include it because so many churches are completely sanitizing themselves from it entirely, and thus many Christians are very ignorant of the subject at all.
I did not go to any extreme on it at all, nor is it the basis of my ministry. Its just something I try to include.

If you don't like to ever include or talk about it or study it then fine, but the last thing you should be doing is criticizing others for including it or influencing them to avoid it. It was Jesus Himself who gave an entire sermon on end time events and instructed us to watch for those events and not be deceived. When you suggest Jesus said stay away from those things or don't ever waste time of them that is simply not what the NT says.

Interestingly enough Revelation is the one book in the Bible that says there is a special blessing for those the read and KEEP the words of that prophecy. But you are saying just the opposite, that Christians should not waste their time on those things and they do you no good. But that is literally the complete opposite of what both Revelation and Jesus say.

Revelation 1:3 -
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and KEEP those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Revelation 22:7 -
Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.


So I think its fair to say you are a little off base being so negative on reading, studying or discussing eschatology. We are clearly encouraged to do so by both Jesus and the entire NT. You are not personally required to, but I think its wrong for you to have such a negative, criticizing attitude to others for including those things in their studies or discussions. And its in direct conflict with what Jesus and the NT said about it.
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2019 06:50 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
09-13-2019 02:03 AM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #69
RE: I'm a conservative Republican. Climate change is real.
JR, I think one thing that is happening is you are confusing some aspects of apologetics with eschatology. Or to be more accurate the context I am using them in. I bring up Israel often as an apologetics subject to illustrate the Bible is real, its a very strong point of evidence that the bible is real based on events that happen 2000 years ago, and events that happened in 1948.

But that is not discussing eschatology, that is apologetics.

If anyone is confused by the terms we are using here eschatology is the study of end time events in the bible. Apologetics is the study of the evidence for the bible, evidence that proves it as real.

Eschatology would be diving into things like the 2nd coming, tribulation, the rapture, the 1000 year reign, or what will happen with Israel in the future, etc. Future events that have not yet happened. When I am discussing 70 AD, the diaspora or 1948 its usually in the context of apologetics, not eschatology.

There is a whole other side to the prophets that is useful for apologetics and giving people evidence the bible is real. A lot of Christians tend to conflate the two together when they are not the same thing at all.

We live in a society where we are not introducing the gospel and Christ to people. They already know who He is and what He did. Most people are not asking what is Christianity but WHY should I believe in it? What is the evidence? And a lot of people are open to evidence if they see some. It plants a strong seed in their heart that can produce fruits at later times.

Most people have been deceived into thinking there is no evidence for the bible at all, and it just like all other religions and based on 100% blind faith. But this is not the case at all, in fact the Bible is the one religion and book in the whole world that has tangible proof and evidence that can begin to change people hearts.

But pointing out the evidence is not eschatology, its apologetics, and its a strong witness for the Gospel and Christ.

They are 2 very different things. I think when you see me point out the specific evidence surrounding Israel (both 2000 years a go and 1948), you misunderstand that as eschatology. That is a very, very common reaction I see a lot today with some Christians. They see Israel or see someone mention a prophet and they instantly view everything said as eschatology from that moment on.

But the Prophets are one of the strongest points we can point to for evidence in apologetics. And its got nothing to do with discussing or guessing at future events.
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2019 05:03 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
09-13-2019 02:18 AM
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Eagleaidaholic Offline
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Post: #70
RE: I'm a conservative Republican. Climate change is real.
Oh, I'm sorry. I thought this was a discussion about climate change. Carry on fellas.
09-13-2019 07:47 AM
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BobL Offline
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Post: #71
RE: I'm a conservative Republican. Climate change is real.
(09-11-2019 09:49 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 08:04 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I'd like to see one single link to a plan that the Trump Administration has identified as a potential solution. I can easily point out thousands of links to Democratic plans. And arguing about whether humans can have an impact on making a change is useless. If we try something and it doesn't help make a change, that's still better than doing nothing but complaining about China, India and Africa.

When China, India, and Africa are going to be putting out the majority of greenhouse gases, then it makes no sense to do drastic things elsewhere and pretending those changes will equate to something that matters. If the U.S. were able to go to zero emissions, what effect would it have on worldwide levels when nothing is done with the above?

We live in a world of finite resources, as in money. If we spend X number of dollars on a climate change initiative that turns out to be worthless, that is money that couldn't be spent elsewhere on other worthy needs/causes. Better to throw money down a climate change rathole that to do a clean water project in Africa, for example?

Lead by example,

oh and there is this:

https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/sc...f-co2.html
09-13-2019 09:08 AM
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chrisd11 Offline
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Post: #72
RE: I'm a conservative Republican. Climate change is real.
"Global cooling" which was changed to "Global Warming" which was changed to "Climate Change" is one of the biggest scams ever perpetrated on the world. It's part of a socialist/communist agenda to gain control over populations.

Climate changes. It's what it does. We have nothing to do with it.

Any conservative who accepts the lefts' narrative on this and argues on their terms is a fool.

It should be laughed at and completely rejected as a "thing".

It's total bull****.
09-13-2019 10:12 PM
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