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Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
I have heard that the Texas legislature could theoretically pass a law that requires UT and A&M to resume their annual football series. While I don't doubt that such a law could be passed, is there any precedent for it, in any state? Are there any NCAA schools that are (or have been) legally mandated to play one another?
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2019 07:30 AM by Nerdlinger.)
09-10-2019 07:24 AM
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49RFootballNow Offline
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RE: Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politi...89749.html

Quote:He also pushed legislation that required state university football teams to play other in-state teams in an effort to get East Carolina University back on North Carolina and N.C. State’s schedules. The legislation ended a nearly decade-long drought between the Wolfpack and the Pirates and an even longer one between the Tar Heels and their eastern neighbors.

Previously, both UNC and N.C. State played ECU regularly, with the State-East Carolina rivalry developing into the fiercest in North Carolina. The 1986 game attracted 58,650, the largest crowd in Carter-Finley Stadium history.

But in 1987, ECU fans rushed onto the field after a 32-14 Pirates’ win over the Wolfpack, causing thousands of dollars in damage and several injuries. A week later, NCSU officials announced they were discontinuing the series.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2019 07:30 AM by 49RFootballNow.)
09-10-2019 07:29 AM
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indianasniff Offline
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Post: #3
Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
Ohio State once had a mandate to play in state schools after getting state assistance for a stadium renovation I recall


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09-10-2019 08:30 AM
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RE: Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
When the Southern Conference suspended Clemson in 1952 the South Carolina Legislature passed a bill mandating that Clemson and South Carolina must play in the 1952 season.
09-10-2019 09:25 AM
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10thMountain Offline
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RE: Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
It’s already been tried a couple times but it never makes it out of committee.

And that’s good. This state has plenty of real problems and college FB should not be taking up its time.

Not to mention is the fact that since all TX college athletic departments are required to be privately funded and can’t receive or use state funding they are actually private entities, so there is a real legal challenge to this as well.

And of course

Never play them ever again.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2019 10:08 AM by 10thMountain.)
09-10-2019 09:45 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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RE: Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
I believe the Alabama Legislature threatened to withhold funding from Alabama and Auburn back in the 40s before the series resumed in 1948.

I don't think a law was ever passed, but the threat was enough.
09-10-2019 09:53 AM
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RE: Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
It is going to depend on the state. The state's are the laboratories of democracy and aren't always consistent.

In 1987 the Arkansas House of Representatives voted for a resolution requiring UArk and AState to play annually. They then moved to reconsider and defeated the proposal. The whole point was to simply express their opinion that the two should play in football (they still have not).

My legal opinion is that the legislature in Arkansas cannot directly mandate a game. A law saying the two shall meet would be unconstitutional under the Arkansas Constitution. The Arkansas Supreme Court has interpreted an amendment related to creating and abolishing boards and commissions as restricting the power of the legislature to dictate normal policies and procedures delegated to the various boards and commissions. In this case the scheduling of athletic contests is a routine activity done by employees employed by and designated by the board of trustees to have those powers.

Now could the state say you only get X percent of your funding if you play football and don't play at least one game per year against another in-state school in your division? Yeah I think the spending power would probably be OK, but a straight mandate I don't think is possible in Arkansas.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2019 09:55 AM by arkstfan.)
09-10-2019 09:53 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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RE: Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
(09-10-2019 09:45 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  It’s already been tried a couple times but it never makes it out of committee.

And that’s good. This state has plenty of real problems and college FB should not be taking up its time.
M
Not to mention is the fact that since all TX college athletic departments are required to be privately funded and can’t receive or use state funding they are actually private entities, so there is a real legal challenge to this as well.

And of course

Never play them ever again.

I agree that forcing the teams to play would probably be outside their purview although technically the Legislature could threaten to withhold funding until "certain outcomes" occur. Other states have done it. It's a legal pathway, but the question would be in regard to the political will.

States do have bigger problems, but there is also the economic impact of large state schools playing one another. In other words, states do tend to take up even small matters if it's a guarantee of positive economic impact.

Nonetheless, it comes down to political will.
09-10-2019 09:59 AM
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10thMountain Offline
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RE: Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
Possibly but I think it’s more difficult when you’re trying to compel a private entity by threatening public funding. Plus given the less than competitive rate they already fund the Flagships at now, I seriously doubt they’d threaten that too.

But hey who knows, politicians do dumber stuff than that all the time
09-10-2019 10:12 AM
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RE: Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
Personally, I could get on board with a state mandating any in-state public P5 when scheduling buy-in games must first attempt to schedule an in-state public FCS and G5 before going to other options. Helps with funding.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2019 11:46 AM by AppfanInCAAland.)
09-10-2019 11:45 AM
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RE: Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
(09-10-2019 11:45 AM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  Personally, I could get on board with a state mandating any in-state public P5 when scheduling buy-in games must first attempt to schedule an in-state public FCS and G5 before going to other options. Helps with funding.

The in-state nut has been cracked in Arkansas with UArk agreeing to play schools in the UArk system. Doesn't do anything for AState or Central Arkansas but UAPB and UALR are getting some games and UALR won a baseball game over them and this season UA and UALR will meet at Verizon Arena in women's basketball that will be the biggest women's game since AState ripped UA in the Women's NIT before a sold out crowd of over 10,000 in Jonesboro.
09-10-2019 11:54 AM
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Post: #12
RE: Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
(09-10-2019 11:45 AM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  Personally, I could get on board with a state mandating any in-state public P5 when scheduling buy-in games must first attempt to schedule an in-state public FCS and G5 before going to other options. Helps with funding.

Arizona has that with UA/ASU and NAU. They aren't required to play NAU, but if they play a FCS team, NAU has right of first refusal on alternating years.
09-10-2019 11:58 AM
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All Rams All The Time Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
Colorado State and Colorado have been playing annually since 1998. 'Mandated' is a strong word, and I'm thinking both sides signed contracts/schedules thru 2020. After that the series takes a break for a few years...home-n-home...break for a few years...home-n-home.

I like the annual game, when both teams are pretty good. Both schools have fielded weak teams for ~10 years or more. There have been a couple of exceptions to that, but overall, weak teams have been the norm. Our current coach is now 3-9 against rivals since his arrival and 0-4 against Boise (despite a preposterous lead blown in the game's final minutes of a home game in 2017).
09-10-2019 12:23 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
(09-10-2019 07:24 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  I have heard that the Texas legislature could theoretically pass a law that requires UT and A&M to resume their annual football series. While I don't doubt that such a law could be passed, is there any precedent for it, in any state? Are there any NCAA schools that are (or have been) legally mandated to play one another?

Auburn and Alabama were mandated ("encouraged" but if we didn't then likely apportionment would have been withheld) by state legislative action to resume play following a long hiatus just shortly after WWII. The series ceased after the 1907 game and resumed because of the legislature in 1947. Reasons for the cessation were on field and off field violence stemming from Alabama trying to close down Auburn as a school. Auburn had dominated the early series. The official excuse was per diem pay amounts given to players in the early days. But Alabama tried 3 times in the interim (I think the last was in the 20's) to close Auburn. They insisted that they rule over the other schools in the state. That notion which had been granted them a few times was finally defeated. But Auburn had appropriations withheld from them until sometime in the thirties and afterward received less than Alabama due to a House controlled by Alabama law grads (Auburn doesn't have a law school). It was the 1980's before Auburn could get its own trustees appointed.

So there was ample reason for the animus between the two schools that supersede football.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2019 12:39 PM by JRsec.)
09-10-2019 12:37 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
(09-10-2019 10:12 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Possibly but I think it’s more difficult when you’re trying to compel a private entity by threatening public funding. Plus given the less than competitive rate they already fund the Flagships at now, I seriously doubt they’d threaten that too.

But hey who knows, politicians do dumber stuff than that all the time

I grew up with the SWC. I remember the Texas vs A&M game being a huge part of the college football season back then. I hate that we seem to be moving farther and farther from the college football traditions I remember as a kid. I'd have no problem with the Texas legislature requiring its two biggest public universities to play one another. I honestly think both fan bases would end up really enjoying the annual game (I know for a fact they sure as heck used to love it). That said---I like the idea because the game holds a great deal of nostalgic attraction for me---but thats just one persons feeling toward the game.

Your absolutely correct--there are more important issues----this is not life and death. Lol---of course we are talking about a state that took up up half their legislative session with the pressing issue of who could urinate in what bathroom last time around....so you never know.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2019 01:55 PM by Attackcoog.)
09-10-2019 01:09 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
(09-10-2019 12:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 07:24 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  I have heard that the Texas legislature could theoretically pass a law that requires UT and A&M to resume their annual football series. While I don't doubt that such a law could be passed, is there any precedent for it, in any state? Are there any NCAA schools that are (or have been) legally mandated to play one another?

Auburn and Alabama were mandated ("encouraged" but if we didn't then likely apportionment would have been withheld) by state legislative action to resume play following a long hiatus just shortly after WWII. The series ceased after the 1907 game and resumed because of the legislature in 1947. Reasons for the cessation were on field and off field violence stemming from Alabama trying to close down Auburn as a school. Auburn had dominated the early series. The official excuse was per diem pay amounts given to players in the early days. But Alabama tried 3 times in the interim (I think the last was in the 20's) to close Auburn. They insisted that they rule over the other schools in the state. That notion which had been granted them a few times was finally defeated. But Auburn had appropriations withheld from them until sometime in the thirties and afterward received less than Alabama due to a House controlled by Alabama law grads (Auburn doesn't have a law school). It was the 1980's before Auburn could get its own trustees appointed.

So there was ample reason for the animus between the two schools that supersede football.

Thanks for the history lesson, JR! I didn't know Bama tried to give Auburn the UAB treatment first...
09-10-2019 01:34 PM
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RE: Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
(09-10-2019 01:09 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 10:12 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Possibly but I think it’s more difficult when you’re trying to compel a private entity by threatening public funding. Plus given the less than competitive rate they already fund the Flagships at now, I seriously doubt they’d threaten that too.

But hey who knows, politicians do dumber stuff than that all the time

I grew up with the SWC. I remember growing up with the Texas vs A&M game being a huge part of the college football season. I hate that we seem to be moving farther and farther from college football I remember as a kid. I'd have no problem with the Texas legislature requiring its two biggest public universities to play one another. I honestly think both fan bases would end up really enjoying the annual game (I know for a fact they sure as heck used to love it). That said---I like the idea because the game holds a great deal of nostalgic attraction for me---but thats just one persons feeling toward the game.

Your absolutely correct--there are more important issues----this is not life and death. Lol---of course we are talking about a state that took up up half their legislative session with the pressing issue of who could urinate in what bathroom last time around....so you never know.

I believe it's called "killing the goose that lays the golden eggs".
09-10-2019 01:35 PM
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RE: Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
(09-10-2019 01:09 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 10:12 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Possibly but I think it’s more difficult when you’re trying to compel a private entity by threatening public funding. Plus given the less than competitive rate they already fund the Flagships at now, I seriously doubt they’d threaten that too.

But hey who knows, politicians do dumber stuff than that all the time

I grew up with the SWC. I remember growing up with the Texas vs A&M game being a huge part of the college football season. I hate that we seem to be moving farther and farther from college football I remember as a kid. I'd have no problem with the Texas legislature requiring its two biggest public universities to play one another. I honestly think both fan bases would end up really enjoying the annual game (I know for a fact they sure as heck used to love it). That said---I like the idea because the game holds a great deal of nostalgic attraction for me---but thats just one persons feeling toward the game.

Your absolutely correct--there are more important issues----this is not life and death. Lol---of course we are talking about a state that took up up half their legislative session with the pressing issue of who could urinate in what bathroom last time around....so you never know.

I think we are getting very close to the point where a significant number of colleges could hoist the jolly roger and declare independence from the state and do just fine without state revenue. They'd have to change how they allocate some of their endowment revenue but it is very feasible.

The greatest surprise to me in realignment was the Big XII not preserving OU-Nebraska. I would expect Nebraska would have still defected but it would have been a much tougher conversation, plus have to wonder what the value of the Big XII contract would have been have OU-Nebraska been every year instead of rotating on and off.
09-10-2019 01:47 PM
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RE: Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
(09-10-2019 09:45 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  It’s already been tried a couple times but it never makes it out of committee.

And that’s good. This state has plenty of real problems and college FB should not be taking up its time.

Not to mention is the fact that since all TX college athletic departments are required to be privately funded and can’t receive or use state funding they are actually private entities, so there is a real legal challenge to this as well.

And of course

Never play them ever again.

Well North Texas' President wrote a check for $15,192,262 last year to fund the shortfall. This must have taken some serious accounting tricks to claim that was not tax payer money.

Texas State the check was for $8,482,155; UTEP it was $13,018,995; UTSA $6,371,998; UR-RGV $4,568,351

We have a similar law in California, but our schools also have the Presidents and Chancellors writing checks of similar sizes. They also use the accounting trick of claiming the money comes from bucket X, not the State funding.But of course it's all the same pool of money.
09-10-2019 01:52 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: Legally mandated play between NCAA schools
(09-10-2019 01:47 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 01:09 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 10:12 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Possibly but I think it’s more difficult when you’re trying to compel a private entity by threatening public funding. Plus given the less than competitive rate they already fund the Flagships at now, I seriously doubt they’d threaten that too.

But hey who knows, politicians do dumber stuff than that all the time

I grew up with the SWC. I remember growing up with the Texas vs A&M game being a huge part of the college football season. I hate that we seem to be moving farther and farther from college football I remember as a kid. I'd have no problem with the Texas legislature requiring its two biggest public universities to play one another. I honestly think both fan bases would end up really enjoying the annual game (I know for a fact they sure as heck used to love it). That said---I like the idea because the game holds a great deal of nostalgic attraction for me---but thats just one persons feeling toward the game.

Your absolutely correct--there are more important issues----this is not life and death. Lol---of course we are talking about a state that took up up half their legislative session with the pressing issue of who could urinate in what bathroom last time around....so you never know.

I think we are getting very close to the point where a significant number of colleges could hoist the jolly roger and declare independence from the state and do just fine without state revenue. They'd have to change how they allocate some of their endowment revenue but it is very feasible.

The greatest surprise to me in realignment was the Big XII not preserving OU-Nebraska. I would expect Nebraska would have still defected but it would have been a much tougher conversation, plus have to wonder what the value of the Big XII contract would have been have OU-Nebraska been every year instead of rotating on and off.

Idk. That seems pretty far fetched to me. These schools are essentially arms of state government. The presidents and even coaches are state employees. I don't see how they could declare independence anymore than the Department of Public Safety can declare independence from the State of Texas. That said---the way I see it---they could be "granted" independence if the legislature believe its in the best interests of the people of Texas---but I dont see how these schools could unilaterally elect to just "declare" their independence without legislative action.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2019 02:05 PM by Attackcoog.)
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