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Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
(09-11-2019 07:38 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 07:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 05:49 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 05:20 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  
(09-09-2019 04:00 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  These rankings are sort of a joke anyway - haven't a ton of schools been caught openly manipulating the rankings by giving themselves anonymous reviews and lying about student/teacher ratios?
Oh, like Northeastern and Oklahoma?

Others who manipulated data includes:
UTSA
Akron
Boston University
UC Riverside
Bowling Green

Top ways in how they manipulate their data

Thanks for the links.

It’s not even just that, lists like these drastically favor smaller schools. If South Carolina for example decided to cut their enrollment in half by eliminating the bottom 50% of each class their average test scores and faculty/student ratio would skyrocket. But does being more exclusive somehow make the school any better? They’re still offering the same programs, the same professors, and the same research output

I think "like these" is important, because it shows that it's not just USNWR. Heck it's everybody.

I mean, is there a list of colleges in existence that doesn't have Harvard and Stanford above South Carolina and USF?

I don't think so, and that's just because the consensus everywhere is that the former are better schools.

It’s not everybody. There are ranking lists that aren’t simply rankings of prestige and household income of undergrads. See Washington Monthly as an example. It just isn’t as well-known as USNWR. After the extremely small list of enormously prestigious and enormously well endowed universities (Stanford, Harvard and a small number of others) there isn’t an obvious group of inherently “better” aka more prestigious schools.

If I live in SC and my child wants wants to be a teacher, she’s far better off attending USCe than Boston College though BC is more prestigious than USC. People are really damn dumb if they focus on general prestige rather than intended major and price. I’ve got a daughter attending UGA who was admitted to Emory for that specific reason. She’ll have no debt when she graduates from UGA which is extremely valuable and she’ll have no difficulty getting into a good grad school from UGA but Emory is more more prestigious.

The prestige factor really only matters for recruiting in a handful of industries like big tech, big consulting, and big banking like investment banking. The other virtue of the elite private schools is the networking that occurs. But if you're looking to be a teacher, the more affordable option makes sense.
09-11-2019 09:24 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
(09-11-2019 09:24 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 07:38 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 07:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 05:49 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 05:20 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  Oh, like Northeastern and Oklahoma?

Others who manipulated data includes:
UTSA
Akron
Boston University
UC Riverside
Bowling Green

Top ways in how they manipulate their data

Thanks for the links.

It’s not even just that, lists like these drastically favor smaller schools. If South Carolina for example decided to cut their enrollment in half by eliminating the bottom 50% of each class their average test scores and faculty/student ratio would skyrocket. But does being more exclusive somehow make the school any better? They’re still offering the same programs, the same professors, and the same research output

I think "like these" is important, because it shows that it's not just USNWR. Heck it's everybody.

I mean, is there a list of colleges in existence that doesn't have Harvard and Stanford above South Carolina and USF?

I don't think so, and that's just because the consensus everywhere is that the former are better schools.

It’s not everybody. There are ranking lists that aren’t simply rankings of prestige and household income of undergrads. See Washington Monthly as an example. It just isn’t as well-known as USNWR. After the extremely small list of enormously prestigious and enormously well endowed universities (Stanford, Harvard and a small number of others) there isn’t an obvious group of inherently “better” aka more prestigious schools.

If I live in SC and my child wants wants to be a teacher, she’s far better off attending USCe than Boston College though BC is more prestigious than USC. People are really damn dumb if they focus on general prestige rather than intended major and price. I’ve got a daughter attending UGA who was admitted to Emory for that specific reason. She’ll have no debt when she graduates from UGA which is extremely valuable and she’ll have no difficulty getting into a good grad school from UGA but Emory is more more prestigious.

The prestige factor really only matters for recruiting in a handful of industries like big tech, big consulting, and big banking like investment banking. The other virtue of the elite private schools is the networking that occurs. But if you're looking to be a teacher, the more affordable option makes sense.

No, if you have a degree from Harvard or Princeton or someplace like that, that catches every recruiter's eye and gives you a big lift up in any field. It's a massive brand-name advantage. Now of course once you are on the job you have to prove yourself, but those brand name colleges get you through the door like nobody else does.

Plus, with all the grants and aid, nobody but the kids of the very rich pay those high fees at the Ivies anyway.

Basically, any kid in any field who actually has the choice between USF and Princeton and chooses to go to USF is foolish, which is why basically nobody who has that choice does.

That's why when a kid gets an acceptance letter from a Yale or a Stanford, usually the family throws a huge party. It is indeed a moment worthy of a major celebration.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2019 09:38 AM by quo vadis.)
09-11-2019 09:34 AM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
(09-11-2019 09:34 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 09:24 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 07:38 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 07:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 05:49 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  Thanks for the links.

It’s not even just that, lists like these drastically favor smaller schools. If South Carolina for example decided to cut their enrollment in half by eliminating the bottom 50% of each class their average test scores and faculty/student ratio would skyrocket. But does being more exclusive somehow make the school any better? They’re still offering the same programs, the same professors, and the same research output

I think "like these" is important, because it shows that it's not just USNWR. Heck it's everybody.

I mean, is there a list of colleges in existence that doesn't have Harvard and Stanford above South Carolina and USF?

I don't think so, and that's just because the consensus everywhere is that the former are better schools.

It’s not everybody. There are ranking lists that aren’t simply rankings of prestige and household income of undergrads. See Washington Monthly as an example. It just isn’t as well-known as USNWR. After the extremely small list of enormously prestigious and enormously well endowed universities (Stanford, Harvard and a small number of others) there isn’t an obvious group of inherently “better” aka more prestigious schools.

If I live in SC and my child wants wants to be a teacher, she’s far better off attending USCe than Boston College though BC is more prestigious than USC. People are really damn dumb if they focus on general prestige rather than intended major and price. I’ve got a daughter attending UGA who was admitted to Emory for that specific reason. She’ll have no debt when she graduates from UGA which is extremely valuable and she’ll have no difficulty getting into a good grad school from UGA but Emory is more more prestigious.

The prestige factor really only matters for recruiting in a handful of industries like big tech, big consulting, and big banking like investment banking. The other virtue of the elite private schools is the networking that occurs. But if you're looking to be a teacher, the more affordable option makes sense.

No,if you have a degree from Harvard or Princeton or someplace like that, that catches every recruiter's eye and gives you a big lift up in any field. It's a massive brand-name advantage. Now of course once you are on the job you have to prove yourself, but those brand name colleges get you through the door like nobody else does.

I would tell any HS student anywhere, if you can get in to Harvard or Princeton or Stanford or any Ivy or near-Ivy, by all means do it. It will pay for itself in spades many times over compared to a degree from Eastern Michigan or whatever.

Plus, with all the grants and aid money, nobody except rich who can afford it pay the high fees at those schools anyway. At some of them you pay less, as the tuition is free if you are accepted.

Basically, any kid in any field who actually has the choice between USF and Princeton and chooses to go to South Florida over Princeton is foolish, which is why basically nobody who has that choice does.
And if you are an in-store resident in NY with Ivy League level credentials, choose the statuary colleges at Cornell. You get an actual Ivy League degree for a fraction of the cost of other Ivies.
09-11-2019 09:38 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
(09-11-2019 09:38 AM)whittx Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 09:34 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 09:24 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 07:38 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 07:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think "like these" is important, because it shows that it's not just USNWR. Heck it's everybody.

I mean, is there a list of colleges in existence that doesn't have Harvard and Stanford above South Carolina and USF?

I don't think so, and that's just because the consensus everywhere is that the former are better schools.

It’s not everybody. There are ranking lists that aren’t simply rankings of prestige and household income of undergrads. See Washington Monthly as an example. It just isn’t as well-known as USNWR. After the extremely small list of enormously prestigious and enormously well endowed universities (Stanford, Harvard and a small number of others) there isn’t an obvious group of inherently “better” aka more prestigious schools.

If I live in SC and my child wants wants to be a teacher, she’s far better off attending USCe than Boston College though BC is more prestigious than USC. People are really damn dumb if they focus on general prestige rather than intended major and price. I’ve got a daughter attending UGA who was admitted to Emory for that specific reason. She’ll have no debt when she graduates from UGA which is extremely valuable and she’ll have no difficulty getting into a good grad school from UGA but Emory is more more prestigious.

The prestige factor really only matters for recruiting in a handful of industries like big tech, big consulting, and big banking like investment banking. The other virtue of the elite private schools is the networking that occurs. But if you're looking to be a teacher, the more affordable option makes sense.

No,if you have a degree from Harvard or Princeton or someplace like that, that catches every recruiter's eye and gives you a big lift up in any field. It's a massive brand-name advantage. Now of course once you are on the job you have to prove yourself, but those brand name colleges get you through the door like nobody else does.

I would tell any HS student anywhere, if you can get in to Harvard or Princeton or Stanford or any Ivy or near-Ivy, by all means do it. It will pay for itself in spades many times over compared to a degree from Eastern Michigan or whatever.

Plus, with all the grants and aid money, nobody except rich who can afford it pay the high fees at those schools anyway. At some of them you pay less, as the tuition is free if you are accepted.

Basically, any kid in any field who actually has the choice between USF and Princeton and chooses to go to South Florida over Princeton is foolish, which is why basically nobody who has that choice does.
And if you are an in-store resident in NY with Ivy League level credentials, choose the statuary colleges at Cornell. You get an actual Ivy League degree for a fraction of the cost of other Ivies.

No question, Cornell is Ivy-elite and has the same cachet. So sure, if you have your choice between Yale and Cornell (that's a nice choice to have, LOL), and Yale is going to charge you $50k a year and Cornell $10k a year, than Cornell is the no-brainer decision.
09-11-2019 09:42 AM
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Post: #25
RE: Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
(09-11-2019 07:38 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 07:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 05:49 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 05:20 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  
(09-09-2019 04:00 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  These rankings are sort of a joke anyway - haven't a ton of schools been caught openly manipulating the rankings by giving themselves anonymous reviews and lying about student/teacher ratios?
Oh, like Northeastern and Oklahoma?

Others who manipulated data includes:
UTSA
Akron
Boston University
UC Riverside
Bowling Green

Top ways in how they manipulate their data

Thanks for the links.

It’s not even just that, lists like these drastically favor smaller schools. If South Carolina for example decided to cut their enrollment in half by eliminating the bottom 50% of each class their average test scores and faculty/student ratio would skyrocket. But does being more exclusive somehow make the school any better? They’re still offering the same programs, the same professors, and the same research output

I think "like these" is important, because it shows that it's not just USNWR. Heck it's everybody.

I mean, is there a list of colleges in existence that doesn't have Harvard and Stanford above South Carolina and USF?

I don't think so, and that's just because the consensus everywhere is that the former are better schools.

It’s not everybody. There are ranking lists that aren’t simply rankings of prestige and household income of undergrads. See Washington Monthly as an example. It just isn’t as well-known as USNWR. After the extremely small list of enormously prestigious and enormously well endowed universities (Stanford, Harvard and a small number of others) there isn’t an obvious group of inherently “better” aka more prestigious schools.

If I live in SC and my child wants wants to be a teacher, she’s far better off attending USCe than Boston College though BC is more prestigious than USC. People are really damn dumb if they focus on general prestige rather than intended major and price. I’ve got a daughter attending UGA who was admitted to Emory for that specific reason. She’ll have no debt when she graduates from UGA which is extremely valuable and she’ll have no difficulty getting into a good grad school from UGA but Emory is more more prestigious.

Well it depends on the major. I knew someone who transferred from UCLA to Kentucky because UK was stronger in her major. (incidentally she was at UCLA in 1975 and UK in 1978-was working on a master's at UH during the Phi Slama Jama years-we joked everyone in the country would be recruiting her for her Phd).

Had a niece who transferred from A&M to Houston. She was in hotel and restaurant management and the only place better for that in the country is Cornell.

In Accounting there is no better place than Texas. They have been ranked in the top 3 for about 40 years straight and #1 most of those years. Texas, Illinois and BYU are the best places. Several MAC schools are at the top of the rankings.

In agriculture, UC Davis is one of the best (of course they are good in a lot of things), but you would also include Georgia and Texas A&M at the top. Almost none of the Ivies or UNC or UVA or Michigan would be at the top.
09-11-2019 09:44 AM
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Post: #26
RE: Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
(09-11-2019 09:34 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 09:24 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 07:38 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 07:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 05:49 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  Thanks for the links.

It’s not even just that, lists like these drastically favor smaller schools. If South Carolina for example decided to cut their enrollment in half by eliminating the bottom 50% of each class their average test scores and faculty/student ratio would skyrocket. But does being more exclusive somehow make the school any better? They’re still offering the same programs, the same professors, and the same research output

I think "like these" is important, because it shows that it's not just USNWR. Heck it's everybody.

I mean, is there a list of colleges in existence that doesn't have Harvard and Stanford above South Carolina and USF?

I don't think so, and that's just because the consensus everywhere is that the former are better schools.

It’s not everybody. There are ranking lists that aren’t simply rankings of prestige and household income of undergrads. See Washington Monthly as an example. It just isn’t as well-known as USNWR. After the extremely small list of enormously prestigious and enormously well endowed universities (Stanford, Harvard and a small number of others) there isn’t an obvious group of inherently “better” aka more prestigious schools.

If I live in SC and my child wants wants to be a teacher, she’s far better off attending USCe than Boston College though BC is more prestigious than USC. People are really damn dumb if they focus on general prestige rather than intended major and price. I’ve got a daughter attending UGA who was admitted to Emory for that specific reason. She’ll have no debt when she graduates from UGA which is extremely valuable and she’ll have no difficulty getting into a good grad school from UGA but Emory is more more prestigious.

The prestige factor really only matters for recruiting in a handful of industries like big tech, big consulting, and big banking like investment banking. The other virtue of the elite private schools is the networking that occurs. But if you're looking to be a teacher, the more affordable option makes sense.

No, if you have a degree from Harvard or Princeton or someplace like that, that catches every recruiter's eye and gives you a big lift up in any field. It's a massive brand-name advantage. Now of course once you are on the job you have to prove yourself, but those brand name colleges get you through the door like nobody else does.

Plus, with all the grants and aid, nobody but the kids of the very rich pay those high fees at the Ivies anyway.

Basically, any kid in any field who actually has the choice between USF and Princeton and chooses to go to USF is foolish, which is why basically nobody who has that choice does.

That's why when a kid gets an acceptance letter from a Yale or a Stanford, usually the family throws a huge party. It is indeed a moment worthy of a major celebration.

Depends on what you want to do. If you want to work for a Fortune 100, you definitely choose Princeton. If you have no interest in big companies and want to work in Florida, USF could be a better choice.
09-11-2019 09:51 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
(09-11-2019 09:51 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 09:34 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 09:24 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 07:38 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 07:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think "like these" is important, because it shows that it's not just USNWR. Heck it's everybody.

I mean, is there a list of colleges in existence that doesn't have Harvard and Stanford above South Carolina and USF?

I don't think so, and that's just because the consensus everywhere is that the former are better schools.

It’s not everybody. There are ranking lists that aren’t simply rankings of prestige and household income of undergrads. See Washington Monthly as an example. It just isn’t as well-known as USNWR. After the extremely small list of enormously prestigious and enormously well endowed universities (Stanford, Harvard and a small number of others) there isn’t an obvious group of inherently “better” aka more prestigious schools.

If I live in SC and my child wants wants to be a teacher, she’s far better off attending USCe than Boston College though BC is more prestigious than USC. People are really damn dumb if they focus on general prestige rather than intended major and price. I’ve got a daughter attending UGA who was admitted to Emory for that specific reason. She’ll have no debt when she graduates from UGA which is extremely valuable and she’ll have no difficulty getting into a good grad school from UGA but Emory is more more prestigious.

The prestige factor really only matters for recruiting in a handful of industries like big tech, big consulting, and big banking like investment banking. The other virtue of the elite private schools is the networking that occurs. But if you're looking to be a teacher, the more affordable option makes sense.

No, if you have a degree from Harvard or Princeton or someplace like that, that catches every recruiter's eye and gives you a big lift up in any field. It's a massive brand-name advantage. Now of course once you are on the job you have to prove yourself, but those brand name colleges get you through the door like nobody else does.

Plus, with all the grants and aid, nobody but the kids of the very rich pay those high fees at the Ivies anyway.

Basically, any kid in any field who actually has the choice between USF and Princeton and chooses to go to USF is foolish, which is why basically nobody who has that choice does.

That's why when a kid gets an acceptance letter from a Yale or a Stanford, usually the family throws a huge party. It is indeed a moment worthy of a major celebration.

Depends on what you want to do. If you want to work for a Fortune 100, you definitely choose Princeton. If you have no interest in big companies and want to work in Florida, USF could be a better choice.

As much as I don't like to say it - No. The Ivy brand is respected universally, everywhere.
09-11-2019 09:56 AM
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Post: #28
RE: Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
(09-09-2019 04:00 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  These rankings are sort of a joke anyway - haven't a ton of schools been caught openly manipulating the rankings by giving themselves anonymous reviews and lying about student/teacher ratios?

Emory did this for over a decade. From 2012.

mory investigation finds that staff and administrators intentionally misreported admissions data for at least 10 years and that individuals with knowledge of the data fraud did not speak up.

Emory University officials announced Friday that administrators had knowingly misreported information about the SAT and ACT scores, class rank, and grade point averages of incoming students since at least 2000. Instead of reporting scores and class rank for enrolled students, administrators reported that of admitted students, leading to higher numbers because many students at the top of Emory's admission pool enrolled at other institutions.

The Emory announcement is the second high-profile revelation of an elite college reporting incorrect data about student admissions. In May, Claremont McKenna College announced that a dean there had been misreporting data about admissions.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012...ore-decade
09-11-2019 12:03 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
(09-11-2019 09:56 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 09:51 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 09:34 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 09:24 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 07:38 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:  It’s not everybody. There are ranking lists that aren’t simply rankings of prestige and household income of undergrads. See Washington Monthly as an example. It just isn’t as well-known as USNWR. After the extremely small list of enormously prestigious and enormously well endowed universities (Stanford, Harvard and a small number of others) there isn’t an obvious group of inherently “better” aka more prestigious schools.

If I live in SC and my child wants wants to be a teacher, she’s far better off attending USCe than Boston College though BC is more prestigious than USC. People are really damn dumb if they focus on general prestige rather than intended major and price. I’ve got a daughter attending UGA who was admitted to Emory for that specific reason. She’ll have no debt when she graduates from UGA which is extremely valuable and she’ll have no difficulty getting into a good grad school from UGA but Emory is more more prestigious.

The prestige factor really only matters for recruiting in a handful of industries like big tech, big consulting, and big banking like investment banking. The other virtue of the elite private schools is the networking that occurs. But if you're looking to be a teacher, the more affordable option makes sense.

No, if you have a degree from Harvard or Princeton or someplace like that, that catches every recruiter's eye and gives you a big lift up in any field. It's a massive brand-name advantage. Now of course once you are on the job you have to prove yourself, but those brand name colleges get you through the door like nobody else does.

Plus, with all the grants and aid, nobody but the kids of the very rich pay those high fees at the Ivies anyway.

Basically, any kid in any field who actually has the choice between USF and Princeton and chooses to go to USF is foolish, which is why basically nobody who has that choice does.

That's why when a kid gets an acceptance letter from a Yale or a Stanford, usually the family throws a huge party. It is indeed a moment worthy of a major celebration.

Depends on what you want to do. If you want to work for a Fortune 100, you definitely choose Princeton. If you have no interest in big companies and want to work in Florida, USF could be a better choice.

As much as I don't like to say it - No. The Ivy brand is respected universally, everywhere.

I’m saying if you consider all factors. If both were free and you were indifferent to living in Tampa or New Jersey and to the mix of students then yes Princeton. But that’s a lot to exclude in your consideration. And in a lot of jobs Princeton would be a minimal plus
09-11-2019 02:15 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
(09-10-2019 07:09 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  And now you’ve moved the goalposts to online degrees. Ivies are among the worst offenders yet highest ranked in every stack ranking in that space. They trade on their pedigree while selling their online programs to for-profit third parties to operate while having crap admission standards and ripping off unsuspecting applicants.

Ranking by ROI is in fact a knock against schools that graduate a lot of teachers and social workers starting with USNWR which is nothing other than than a prestige (student income ranking) list. Ranking universities by ROI disadvantages schools that graduate lots teachers because teachers have low earnings. OTOH schools such as GA State, unlike, oh I don’t know, GA Tech, do a good job of graduating students from low-income families and promoting social mobility by graduating lots of teachers and social workers. Half of GA State students receive Pell grants. Less than 15% of Tech undergrads receive Pell grants. We obsessively rank what we value which more often than not isn’t things like social mobility.

Good job by Tech though with their online degree program.


I'm not moving any goal posts. These are broad trends in academia that have been going on for some time.

The Ivy League, particularly the flagships within it like Harvard (c*** for Penn Jillette), Yale, and Princeton, have been a rip off for some time. And increasingly they are outright political actors only interested in a political agenda, but that's another topic for another board.

Ranking by ROI is a knock against teacher farm factories if they are ringing people up 10K+ a year for a job that won't make 35k in some low cost of living areas. If you take on 40k in debt for a job that makes 35k you're going to be in debt for the next decade before we even bring a mortgage into the picture. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad or wrong choice. But it should factor in to your decision making.

Regarding income mobility .... that IMO is outside the primary mission focus of a top flight school. It's not nothing or something to be ignored, but it isn't driving the bus. That should be part of the core mission of your local community college, your local state factory farm with 50k enrollment, etc. Regarding GT (not sure why you keep looping it back to GT?), AFAIK any Valedictorian or Salutatorian in greater Metro Atlanta gets a free ride to GT regardless of the school or any other factors. And of course Metro Atlanta's public schools aren't exactly world beaters.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2019 02:44 PM by georgia_tech_swagger.)
09-11-2019 02:38 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
(09-11-2019 02:38 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 07:09 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  And now you’ve moved the goalposts to online degrees. Ivies are among the worst offenders yet highest ranked in every stack ranking in that space. They trade on their pedigree while selling their online programs to for-profit third parties to operate while having crap admission standards and ripping off unsuspecting applicants.

Ranking by ROI is in fact a knock against schools that graduate a lot of teachers and social workers starting with USNWR which is nothing other than than a prestige (student income ranking) list. Ranking universities by ROI disadvantages schools that graduate lots teachers because teachers have low earnings. OTOH schools such as GA State, unlike, oh I don’t know, GA Tech, do a good job of graduating students from low-income families and promoting social mobility by graduating lots of teachers and social workers. Half of GA State students receive Pell grants. Less than 15% of Tech undergrads receive Pell grants. We obsessively rank what we value which more often than not isn’t things like social mobility.

Good job by Tech though with their online degree program.


I'm not moving any goal posts. These are broad trends in academia that have been going on for some time.

The Ivy League, particularly the flagships within it like Harvard (c*** for Penn Jillette), Yale, and Princeton, have been a rip off for some time. And increasingly they are outright political actors only interested in a political agenda, but that's another topic for another board.

Ranking by ROI is a knock against teacher farm factories if they are ringing people up 10K+ a year for a job that won't make 35k in some low cost of living areas. If you take on 40k in debt for a job that makes 35k you're going to be in debt for the next decade before we even bring a mortgage into the picture. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad or wrong choice. But it should factor in to your decision making.

Regarding income mobility .... that IMO is outside the primary mission focus of a top flight school. It's not nothing or something to be ignored, but it isn't driving the bus. That should be part of the core mission of your local community college, your local state factory farm with 50k enrollment, etc. Regarding GT (not sure why you keep looping it back to GT?), AFAIK any Valedictorian or Salutatorian in greater Metro Atlanta gets a free ride to GT regardless of the school or any other factors. And of course Metro Atlanta's public schools aren't exactly world beaters.

Eh, the Ivy League schools aren't rip-offs. The average Ivy League liberal arts major might not necessarily have a higher ROI per se compared to, say, an engineering major at a solid in-state flagship, but they provide a clear entry point to the *truly* elite jobs that not even the upper middle class (much less the middle or lower class) really understands and don't have access to unless you go to a top 15 or so school: investment banking, top tier management strategy consulting, private equity, hedge funds, venture capital, etc. I know that the right side of the aisle seems to just want to believe Ivy League and Ivy-level schools are looking to advance a political agenda (and to be sure, they have an overall leftward political bent like most of academia), but the reason why it makes sense to attend those colleges is that they really do have disproportionate *control* over the power centers on Wall Street, Capitol Hill and Hollywood that drive American business, politics and culture. (Silicon Valley is slightly more egalitarian, but Stanford, which is actually the hardest school to get into in the country even above Harvard, has its own hold there.)

If my kids want to be engineers or an accountants, then paying in-state tuition to send them to my alma mater of Illinois provides a much better ROI compared to an Ivy League school. Heck, Illinois is straight up ranked higher than any of the Ivy League schools in those subject areas. However, if my kids want to have a direct shot at the professions that I mentioned above (where you're talking about potential seven or eight figure payouts mid-career), then that's where the $70,000+ annual costs for the Ivy League schools make sense. (It's possible to get there from a school like Illinois, but it's simply a lot less direct path.)

The real rip offs to me are the private schools that charge the same as Ivy League schools but aren't ranked any higher than your typical public flagship. I have nothing against, say, Boston University or George Washington University, but paying $70,000+ per year to go to *those* schools as opposed to in-state tuition at the average Power 5 public university is insane to me. I totally get it if $70,000 per year going to Cornell or Duke gets you a job at Goldman Sachs or McKinsey that pays off many times over during the course of a career. That's not happening at schools outside of the top 15 or so, though, which means that full pay private school tuition for a school ranked lower than that elite tier is a really hard sell on the ROI front.

TLDR: a top 15 or so school is worth the price if you're gunning for one those elite 1% professions. Otherwise, the ROI of your degree depends more on your major than your school.

EDIT: I see that CitrusUCF made essentially the same point above about certain elite sectors.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2019 04:27 PM by Frank the Tank.)
09-11-2019 03:59 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
(09-10-2019 08:37 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 06:02 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(09-09-2019 04:00 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  These rankings are sort of a joke anyway - haven't a ton of schools been caught openly manipulating the rankings by giving themselves anonymous reviews and lying about student/teacher ratios?

You don't need fraud to make these rankings a joke. They do not normalize per capita, which is a giant give away to factory farms with over 50,000 students. As a result, Rice will never be ahead of Texas in the rankings even though we all know Rice is the better school. They do not discriminate on degree difficulty, content, or achievement .... so a degree in nuclear engineering with a 4.0 is worth just as much as a degree in interdisciplinary studies with a 2.5 is worth just as much as a degree in being a Trotskyite failure and social burden. If you were to actually sort by types of degrees, normalize per capita, take into account ROI on salary after graduation, etc .... the list would look alien to most people. You'd find sitting right up at the top the Colorado School of Mines, Cal Tech, Georgia Tech, Carnegie Mellon, MIT, Johns Hopkins, the Naval Academy, the Air Force Academy, the Coast Guard Academy, Lehigh, Case Western Reserve, and Rensselaer Polytechnic.

USNWR favors the small selective schools and so strongly favors private schools.

You may be thinking about other rankings.

Yes, the US News rankings definitely have more of a private school bias since it takes into account factors such as alumni giving rates (which, even at the most well-supported public universities like Michigan, will pale in comparison to smaller private schools simply because of the scale).

Note that every single year, admissions people across nearly all universities (even the ones that rank highly) state that they absolutely despise the US News rankings and what they have done to their profession. Yet, those same admissions people *have* to care about those rankings because the simple reality is that parents and kids care about them a lot... and the higher income parents and kids that those schools need to have since they can pay higher tuition amounts care about those rankings even more than the income levels below them.

Whether the US News rankings actually matter in career outcomes is a valid and worthy debate. I actually like the more outcome-focused Wall Street Journal rankings that were released last week (although you'll still see the same elite private schools at the top, albeit in a different order). Those rankings seem to reflect what I think of which schools have a better ROI.

However, there's no question that the US News rankings very much matter for college admissions themselves - every spot that a school moves in the US News rankings, whether up or down, will have a direct impact on the number of the applications that school will receive that year and the quality of those applicants. College admissions officers are on the record that they hate the US News rankings, but since their own jobs are directly at stake with those rankings, they *have* to care about them and adjust their admissions practices accordingly. That's just the reality and it will impact our own kids' admissions prospects if they're applying anywhere.
09-11-2019 04:41 PM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
(09-11-2019 03:59 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 02:38 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 07:09 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  And now you’ve moved the goalposts to online degrees. Ivies are among the worst offenders yet highest ranked in every stack ranking in that space. They trade on their pedigree while selling their online programs to for-profit third parties to operate while having crap admission standards and ripping off unsuspecting applicants.

Ranking by ROI is in fact a knock against schools that graduate a lot of teachers and social workers starting with USNWR which is nothing other than than a prestige (student income ranking) list. Ranking universities by ROI disadvantages schools that graduate lots teachers because teachers have low earnings. OTOH schools such as GA State, unlike, oh I don’t know, GA Tech, do a good job of graduating students from low-income families and promoting social mobility by graduating lots of teachers and social workers. Half of GA State students receive Pell grants. Less than 15% of Tech undergrads receive Pell grants. We obsessively rank what we value which more often than not isn’t things like social mobility.

Good job by Tech though with their online degree program.


I'm not moving any goal posts. These are broad trends in academia that have been going on for some time.

The Ivy League, particularly the flagships within it like Harvard (c*** for Penn Jillette), Yale, and Princeton, have been a rip off for some time. And increasingly they are outright political actors only interested in a political agenda, but that's another topic for another board.

Ranking by ROI is a knock against teacher farm factories if they are ringing people up 10K+ a year for a job that won't make 35k in some low cost of living areas. If you take on 40k in debt for a job that makes 35k you're going to be in debt for the next decade before we even bring a mortgage into the picture. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad or wrong choice. But it should factor in to your decision making.

Regarding income mobility .... that IMO is outside the primary mission focus of a top flight school. It's not nothing or something to be ignored, but it isn't driving the bus. That should be part of the core mission of your local community college, your local state factory farm with 50k enrollment, etc. Regarding GT (not sure why you keep looping it back to GT?), AFAIK any Valedictorian or Salutatorian in greater Metro Atlanta gets a free ride to GT regardless of the school or any other factors. And of course Metro Atlanta's public schools aren't exactly world beaters.

Eh, the Ivy League schools aren't rip-offs. The average Ivy League liberal arts major might not necessarily have a higher ROI per se compared to, say, an engineering major at a solid in-state flagship, but they provide a clear entry point to the *truly* elite jobs that not even the upper middle class (much less the middle or lower class) really understands and don't have access to unless you go to a top 15 or so school: investment banking, top tier management strategy consulting, private equity, hedge funds, venture capital, etc. I know that the right side of the aisle seems to just want to believe Ivy League and Ivy-level schools are looking to advance a political agenda (and to be sure, they have an overall leftward political bent like most of academia), but the reason why it makes sense to attend those colleges is that they really do have disproportionate *control* over the power centers on Wall Street, Capitol Hill and Hollywood that drive American business, politics and culture. (Silicon Valley is slightly more egalitarian, but Stanford, which is actually the hardest school to get into in the country even above Harvard, has its own hold there.)

If my kids want to be engineers or an accountants, then paying in-state tuition to send them to my alma mater of Illinois provides a much better ROI compared to an Ivy League school. Heck, Illinois is straight up ranked higher than any of the Ivy League schools in those subject areas. However, if my kids want to have a direct shot at the professions that I mentioned above (where you're talking about potential seven or eight figure payouts mid-career), then that's where the $70,000+ annual costs for the Ivy League schools make sense. (It's possible to get there from a school like Illinois, but it's simply a lot less direct path.)

The real rip offs to me are the private schools that charge the same as Ivy League schools but aren't ranked any higher than your typical public flagship. I have nothing against, say, Boston University or George Washington University, but paying $70,000+ per year to go to *those* schools as opposed to in-state tuition at the average Power 5 public university is insane to me. I totally get it if $70,000 per year going to Cornell or Duke gets you a job at Goldman Sachs or McKinsey that pays off many times over during the course of a career. That's not happening at schools outside of the top 15 or so, though, which means that full pay private school tuition for a school ranked lower than that elite tier is a really hard sell on the ROI front.

TLDR: a top 15 or so school is worth the price if you're gunning for one those elite 1% professions. Otherwise, the ROI of your degree depends more on your major than your school.

EDIT: I see that CitrusUCF made essentially the same point above about certain elite sectors.

You said much more artfully and comprehensively what I said above. Agree with you 100%. The only thing I'd add is that the Ivies and similar level schools have a networking advantage. That plays itself out both in politics as well as in finding career opportunities if you're not going into banking, consulting, and the like. You're likely to be in class with people who are founding startups or will go on to be managers and then executives in large companies.
09-11-2019 06:57 PM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
(09-11-2019 02:38 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 07:09 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  And now you’ve moved the goalposts to online degrees. Ivies are among the worst offenders yet highest ranked in every stack ranking in that space. They trade on their pedigree while selling their online programs to for-profit third parties to operate while having crap admission standards and ripping off unsuspecting applicants.

Ranking by ROI is in fact a knock against schools that graduate a lot of teachers and social workers starting with USNWR which is nothing other than than a prestige (student income ranking) list. Ranking universities by ROI disadvantages schools that graduate lots teachers because teachers have low earnings. OTOH schools such as GA State, unlike, oh I don’t know, GA Tech, do a good job of graduating students from low-income families and promoting social mobility by graduating lots of teachers and social workers. Half of GA State students receive Pell grants. Less than 15% of Tech undergrads receive Pell grants. We obsessively rank what we value which more often than not isn’t things like social mobility.

Good job by Tech though with their online degree program.


I'm not moving any goal posts. These are broad trends in academia that have been going on for some time.

The Ivy League, particularly the flagships within it like Harvard (c*** for Penn Jillette), Yale, and Princeton, have been a rip off for some time. And increasingly they are outright political actors only interested in a political agenda, but that's another topic for another board.

Ranking by ROI is a knock against teacher farm factories if they are ringing people up 10K+ a year for a job that won't make 35k in some low cost of living areas. If you take on 40k in debt for a job that makes 35k you're going to be in debt for the next decade before we even bring a mortgage into the picture. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad or wrong choice. But it should factor in to your decision making.

Regarding income mobility .... that IMO is outside the primary mission focus of a top flight school. It's not nothing or something to be ignored, but it isn't driving the bus. That should be part of the core mission of your local community college, your local state factory farm with 50k enrollment, etc. Regarding GT (not sure why you keep looping it back to GT?), AFAIK any Valedictorian or Salutatorian in greater Metro Atlanta gets a free ride to GT regardless of the school or any other factors. And of course Metro Atlanta's public schools aren't exactly world beaters.

Georgia Tech is an elite level public school. I don't know if that's fully appreciated by the general public, but it's typically near or on the same level as Michigan, Texas, UVA, and the various Cals. It may be like a half-tier below them, but it's well above the next tier of high ranked state schools like Florida, Ohio State, and such.

I don't know about investment banking, but Georgia Tech is recruited by the three elite consulting firms (McKinsey, Boston Consulting, and Bain), though primarily for their Atlanta offices and not for nationwide opportunities like the Ivies, Ivy-equivalents (Stanford, Duke, Chicago, Northwestern, and a few others) and the Public Ivies above. Amazingly, though, even a school like Rice isn't really recruited by them for national opportunities and tends to be more focused on meeting the needs of the Texas offices.

Also to echo Frank again, I think most all private schools are rip-offs at this point. There's very few that are going to provide a better RoI than a public school. There are literally hundreds of little private schools charging tens of thousands a year for the same quality of education and same employment outcomes as available at a public university -- and not just at the flagship public university.

Stetson, for instance, charges $43k/yr. There is literally nothing that justifies that. There is no RoI calculation that can support that, and there's no qualitative advantage to a place like Stetson. Every single student at Stetson would be better off going to any Florida public university.
09-11-2019 07:04 PM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
(09-11-2019 09:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 09:38 AM)whittx Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 09:34 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 09:24 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 07:38 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:  It’s not everybody. There are ranking lists that aren’t simply rankings of prestige and household income of undergrads. See Washington Monthly as an example. It just isn’t as well-known as USNWR. After the extremely small list of enormously prestigious and enormously well endowed universities (Stanford, Harvard and a small number of others) there isn’t an obvious group of inherently “better” aka more prestigious schools.

If I live in SC and my child wants wants to be a teacher, she’s far better off attending USCe than Boston College though BC is more prestigious than USC. People are really damn dumb if they focus on general prestige rather than intended major and price. I’ve got a daughter attending UGA who was admitted to Emory for that specific reason. She’ll have no debt when she graduates from UGA which is extremely valuable and she’ll have no difficulty getting into a good grad school from UGA but Emory is more more prestigious.

The prestige factor really only matters for recruiting in a handful of industries like big tech, big consulting, and big banking like investment banking. The other virtue of the elite private schools is the networking that occurs. But if you're looking to be a teacher, the more affordable option makes sense.

No,if you have a degree from Harvard or Princeton or someplace like that, that catches every recruiter's eye and gives you a big lift up in any field. It's a massive brand-name advantage. Now of course once you are on the job you have to prove yourself, but those brand name colleges get you through the door like nobody else does.

I would tell any HS student anywhere, if you can get in to Harvard or Princeton or Stanford or any Ivy or near-Ivy, by all means do it. It will pay for itself in spades many times over compared to a degree from Eastern Michigan or whatever.

Plus, with all the grants and aid money, nobody except rich who can afford it pay the high fees at those schools anyway. At some of them you pay less, as the tuition is free if you are accepted.

Basically, any kid in any field who actually has the choice between USF and Princeton and chooses to go to South Florida over Princeton is foolish, which is why basically nobody who has that choice does.
And if you are an in-store resident in NY with Ivy League level credentials, choose the statuary colleges at Cornell. You get an actual Ivy League degree for a fraction of the cost of other Ivies.

No question, Cornell is Ivy-elite and has the same cachet. So sure, if you have your choice between Yale and Cornell (that's a nice choice to have, LOL), and Yale is going to charge you $50k a year and Cornell $10k a year, than Cornell is the no-brainer decision.


Except for the whole going to ag school thing at Cornell and few folks pay full freight at either school.
09-11-2019 07:16 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
https://time.com/5676174/universities-eq...eliteness/

Interesting stat.

"...The top five law schools, for example, enroll roughly two-thirds of all applicants with LSAT scores in the 99th percentile...."
09-13-2019 04:47 PM
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RE: Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
https://www.accountingdegreetoday.com/schools/

On the topic of the particular major:
This site lists 5 different accounting school rankings. Penn is at #4 in USNWR. They are unranked in all the others.
Texas, Illinois and BYU are 1-2-3 in two of the rankings and included in the two rankings that simply list the top 10-15 without ranking them. The 5th ranking inexplicably leaves Illinois and BYU out of the top 10 and lists Texas as #6.

Interestingly, the Public Accounting Report, which is the one most in the industry look at, has 4 SEC schools in the top 10-A&M #5, Ole Miss #7, Alabama #8 and Florida #10.
09-13-2019 05:00 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
(09-11-2019 07:04 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 02:38 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 07:09 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  And now you’ve moved the goalposts to online degrees. Ivies are among the worst offenders yet highest ranked in every stack ranking in that space. They trade on their pedigree while selling their online programs to for-profit third parties to operate while having crap admission standards and ripping off unsuspecting applicants.

Ranking by ROI is in fact a knock against schools that graduate a lot of teachers and social workers starting with USNWR which is nothing other than than a prestige (student income ranking) list. Ranking universities by ROI disadvantages schools that graduate lots teachers because teachers have low earnings. OTOH schools such as GA State, unlike, oh I don’t know, GA Tech, do a good job of graduating students from low-income families and promoting social mobility by graduating lots of teachers and social workers. Half of GA State students receive Pell grants. Less than 15% of Tech undergrads receive Pell grants. We obsessively rank what we value which more often than not isn’t things like social mobility.

Good job by Tech though with their online degree program.


I'm not moving any goal posts. These are broad trends in academia that have been going on for some time.

The Ivy League, particularly the flagships within it like Harvard (c*** for Penn Jillette), Yale, and Princeton, have been a rip off for some time. And increasingly they are outright political actors only interested in a political agenda, but that's another topic for another board.

Ranking by ROI is a knock against teacher farm factories if they are ringing people up 10K+ a year for a job that won't make 35k in some low cost of living areas. If you take on 40k in debt for a job that makes 35k you're going to be in debt for the next decade before we even bring a mortgage into the picture. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad or wrong choice. But it should factor in to your decision making.

Regarding income mobility .... that IMO is outside the primary mission focus of a top flight school. It's not nothing or something to be ignored, but it isn't driving the bus. That should be part of the core mission of your local community college, your local state factory farm with 50k enrollment, etc. Regarding GT (not sure why you keep looping it back to GT?), AFAIK any Valedictorian or Salutatorian in greater Metro Atlanta gets a free ride to GT regardless of the school or any other factors. And of course Metro Atlanta's public schools aren't exactly world beaters.

Georgia Tech is an elite level public school. I don't know if that's fully appreciated by the general public, but it's typically near or on the same level as Michigan, Texas, UVA, and the various Cals. It may be like a half-tier below them, but it's well above the next tier of high ranked state schools like Florida, Ohio State, and such.

I don't know about investment banking, but Georgia Tech is recruited by the three elite consulting firms (McKinsey, Boston Consulting, and Bain), though primarily for their Atlanta offices and not for nationwide opportunities like the Ivies, Ivy-equivalents (Stanford, Duke, Chicago, Northwestern, and a few others) and the Public Ivies above. Amazingly, though, even a school like Rice isn't really recruited by them for national opportunities and tends to be more focused on meeting the needs of the Texas offices.

Also to echo Frank again, I think most all private schools are rip-offs at this point. There's very few that are going to provide a better RoI than a public school. There are literally hundreds of little private schools charging tens of thousands a year for the same quality of education and same employment outcomes as available at a public university -- and not just at the flagship public university.

Stetson, for instance, charges $43k/yr. There is literally nothing that justifies that. There is no RoI calculation that can support that, and there's no qualitative advantage to a place like Stetson. Every single student at Stetson would be better off going to any Florida public university.

As much as I love USC would never send my kids there unless it was free for this very reason. USC is $1,666.00 per credit. The school I'm doing a PhD at is $500. And I only paid $3800.00 for a MS degree. TOTAL.

People will call me Dr. for less money than 1 year many schools.
09-13-2019 08:25 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Marshall moves up to Top Tier National University
(09-13-2019 08:25 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 07:04 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 02:38 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 07:09 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  And now you’ve moved the goalposts to online degrees. Ivies are among the worst offenders yet highest ranked in every stack ranking in that space. They trade on their pedigree while selling their online programs to for-profit third parties to operate while having crap admission standards and ripping off unsuspecting applicants.

Ranking by ROI is in fact a knock against schools that graduate a lot of teachers and social workers starting with USNWR which is nothing other than than a prestige (student income ranking) list. Ranking universities by ROI disadvantages schools that graduate lots teachers because teachers have low earnings. OTOH schools such as GA State, unlike, oh I don’t know, GA Tech, do a good job of graduating students from low-income families and promoting social mobility by graduating lots of teachers and social workers. Half of GA State students receive Pell grants. Less than 15% of Tech undergrads receive Pell grants. We obsessively rank what we value which more often than not isn’t things like social mobility.

Good job by Tech though with their online degree program.


I'm not moving any goal posts. These are broad trends in academia that have been going on for some time.

The Ivy League, particularly the flagships within it like Harvard (c*** for Penn Jillette), Yale, and Princeton, have been a rip off for some time. And increasingly they are outright political actors only interested in a political agenda, but that's another topic for another board.

Ranking by ROI is a knock against teacher farm factories if they are ringing people up 10K+ a year for a job that won't make 35k in some low cost of living areas. If you take on 40k in debt for a job that makes 35k you're going to be in debt for the next decade before we even bring a mortgage into the picture. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad or wrong choice. But it should factor in to your decision making.

Regarding income mobility .... that IMO is outside the primary mission focus of a top flight school. It's not nothing or something to be ignored, but it isn't driving the bus. That should be part of the core mission of your local community college, your local state factory farm with 50k enrollment, etc. Regarding GT (not sure why you keep looping it back to GT?), AFAIK any Valedictorian or Salutatorian in greater Metro Atlanta gets a free ride to GT regardless of the school or any other factors. And of course Metro Atlanta's public schools aren't exactly world beaters.

Georgia Tech is an elite level public school. I don't know if that's fully appreciated by the general public, but it's typically near or on the same level as Michigan, Texas, UVA, and the various Cals. It may be like a half-tier below them, but it's well above the next tier of high ranked state schools like Florida, Ohio State, and such.

I don't know about investment banking, but Georgia Tech is recruited by the three elite consulting firms (McKinsey, Boston Consulting, and Bain), though primarily for their Atlanta offices and not for nationwide opportunities like the Ivies, Ivy-equivalents (Stanford, Duke, Chicago, Northwestern, and a few others) and the Public Ivies above. Amazingly, though, even a school like Rice isn't really recruited by them for national opportunities and tends to be more focused on meeting the needs of the Texas offices.

Also to echo Frank again, I think most all private schools are rip-offs at this point. There's very few that are going to provide a better RoI than a public school. There are literally hundreds of little private schools charging tens of thousands a year for the same quality of education and same employment outcomes as available at a public university -- and not just at the flagship public university.

Stetson, for instance, charges $43k/yr. There is literally nothing that justifies that. There is no RoI calculation that can support that, and there's no qualitative advantage to a place like Stetson. Every single student at Stetson would be better off going to any Florida public university.

As much as I love USC would never send my kids there unless it was free for this very reason. USC is $1,666.00 per credit. The school I'm doing a PhD at is $500. And I only paid $3800.00 for a MS degree. TOTAL.

People will call me Dr. for less money than 1 year many schools.

USC is very highly ranked though. It is well recruited for the top industries and employers. While someone on the bus doesn't think USC is the same thing as Stanford, it still presents a boatload of opportunities. The sort of private school I'm criticizing is one that no one outside of its metro area or at least its state has really heard of: the University of La Verne for SoCal for instance. Should have just gone to CSU-whatever. There's literally hundreds of these private schools with giant tuition bills that aren't offering any sort of value-add versus a local public school.
09-15-2019 01:21 PM
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