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Memphis vs Southern - FCS/FBS Disparities
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Mav Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Memphis vs Southern - FCS/FBS Disparities
(09-10-2019 02:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 01:41 PM)Mav Wrote:  I guess when you don't want to come out and admit your status as a SWAC school limits you to borderline D2 talent, you look for excuses. I know when I think of wealthy, spoiled football programs, Memphis isn't on that list. If throwing money at the problems you have is how you fix them, then why does Tennessee still suck?

First, I don't think the SU coach was begrudging Memphis. All of his comments about Memphis were of a complimentary nature. He wasn't asking for a handout, and expressed appreciation that the Memphis coaches had allowed him to see their facilities and pick their brains about building their program. He wasn't whining about them having more resources. He was just noting that they DO have more, and that SU needs to get to work on raising more themselves. As "Hornet" noted, the message aimed at SU boosters.

Beyond that, I wonder, would you feel the same about say a Louisiana-Monroe commenting about LSU? If a UL-Monroe coach mentioned all the advantages that LSU has, you'd say something like "I guess when you don't want to come out and admit your status as a G5/Sun Belt school limits you to borderline 2-star talent, you look for excuses."

Right?

07-coffee3
Yes, it would. At a glance it comes off as sour grapes, but if it's a wink and a nod to the boosters to start to contribute more, then that's understandable. "They beat us because they have better food at the training table" isn't a great look without that context to go with it.

(09-10-2019 04:28 PM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  Easy fix. Have the NCAA allow EA Sports to bring back NCAA Football, NCAA Basketball, NCAA Baseball/Softball games for PS4’s/XBOX/Computers. The licensing fees would be split amongst the Universities represented in the game to go towards player welfare, ie nutrition and COA stipends.

Win for all parties involved. Players and fans.
If you think realignment and AAU ejections are full of backstabbing and smoky-room politicking, it'd be nothing compared to the drive to exclude schools from video game money. No way FCS gets a cut, and I wouldn't put it past the heavy hitters to try to exclude the G5 apart from Boise State and BYU.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2019 09:13 PM by Mav.)
09-10-2019 04:45 PM
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pkptigers07 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Memphis vs Southern - FCS/FBS Disparities
(09-09-2019 03:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-09-2019 03:21 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-09-2019 12:24 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  Nutrition, training & practice habits are not exactly secrets
Fancy weights are still just weights
Practice habits are on the coach
Nutrition is education

Training table nutrition tends to not be cheap.

I think you can do it without steak all the time.

It’s more an issue of the amount of food it takes to feed 100 athletes 4 meals a day than serving high dollar food. This is especially true when those 4 meals are several thousand calories more than the typical 2000 calorie a day diet.
09-10-2019 10:10 PM
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pkptigers07 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Memphis vs Southern - FCS/FBS Disparities
(09-10-2019 02:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 01:52 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 01:41 PM)Mav Wrote:  I guess when you don't want to come out and admit your status as a SWAC school limits you to borderline D2 talent, you look for excuses. I know when I think of wealthy, spoiled football programs, Memphis isn't on that list. If throwing money at the problems you have is how you fix them, then why does Tennessee still suck?

Wealth is relative.

Remember Grambling players went on strike because they had to ride bus from northeast Louisiana to Kansas City or St. Louis and the ceiling of the weight room leaked and they had a poorly controlled MRSA outbreak traced to the weight room.

I suspect most SWAC teams would be impressed by the typical Southland or OVC set-up. The typical Southland or OVC would be impressed by the typical SBC/CUSA/AAC setup and so on.

I think that was my point, LOL.

People always talk about the disparities above them. E.g., a Memphis fan will complain about all the advantages Tennessee has being in the SEC. But there are schools below Memphis in the pecking order, and to them Memphis has it made, etc.

This is very true. Memphis is one of the best resourced non-P5 programs over the past 5-7 years. Yet compared to UT, as an institution we receive $1 for every $2 they receive in state funding which is about 30% of the university’s funding. When you factor in the differences in ticket sales and conference distributions, the two are really worlds apart.

From a funding standpoint, Southern is likely as far away from Memphis as Memphis is from
UT.
09-10-2019 10:17 PM
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Post: #24
RE: Memphis vs Southern - FCS/FBS Disparities
The video game money was barely even peanuts. Nobody is getting booted over video game money unless its much larger than last time.
09-11-2019 09:42 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Memphis vs Southern - FCS/FBS Disparities
(09-10-2019 10:17 PM)pkptigers07 Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 02:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 01:52 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 01:41 PM)Mav Wrote:  I guess when you don't want to come out and admit your status as a SWAC school limits you to borderline D2 talent, you look for excuses. I know when I think of wealthy, spoiled football programs, Memphis isn't on that list. If throwing money at the problems you have is how you fix them, then why does Tennessee still suck?

Wealth is relative.

Remember Grambling players went on strike because they had to ride bus from northeast Louisiana to Kansas City or St. Louis and the ceiling of the weight room leaked and they had a poorly controlled MRSA outbreak traced to the weight room.

I suspect most SWAC teams would be impressed by the typical Southland or OVC set-up. The typical Southland or OVC would be impressed by the typical SBC/CUSA/AAC setup and so on.

I think that was my point, LOL.

People always talk about the disparities above them. E.g., a Memphis fan will complain about all the advantages Tennessee has being in the SEC. But there are schools below Memphis in the pecking order, and to them Memphis has it made, etc.

This is very true. Memphis is one of the best resourced non-P5 programs over the past 5-7 years. Yet compared to UT, as an institution we receive $1 for every $2 they receive in state funding which is about 30% of the university’s funding. When you factor in the differences in ticket sales and conference distributions, the two are really worlds apart.

From a funding standpoint, Southern is likely as far away from Memphis as Memphis is from
UT.

Yes, SU has an athletic budget of $14 million. Memphis is what, in the $50m range, so way ahead. Tennessee is surely well over $100m.

Memphis basically needs a "university its athletics department can be proud of". Memphis has done a fantastic job upgrading its athletic facilities and resources, and like Houston, Cincy, and UCF basically has the athletic infrastructure and results on the field/court to be regarded as "P5 ready" (USF has the infrastructure, but our results are suffering these days). But Memphis's relatively low academic reputation stands out compared to those schools and is a big demerit, IMO. It's strange, too, because Memphis has also received good corporate funding for its academics as well. It just hasn't translated in to higher academic performance.

Not that it matters this moment, because no P5 is expanding, but you want to be ready because you never know.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2019 09:51 AM by quo vadis.)
09-11-2019 09:50 AM
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Post: #26
RE: Memphis vs Southern - FCS/FBS Disparities
(09-11-2019 09:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 10:17 PM)pkptigers07 Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 02:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 01:52 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 01:41 PM)Mav Wrote:  I guess when you don't want to come out and admit your status as a SWAC school limits you to borderline D2 talent, you look for excuses. I know when I think of wealthy, spoiled football programs, Memphis isn't on that list. If throwing money at the problems you have is how you fix them, then why does Tennessee still suck?

Wealth is relative.

Remember Grambling players went on strike because they had to ride bus from northeast Louisiana to Kansas City or St. Louis and the ceiling of the weight room leaked and they had a poorly controlled MRSA outbreak traced to the weight room.

I suspect most SWAC teams would be impressed by the typical Southland or OVC set-up. The typical Southland or OVC would be impressed by the typical SBC/CUSA/AAC setup and so on.

I think that was my point, LOL.

People always talk about the disparities above them. E.g., a Memphis fan will complain about all the advantages Tennessee has being in the SEC. But there are schools below Memphis in the pecking order, and to them Memphis has it made, etc.

This is very true. Memphis is one of the best resourced non-P5 programs over the past 5-7 years. Yet compared to UT, as an institution we receive $1 for every $2 they receive in state funding which is about 30% of the university’s funding. When you factor in the differences in ticket sales and conference distributions, the two are really worlds apart.

From a funding standpoint, Southern is likely as far away from Memphis as Memphis is from
UT.

Yes, SU has an athletic budget of $14 million. Memphis is what, in the $50m range, so way ahead. Tennessee is surely well over $100m.

Memphis basically needs a "university its athletics department can be proud of". Memphis has done a fantastic job upgrading its athletic facilities and resources, and like Houston, Cincy, and UCF basically has the athletic infrastructure and results on the field/court to be regarded as "P5 ready" (USF has the infrastructure, but our results are suffering these days). But Memphis's relatively low academic reputation stands out compared to those schools and is a big demerit, IMO. It's strange, too, because Memphis has also received good corporate funding for its academics as well. It just hasn't translated in to higher academic performance.

Not that it matters this moment, because no P5 is expanding, but you want to be ready because you never know.

Memphis' endowment is like 220 million while Houston's is around 945 million and Cincy's is over a billion. Money is a factor.
09-11-2019 11:01 AM
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Post: #27
RE: Memphis vs Southern - FCS/FBS Disparities
(09-11-2019 11:01 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 09:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 10:17 PM)pkptigers07 Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 02:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 01:52 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Wealth is relative.

Remember Grambling players went on strike because they had to ride bus from northeast Louisiana to Kansas City or St. Louis and the ceiling of the weight room leaked and they had a poorly controlled MRSA outbreak traced to the weight room.

I suspect most SWAC teams would be impressed by the typical Southland or OVC set-up. The typical Southland or OVC would be impressed by the typical SBC/CUSA/AAC setup and so on.

I think that was my point, LOL.

People always talk about the disparities above them. E.g., a Memphis fan will complain about all the advantages Tennessee has being in the SEC. But there are schools below Memphis in the pecking order, and to them Memphis has it made, etc.

This is very true. Memphis is one of the best resourced non-P5 programs over the past 5-7 years. Yet compared to UT, as an institution we receive $1 for every $2 they receive in state funding which is about 30% of the university’s funding. When you factor in the differences in ticket sales and conference distributions, the two are really worlds apart.

From a funding standpoint, Southern is likely as far away from Memphis as Memphis is from
UT.

Yes, SU has an athletic budget of $14 million. Memphis is what, in the $50m range, so way ahead. Tennessee is surely well over $100m.

Memphis basically needs a "university its athletics department can be proud of". Memphis has done a fantastic job upgrading its athletic facilities and resources, and like Houston, Cincy, and UCF basically has the athletic infrastructure and results on the field/court to be regarded as "P5 ready" (USF has the infrastructure, but our results are suffering these days). But Memphis's relatively low academic reputation stands out compared to those schools and is a big demerit, IMO. It's strange, too, because Memphis has also received good corporate funding for its academics as well. It just hasn't translated in to higher academic performance.

Not that it matters this moment, because no P5 is expanding, but you want to be ready because you never know.

Memphis' endowment is like 220 million while Houston's is around 945 million and Cincy's is over a billion. Money is a factor.

No telling how many Memphis economy dollars are now sitting in endowment funds at Ole Miss, Tenn, and Arkansas.
09-11-2019 11:55 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Memphis vs Southern - FCS/FBS Disparities
(09-11-2019 11:01 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 09:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 10:17 PM)pkptigers07 Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 02:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 01:52 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Wealth is relative.

Remember Grambling players went on strike because they had to ride bus from northeast Louisiana to Kansas City or St. Louis and the ceiling of the weight room leaked and they had a poorly controlled MRSA outbreak traced to the weight room.

I suspect most SWAC teams would be impressed by the typical Southland or OVC set-up. The typical Southland or OVC would be impressed by the typical SBC/CUSA/AAC setup and so on.

I think that was my point, LOL.

People always talk about the disparities above them. E.g., a Memphis fan will complain about all the advantages Tennessee has being in the SEC. But there are schools below Memphis in the pecking order, and to them Memphis has it made, etc.

This is very true. Memphis is one of the best resourced non-P5 programs over the past 5-7 years. Yet compared to UT, as an institution we receive $1 for every $2 they receive in state funding which is about 30% of the university’s funding. When you factor in the differences in ticket sales and conference distributions, the two are really worlds apart.

From a funding standpoint, Southern is likely as far away from Memphis as Memphis is from
UT.

Yes, SU has an athletic budget of $14 million. Memphis is what, in the $50m range, so way ahead. Tennessee is surely well over $100m.

Memphis basically needs a "university its athletics department can be proud of". Memphis has done a fantastic job upgrading its athletic facilities and resources, and like Houston, Cincy, and UCF basically has the athletic infrastructure and results on the field/court to be regarded as "P5 ready" (USF has the infrastructure, but our results are suffering these days). But Memphis's relatively low academic reputation stands out compared to those schools and is a big demerit, IMO. It's strange, too, because Memphis has also received good corporate funding for its academics as well. It just hasn't translated in to higher academic performance.

Not that it matters this moment, because no P5 is expanding, but you want to be ready because you never know.

Memphis' endowment is like 220 million while Houston's is around 945 million and Cincy's is over a billion. Money is a factor.

No question. But e.g. UCF's endowment is just $185m. USF's is $450m, but was in the 200s a decade ago. In 2009 we started a campaign to raise $1 Billion and hit the target in 2017. Not all went to the endowment but it did push it upwards significantly.

Money has to be hustled for by everyone, unless you are an Ivy, or get oil gusher money in Texas.
09-11-2019 12:21 PM
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pkptigers07 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Memphis vs Southern - FCS/FBS Disparities
(09-11-2019 09:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 10:17 PM)pkptigers07 Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 02:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 01:52 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 01:41 PM)Mav Wrote:  I guess when you don't want to come out and admit your status as a SWAC school limits you to borderline D2 talent, you look for excuses. I know when I think of wealthy, spoiled football programs, Memphis isn't on that list. If throwing money at the problems you have is how you fix them, then why does Tennessee still suck?

Wealth is relative.

Remember Grambling players went on strike because they had to ride bus from northeast Louisiana to Kansas City or St. Louis and the ceiling of the weight room leaked and they had a poorly controlled MRSA outbreak traced to the weight room.

I suspect most SWAC teams would be impressed by the typical Southland or OVC set-up. The typical Southland or OVC would be impressed by the typical SBC/CUSA/AAC setup and so on.

I think that was my point, LOL.

People always talk about the disparities above them. E.g., a Memphis fan will complain about all the advantages Tennessee has being in the SEC. But there are schools below Memphis in the pecking order, and to them Memphis has it made, etc.

This is very true. Memphis is one of the best resourced non-P5 programs over the past 5-7 years. Yet compared to UT, as an institution we receive $1 for every $2 they receive in state funding which is about 30% of the university’s funding. When you factor in the differences in ticket sales and conference distributions, the two are really worlds apart.

From a funding standpoint, Southern is likely as far away from Memphis as Memphis is from
UT.

Yes, SU has an athletic budget of $14 million. Memphis is what, in the $50m range, so way ahead. Tennessee is surely well over $100m.

Memphis basically needs a "university its athletics department can be proud of". Memphis has done a fantastic job upgrading its athletic facilities and resources, and like Houston, Cincy, and UCF basically has the athletic infrastructure and results on the field/court to be regarded as "P5 ready" (USF has the infrastructure, but our results are suffering these days). But Memphis's relatively low academic reputation stands out compared to those schools and is a big demerit, IMO. It's strange, too, because Memphis has also received good corporate funding for its academics as well. It just hasn't translated in to higher academic performance.

Not that it matters this moment, because no P5 is expanding, but you want to be ready because you never know.

Memphis’s academic reputation is improving by leaps and bounds. Ranked for the first time ever by USNWR this year. We are also expected to reach R1 Carnegie classification and in 2022. 4 year graduation rates have doubled in the past year while 6 year graduation rates have increased by 25% in the past 3 years.

Historically we have suffered from weak leadership and a governing board that was dominated by 2 year schools and technical centers. Our own governing board and current president have had tremendous impact in a short period. I think you’ll continue to see our academic profile rise over the next several years.
09-11-2019 09:48 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Memphis vs Southern - FCS/FBS Disparities
(09-09-2019 12:24 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  Nutrition, training & practice habits are not exactly secrets
Fancy weights are still just weights
Practice habits are on the coach
Nutrition is education

Yet programs with the best facilities and nutrition tend to win more and attract the best talent. Who’d a thunk it.
09-12-2019 12:16 AM
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Post: #31
RE: Memphis vs Southern - FCS/FBS Disparities
(09-11-2019 09:48 PM)pkptigers07 Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 09:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 10:17 PM)pkptigers07 Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 02:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 01:52 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Wealth is relative.

Remember Grambling players went on strike because they had to ride bus from northeast Louisiana to Kansas City or St. Louis and the ceiling of the weight room leaked and they had a poorly controlled MRSA outbreak traced to the weight room.

I suspect most SWAC teams would be impressed by the typical Southland or OVC set-up. The typical Southland or OVC would be impressed by the typical SBC/CUSA/AAC setup and so on.

I think that was my point, LOL.

People always talk about the disparities above them. E.g., a Memphis fan will complain about all the advantages Tennessee has being in the SEC. But there are schools below Memphis in the pecking order, and to them Memphis has it made, etc.

This is very true. Memphis is one of the best resourced non-P5 programs over the past 5-7 years. Yet compared to UT, as an institution we receive $1 for every $2 they receive in state funding which is about 30% of the university’s funding. When you factor in the differences in ticket sales and conference distributions, the two are really worlds apart.

From a funding standpoint, Southern is likely as far away from Memphis as Memphis is from
UT.

Yes, SU has an athletic budget of $14 million. Memphis is what, in the $50m range, so way ahead. Tennessee is surely well over $100m.

Memphis basically needs a "university its athletics department can be proud of". Memphis has done a fantastic job upgrading its athletic facilities and resources, and like Houston, Cincy, and UCF basically has the athletic infrastructure and results on the field/court to be regarded as "P5 ready" (USF has the infrastructure, but our results are suffering these days). But Memphis's relatively low academic reputation stands out compared to those schools and is a big demerit, IMO. It's strange, too, because Memphis has also received good corporate funding for its academics as well. It just hasn't translated in to higher academic performance.

Not that it matters this moment, because no P5 is expanding, but you want to be ready because you never know.

Memphis’s academic reputation is improving by leaps and bounds. Ranked for the first time ever by USNWR this year. We are also expected to reach R1 Carnegie classification and in 2022. 4 year graduation rates have doubled in the past year while 6 year graduation rates have increased by 25% in the past 3 years.

Historically we have suffered from weak leadership and a governing board that was dominated by 2 year schools and technical centers. Our own governing board and current president have had tremendous impact in a short period. I think you’ll continue to see our academic profile rise over the next several years.

That would be great for Memphis, because IMO that's why you didn't make the Big 12 finalist list a couple years back.

To me, there are three things a P5 looks for in a possible G5. Note that "brand value" isn't here because there really isn't much difference among candidates on this:

1) Academics

2) Athletics Infrastructure

3) Results on the field and court (football and men's hoops)

Academics is a threshold issue. You don't have to be Harvard, but you can't be too low either. IMO, the threshold is about USNWR 125. Maybe 150 if your results are truly outstanding.

When I think about the AAC "Big 5" - USF, UCF, Memphis, Houston, and Cincy - this is how i rate them on those, and yes, I am all for USF, so bash me for bias if you want:

1) Cincy ... the only school that currently meets all three criteria.

2) UCF/Houston .... meet criteria 2 and 3, approaching criteria 1.

4) USF ................ meets criteria 1 and 2, lags significantly on 3.

5) Memphis ......... meets criteria 2 and 3, lags significantly on 1.

The reason I put USF ahead of Memphis is i think our problem is a quicker fix. It's easier to turn a 6-6 football team in to a 9-3 one than it is to rise in the academic rankings.

But if Memphis can move in to that 125-150 academics range, then you'd be right there with Cincy.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2019 09:45 AM by quo vadis.)
09-12-2019 09:42 AM
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Post: #32
RE: Memphis vs Southern - FCS/FBS Disparities
(09-12-2019 12:16 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  
(09-09-2019 12:24 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  Nutrition, training & practice habits are not exactly secrets
Fancy weights are still just weights
Practice habits are on the coach
Nutrition is education

Yet programs with the best facilities and nutrition tend to win more and attract the best talent. Who’d a thunk it.

Is it because they have best facilities and nutrition that they win more and attract the best talent or do they have facilities and nutrition because they win and have well established brands that get a lot of exposure and thus creates the means to afford those extras.
09-12-2019 11:23 AM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Memphis vs Southern - FCS/FBS Disparities
(09-09-2019 04:58 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(09-09-2019 04:18 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-09-2019 03:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-09-2019 03:21 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-09-2019 12:24 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  Nutrition, training & practice habits are not exactly secrets
Fancy weights are still just weights
Practice habits are on the coach
Nutrition is education

Training table nutrition tends to not be cheap.

I think you can do it without steak all the time.

It's not 1965.

Training tables where budgets are large tend to get dominated by expensive "franken food".

Where budgets are lower, look for a lot of available chicken as well as peanut butter.

Weird, I haven't seen any "franken foods" in any of the Clemson Football Vlogs when the nutrition staff has been featured. Seen a lot of pasta, vegetables and lean meats, but nothing you couldn't get at your local grocery store.

Best part of our nutrition program is the fact that the staff takes the time to teach these young men how to prepare their own food. From grilling steaks to making healthy tacos to making healthy pizzas, to various pasta dishes.

Case in point demonstrated in this week's Clemson Football Vlog



09-13-2019 09:42 PM
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