(09-10-2019 11:02 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 11:45 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  Cincinnati always seems to be stuck in that 120-150 range for the past decade, wish we could start making some real movement up this list. I believe Cincinnati's priority has been increasing enrollment over admission standards as they have the most students starting classes ever (~46k) for the 7th straight year in a row. This has hurt their climb up the ranks but obviously helped their bottom line. I wonder how high Cincinnati's enrollment will go.

I am going to try to explain this without offending. A school like UC should never climb too high. The purpose if that university is to expand across Ohio but ALSO to serve the city they reside in. Same goes for several other AAC schools. Americans obsess over rankings, without seeing purpose. Look at the rankings, how many of those top schools are serving their community? Their graduates spread out across the nation or the globe after completing their degree, which is neither right or wrong, just different. UCF gets offended by having local commuters, u know what, why is that so bad? Other than you can’t pound your chest with rankings? Maybe u should be proud to be part of the growth in the Orlando market? That having locals isn’t so bad and serves your role.

This is the reason I have respect for WVU as an academic institution. They have stated that their main purpose is to provide higher education for the state of West Virginia (which, to be frank, isn’t going to provide top-notch applicants across the board) and focus on maintaining that rather than the rankings. They’ll never be Harvard or even UVA, but that principle is admirable. They know their institutional purpose and the school is okay with serving that to the best of its ability.

(09-10-2019 12:25 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 11:45 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  Cincinnati always seems to be stuck in that 120-150 range for the past decade, wish we could start making some real movement up this list. I believe Cincinnati's priority has been increasing enrollment over admission standards as they have the most students starting classes ever (~46k) for the 7th straight year in a row. This has hurt their climb up the ranks but obviously helped their bottom line. I wonder how high Cincinnati's enrollment will go.

The conventional wisdom holds that UC's rating also suffers because its co-op offerings (business, engineering, etc.) are five-year programs, which adversely affects the four-year-graduation-rate metric. If that's indeed true, I can't imagine why USN&WR wouldn't acknowledge that folks who complete a five-year program in five years are just as diligent as those who complete a standard four-year program in four.

I also agree that seeking ever higher enrollment at the expense of selectivity is a downer.

If memory serves, Florida employs a quota system to fill its state schools, with only a certain number of kids from each high school being allowed to attend a particular state university. Thus, each kid is inclined to apply to each and every state university with the understanding that, if they're academically qualified, they'll certainly be accepted into one of them, but not necessarily their first choice or the one closest to home. I'm sure the policy promotes diversity (not all the brightest kids or the ones from the most affluent high schools get to go to Gainesville, for example), but it also means that every state university gets far more applications than it otherwise would. As the ratio of applications to admissions rises, so too does apparent selectivity, even though falsely driven by the quota system. That may explain at least a part of USF's climb in the rankings.

Us News only looks at six year graduation rates.

(09-10-2019 11:02 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 11:45 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  Cincinnati always seems to be stuck in that 120-150 range for the past decade, wish we could start making some real movement up this list. I believe Cincinnati's priority has been increasing enrollment over admission standards as they have the most students starting classes ever (~46k) for the 7th straight year in a row. This has hurt their climb up the ranks but obviously helped their bottom line. I wonder how high Cincinnati's enrollment will go.

I am going to try to explain this without offending. A school like UC should never climb too high. The purpose if that university is to expand across Ohio but ALSO to serve the city they reside in. Same goes for several other AAC schools. Americans obsess over rankings, without seeing purpose. Look at the rankings, how many of those top schools are serving their community? Their graduates spread out across the nation or the globe after completing their degree, which is neither right or wrong, just different. UCF gets offended by having local commuters, u know what, why is that so bad? Other than you can’t pound your chest with rankings? Maybe u should be proud to be part of the growth in the Orlando market? That having locals isn’t so bad and serves your role.

A decade or so ago UC did have a goal to join the Top 100 ranks of this report. UC faced a lot of criticism from grievance groups for the very reason you stated- they became a little too exclusive. They now have in their mission statement a goal to add more graduates from Cincinnati Public Schools, more First Generation college students, etc.

The other factors that has contributed to our stymied growth in these rankings is the fact Ohio has cut funding to Higher Ed to the tune of $7B over the last decade. Also, the number of college aged students in Ohio has decreased due to population shifts. This makes it pretty hard to be too selective.

(09-10-2019 09:07 PM)Cattidude Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 06:04 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 04:29 PM)Cattidude Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 11:45 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  Cincinnati always seems to be stuck in that 120-150 range for the past decade, wish we could start making some real movement up this list. I believe Cincinnati's priority has been increasing enrollment over admission standards as they have the most students starting classes ever (~46k) for the 7th straight year in a row. This has hurt their climb up the ranks but obviously helped their bottom line. I wonder how high Cincinnati's enrollment will go.

That's not exactly true. With the increase in enrollment UC has actually had an increase in the average ACT and SAT scores along with an increase of the average GPA of students coming in.

But those average GPAs/scores would be higher if they were flat on enrollment. Hard to prioritize both at the same time but Cincy is obviously heading in the right direction, just not necessarily translating to the rankings as much as we would like. AAU and top 100 needs to be the goal for Cincinnati for realignment purposes.

I'm saying that UC has been able to increase enrollment size while also having higher incoming GPA and ACT scores. It's not like it has to be one or the other. UC has been able to do both and UC has done a great job of both. I think UC will stop expanding enrollment here soon. I think their goal is probably close to 50k total. Once that happens they can put even more focus on admissions.

The growth of both campuses and the investment in facilities and staff will also pay dividends here in the near future

I know what you were saying, but the point I was making is UC could be even more selective if they weren't also trying to increase enrollment concurrently. Regardless, I'm sure we both agree that Cincy is taking the right steps forward and I agree on your assessment that Cincy is positioned well right now thanks to some strategic investments in infrastructure and staff.

(09-11-2019 08:14 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 11:02 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 11:45 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  Cincinnati always seems to be stuck in that 120-150 range for the past decade, wish we could start making some real movement up this list. I believe Cincinnati's priority has been increasing enrollment over admission standards as they have the most students starting classes ever (~46k) for the 7th straight year in a row. This has hurt their climb up the ranks but obviously helped their bottom line. I wonder how high Cincinnati's enrollment will go.

I am going to try to explain this without offending. A school like UC should never climb too high. The purpose if that university is to expand across Ohio but ALSO to serve the city they reside in. Same goes for several other AAC schools. Americans obsess over rankings, without seeing purpose. Look at the rankings, how many of those top schools are serving their community? Their graduates spread out across the nation or the globe after completing their degree, which is neither right or wrong, just different. UCF gets offended by having local commuters, u know what, why is that so bad? Other than you can’t pound your chest with rankings? Maybe u should be proud to be part of the growth in the Orlando market? That having locals isn’t so bad and serves your role.

A decade or so ago UC did have a goal to join the Top 100 ranks of this report. UC faced a lot of criticism from grievance groups for the very reason you stated- they became a little too exclusive. They now have in their mission statement a goal to add more graduates from Cincinnati Public Schools, more First Generation college students, etc.

The other factors that has contributed to our stymied growth in these rankings is the fact Ohio has cut funding to Higher Ed to the tune of $7B over the last decade. Also, the number of college aged students in Ohio has decreased due to population shifts. This makes it pretty hard to be too selective.

Yeah, a lot of factors holding us back, but one factor worth mentioning that's pushing us forward is the drop in enrollment across many other Ohio public universities (mostly MAC schools). Cincinnati is clearly establishing itself as the #2 major university in Ohio. 20 years ago there was much more parody across the state schools not named Ohio State.

You are AAU or you aren't. The other ratings are just whacking off

(09-11-2019 09:24 AM)shere khan Wrote:  You are AAU or you aren't. The other ratings are just whacking off

Yes and no... AAU is the pinnacle but all AAU schools have some commonalities like being in the top 100 of the US News Rankings. Its just a benchmark that shows where you are.

(09-11-2019 09:24 AM)shere khan Wrote:  You are AAU or you aren't. The other ratings are just whacking off

I think you're doing it wrong...

USFFan

(09-11-2019 01:15 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 09:24 AM)shere khan Wrote:  You are AAU or you aren't. The other ratings are just whacking off

I think you're doing it wrong...

USFFan

Georgetown, Brown, Dartmouth and Notre Dame are NOT AAU. #130-ranked Kansas IS. Let's not oversimplify.

(09-10-2019 11:02 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 11:45 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  Cincinnati always seems to be stuck in that 120-150 range for the past decade, wish we could start making some real movement up this list. I believe Cincinnati's priority has been increasing enrollment over admission standards as they have the most students starting classes ever (~46k) for the 7th straight year in a row. This has hurt their climb up the ranks but obviously helped their bottom line. I wonder how high Cincinnati's enrollment will go.

I am going to try to explain this without offending. A school like UC should never climb too high. The purpose if that university is to expand across Ohio but ALSO to serve the city they reside in. Same goes for several other AAC schools. Americans obsess over rankings, without seeing purpose. Look at the rankings, how many of those top schools are serving their community? Their graduates spread out across the nation or the globe after completing their degree, which is neither right or wrong, just different. UCF gets offended by having local commuters, u know what, why is that so bad? Other than you can’t pound your chest with rankings? Maybe u should be proud to be part of the growth in the Orlando market? That having locals isn’t so bad and serves your role.

I actually don't think this is true. UCF has been the state university most engaged with the local community and in working with the local community colleges to ensure effective and successful transfer students. The DirectConnect program was the first of its type and is now being modeled throughout the country. I haven't seen data in a few years, but typically UCF's CC transfers had the highest success metrics thanks to UCF being engaged the first moment they stepped on a CC campus.

What we really should do is game the US News metrics and basically not take a FR class for a few years. Just let the CC transfers keep the population up and have a ridiculous SAT/ACT and admissions rate for the entering class. USNWR doesn't capture CC transfers afaik; it's all focused on the FR class.

(09-11-2019 09:34 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 09:24 AM)shere khan Wrote:  You are AAU or you aren't. The other ratings are just whacking off

Yes and no... AAU is the pinnacle but all AAU schools have some commonalities like being in the top 100 of the US News Rankings. Its just a benchmark that shows where you are.

I agree with you. AAU is the gold standard, but it's also a very limited club. It doesn't reward excellence in teaching or excellence in serving your community. It's only for the cream of the crop research universities that employ hundreds if not thousands of professors who hardly ever even teach a class. They really could give a flip if students are getting good instruction as long as professors are landing big NIH grants and getting cited in top tier journals that no one but academics read.

Just look at some excellent universities that are not in the AAU...Florida State, Georgia, Virginia Tech, NC State, UConn, Oregon State, Miami, Nebraska (kicked out). A big thing that kills some of these schools is either a lack of a medical school or a medical school that is focused on primary care [i.e., training doctors] and not research (Florida State). When you start looking at the other metrics at universities like those examples, you see excellent institutions across the board that for whatever reason (lack of med school, short history of excellence, whatever) that aren't members.

(09-11-2019 01:24 PM)Enriquillo Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 01:15 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 09:24 AM)shere khan Wrote:  You are AAU or you aren't. The other ratings are just whacking off

I think you're doing it wrong...

USFFan

Georgetown, Brown, Dartmouth and Notre Dame are NOT AAU. #130-ranked Kansas IS. Let's not oversimplify.

Whacking off at Georgetown and Notre Dame is STRICTLY prohibited!

USFFan

(09-11-2019 02:32 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 01:24 PM)Enriquillo Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 01:15 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 09:24 AM)shere khan Wrote:  You are AAU or you aren't. The other ratings are just whacking off

I think you're doing it wrong...

USFFan

Georgetown, Brown, Dartmouth and Notre Dame are NOT AAU. #130-ranked Kansas IS. Let's not oversimplify.

Whacking off at Georgetown and Notre Dame is STRICTLY prohibited!

USFFan

You clearly know little about life at Geoegetown and ND.

And I believe it is mandatory at Dartmouth.

(09-10-2019 07:00 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 05:56 PM)Comet Wrote:  Honestly, who ******* cares? I’ve been keeping track of this stuff for 15 years and all schools shoot up and fall down over time. It means nothing.

Truth. I've known some dumb fricks that went to "top" schools.

(09-11-2019 02:41 PM)Enriquillo Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:32 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 01:24 PM)Enriquillo Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 01:15 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 09:24 AM)shere khan Wrote:  You are AAU or you aren't. The other ratings are just whacking off

I think you're doing it wrong...

USFFan

Georgetown, Brown, Dartmouth and Notre Dame are NOT AAU. #130-ranked Kansas IS. Let's not oversimplify.

Whacking off at Georgetown and Notre Dame is STRICTLY prohibited!

USFFan

You clearly know little about life at Geoegetown and ND.

And I believe it is mandatory at Dartmouth.

USFFan

Off season threads suck

(09-11-2019 03:48 PM)usffan Wrote:  

USFFan

Uh, yeah, there's possibly 600 years difference between those two events and, besides, not every religion teaches jerking off is wrong, so can we leave the Science vs. Religion talk at home?

(09-10-2019 10:32 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Memphis is now ranked #135 on the public university list. That is the first time ever, and thus a cause for celebration. The idea that we were a poor academic school was always a false narrative. It was a combination of the criteria favoring land grant schools over urban schools, and the fact no Memphis president has ever promoted our school to his peers.

Plus, we have greatly ramped up our research efforts.

https://dailymemphian.com/article/7356/C...lly-ranked

Memphis State's, and now Memphis's, problem wasn't the school itself so much as the damned Shelby County School System and the Memphis City School system sending them collegiately unqualified dumbasses.

The UofM was seen by many, and may still be seen by many, as an extension of those institutions and was set to received kids who were graduates of those schools. They, however, were not prepared for college and I distinctly remember discussing the dropout rate of the school right after it became the University of Memphis with an administrator - it was killing any dreams of rankings the school had.

Hopefully the city, and the school systems, have come around.

(09-11-2019 05:30 PM)SMUleopold Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 03:48 PM)usffan Wrote:  

USFFan

Uh, yeah, there's possibly 600 years difference between those two events and, besides, not every religion teaches jerking off is wrong, so can we leave the Science vs. Religion talk at home?

JFC, it was a joke based on Shere Khan's post. The context you chose to cut out made it crystal clear. Lighten the F up.

USFFan

(09-11-2019 05:39 PM)SMUleopold Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 10:32 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Memphis is now ranked #135 on the public university list. That is the first time ever, and thus a cause for celebration. The idea that we were a poor academic school was always a false narrative. It was a combination of the criteria favoring land grant schools over urban schools, and the fact no Memphis president has ever promoted our school to his peers.

Plus, we have greatly ramped up our research efforts.

https://dailymemphian.com/article/7356/C...lly-ranked

Memphis State's, and now Memphis's, problem wasn't the school itself so much as the damned Shelby County School System and the Memphis City School system sending them collegiately unqualified dumbasses.

The UofM was seen by many, and may still be seen by many, as an extension of those institutions and was set to received kids who were graduates of those schools. They, however, were not prepared for college and I distinctly remember discussing the dropout rate of the school right after it became the University of Memphis with an administrator - it was killing any dreams of rankings the school had.

Hopefully the city, and the school systems, have come around.

That's it in a nutshell. I've never understood why the university doesn't raise the standards. It hurts the school's academic standing and it doesn't do any favors for students who have no business being accepted in the first place. They flunk out after a semester or two and all they have to show for it, in many cases, is debt.