Is Missouri a better program than UT?

(09-09-2019 12:21 PM)aardWolf Wrote:  

(09-09-2019 12:19 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(09-09-2019 10:27 AM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(09-09-2019 10:16 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(09-08-2019 05:42 PM)memphisike Wrote:  I hope they don't start buying by offering Coach Norvell BIG MONEY

I cannot imagine any scenario in which they offer a Memphis coach their job, effectively admitting Memphis is a better program with a better coach...

That certainly doesn't hold up. That means any time any team hires a new coach they are admitting that the program they hired the coach from is a better program?... no I don't think so. Big time programs hire coaches all the time. The new coaches have to come from somewhere, and they won't be hiring Saban from Alabama or Debo from Clemson.

I agree with your statement in general. However, my statement is specific to UTK and Memphis. UTK is not going to hire a Memphis football coach under any circumstances because in their eyes it is admitting we have a better team and coach and they will never acknowledge that in any way shape or form (including but not limited to the hiring of our head coach).

And if the coach you are hiring isn't better than the one you're replacing, what are you doing? (Obvious exception for backfilling a position that was poached by a better school.)

i think this is closer to where youre at. Mike is probably a better overall HC, but thats mostly because he took over a stable program. Pruitt is recruiting at a high level, he just cant jump start it. UT is smart if they fire Pruitt and bring in a proven big name to take pruitt's recruits.

(09-09-2019 01:36 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  Is Missouri a better program than UT?

Good question... I don’t know.

Missouri absolutely housed us last year and I can't see Tennessee hanging with us in a football game.

(09-09-2019 05:00 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(09-09-2019 01:36 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  Is Missouri a better program than UT?

Good question... I don’t know.

Define better.

(09-08-2019 10:06 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  UT’s problems are far bigger than a disgruntled transfer.

The problem with UT is there isn’t enough talent in the state to consistently win... that coupled with the fact that the border states they used to rely upon now have 2 of the top coaches (Dabo Swinney and Kirby Smart) in the country leading their respective programs. UT can’t win if they can’t pluck top talent out of South Carolina and Georgia.

back in the 1990's, they used to have football camps and such for star players only.
They were penalized by the NCAA for that...and their recruiting started going down a bit after that.
Mark Richt was hired at Georgia...and it totally went into the pot after that.

(09-10-2019 04:42 AM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  

(09-08-2019 10:06 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  UT’s problems are far bigger than a disgruntled transfer.

The problem with UT is there isn’t enough talent in the state to consistently win... that coupled with the fact that the border states they used to rely upon now have 2 of the top coaches (Dabo Swinney and Kirby Smart) in the country leading their respective programs. UT can’t win if they can’t pluck top talent out of South Carolina and Georgia.

back in the 1990's, they used to have football camps and such for star players only.
They were penalized by the NCAA for that...and their recruiting started going down a bit after that.
Mark Richt was hired at Georgia...and it totally went into the pot after that.

...Richt at Georgia and Spurrier at South Carolina. Those states were UT’s recruiting honey holes and those coaches started locking up the top guys from those states.

(09-09-2019 12:04 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(09-08-2019 06:32 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(09-08-2019 10:06 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  UT’s problems are far bigger than a disgruntled transfer.

The problem with UT is there isn’t enough talent in the state to consistently win... that coupled with the fact that the border states they used to rely upon now have 2 of the top coaches (Dabo Swinney and Kirby Smart) in the country leading their respective programs. UT can’t win if they can’t pluck top talent out of South Carolina and Georgia.

The problem with UT is they’ve made a series of really bad hires, let the Haslams muck around with the program and let Fulmer backstab his way into the AD.

Derek Dooley was a bad hire but Butch Jones was a pretty good hire. The problem is with fan expectations. Is it a better job than Florida... no. Is it a better job than Georgia... no. Is it a better job than South Carolina... it’s debatable. Quite frankly, UT is the 3rd or 4th place job in the eastern division of the conference... which is where Butch Jones ended up in most years.

Good luck Jeremy Pruitt.

Probably better than South Carolina - at least they don't have Clemson to compete with in their home state. UT has better talent than both of the teams they lost to, IMO - just poor execution, which is due to coaching.

(09-09-2019 05:00 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(09-09-2019 01:36 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  Is Missouri a better program than UT?

Good question... I don’t know.

At this point, I would rather be the head coach at Missouri. They are the state school with two large population centers and no other real in-state competition. They are also on the outer fringes of SEC country, with only Arkansas and Kentucky as close-by SEC rivals for talent. True, they are next to Big 12 and Big 10 areas, but they are in a pretty good situation, as far as getting players who want to play in the SEC.

Right now UTK has sunk below UK, way below SC & MO in the SEC east. UTK hasn't won the SEC or the SEC-East since 1998 - over 20 yrs. That should tell anyone they are no longer relevant in the SEC & that is why they can't recruit & compete. Even beating Vandy is getting difficult for them.

(09-10-2019 07:41 AM)presskh Wrote:  

(09-09-2019 12:04 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(09-08-2019 06:32 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(09-08-2019 10:06 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  UT’s problems are far bigger than a disgruntled transfer.

The problem with UT is there isn’t enough talent in the state to consistently win... that coupled with the fact that the border states they used to rely upon now have 2 of the top coaches (Dabo Swinney and Kirby Smart) in the country leading their respective programs. UT can’t win if they can’t pluck top talent out of South Carolina and Georgia.

The problem with UT is they’ve made a series of really bad hires, let the Haslams muck around with the program and let Fulmer backstab his way into the AD.

Derek Dooley was a bad hire but Butch Jones was a pretty good hire. The problem is with fan expectations. Is it a better job than Florida... no. Is it a better job than Georgia... no. Is it a better job than South Carolina... it’s debatable. Quite frankly, UT is the 3rd or 4th place job in the eastern division of the conference... which is where Butch Jones ended up in most years.

Good luck Jeremy Pruitt.

Probably better than South Carolina - at least they don't have Clemson to compete with in their home state. UT has better talent than both of the teams they lost to, IMO - just poor execution, which is due to coaching.

South Carolina is a state loaded with talent and Clemson is now recruiting nationally and can’t take them all. Id rather coach at USC.

(09-10-2019 07:54 AM)presskh Wrote:  

(09-09-2019 05:00 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(09-09-2019 01:36 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  Is Missouri a better program than UT?

Good question... I don’t know.

At this point, I would rather be the head coach at Missouri. They are the state school with two large population centers and no other real in-state competition. They are also on the outer fringes of SEC country, with only Arkansas and Kentucky as close-by SEC rivals for talent. True, they are next to Big 12 and Big 10 areas, but they are in a pretty good situation, as far as getting players who want to play in the SEC.

Yep...
Mizzou is a pretty good gig.

(09-09-2019 12:21 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(09-09-2019 12:04 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Derek Dooley was a bad hire but Butch Jones was a pretty good hire. The problem is with fan expectations. Is it a better job than Florida... no. Is it a better job than Georgia... no. Is it a better job than South Carolina... it’s debatable. Quite frankly, UT is the 3rd or 4th place job in the eastern division of the conference... which is where Butch Jones ended up in most years.

Good luck Jeremy Pruitt.

I don't know that Butch Jones was a good hire. He was sensible on paper, I guess and was the best hire of the four since Fulmer. He also did manage to get them to couple of 9 win seasons, which as you said is about where they belong most years. But he was a really bad fit with the Tennessee program and didn't really have the temperament to deal with scrutiny he got in Knoxville and it just seems like everyone involved should have seen that coming.

Exactly right. He looked good on paper. But he was not a pretty good hire in reality. Ask anyone close to the program. The way he managed the program and the resulting culture were bad. Very bad.

Not sure I buy the line about "recruiting is the problem". Their WORST class in the last 6 years has been the #21 ranked class. Over that time, they have averaged the #13 rated recruiting class. Their problem is they are a complete mess from the Chancellor's office to the Athletic dept to the coaching staff(s).

I hope Tennessee continues to lose for another 20 years, but some of these comments are more you guys hoping than reality. It's hard to lose at UT.

All they need is a coach and a functioning administration.

They have tons of money, a passionate fan base, tradition, and it's a very easy school to recruit to. Atlanta, Charlotte and Nashville are all booming and a 3 or 4 hour drive to Knoxville. Even clowns like Butch Jones and their new clown, Pruitt, are able to pull off top classes. 14th in 2016, 17th in 2017, 21st in 2018 and 13th in 2019.

Vawl fans ***** and moan about having to play Bama each year, but their schedule is not hard. The SEC East sucks. This season UT plays all 4 OOC games in Knoxville - Georgia State, BYU, UT Chatt and UAB. Count the game at Vandy and they play 9 games in state.

Now if you said Nebraska, I might agree. The population of the entire state is less than 2 million, and it's aging. The metro Atlanta area by itself is almost 6 million. There are plenty of players to go around.

Hire a Saban or a Dabo or Urban or Gary Patterson or Jimbo or any competent coach and they will have it turned around quickly. I mean, Derek Dooley and Butch Jones, and now Pruitt - they have just hired amazingly bad head coaches. Can't last forever, as much as we can hope it will.

(09-12-2019 02:51 PM)Tigx Wrote:  I hope Tennessee continues to lose for another 20 years,

Post would have been much better if you just stopped right there...

FUT

UTK has been bad for a while now, bad coaching hires, compared to relatively good ones by their SEC neighbors has hurt more than anything. But to pretend Missouri or Kentucky or Vanderbilt or even Memphis is a better athletic program than UTK is fun to say, but just not even close to true. It will take a few more years, but they have all the resources you could ever wish for and the right coach will be there sooner than later. So, we should all have fun now

(09-16-2019 08:09 AM)cmt Wrote:  UTK has been bad for a while now, bad coaching hires, compared to relatively good ones by their SEC neighbors has hurt more than anything. But to pretend Missouri or Kentucky or Vanderbilt or even Memphis is a better athletic program than UTK is fun to say, but just not even close to true. It will take a few more years, but they have all the resources you could ever wish for and the right coach will be there sooner than later. So, we should all have fun now

This idea would be a lot of fun NOW. Replace any SEC team with the University of Memphis. Can you even imagine what we could do with all the money that would come our way? Can you imagine the even better recruiting advantages ? We also would not have to worry every time one of the power conferences is looking for a new coach. Life is sweet right now but it could be even sweeter.
Well, that was a FUN thought for now.

(09-16-2019 08:09 AM)cmt Wrote:  UTK has been bad for a while now, bad coaching hires, compared to relatively good ones by their SEC neighbors has hurt more than anything. But to pretend Missouri or Kentucky or Vanderbilt or even Memphis is a better athletic program than UTK is fun to say, but just not even close to true. It will take a few more years, but they have all the resources you could ever wish for and the right coach will be there sooner than later. So, we should all have fun now

I tend to agree. Success in college football/basketball has everything to do with finding the right coach. And that is not an easy thing to do, no matter the program. Our football team stunk for the better part of 100 years. Then we hired Justin Fuente and got it going. If Norvell continues to succeed and then takes another job, we are one bad hire from going back into a football coma again. Look at Nebraska. Or USC. Or Tennessee.

But it's like you said, those schools have best-in-class facilities, huge fan bases, generate tons of revenue, etc. Still doesn't make hiring the right coach an easy thing. But I think they'll get a Kirby Smart instead of a Jeremy Pruitt sooner or later. Hopefully later.