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bearcatmark Online
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Post: #381
RE: Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
(09-10-2019 02:06 PM)converrl Wrote:  As far as the NC is concerned, this is true...is it not?

You aren't saying "Those teams aren't competing for the National Championship." You are saying they are "at the bottom of the p5 pile." Those are two entirely different things. There are generously 5-10 teams competing for the National Championship. 11-65 isn't all the "bottom of the P5 pile."
 
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2019 02:20 PM by bearcatmark.)
09-10-2019 02:20 PM
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TheGreatNate Offline
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RE: Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
(09-10-2019 02:07 PM)converrl Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 11:45 AM)natibeast21 Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 10:47 AM)converrl Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 10:32 AM)natibeast21 Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 08:33 AM)mlb Wrote:  I could not disagree more about a non-p5 championship. They need an 8 team playoff, for sure, with a non-p5 place in the playoff. But to compete at a lower level then you might as well close up UC athletics because basketball would be forced down a level as well. The P5 is already taking the most of the at large positions in their history.

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Yup. The emergence of the SEC recently as well as other Big Ten and Big 12 teams who have historically been so-so seems to be the upcoming college basketball theme for the foreseen future. Taking that football money and putting some actual focus on basketball. Just look at the coaching hires.

Then how did Villanova win?
How did Loyola make a deep run?
How did UD get to the Final 4?
How did Butler get to the NC twice?

If a school funnels all AD resources to one sport, it can compete in MBB because the program requires fewer $$$ to maintain.

In addition, you only need a handful of players and an effective coach.

Blue chippers will take up a lot of those positions, but the fact that the tourney has annual Cinderella stories works against that assumption.

There are always going to be outliers.
Villanova-As much as I hate the Big East they are considered a power in b-ball and so is the American.
Loyola- So your going to play 100+ years of b-ball just because of one final four appearance? Seems like a waste of money!
Butler- Great coach that led them to a power b-ball conference. Ala Utah (Urban) and TCU (Patterson) in football.
UD-Same as Loyola. They were close to being a Xavier though. Just like I would say we were close to being a Pitt, Louisville, etc.


Ever heard of Boise, Houston, UCF, Western Michigan...imo making a New Year’s Day bowl as a G5 school has the same prestige as those one off basketball final fours if not more. Wonder how many will remember Loyola ever making a final four in 30 years.

Why not go one step further and have those FCS schools that win their bowl games enter a playoff for an FCS National Championship? What about that would be detrimental to CFB or the FCS?

Is this sarcasm? You do know what FCS stands for right? Football Championship Subdivision. FCS schools already decide their champion through a tournament, they don't play bowl games.
 
09-10-2019 02:38 PM
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bearcat29 Offline
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Post: #383
RE: Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
(09-10-2019 02:20 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 02:06 PM)converrl Wrote:  As far as the NC is concerned, this is true...is it not?

You aren't saying "Those teams aren't competing for the National Championship." You are saying they are "at the bottom of the p5 pile." Those are two entirely different things. There are generously 5-10 teams competing for the National Championship. 11-65 isn't all the "bottom of the P5 pile."
To be a in mix for a national title you need to be in a P5 conference, have a 70K+ stadium and a good coach. That precludes a decent amount of the P5.

This happens every time UC gets beat pretty good by a lesser opponent or a big time opponent. The fan base was over their skis a bit with a better than expected season last year. I thought this year would be good (8-9 win season)
but I think next year will be better.

UC will probably never be able to compete with Alabama or big state's of the world. I am fine with that. They can still be a fun team to watch, win 10 games and beat decent p5 teams while being ranked in the top 25.

Even if UC gets in a P5 conference with the resources, it is hard to compete with the blue bloods and the unlimited resources. Hell, Tennessee has problems for a decade or two and they have all the tools to succeed.
 
09-10-2019 02:39 PM
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converrl Offline
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Post: #384
RE: Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
(09-10-2019 02:38 PM)TheGreatNate Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 02:07 PM)converrl Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 11:45 AM)natibeast21 Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 10:47 AM)converrl Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 10:32 AM)natibeast21 Wrote:  Yup. The emergence of the SEC recently as well as other Big Ten and Big 12 teams who have historically been so-so seems to be the upcoming college basketball theme for the foreseen future. Taking that football money and putting some actual focus on basketball. Just look at the coaching hires.

Then how did Villanova win?
How did Loyola make a deep run?
How did UD get to the Final 4?
How did Butler get to the NC twice?

If a school funnels all AD resources to one sport, it can compete in MBB because the program requires fewer $$$ to maintain.

In addition, you only need a handful of players and an effective coach.

Blue chippers will take up a lot of those positions, but the fact that the tourney has annual Cinderella stories works against that assumption.

There are always going to be outliers.
Villanova-As much as I hate the Big East they are considered a power in b-ball and so is the American.
Loyola- So your going to play 100+ years of b-ball just because of one final four appearance? Seems like a waste of money!
Butler- Great coach that led them to a power b-ball conference. Ala Utah (Urban) and TCU (Patterson) in football.
UD-Same as Loyola. They were close to being a Xavier though. Just like I would say we were close to being a Pitt, Louisville, etc.


Ever heard of Boise, Houston, UCF, Western Michigan...imo making a New Year’s Day bowl as a G5 school has the same prestige as those one off basketball final fours if not more. Wonder how many will remember Loyola ever making a final four in 30 years.

Why not go one step further and have those FCS schools that win their bowl games enter a playoff for an FCS National Championship? What about that would be detrimental to CFB or the FCS?

Is this sarcasm? You do know what FCS stands for right? Football Championship Subdivision. FCS schools already decide their champion through a tournament, they don't play bowl games.

Substitute non P5 for FCS if that helps.
 
09-10-2019 06:36 PM
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RE: Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
Hell I'd be shocked if the Champs this year are anyone other than Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia and maaaybe LSU
 
09-10-2019 07:40 PM
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RE: Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
(09-10-2019 07:40 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Hell I'd be shocked if the Champs this year are anyone other than Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia and maaaybe LSU
I mean let's be honest. Given the last four years it'd be shocking if anyone besides Clemson or Alabama won.

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RE: Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
(09-10-2019 08:27 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 07:40 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Hell I'd be shocked if the Champs this year are anyone other than Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia and maaaybe LSU
I mean let's be honest. Given the last four years it'd be shocking if anyone besides Clemson or Alabama won.

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If you go back the past 10 seasons, Bama has won 5 chips. That's a pretty good run and a select VIP club to boot:

5 - Bama
2 - Clemson
1 - Florida
1 - Florida St
1 - Ohio St

Go back 20 seasons:

5 - Bama
2 - Clemson
2 - Florida
2 - Florida St
2 - LSU
2 - Ohio St
1 - Auburn
1 - Miami, FL
1 - Oklahoma
1 - Texas
1 - USC

The SEC has accounted for 10 chips thanks in large part to Mr. Saban's Opus [6 total].
 
09-10-2019 09:04 PM
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RE: Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
(09-10-2019 07:40 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Hell I'd be shocked if the Champs this year are anyone other than Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia and maaaybe LSU

I’d include Oklahoma and LSU is definitely in the mix (just need to get their D up to their standard...their D is loaded so im sure they will) but yup besides that Wisconsin has looked strong.

I haven’t seen anyone yet comparable to those teams. Although it’s very young in the season.
 
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RE: Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
(09-10-2019 09:34 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 07:40 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Hell I'd be shocked if the Champs this year are anyone other than Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia and maaaybe LSU

I’d include Oklahoma and LSU is definitely in the mix (just need to get their D up to their standard...their D is loaded so im sure they will) but yup besides that Wisconsin has looked strong.

I haven’t seen anyone yet comparable to those teams. Although it’s very young in the season.

In my hierarchy of hate, tosu is extremely high up there. However, after the curb stomping on Saturday, I now feel compelled to hope they make the title game in order to justify how bad the Bearcats looked.
 
09-11-2019 12:49 AM
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RE: Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
One thing I believe a lot of people overlooked is how important this game was to Ryan Day and OSU. Fickell was probably the last coach from a G5 team that they were going to overlook. Especially considering the strides he has made at UC and on the recruiting trail.

Make no mistake, Ryan Day wanted to make sure the Buckeyes won that game and won it in convincing fashion. Leading up to the game everybody talked about how it was a big deal for CLF, but we ignored how important it was on the flip side.
 
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2019 04:26 AM by C1ncy4Life.)
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RE: Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
(09-10-2019 09:04 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 08:27 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 07:40 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Hell I'd be shocked if the Champs this year are anyone other than Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia and maaaybe LSU
I mean let's be honest. Given the last four years it'd be shocking if anyone besides Clemson or Alabama won.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

If you go back the past 10 seasons, Bama has won 5 chips. That's a pretty good run and a select VIP club to boot:

5 - Bama
2 - Clemson
1 - Florida
1 - Florida St
1 - Ohio St

Go back 20 seasons:

5 - Bama
2 - Clemson
2 - Florida
2 - Florida St
2 - LSU
2 - Ohio St
1 - Auburn
1 - Miami, FL
1 - Oklahoma
1 - Texas
1 - USC

The SEC has accounted for 10 chips thanks in large part to Mr. Saban's Opus [6 total].
Substitute Auburn, 2010, for Florida 2008.
 
09-11-2019 05:09 AM
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RE: Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
(09-10-2019 09:34 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 07:40 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Hell I'd be shocked if the Champs this year are anyone other than Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia and maaaybe LSU

I’d include Oklahoma and LSU is definitely in the mix (just need to get their D up to their standard...their D is loaded so im sure they will) but yup besides that Wisconsin has looked strong.

I haven’t seen anyone yet comparable to those teams. Although it’s very young in the season.

Knew I forgot someone. Oklahoma has a shot too.
 
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RE: Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
(09-10-2019 09:04 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 08:27 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 07:40 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Hell I'd be shocked if the Champs this year are anyone other than Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia and maaaybe LSU
I mean let's be honest. Given the last four years it'd be shocking if anyone besides Clemson or Alabama won.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

If you go back the past 10 seasons, Bama has won 5 chips. That's a pretty good run and a select VIP club to boot:

5 - Bama
2 - Clemson
1 - Florida
1 - Florida St
1 - Ohio St

Go back 20 seasons:

5 - Bama
2 - Clemson
2 - Florida
2 - Florida St
2 - LSU
2 - Ohio St
1 - Auburn
1 - Miami, FL
1 - Oklahoma
1 - Texas
1 - USC

The SEC has accounted for 10 chips thanks in large part to Mr. Saban's Opus [6 total].

For all the talk we hear living in B10 country about how great that conference is, other than OSU (especially under Urban) no other school up north has been able to run with the big dogs from down south for a national championship the past two decades.

Michigan, arguably the other standard bearer in the B10, gave up 62 in Columbus last season and fell by more than two touchdowns, losing for the 14th time in 15 years in the series.

Maybe Michigan should drop football and allocate those resources to its basketball program?
05-stirthepot
 
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Banter Offline
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RE: Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
(09-11-2019 07:11 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 09:04 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 08:27 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 07:40 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Hell I'd be shocked if the Champs this year are anyone other than Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia and maaaybe LSU
I mean let's be honest. Given the last four years it'd be shocking if anyone besides Clemson or Alabama won.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

If you go back the past 10 seasons, Bama has won 5 chips. That's a pretty good run and a select VIP club to boot:

5 - Bama
2 - Clemson
1 - Florida
1 - Florida St
1 - Ohio St

Go back 20 seasons:

5 - Bama
2 - Clemson
2 - Florida
2 - Florida St
2 - LSU
2 - Ohio St
1 - Auburn
1 - Miami, FL
1 - Oklahoma
1 - Texas
1 - USC

The SEC has accounted for 10 chips thanks in large part to Mr. Saban's Opus [6 total].

For all the talk we hear living in B10 country about how great that conference is, other than OSU (especially under Urban) no other school up north has been able to run with the big dogs from down south for a national championship the past two decades.

Michigan, arguably the other standard bearer in the B10, gave up 62 in Columbus last season and fell by more than two touchdowns, losing for the 14th time in 15 years in the series.

Maybe Michigan should drop football and allocate those resources to its basketball program?
05-stirthepot

Since the firing of Lloyd Carr I would say Wisconsin has been the 2nd standard bearer in the Big 10. Michigan has failed to meet any expectations over the past decade...Wisconsin meets expectations but fails on the big stage.
 
09-11-2019 07:33 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
(09-11-2019 07:11 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 09:04 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 08:27 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 07:40 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Hell I'd be shocked if the Champs this year are anyone other than Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia and maaaybe LSU
I mean let's be honest. Given the last four years it'd be shocking if anyone besides Clemson or Alabama won.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

If you go back the past 10 seasons, Bama has won 5 chips. That's a pretty good run and a select VIP club to boot:

5 - Bama
2 - Clemson
1 - Florida
1 - Florida St
1 - Ohio St

Go back 20 seasons:

5 - Bama
2 - Clemson
2 - Florida
2 - Florida St
2 - LSU
2 - Ohio St
1 - Auburn
1 - Miami, FL
1 - Oklahoma
1 - Texas
1 - USC

The SEC has accounted for 10 chips thanks in large part to Mr. Saban's Opus [6 total].

For all the talk we hear living in B10 country about how great that conference is, other than OSU (especially under Urban) no other school up north has been able to run with the big dogs from down south for a national championship the past two decades.

Michigan, arguably the other standard bearer in the B10, gave up 62 in Columbus last season and fell by more than two touchdowns, losing for the 14th time in 15 years in the series.

Maybe Michigan should drop football and allocate those resources to its basketball program?
05-stirthepot

Touche

I was thinking about this yesterday, seeing that we have won 13 straight from Miami U and our results against tOSU. Here are tOSU's lifetime records vs. their conference mates:

v. Indiana 75-12-5 (last loss 1988- 7/12 Ls came before WWII).
v. Illinois 69-30-4
v Iowa 47-15-3
v. Michigan 51-58-6 (only 3 UM wins since 2000s).
v. Michigan State 32-15
v. Minnesota 46-7 (only 3 victories over tOSU after the 1950s).
v. Nebraska 7-1 (1 victory came before NU was in conference).
v. Northwestern 62-14-1 (half of the wins prior to WWII, only two wins over tOSU after 1971).
v. Penn State 20-14 (most competitive with OSU over the last 25 years, most of wins came prior to being in conference).
v. Purdue 40-15-2 (3 victories over tOSU in last 10 years).
v. Rutgers 5-0 (tOSU has outscored them 262-27)
v. Wisconsin 59-18-5 (the Badgers dominated tOSU prior to WWI).

I guess we shouldn't feel so bad getting rocked by tOSU last week. With all of the benefits, riches and rewards of being in the B10, none of these other teams save Penn State and Michigan can compete with the Buckeyes either.
 
09-11-2019 07:42 AM
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RE: Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
(09-11-2019 07:33 AM)Banter Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 07:11 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 09:04 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 08:27 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  
(09-10-2019 07:40 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Hell I'd be shocked if the Champs this year are anyone other than Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia and maaaybe LSU
I mean let's be honest. Given the last four years it'd be shocking if anyone besides Clemson or Alabama won.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

If you go back the past 10 seasons, Bama has won 5 chips. That's a pretty good run and a select VIP club to boot:

5 - Bama
2 - Clemson
1 - Florida
1 - Florida St
1 - Ohio St

Go back 20 seasons:

5 - Bama
2 - Clemson
2 - Florida
2 - Florida St
2 - LSU
2 - Ohio St
1 - Auburn
1 - Miami, FL
1 - Oklahoma
1 - Texas
1 - USC

The SEC has accounted for 10 chips thanks in large part to Mr. Saban's Opus [6 total].

For all the talk we hear living in B10 country about how great that conference is, other than OSU (especially under Urban) no other school up north has been able to run with the big dogs from down south for a national championship the past two decades.

Michigan, arguably the other standard bearer in the B10, gave up 62 in Columbus last season and fell by more than two touchdowns, losing for the 14th time in 15 years in the series.

Maybe Michigan should drop football and allocate those resources to its basketball program?
05-stirthepot

Since the firing of Lloyd Carr I would say Wisconsin has been the 2nd standard bearer in the Big 10. Michigan has failed to meet any expectations over the past decade...Wisconsin meets expectations but fails on the big stage.

Since 1993 Whisky has won loss record of 15-9 in bowl games. They have won their last 5 bowl games against Auburn-Outback, USC-Holiday, WMU-Cotton, Orange-Miami, Pinstripe-Miami. I think Michigan is around 11-13 in bowl games during this same span.
 
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RE: Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
(09-11-2019 10:26 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Since 1993 Whisky has won loss record of 15-9 in bowl games. They have won their last 5 bowl games against Auburn-Outback, USC-Holiday, WMU-Cotton, Orange-Miami, Pinstripe-Miami. I think Michigan is around 11-13 in bowl games during this same span.

Bowl records mean slightly more to me than pre-season NFL records. You have taken weeks off and gotten completely out of the rhythm of playing football. A decent percentage of teams are playing with either new staffs for shell staffs. Bigger name teams get bigger bowl games than they should based on record so the play tougher opponents even when they aren't that good. And more than any of those some teams treat them as vacations and some are highly motivated.

For instance last year people use Texas beating Georgia as reasoning for Texas being back. In my opinion it had a heck of a lot more to do with UGA not being interested after missing the playoffs. The one year Bama actually missed the playoffs they lost to a mediocre Oklahoma in the Sugar Bowl.
 
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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RE: Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
(09-11-2019 11:20 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 10:26 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Since 1993 Whisky has won loss record of 15-9 in bowl games. They have won their last 5 bowl games against Auburn-Outback, USC-Holiday, WMU-Cotton, Orange-Miami, Pinstripe-Miami. I think Michigan is around 11-13 in bowl games during this same span.

Bowl records mean slightly more to me than pre-season NFL records. You have taken weeks off and gotten completely out of the rhythm of playing football. A decent percentage of teams are playing with either new staffs for shell staffs. Bigger name teams get bigger bowl games than they should based on record so the play tougher opponents even when they aren't that good. And more than any of those some teams treat them as vacations and some are highly motivated.

For instance last year people use Texas beating Georgia as reasoning for Texas being back. In my opinion it had a heck of a lot more to do with UGA not being interested after missing the playoffs. The one year Bama actually missed the playoffs they lost to a mediocre Oklahoma in the Sugar Bowl.

My post was about Whisky-Michigan. Banter suggested that since Carr got fired Whisky has probably been the 2nd best Big Ten team. Since 2008 Whisky has 7 seasons with 10 plus wins, Michigan has 4. Michigan has had 1, 11 win season during that span and Wisconsin has had 5 seasons of at least 11 wins during this span, including 1, 13 win season.

So I am confirming what Banter said, nothing more.
 
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2019 11:45 AM by SuperFlyBCat.)
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Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
MSU did get destroyed by Alabama in the playoff a few years back though, lol.

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RE: Game Day thread: Cincy vs. osu
(09-09-2019 01:23 AM)converrl Wrote:  
(09-08-2019 08:01 PM)mlb Wrote:  I'm guessing he is a professor at UC. He thinks that athletics is a drain on his ability to make money. What he doesn't understand is I give money to UCATS and the college of business and without football I'd never be on campus to be enticed to give that money. I.m quite sure that is a regular occurence. There is a reason why they invite me to CoB tailgates every homecoming where they beg for money for whatever new initiative they have going on.

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I am an instructor at UC, but I don't hate athletics...I hate pursuing impossible scenarios that are a waste of $$$..UC FB is NEVER going to be in the conversation for a National Championship...and to spend $$$ like it will be is a waste of time.

MBB on the other hand has a theoretical shot at a NC every year you make the field of 68...unlike the BCS. It's also CHEAPER to maintain.

IF UC had a history of championship FB and IF UC didn't have to recruit against the likes of OSU and Notre Dame and Michigan and UL and on and on...then I'd sing a different tune. But they are where they are.

If UC wants FB, that's fine, but it's time to admit that it will never be P5 eligible, and thus will be locked out of the premiere talent pool. This will make the gulf in quality of play larger as time goes by...not to mention the fact that the P5 will be able to compensate their athletes with $$$ due to recent changes in NCAA policy.

UC could be successful at FB at a lower level...but that also means fewer $$$ going into the program.

But the idea that the UC FB Bearcats will ever be on the same playing field in term of talent as the top of the P5 is a pipe dream, and the pursuit of such a goal is merely a vanity project for the donors.

And just for the record...I'm a rabid MBB, NFL, and MLB fan. I find College FB mildly interesting, but honestly, it looks to me like NFL football played poorly. That's why I prefer the pros.

NBA is OK, but I like NCAA MBB because they actually play DEFENSE..unlike the NBA.

That my 2 cents.
Bruh... UC is a lot closer to P5 than they are to public ivy. Should we can academics and professors instead since we'll never be among the upper crust of academic institutions since it's a waste of money?
 
09-12-2019 07:32 PM
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