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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #81
RE: New Conference for NMSU
PistolPete, it should be obvious where NMSU must go if the WAC cannot hold on.

[Image: AP99030601217.jpg?wm=api&ver=0]

[Image: AP96011803449.jpg?wm=api&ver=0]
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2019 10:38 AM by jdgaucho.)
09-17-2019 10:37 AM
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edinburger Offline
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Post: #82
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-17-2019 10:37 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  PistolPete, it should be obvious where NMSU must go if the WAC cannot hold on.

[Image: AP99030601217.jpg?wm=api&ver=0]

[Image: AP96011803449.jpg?wm=api&ver=0]

Great illustration of a classic defensive technique, the Two-On-One Nose Slap Then Steal From Behind Maneuver. It's so sad that in the WAC all we get to see are plain old punches and backhands.
09-18-2019 10:25 AM
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chrisattsu Offline
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Post: #83
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-17-2019 05:24 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 02:36 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(09-12-2019 08:20 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(09-12-2019 05:37 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  I don't see how the Summit or Horizon make any more sense for NMSU than the WAC.

I don't think the Horizon makes a lick of sense. It's a Great Lakes based conference. But the Summit makes more sense simply because it's established, not at risk of losing its autobid, and not dependent on D-2 call-ups who all want to get out of the WAC themselves to remain a conference.

The Horizon makes zero sense for NMSU. They need an all sports league. The Summit only makes sense if it adds FB at the FBS level, not likely unless NoDak's crazy theories come true.

I see the Summit as an option for NMSU if the WAC unravels further. i.e. Chicago State drops out of D1 and maybe UTRGV decide to jump ship to the Southland in the not too distant future. It wouldn't give the WAC an FBS home but it would stabilize the rest of the NMSU programs.

If the WAC is going to survive, the WAC Commissioner needs to locate more D2 move ups within the west region to give the WAC a western identity once again; eliminating any reason for the majority of the WAC schools to leave the conference. I think Grand Canyon, Cal Baptist, and Dixie State were all good additions. All three will soon enough be better basketball programs than most of the Big West, Big Sky, and Summit. GCU is already there but CBU and DSU will be on the rise. As former D2 programs go, all three have solid fan bases and good basketball attendance entering the WAC.

Ideally, NMSU needs to be back in the Sun Belt as a full member; or longshots of getting into C-USA or the MWC. Who knows? With California trying to pass a "pay for play" law for its college programs, maybe the whole NCAA system will blow up and conferences will reorganize again.

Based on your statement and the comments made by your AD which started this thread, I wonder if change is coming.

NMSU has been the bellcow for the league, but it is also the outlier. The Land and Space Grant institution for your state that also has FBS football. Nobody else in the league fits that. None of the other schools being mentioned for expansion fit that.

WAC has pushed for expansion at the D1 level but is finding better fishing in D2 move ups. Has the WAC come to the conclusion that expansion and longer term stability hinges on D2s (maybe even D2s with football) moving up and now NMSU wants out more than ever?

Like a sports franchise with a good player, sometimes you lose a franchise player because they don't want to stick around for the rebuild
(This post was last modified: 09-18-2019 12:54 PM by chrisattsu.)
09-18-2019 12:53 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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Post: #84
RE: New Conference for NMSU
Unless NMSU can find an FBS home elsewhere, I think it benefits the Aggie program (Olympic sports wise) for the WAC to survive and prosper. If the WAC unravels (again), I really don't think our AD wants to put NMSU in another non-FBS football playing conference (i.e. Summit, Big West, Horizon, Missouri Valley) unless it's absolutely necessary. Ideally, Moccia would like to place NMSU in the MWC or CUSA as a full member. But the SBC is a more realistic option; now that there has been a commissioner change recently (no more Mr. Peanut). I don't think NMSU's AD has any interest in dropping down to the FCS level by joining the Big Sky or the Southland. That would damage the prestige of the Aggie basketball program long term.
09-19-2019 01:47 AM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #85
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-18-2019 12:53 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  
(09-17-2019 05:24 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 02:36 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(09-12-2019 08:20 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(09-12-2019 05:37 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  I don't see how the Summit or Horizon make any more sense for NMSU than the WAC.

I don't think the Horizon makes a lick of sense. It's a Great Lakes based conference. But the Summit makes more sense simply because it's established, not at risk of losing its autobid, and not dependent on D-2 call-ups who all want to get out of the WAC themselves to remain a conference.

The Horizon makes zero sense for NMSU. They need an all sports league. The Summit only makes sense if it adds FB at the FBS level, not likely unless NoDak's crazy theories come true.

I see the Summit as an option for NMSU if the WAC unravels further. i.e. Chicago State drops out of D1 and maybe UTRGV decide to jump ship to the Southland in the not too distant future. It wouldn't give the WAC an FBS home but it would stabilize the rest of the NMSU programs.

If the WAC is going to survive, the WAC Commissioner needs to locate more D2 move ups within the west region to give the WAC a western identity once again; eliminating any reason for the majority of the WAC schools to leave the conference. I think Grand Canyon, Cal Baptist, and Dixie State were all good additions. All three will soon enough be better basketball programs than most of the Big West, Big Sky, and Summit. GCU is already there but CBU and DSU will be on the rise. As former D2 programs go, all three have solid fan bases and good basketball attendance entering the WAC.

Ideally, NMSU needs to be back in the Sun Belt as a full member; or longshots of getting into C-USA or the MWC. Who knows? With California trying to pass a "pay for play" law for its college programs, maybe the whole NCAA system will blow up and conferences will reorganize again.

Based on your statement and the comments made by your AD which started this thread, I wonder if change is coming.

NMSU has been the bellcow for the league, but it is also the outlier. The Land and Space Grant institution for your state that also has FBS football. Nobody else in the league fits that. None of the other schools being mentioned for expansion fit that.

WAC has pushed for expansion at the D1 level but is finding better fishing in D2 move ups. Has the WAC come to the conclusion that expansion and longer term stability hinges on D2s (maybe even D2s with football) moving up and now NMSU wants out more than ever?

Like a sports franchise with a good player, sometimes you lose a franchise player because they don't want to stick around for the rebuild

NMSU wants to be in an FBS conference. Nothing makes us want that any more or any less. That's what we want. That's no secret.
09-19-2019 08:21 AM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #86
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-19-2019 01:47 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  Unless NMSU can find an FBS home elsewhere, I think it benefits the Aggie program (Olympic sports wise) for the WAC to survive and prosper. If the WAC unravels (again), I really don't think our AD wants to put NMSU in another non-FBS football playing conference (i.e. Summit, Big West, Horizon, Missouri Valley) unless it's absolutely necessary. Ideally, Moccia would like to place NMSU in the MWC or CUSA as a full member. But the SBC is a more realistic option; now that there has been a commissioner change recently (no more Mr. Peanut). I don't think NMSU's AD has any interest in dropping down to the FCS level by joining the Big Sky or the Southland. That would damage the prestige of the Aggie basketball program long term.

So I wouldn't assume that joining the Big Sky or Southland for all sports means demoting FB to join them as well. I suppose at this point both have pretty much gone for all-sports members and not non-football members, but NMSU would be a top team for both of them in basketball and might provide enough value to not have to drop FB in as well.

That said, why do you think FCS football devalues basketball?
09-19-2019 01:49 PM
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TardisCaptain Offline
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Post: #87
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-19-2019 01:49 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(09-19-2019 01:47 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  Unless NMSU can find an FBS home elsewhere, I think it benefits the Aggie program (Olympic sports wise) for the WAC to survive and prosper. If the WAC unravels (again), I really don't think our AD wants to put NMSU in another non-FBS football playing conference (i.e. Summit, Big West, Horizon, Missouri Valley) unless it's absolutely necessary. Ideally, Moccia would like to place NMSU in the MWC or CUSA as a full member. But the SBC is a more realistic option; now that there has been a commissioner change recently (no more Mr. Peanut). I don't think NMSU's AD has any interest in dropping down to the FCS level by joining the Big Sky or the Southland. That would damage the prestige of the Aggie basketball program long term.

So I wouldn't assume that joining the Big Sky or Southland for all sports means demoting FB to join them as well. I suppose at this point both have pretty much gone for all-sports members and not non-football members, but NMSU would be a top team for both of them in basketball and might provide enough value to not have to drop FB in as well.

That said, why do you think FCS football devalues basketball?

It's an image issue. The FBS schools will try to entice recruits for non-FB sports by stating that the stature of their schools are better than the FCS schools.

This issue is part of the reason that the football D1-A and D1-AA titles were dropped. I remember reading a story where a volleyball coach at a D1-A school was telling a recruit: "Don't go school X, their volleyball program is D1-AA."
09-19-2019 04:21 PM
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Lopes87 Offline
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Post: #88
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-19-2019 01:49 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(09-19-2019 01:47 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  Unless NMSU can find an FBS home elsewhere, I think it benefits the Aggie program (Olympic sports wise) for the WAC to survive and prosper. If the WAC unravels (again), I really don't think our AD wants to put NMSU in another non-FBS football playing conference (i.e. Summit, Big West, Horizon, Missouri Valley) unless it's absolutely necessary. Ideally, Moccia would like to place NMSU in the MWC or CUSA as a full member. But the SBC is a more realistic option; now that there has been a commissioner change recently (no more Mr. Peanut). I don't think NMSU's AD has any interest in dropping down to the FCS level by joining the Big Sky or the Southland. That would damage the prestige of the Aggie basketball program long term.

So I wouldn't assume that joining the Big Sky or Southland for all sports means demoting FB to join them as well. I suppose at this point both have pretty much gone for all-sports members and not non-football members, but NMSU would be a top team for both of them in basketball and might provide enough value to not have to drop FB in as well.

That said, why do you think FCS football devalues basketball?

Big Sky doesn't have baseball and if NMSU leaves the WAC they won't be keeping baseball in the WAC I would imagine so they would have to put in the summit which would be the thing they are trying to avoid and the reason for them trying to put all sports in the same league. NMSU would prefer the Southland to the Big Sky anyways if they had to pick from these two options. I wonder if NMSU has tried to convince D2 schools in NM to make the jump to the WAC. This would same some money but it doesn't help their football situation as it currently stands.
09-19-2019 04:30 PM
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Johnny Crunch Offline
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Post: #89
New Conference for NMSU
There are ZERO NM D2 schools that have any business being fcs/D1
09-19-2019 04:31 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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Post: #90
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-19-2019 04:30 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
(09-19-2019 01:49 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(09-19-2019 01:47 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  Unless NMSU can find an FBS home elsewhere, I think it benefits the Aggie program (Olympic sports wise) for the WAC to survive and prosper. If the WAC unravels (again), I really don't think our AD wants to put NMSU in another non-FBS football playing conference (i.e. Summit, Big West, Horizon, Missouri Valley) unless it's absolutely necessary. Ideally, Moccia would like to place NMSU in the MWC or CUSA as a full member. But the SBC is a more realistic option; now that there has been a commissioner change recently (no more Mr. Peanut). I don't think NMSU's AD has any interest in dropping down to the FCS level by joining the Big Sky or the Southland. That would damage the prestige of the Aggie basketball program long term.

So I wouldn't assume that joining the Big Sky or Southland for all sports means demoting FB to join them as well. I suppose at this point both have pretty much gone for all-sports members and not non-football members, but NMSU would be a top team for both of them in basketball and might provide enough value to not have to drop FB in as well.

That said, why do you think FCS football devalues basketball?

Big Sky doesn't have baseball and if NMSU leaves the WAC they won't be keeping baseball in the WAC I would imagine so they would have to put in the summit which would be the thing they are trying to avoid and the reason for them trying to put all sports in the same league. NMSU would prefer the Southland to the Big Sky anyways if they had to pick from these two options. I wonder if NMSU has tried to convince D2 schools in NM to make the jump to the WAC. This would same some money but it doesn't help their football situation as it currently stands.

New Mexico is a poor State. It can barely support NMSU and UNM. Nobody wants another D1 program to fund in New Mexico. The closes to making a move D1 would probably be Eastern New Mexico; in Portales, NM. But they would add virtually nothing to the WAC.
09-19-2019 04:42 PM
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Johnny Crunch Offline
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Post: #91
New Conference for NMSU
Also the new free college for errbody in NM will torpedo Eastern, Western, and Highlands.
09-19-2019 04:42 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #92
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-19-2019 04:42 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(09-19-2019 04:30 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
(09-19-2019 01:49 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(09-19-2019 01:47 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  Unless NMSU can find an FBS home elsewhere, I think it benefits the Aggie program (Olympic sports wise) for the WAC to survive and prosper. If the WAC unravels (again), I really don't think our AD wants to put NMSU in another non-FBS football playing conference (i.e. Summit, Big West, Horizon, Missouri Valley) unless it's absolutely necessary. Ideally, Moccia would like to place NMSU in the MWC or CUSA as a full member. But the SBC is a more realistic option; now that there has been a commissioner change recently (no more Mr. Peanut). I don't think NMSU's AD has any interest in dropping down to the FCS level by joining the Big Sky or the Southland. That would damage the prestige of the Aggie basketball program long term.

So I wouldn't assume that joining the Big Sky or Southland for all sports means demoting FB to join them as well. I suppose at this point both have pretty much gone for all-sports members and not non-football members, but NMSU would be a top team for both of them in basketball and might provide enough value to not have to drop FB in as well.

That said, why do you think FCS football devalues basketball?

Big Sky doesn't have baseball and if NMSU leaves the WAC they won't be keeping baseball in the WAC I would imagine so they would have to put in the summit which would be the thing they are trying to avoid and the reason for them trying to put all sports in the same league. NMSU would prefer the Southland to the Big Sky anyways if they had to pick from these two options. I wonder if NMSU has tried to convince D2 schools in NM to make the jump to the WAC. This would same some money but it doesn't help their football situation as it currently stands.

New Mexico is a poor State. It can barely support NMSU and UNM. Nobody wants another D1 program to fund in New Mexico. The closes to making a move D1 would probably be Eastern New Mexico; in Portales, NM. But they would add virtually nothing to the WAC.

Also, UNM wouldn't allow it.
09-19-2019 05:06 PM
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