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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #41
RE: New Conference for NMSU
But this goes back to my first question. Are travel subs a non-starter for NMSU?
09-05-2019 01:31 AM
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Hilldog Offline
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Post: #42
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-04-2019 02:41 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
(09-04-2019 11:55 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  
(09-04-2019 11:35 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  I can back up DA on that fact that NMSU/GCU partnership to being a package deal is a real thing.

Also a top 50 program will raise the profile of any league out west minus P12. WCC aren't interested in NMSU by themselves but if GCU is part of the deal then boom you get two schools with good OLY sports to join the WCC and if Gonzaga or BYU dips they are fine with the quality or if you plug in the Big West GCU probably won't get in by themselves but if you add NMSU to the bid Big West would be open to it I'm sure of it.

Both GCU and NMSU by themselves haven't broken the code to dip on the WAC yet on their own so go into it as a packaged deal helps both schools out in the long term for OLY's NMSU football could probably last a bit longer as a indy if this happens.

While I'll never say never, it's highly doubtful the WCC will add a public school. They want religious schools. Sure, you can make the case that Pacific isn't that religious, but NMSU has no religious background.

While, I do think it's hypocritical for any schools who are always chasing the money, to look down at a For Profit school. GCU will always have that For Profit label held against them.

Yeah you are right from 1949-2003,2018-present non profit, 2004-2017 for-profit. So 56 years being a non profit school will be trumped for 14 years of for profit schooling?

Also WCC have had public schools part of their league it hasn't happened since the 70's but SJSU, Fresno St, UCSB, Nevada, UNLV. So there is precedent of it happening and how it can happen again.

And the WAC had 16 teams from Houston, Texas to Hawaii. There is a precedent for that to happen. So it's possible that it could happen again.

Wake up! It's at least 35-40 years since the WCC had any public school. That's practically ancient history! Again, while I never say never, it's highly doubtful the WCC would admit a public school!
09-05-2019 02:53 AM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #43
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-05-2019 02:53 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  
(09-04-2019 02:41 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
(09-04-2019 11:55 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  
(09-04-2019 11:35 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  I can back up DA on that fact that NMSU/GCU partnership to being a package deal is a real thing.

Also a top 50 program will raise the profile of any league out west minus P12. WCC aren't interested in NMSU by themselves but if GCU is part of the deal then boom you get two schools with good OLY sports to join the WCC and if Gonzaga or BYU dips they are fine with the quality or if you plug in the Big West GCU probably won't get in by themselves but if you add NMSU to the bid Big West would be open to it I'm sure of it.

Both GCU and NMSU by themselves haven't broken the code to dip on the WAC yet on their own so go into it as a packaged deal helps both schools out in the long term for OLY's NMSU football could probably last a bit longer as a indy if this happens.

While I'll never say never, it's highly doubtful the WCC will add a public school. They want religious schools. Sure, you can make the case that Pacific isn't that religious, but NMSU has no religious background.

While, I do think it's hypocritical for any schools who are always chasing the money, to look down at a For Profit school. GCU will always have that For Profit label held against them.

Yeah you are right from 1949-2003,2018-present non profit, 2004-2017 for-profit. So 56 years being a non profit school will be trumped for 14 years of for profit schooling?

Also WCC have had public schools part of their league it hasn't happened since the 70's but SJSU, Fresno St, UCSB, Nevada, UNLV. So there is precedent of it happening and how it can happen again.

And the WAC had 16 teams from Houston, Texas to Hawaii. There is a precedent for that to happen. So it's possible that it could happen again.

Wake up! It's at least 35-40 years since the WCC had any public school. That's practically ancient history! Again, while I never say never, it's highly doubtful the WCC would admit a public school!

You can bet your ass that the WCC would admit a public school. If they were a high profile one from California. The chances they would take one from Las Cruces are slim and none.
09-05-2019 08:20 AM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #44
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-05-2019 01:31 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  But this goes back to my first question. Are travel subs a non-starter for NMSU?

No, they are not. Any and all options are on the table for NMSU if it gets them into a stable conference.

All this talk is nonsense. NMSU needs a FBS conference for football. They won't get an invite unless there is a big conference shakeup or we beat Alabama this weekend. I like that NMSU is being pro-active and trying to line up their ducks, but there are no options out there right now.
09-05-2019 08:39 AM
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dancingNMSUaggie Offline
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Post: #45
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-03-2019 11:06 AM)Johnny Crunch Wrote:  So by process of elimination let's see which conferences might be a possibility.

These can be ruled out:
SEC
Big12
ACC
Big10
AAC

That leaves
CUSA
SunBelt
MAC

I dont know if the MWC has said hell no or not

That's it for football playing FBS correct?

Seems like SunBelt with a) only 10 members and b) the executioner of the WAC no longer there would be somewhat more likely

(09-05-2019 08:39 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 01:31 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  But this goes back to my first question. Are travel subs a non-starter for NMSU?

No, they are not. Any and all options are on the table for NMSU if it gets them into a stable conference.

All this talk is nonsense. NMSU needs a FBS conference for football. They won't get an invite unless there is a big conference shakeup or we beat Alabama this weekend. I like that NMSU is being pro-active and trying to line up their ducks, but there are no options out there right now.

I agree never ending fantasy alignment is nonsense. I only brought it up cause in the recent Moccia interview he talked about the hire of a special consultant to get NMSU into a new conference. There has been talks with Moccia and the MWC commissioner. The door is almost completely shut but they have been talking now. Its a hard deal for NMSU with budget limitations, NMSU being in an isolated area and a horrible football program. The GCU thing is also on the table I was told by staff member of Moccias staff.
09-05-2019 08:55 AM
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MidWestMidMajor Offline
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Post: #46
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-03-2019 11:00 AM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  In a recent Moccia interview he revealed he is about to hire some hot shot who has lots of connections whose full time job is to find a new conference for NMSU. I have been told the priority is get a new conference for all sports or at least find a conference for just football.

Here is my stab in the dark as the best possible (realistic) outcome:

1. a scheduling alliance with MWC gives greater stability for FBS football team;

2. the Missouri Valley Conference brings NMSU in along with Murray State to strengthen basketball. (Mario uses his connections from his time at Southern Illinois to get the deal done.)

What do you think?
09-05-2019 11:43 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-03-2019 11:00 AM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  In a recent Moccia interview he revealed he is about to hire some hot shot who has lots of connections whose full time job is to find a new conference for NMSU. I have been told the priority is get a new conference for all sports or at least find a conference for just football. This is all here say but some pretty connected people have told me these things:

1. Looking for a new conference for all sports

2. Looking for a conference for football and leaving other sports in WAC or finding a new conference as well for Oly sports. This scenario includes GCU and NMSU going as a package deal.

3. Olympic sports going to MWC and forming a scheduling alliance with them for football but staying independent

Lots gonna happen in near future and the WAC and Hurd are not gonna like it.

Hurd is 69 years old (yes he's a year older than Karl Benson, who already retired) and likely to retire when his contract term is up in another year. If the WAC office pension plan is funded, then I very much doubt he's too worried (his daughter long graduated, and has been professionally employed in Atlanta for a few years now).
09-05-2019 01:03 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-05-2019 11:43 AM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  
(09-03-2019 11:00 AM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  In a recent Moccia interview he revealed he is about to hire some hot shot who has lots of connections whose full time job is to find a new conference for NMSU. I have been told the priority is get a new conference for all sports or at least find a conference for just football.

Here is my stab in the dark as the best possible (realistic) outcome:

1. a scheduling alliance with MWC gives greater stability for FBS football team;

2. the Missouri Valley Conference brings NMSU in along with Murray State to strengthen basketball. (Mario uses his connections from his time at Southern Illinois to get the deal done.)

What do you think?

As an independent, NMSU has scheduled home-and-home games with the following MWC schools:
Wyoming
SJSU
SDSU
Fresno State
Utah State
Hawaii
Nevada

Plus, they have their annual game with UNM. They basically already have a scheduling alliance with the MWC for football. It is more to difficult to do a home-and-home with Boise State. UNLV is looking for FBS schools for their new stadium. Colorado State and Air Force, maybe. But it is not easy to get on their football schedules.

The MVC is a Midwest bus league. A good league, but not a great fit for NMSU. It is becoming a one bid league. The addition of Murray State makes sense. A good basketball program within the footprint. NMSU, not a great fit.
09-05-2019 01:16 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: New Conference for NMSU
NMSU can hire a full time Ouija Board expert for all that matters. They will get an offer to another conference when that conference thinks NMSU brings something to the table.

The MWC is highly unlikely. NMSU would be a nice MBB school, but they are only playing 16 games as is, and don't need a 12th school as a result (lots of open space in the schedule). There is no clamoring NMSU in a football schedule agreement, and no need. MWC OOC schedules are pretty full well into the mid-20s. If they add a Basketball school it needs to be somebody who makes a difference in guaranteeing an annual at-large bid, and that pretty much thins the field to BYU or Gonzaga, and frankly just Gonzaga. The MWC is simply out.

The Big Sky might have an interest in a GCU, NMSU package. But I don't know if they'd go to 13 in basketball. The same duo might appeal to the Horizon or MVC.

But how a realignment specialist makes a difference is beyond me. They would basically just be keeping an ear to the ground listening for a big realignment (Texas and Oklahoma to the B1G) setting off a cascade, and then telling Moccia whom to call for the most realistic possible move. But even I could tell him who might be interested. The smart move would be to be on good terms with as many MWC, SBC and CUSA Presidents and ADs as possible, and while you're at it also Big Sky, MVC and Horizon Presidents and ADs. Then hope for a B12 scramble, and deep raid of the American setting off a cascade.
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2019 11:53 AM by Stugray2.)
09-05-2019 01:24 PM
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MidWestMidMajor Offline
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Post: #50
RE: New Conference for NMSU
When I hear news like Moccia's comments, I wonder, "Why now?" NMSU wants a home for FBS football. That's not new. We've known that. So what's new? Dixie State. I wonder if their addition adds impetus to NMSU wanting off the WAC island? Does the chancellor of NMSU (a land grant university) want his university to be perceived as on the same level as Dixie State? Does that add drive to find a group of schools more similar to NMSU's institutional aspirations?

And I am not knocking Dixie State. It provides a great service to its 10,000 students and community. But perception matters in the higher ed business. If I had to rank the public universities of Utah based on prestige, I'm guessing DSU would come last. Does the addition of DSU become a tipping point for NMSU & the WAC? And with other schools (like Metro-Denver, Colo-Mesa) turning down the WAC, is the future for the WAC more DSU-type schools?
09-05-2019 02:23 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-05-2019 02:23 PM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  When I hear news like Moccia's comments, I wonder, "Why now?" NMSU wants a home for FBS football. That's not new. We've known that. So what's new? Dixie State. I wonder if their addition adds impetus to NMSU wanting off the WAC island? Does the chancellor of NMSU (a land grant university) want his university to be perceived as on the same level as Dixie State? Does that add drive to find a group of schools more similar to NMSU's institutional aspirations?

And I am not knocking Dixie State. It provides a great service to its 10,000 students and community. But perception matters in the higher ed business. If I had to rank the public universities of Utah based on prestige, I'm guessing DSU would come last. Does the addition of DSU become a tipping point for NMSU & the WAC? And with other schools (like Metro-Denver, Colo-Mesa) turning down the WAC, is the future for the WAC more DSU-type schools?
This article may help in your understanding of where Moccia is coming from:

https://www.lcsun-news.com/story/sports/...709829001/

"Nobody wants to be in that situation but that is why the commissioner (Jeff Hurd) is striving to get new members," Moccia said. "You would like one day for everyone to say that this (the WAC) is our home for good. We are an outlier in that we have football, so our goal is to get everyone under one conference."

So how does Moccia go about negotiating a conference move?

"We need to speak with people in the industry who can take a look at this to tell us if we have missed anything and how to approach it," Moccia said.

Relationships built in college athletics through Moccia, President John Floros and Chancellor Dan Arvizu can only do so much.

"I think you need someone who can tell us when things are going to change with TV contracts, which commissioners may be for expansion or against it, Et Cetera," Moccia said. "I think there will be a time when at least another small earthquake takes place."

I don't think NMSU has a problem with Dixie State. They scheduled a football game with Dixie State in 2021. This is more about an all-sports home that includes FBS football. The NMSU search for an all-sports FBS conference has been going on now for seven years. NMSU needs to position themselves if an opportunity comes up in the future in a G5 conference.
(This post was last modified: 09-05-2019 04:59 PM by SoCalBobcat78.)
09-05-2019 03:56 PM
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MidWestMidMajor Offline
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Post: #52
RE: New Conference for NMSU
Sort of a "Texas and/or Oklahoma leave the BigXII who backfills with AAC who backfills with MWC who then finally invites NMSU" scenario.
09-05-2019 04:49 PM
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Post: #53
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-05-2019 01:16 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 11:43 AM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  
(09-03-2019 11:00 AM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  In a recent Moccia interview he revealed he is about to hire some hot shot who has lots of connections whose full time job is to find a new conference for NMSU. I have been told the priority is get a new conference for all sports or at least find a conference for just football.

Here is my stab in the dark as the best possible (realistic) outcome:

1. a scheduling alliance with MWC gives greater stability for FBS football team;

2. the Missouri Valley Conference brings NMSU in along with Murray State to strengthen basketball. (Mario uses his connections from his time at Southern Illinois to get the deal done.)

What do you think?

As an independent, NMSU has scheduled home-and-home games with the following MWC schools:
Wyoming
SJSU
SDSU
Fresno State
Utah State
Hawaii
Nevada

Plus, they have their annual game with UNM. They basically already have a scheduling alliance with the MWC for football. It is more to difficult to do a home-and-home with Boise State. UNLV is looking for FBS schools for their new stadium. Colorado State and Air Force, maybe. But it is not easy to get on their football schedules.

The MVC is a Midwest bus league. A good league, but not a great fit for NMSU. It is becoming a one bid league. The addition of Murray State makes sense. A good basketball program within the footprint. NMSU, not a great fit.

Doesn't NMSU also have games vs UTEP on an annual or regular basis?
09-05-2019 05:26 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-05-2019 05:26 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 01:16 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 11:43 AM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  
(09-03-2019 11:00 AM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  In a recent Moccia interview he revealed he is about to hire some hot shot who has lots of connections whose full time job is to find a new conference for NMSU. I have been told the priority is get a new conference for all sports or at least find a conference for just football.

Here is my stab in the dark as the best possible (realistic) outcome:

1. a scheduling alliance with MWC gives greater stability for FBS football team;

2. the Missouri Valley Conference brings NMSU in along with Murray State to strengthen basketball. (Mario uses his connections from his time at Southern Illinois to get the deal done.)

What do you think?

As an independent, NMSU has scheduled home-and-home games with the following MWC schools:
Wyoming
SJSU
SDSU
Fresno State
Utah State
Hawaii
Nevada

Plus, they have their annual game with UNM. They basically already have a scheduling alliance with the MWC for football. It is more to difficult to do a home-and-home with Boise State. UNLV is looking for FBS schools for their new stadium. Colorado State and Air Force, maybe. But it is not easy to get on their football schedules.

The MVC is a Midwest bus league. A good league, but not a great fit for NMSU. It is becoming a one bid league. The addition of Murray State makes sense. A good basketball program within the footprint. NMSU, not a great fit.

Doesn't NMSU also have games vs UTEP on an annual or regular basis?

Yes, they have an annual game in football with UTEP. UTEP is in CUSA, so I did not list them in the MWC scheduling alliance list.
09-05-2019 05:52 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #55
RE: New Conference for NMSU
This article is placing a bleak picture for the WAC courtesy of DU fans.

https://letsgodu.com/2019/08/30/wac-wobb...ssion=true

So as the strongest schools, NMSU and GCU need to work together.

As much as most posters here claim Cal Baptist and Dixie St will be recognized as WAC members by the NCAA, they won’t be counted soon. None of the Dakotas counted as DI members until they got official notification from the NCAA that their transitions were over and were then active members. Counting as a full DI member for scheduling is not counting as an active DI member. Conference know that DII members that invited up won’t count for five years so they have to plan. That was true ten years ago and nothing has changed that in the rules.

Without Cal Baptist and Dixie St, and with Chicago St likely not renewed after this year, all the WAC has is NMSU, GCU, UTRGV, UVU and Seattle for next year and that is two short so the WAC would be dead, no autobid and no conference money, if they don’t do something soon.

What I have claimed for the WAC in the past is coming true, but I will get banned for telling the truth again.
(This post was last modified: 09-05-2019 10:06 PM by NoDak.)
09-05-2019 09:51 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #56
RE: New Conference for NMSU
You don’t know anything. Who cares what a DU fan thinks? He’s just recycling old rumors. The NCAA isn’t taking away the WAC autobid. Go get a life and stay on your “Great Notthern Conference” message board. ‘This WAC stuff isn’t for you
09-05-2019 10:48 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-05-2019 09:51 PM)NoDak Wrote:  This article is placing a bleak picture for the WAC courtesy of DU fans.

https://letsgodu.com/2019/08/30/wac-wobb...ssion=true

So as the strongest schools, NMSU and GCU need to work together.

As much as most posters here claim Cal Baptist and Dixie St will be recognized as WAC members by the NCAA, they won’t be counted soon. None of the Dakotas counted as DI members until they got official notification from the NCAA that their transitions were over and were then active members. Counting as a full DI member for scheduling is not counting as an active DI member. Conference know that DII members that invited up won’t count for five years so they have to plan. That was true ten years ago and nothing has changed that in the rules.

Without Cal Baptist and Dixie St, and with Chicago St likely not renewed after this year, all the WAC has is NMSU, GCU, UTRGV, UVU and Seattle for next year and that is two short so the WAC would be dead, no autobid and no conference money, if they don’t do something soon.

What I have claimed for the WAC in the past is coming true, but I will get banned for telling the truth again.

NoDak,

You have real trouble understanding NCAA rules. CBU in their 2nd year now, counts as a D-I opponent in all sports.

CBU is restricted from post-season play for three more seasons ('19-20, '20-21, '21-22) in team sports (MBB, WBB, WVB, BB, SB, MS, WS). They may participate in individual sports (Tennis, Golf, Track, etc).

The same will be true for Dixie State, which will count as a D-II opponent their first year ('20-21) but thereafter count as a D-I opponents.

The big issue for the WAC will be having to wait until the 2023 Basketball tournament for Cal Baptist to participate and the 2025 Tournament for Dixie State to participate. So while there will be 8 participants in this years tournament (2020) there could be as few as 5 next year and the year after (CBU & DSU not eligible, CSUB & UMKC leaving the WAC, Chicago State possible could drop out of D-I).

This tiny tournament of only 5 or 6 schools participating is not a good look. That I'll agree. But there is no danger to teh WAC or to the scheduling rules of too many D-II games.
09-06-2019 12:11 PM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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Post: #58
New Conference for NMSU
If, a ver big if, the MWC could somehow lose San Jose, they could pick up NMSU and it would help some in hoops. NMSU needs to build football up to be taken seriously.


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09-06-2019 05:31 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-06-2019 05:31 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  If, a ver big if, the MWC could somehow lose San Jose, they could pick up NMSU and it would help some in hoops. NMSU needs to build football up to be taken seriously.


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San Jose State's finances are solid for at least the next decade. They have almost 3x as many students paying a larger athletic fee than NMSU students pay.The level of institutional transfer is lower than NMSU by more than a few million $. In short they are not going anywhere.

What the Spartans need is a couple good hires to coach and then a better effort to support those coaches when they get the, They sit on the 2nd best (behind SDSU) recruiting zone in the MWC. NMSU (New Mexico and UTEP for that matter) sit in a recruiting desert for students and athletes. While a lot of upset from fans is directed (justly) at SJSU for poor performance, they simply are not in any hurt.

It should be noted the MWC is most likely going to look at adding a Texas school should they lose anyone in realignment (Colorado State is by far the most likely target of realignment), and the Texas school they are most likely to add is not UTEP but Rice. North Texas might also be on the radar. UTEP and NMSU are suffering from the same decline in the local region.

Put quite bluntly NMSU ranks no higher than about 4th on the MWC replacement/expansion list.
09-07-2019 01:13 PM
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New Conference for NMSU
(09-07-2019 01:13 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 05:31 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  If, a ver big if, the MWC could somehow lose San Jose, they could pick up NMSU and it would help some in hoops. NMSU needs to build football up to be taken seriously.


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San Jose State's finances are solid for at least the next decade. They have almost 3x as many students paying a larger athletic fee than NMSU students pay.The level of institutional transfer is lower than NMSU by more than a few million $. In short they are not going anywhere.

What the Spartans need is a couple good hires to coach and then a better effort to support those coaches when they get the, They sit on the 2nd best (behind SDSU) recruiting zone in the MWC. NMSU (New Mexico and UTEP for that matter) sit in a recruiting desert for students and athletes. While a lot of upset from fans is directed (justly) at SJSU for poor performance, they simply are not in any hurt.

It should be noted the MWC is most likely going to look at adding a Texas school should they lose anyone in realignment (Colorado State is by far the most likely target of realignment), and the Texas school they are most likely to add is not UTEP but Rice. North Texas might also be on the radar. UTEP and NMSU are suffering from the same decline in the local region.

Put quite bluntly NMSU ranks no higher than about 4th on the MWC replacement/expansion list.


First, with the state of their teams, CSU is not on anyone’s desired list. They suck. Why would NWC get a very bad school like Rice in, they suck worse than CSU. Please don’t make the academic argument, we want winners.


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09-07-2019 02:03 PM
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