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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #21
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-04-2019 03:45 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Any change in conference affiliation for NMSU would need to be a two-way street. It's not enough for NMSU to want a change. And like some of the other posters, I don't see a likely scenario in which another conference has an incentive to add NMSU.

I do. someone will want to add NMSU's basketball program. They would provide a boost to pretty much everyone out west.
09-04-2019 04:33 AM
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SoCalBobcat78 Online
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Post: #22
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-04-2019 04:33 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(09-04-2019 03:45 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Any change in conference affiliation for NMSU would need to be a two-way street. It's not enough for NMSU to want a change. And like some of the other posters, I don't see a likely scenario in which another conference has an incentive to add NMSU.

I do. someone will want to add NMSU's basketball program. They would provide a boost to pretty much everyone out west.

A boost in what way? There are only six western conferences, including the WAC. The Pac-12 is not happening. So you are down to four western conferences. Does NMSU seem like a good fit for the WCC? Does the WCC need NMSU? The answer to both of those questions is no.

Why would NMSU want to join the Big Sky? That is a bad fit NMSU. The Big West has a lot of questions. Entry fee? Exit fee? Travel subsidies? How often do I have to send my Olympic sports to Hawaii? Are the Big West schools committed to making their basketball programs better or are they just happy to be at D1? For the Big West, does this get us closer to a second bid?

Will the MWC gain any additional revenue adding NMSU for Olympic sports? No. NMSU does not increase TV revenue or NCAA revenue.

NMSU basketball is doing well under Chris Jans. It is a top 50 program under Jans. How good will it be if Jans leaves? These are questions that have to be asked. If I was going to bet on a conference move down the road, it would be NMSU to the Sun Belt for all-sports. But not before 2025, when the CFB contracts expire.
09-04-2019 10:59 AM
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Hilldog Offline
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Post: #23
RE: New Conference for NMSU
When Bakersfield got into the Big West, I think I read Hawaii will not have to pay travel subsidies to them or UCSD. So, if NMSU goes back to the Big West, they won't get travel subsidies to Hawaii. Maybe NMSU will have to offer travel subsidies TO Big West schools for travel to LC!

I know NMSU goal to to find a stable conference. While the Big West maybe stable, how good is the Big West RPI the past five years? If I'm not mistaken, they don't have a dominate team, they have sent a different school to the NCAA the past few years.

Another thing- is NMSU a western school or a southwest school or midwest school? In the 70's they moved from the MVC to the PCAA-which became the Big West. Of course this is hindsight, NMSU was a full Sun Belt member. They moved to the WAC after SMU Tulsa, and Rice left. Which was a good decision at the time. Then the Pac10 invited Utah, which led to the MWC expanding. That eventually left NMSU in the no football WAC!

I think NMSU chances of Sun Belt admission depends on what happens to Texas St. If they leave the Sun Belt for CUSA, NMSU will get an invite.
(This post was last modified: 09-04-2019 11:23 AM by Hilldog.)
09-04-2019 11:11 AM
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Lopes87 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: New Conference for NMSU
I can back up DA on that fact that NMSU/GCU partnership to being a package deal is a real thing.

Also a top 50 program will raise the profile of any league out west minus P12. WCC aren't interested in NMSU by themselves but if GCU is part of the deal then boom you get two schools with good OLY sports to join the WCC and if Gonzaga or BYU dips they are fine with the quality or if you plug in the Big West GCU probably won't get in by themselves but if you add NMSU to the bid Big West would be open to it I'm sure of it.

Both GCU and NMSU by themselves haven't broken the code to dip on the WAC yet on their own so go into it as a packaged deal helps both schools out in the long term for OLY's NMSU football could probably last a bit longer as a indy if this happens.
09-04-2019 11:35 AM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #25
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-04-2019 11:35 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  I can back up DA on that fact that NMSU/GCU partnership to being a package deal is a real thing.

Also a top 50 program will raise the profile of any league out west minus P12. WCC aren't interested in NMSU by themselves but if GCU is part of the deal then boom you get two schools with good OLY sports to join the WCC and if Gonzaga or BYU dips they are fine with the quality or if you plug in the Big West GCU probably won't get in by themselves but if you add NMSU to the bid Big West would be open to it I'm sure of it.

Both GCU and NMSU by themselves haven't broken the code to dip on the WAC yet on their own so go into it as a packaged deal helps both schools out in the long term for OLY's NMSU football could probably last a bit longer as a indy if this happens.

NMSU football has its 2020 schedule set. 11 teams scheduled for 2021 and 10 for 2022, no FCS team scheduled for 2022 yet.
09-04-2019 11:45 AM
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Lopes87 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: New Conference for NMSU
I think 2025 is the deadline of NMSU indy football.
09-04-2019 11:52 AM
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Hilldog Offline
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Post: #27
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-04-2019 11:35 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  I can back up DA on that fact that NMSU/GCU partnership to being a package deal is a real thing.

Also a top 50 program will raise the profile of any league out west minus P12. WCC aren't interested in NMSU by themselves but if GCU is part of the deal then boom you get two schools with good OLY sports to join the WCC and if Gonzaga or BYU dips they are fine with the quality or if you plug in the Big West GCU probably won't get in by themselves but if you add NMSU to the bid Big West would be open to it I'm sure of it.

Both GCU and NMSU by themselves haven't broken the code to dip on the WAC yet on their own so go into it as a packaged deal helps both schools out in the long term for OLY's NMSU football could probably last a bit longer as a indy if this happens.

While I'll never say never, it's highly doubtful the WCC will add a public school. They want religious schools. Sure, you can make the case that Pacific isn't that religious, but NMSU has no religious background.

While, I do think it's hypocritical for any schools who are always chasing the money, to look down at a For Profit school. GCU will always have that For Profit label held against them.
09-04-2019 11:55 AM
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Hilldog Offline
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Post: #28
RE: New Conference for NMSU
I'm waiting for the American to replace UConn. Once that happens the dominoes will start to fall again. How that will effect NMSU remains to be seen.
09-04-2019 12:02 PM
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Johnny Crunch Offline
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New Conference for NMSU
Uconn wont be replaced.
09-04-2019 12:23 PM
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Lopes87 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-04-2019 11:55 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  
(09-04-2019 11:35 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  I can back up DA on that fact that NMSU/GCU partnership to being a package deal is a real thing.

Also a top 50 program will raise the profile of any league out west minus P12. WCC aren't interested in NMSU by themselves but if GCU is part of the deal then boom you get two schools with good OLY sports to join the WCC and if Gonzaga or BYU dips they are fine with the quality or if you plug in the Big West GCU probably won't get in by themselves but if you add NMSU to the bid Big West would be open to it I'm sure of it.

Both GCU and NMSU by themselves haven't broken the code to dip on the WAC yet on their own so go into it as a packaged deal helps both schools out in the long term for OLY's NMSU football could probably last a bit longer as a indy if this happens.

While I'll never say never, it's highly doubtful the WCC will add a public school. They want religious schools. Sure, you can make the case that Pacific isn't that religious, but NMSU has no religious background.

While, I do think it's hypocritical for any schools who are always chasing the money, to look down at a For Profit school. GCU will always have that For Profit label held against them.

Yeah you are right from 1949-2003,2018-present non profit, 2004-2017 for-profit. So 56 years being a non profit school will be trumped for 14 years of for profit schooling?

Also WCC have had public schools part of their league it hasn't happened since the 70's but SJSU, Fresno St, UCSB, Nevada, UNLV. So there is precedent of it happening and how it can happen again.
09-04-2019 02:41 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #31
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-04-2019 02:41 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
(09-04-2019 11:55 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  
(09-04-2019 11:35 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  I can back up DA on that fact that NMSU/GCU partnership to being a package deal is a real thing.

Also a top 50 program will raise the profile of any league out west minus P12. WCC aren't interested in NMSU by themselves but if GCU is part of the deal then boom you get two schools with good OLY sports to join the WCC and if Gonzaga or BYU dips they are fine with the quality or if you plug in the Big West GCU probably won't get in by themselves but if you add NMSU to the bid Big West would be open to it I'm sure of it.

Both GCU and NMSU by themselves haven't broken the code to dip on the WAC yet on their own so go into it as a packaged deal helps both schools out in the long term for OLY's NMSU football could probably last a bit longer as a indy if this happens.

While I'll never say never, it's highly doubtful the WCC will add a public school. They want religious schools. Sure, you can make the case that Pacific isn't that religious, but NMSU has no religious background.

While, I do think it's hypocritical for any schools who are always chasing the money, to look down at a For Profit school. GCU will always have that For Profit label held against them.

Yeah you are right from 1949-2003,2018-present non profit, 2004-2017 for-profit. So 56 years being a non profit school will be trumped for 14 years of for profit schooling?

Also WCC have had public schools part of their league it hasn't happened since the 70's but SJSU, Fresno St, UCSB, Nevada, UNLV. So there is precedent of it happening and how it can happen again.

GCU is just a non-profit part of the public company symbol LOPE. The part that doesn’t make much money was allowed to be a non profit separate entity. LOPE has a value of over $5 billion. When GCU went DI, LOPE stock made major gains because of the publicity and has mostly gone higher.

Don’t have a problem with GCU as consider most public and private universities much more immoral as they propagandize their students. It’s not immoral to educate and give services on a profit basis.
(This post was last modified: 09-04-2019 03:34 PM by NoDak.)
09-04-2019 03:25 PM
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Johnny Crunch Offline
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Post: #32
New Conference for NMSU
Sounds like its hoops/Olympic to WCC & football back to Sunbelt or bust
09-04-2019 04:08 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Online
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Post: #33
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-04-2019 02:41 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  Yeah you are right from 1949-2003,2018-present non profit, 2004-2017 for-profit. So 56 years being a non profit school will be trumped for 14 years of for profit schooling?

Also WCC have had public schools part of their league it hasn't happened since the 70's but SJSU, Fresno St, UCSB, Nevada, UNLV. So there is precedent of it happening and how it can happen again.

Let's say that the WCC Commissioner wants to add GCU & NMSU. These are some of the questions the WCC Presidents should be asking?

1. Why do we need to expand?
2. What does GCU bring that the conference needs?
3. What does NMSU bring that the conference needs?
4. Are these schools "academically" up to our standards?
5. What do we have in-common with these schools?
6. What additional revenue would the schools bring to the conference?

The WCC does not seem to want or need to expand. So what convinces them to do it?
09-04-2019 04:30 PM
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Johnny Crunch Offline
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Post: #34
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-04-2019 04:30 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(09-04-2019 02:41 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  Yeah you are right from 1949-2003,2018-present non profit, 2004-2017 for-profit. So 56 years being a non profit school will be trumped for 14 years of for profit schooling?

Also WCC have had public schools part of their league it hasn't happened since the 70's but SJSU, Fresno St, UCSB, Nevada, UNLV. So there is precedent of it happening and how it can happen again.

Let's say that the WCC Commissioner wants to add GCU & NMSU. These are some of the questions the WCC Presidents should be asking?

1. Why do we need to expand?
2. What does GCU bring that the conference needs?
3. What does NMSU bring that the conference needs?
4. Are these schools "academically" up to our standards?
5. What do we have in-common with these schools?
6. What additional revenue would the schools bring to the conference?

The WCC does not seem to want or need to expand. So what convinces them to do it?
Biggest thing from NMSU point of view is freeding the bellcow. Better RPI in hoops = strengthens 2bid path.
09-04-2019 04:32 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #35
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-04-2019 04:32 PM)Johnny Crunch Wrote:  
(09-04-2019 04:30 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(09-04-2019 02:41 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  Yeah you are right from 1949-2003,2018-present non profit, 2004-2017 for-profit. So 56 years being a non profit school will be trumped for 14 years of for profit schooling?

Also WCC have had public schools part of their league it hasn't happened since the 70's but SJSU, Fresno St, UCSB, Nevada, UNLV. So there is precedent of it happening and how it can happen again.

Let's say that the WCC Commissioner wants to add GCU & NMSU. These are some of the questions the WCC Presidents should be asking?

1. Why do we need to expand?
2. What does GCU bring that the conference needs?
3. What does NMSU bring that the conference needs?
4. Are these schools "academically" up to our standards?
5. What do we have in-common with these schools?
6. What additional revenue would the schools bring to the conference?

The WCC does not seem to want or need to expand. So what convinces them to do it?
Biggest thing from NMSU point of view is freeding the bellcow. Better RPI in hoops = strengthens 2bid path.
NMSU needs to be a part of the 2025 CFP contract in a conference. It could be worth twice what the G5 gets now. The WAC wasn’t possible even when it first started. Even a new league would be better financially.
(This post was last modified: 09-04-2019 06:29 PM by NoDak.)
09-04-2019 06:27 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #36
RE: New Conference for NMSU
If NMSU was wanted, they would have already been snatched up. Pretty sweet for job for someone to do nothing.
09-04-2019 10:16 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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Post: #37
RE: New Conference for NMSU
I'm pretty sure the Big Sky, the Summit, the Southland, and maybe even the Horizon would accept NMSU as a member. However, the reason NMSU has not moved from the WAC to a more stable basketball conference is because they are trying to find their football program an FBS home or at least a situation where scheduling is not an issue. NMSU next conference move (or stay) needs to be a long term resolution.
09-04-2019 11:17 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #38
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-04-2019 02:41 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
(09-04-2019 11:55 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  
(09-04-2019 11:35 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  I can back up DA on that fact that NMSU/GCU partnership to being a package deal is a real thing.

Also a top 50 program will raise the profile of any league out west minus P12. WCC aren't interested in NMSU by themselves but if GCU is part of the deal then boom you get two schools with good OLY sports to join the WCC and if Gonzaga or BYU dips they are fine with the quality or if you plug in the Big West GCU probably won't get in by themselves but if you add NMSU to the bid Big West would be open to it I'm sure of it.

Both GCU and NMSU by themselves haven't broken the code to dip on the WAC yet on their own so go into it as a packaged deal helps both schools out in the long term for OLY's NMSU football could probably last a bit longer as a indy if this happens.

While I'll never say never, it's highly doubtful the WCC will add a public school. They want religious schools. Sure, you can make the case that Pacific isn't that religious, but NMSU has no religious background.

While, I do think it's hypocritical for any schools who are always chasing the money, to look down at a For Profit school. GCU will always have that For Profit label held against them.

Yeah you are right from 1949-2003,2018-present non profit, 2004-2017 for-profit. So 56 years being a non profit school will be trumped for 14 years of for profit schooling?

Also WCC have had public schools part of their league it hasn't happened since the 70's but SJSU, Fresno St, UCSB, Nevada, UNLV. So there is precedent of it happening and how it can happen again.

Oh yeah. Once upon a time, aka from the mid 90s through the mid 2000s GCU shared a conference with UC Riverside, UCSD, UC Davis and CSUB. Granted that was prior to their for-profit conversion, but then they reunited with CSUB again this decade.

The additions of Boise and CSUB to the BW jaded my views on academic prestige a bit. I'm not anti-GCU like others are.
(This post was last modified: 09-05-2019 01:27 AM by jdgaucho.)
09-05-2019 12:30 AM
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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Post: #39
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-05-2019 12:30 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  The additions of Boise and CSUB additions to the BW jaded my views on academic prestige a bit. I'm not anti-GCU like others are.

I'm guessing academic prestige matters a lot to the Big West's four UC chancellors and UH president and that their desire to add an academic all-star in UCSD (which also has a top D-II athletic program and sits in a huge market) was a big factor in their willingness to accept CSUB. I can't imagine a comparable inducement that would convince them to accept GCU.
09-05-2019 01:02 AM
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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #40
RE: New Conference for NMSU
(09-05-2019 01:02 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 12:30 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  The additions of Boise and CSUB to the BW jaded my views on academic prestige a bit. I'm not anti-GCU like others are.

I'm guessing academic prestige matters a lot to the Big West's four UC chancellors and UH president and that their desire to add an academic all-star in UCSD (which also has a top D-II athletic program and sits in a huge market) was a big factor in their willingness to accept CSUB. I can't imagine a comparable inducement that would convince them to accept GCU.

A big fat bribe might do it. We're all cash strapped. I hope GCU offers some conference a cash bribe, just to see if anyone will bite. And I won't think any less of GCU if they do.
09-05-2019 01:25 AM
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