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Frizzy Owl Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
(08-30-2019 01:02 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 12:56 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 12:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 12:49 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 12:33 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Deregulation of Texas Electricity Market: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deregulati...ity_market

Once again, you are being deliberately obtuse, and it's as tiresome as ever.

I am very confused - how am I being obtuse? I called the Texas electric market unregulated, and you said it isn't unregulated...

Legitimately confused here.

ERCOT
PUC

Sorry, but I assumed you knew that deregulation does not leave a market unregulated.

Ah, I see. The issue was that I accidentally used "unregulated" instead of "deregulated." Didn't mean to imply that there was absolutely no regulation of the electricity market in Texas. My b.

My point, was that the state of Texas isn't making decisions about what plants open or close. Or what type of power generation is used. Market forces drive all of that because of the deregulated market (used the right term this time). So when we see articles about how Texas is doing something, it gives me pause, because Texas (the state) isn't directly driving our energy production decisions, right?

You oversimplify. Permitting, incentives, and state support of renewables initiatives play a large part in the direction power generation takes. The explosive growth of wind power in Texas had everything to do with the state expediting creation of right of ways and permitting for transmission lines from west Texas to the population centers. This is a good example of "business-friendly" government working in ways that benefit everyone.
08-30-2019 09:03 PM
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Tomball Owl Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
I know my previous comments on this matter were in a different thread, but this one is more appropriate.

My daughter drove from San Antonio to Corpus last Thursday afternoon down I-37. She returned to New Braunfels today, Sunday. I ask her if the wind farm was up and running. She said all the turbines were dead stopped on both Thursday late afternoon and Sunday midday.

So that's 4 trips in the last 4 weeks on I-37 past the massive wind farm north of Corpus. On all 4 occasions, all of the wind turbines were dead stopped. It's not like there is no need for power right now as the heat indices are and have been above 100 during this period. Clearly something is going on affecting the reliability of this power source.

I have not been able to find anything on-line as to what is going on. A more adept researcher is clearly needed. Almedenmike...paging Almedenmike.
(This post was last modified: 09-01-2019 03:21 PM by Tomball Owl.)
09-01-2019 01:55 PM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #23
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
(08-30-2019 09:03 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 01:02 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 12:56 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 12:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 12:49 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Once again, you are being deliberately obtuse, and it's as tiresome as ever.

I am very confused - how am I being obtuse? I called the Texas electric market unregulated, and you said it isn't unregulated...

Legitimately confused here.

ERCOT
PUC

Sorry, but I assumed you knew that deregulation does not leave a market unregulated.

Ah, I see. The issue was that I accidentally used "unregulated" instead of "deregulated." Didn't mean to imply that there was absolutely no regulation of the electricity market in Texas. My b.

My point, was that the state of Texas isn't making decisions about what plants open or close. Or what type of power generation is used. Market forces drive all of that because of the deregulated market (used the right term this time). So when we see articles about how Texas is doing something, it gives me pause, because Texas (the state) isn't directly driving our energy production decisions, right?

You oversimplify. Permitting, incentives, and state support of renewables initiatives play a large part in the direction power generation takes. The explosive growth of wind power in Texas had everything to do with the state expediting creation of right of ways and permitting for transmission lines from west Texas to the population centers. This is a good example of "business-friendly" government working in ways that benefit everyone.

My original comment was about how the state of Texas was not making decisions that cause the shutdown of coal, natural gas, or nuclear energy sources.

Are you arguing against that statement?
09-01-2019 02:29 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
(09-01-2019 02:29 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 09:03 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 01:02 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 12:56 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 12:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I am very confused - how am I being obtuse? I called the Texas electric market unregulated, and you said it isn't unregulated...

Legitimately confused here.

ERCOT
PUC

Sorry, but I assumed you knew that deregulation does not leave a market unregulated.

Ah, I see. The issue was that I accidentally used "unregulated" instead of "deregulated." Didn't mean to imply that there was absolutely no regulation of the electricity market in Texas. My b.

My point, was that the state of Texas isn't making decisions about what plants open or close. Or what type of power generation is used. Market forces drive all of that because of the deregulated market (used the right term this time). So when we see articles about how Texas is doing something, it gives me pause, because Texas (the state) isn't directly driving our energy production decisions, right?

You oversimplify. Permitting, incentives, and state support of renewables initiatives play a large part in the direction power generation takes. The explosive growth of wind power in Texas had everything to do with the state expediting creation of right of ways and permitting for transmission lines from west Texas to the population centers. This is a good example of "business-friendly" government working in ways that benefit everyone.

My original comment was about how the state of Texas was not making decisions that cause the shutdown of coal, natural gas, or nuclear energy sources.

Are you arguing against that statement?

Explicitly you are correct. Texas doesnt order the shuttering of such private ventures in such a manner as far as I know. Not many state governments operate on such a mandate based modus.

Their ancillary decisions on permitting, incentives, and state support of renewables initiatives certainly can and have done so.
09-01-2019 04:37 PM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #25
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
(09-01-2019 04:37 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 02:29 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 09:03 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 01:02 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 12:56 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  ERCOT
PUC

Sorry, but I assumed you knew that deregulation does not leave a market unregulated.

Ah, I see. The issue was that I accidentally used "unregulated" instead of "deregulated." Didn't mean to imply that there was absolutely no regulation of the electricity market in Texas. My b.

My point, was that the state of Texas isn't making decisions about what plants open or close. Or what type of power generation is used. Market forces drive all of that because of the deregulated market (used the right term this time). So when we see articles about how Texas is doing something, it gives me pause, because Texas (the state) isn't directly driving our energy production decisions, right?

You oversimplify. Permitting, incentives, and state support of renewables initiatives play a large part in the direction power generation takes. The explosive growth of wind power in Texas had everything to do with the state expediting creation of right of ways and permitting for transmission lines from west Texas to the population centers. This is a good example of "business-friendly" government working in ways that benefit everyone.

My original comment was about how the state of Texas was not making decisions that cause the shutdown of coal, natural gas, or nuclear energy sources.

Are you arguing against that statement?

Explicitly you are correct. Texas doesnt order the shuttering of such private ventures in such a manner as far as I know. Not many state governments operate on such a mandate based modus.

Their ancillary decisions on permitting, incentives, and state support of renewables initiatives certainly can and have done so.

So Texas has created an unfriendly environment for conventional energy producers?
09-01-2019 05:00 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
(09-01-2019 05:00 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 04:37 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 02:29 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 09:03 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 01:02 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Ah, I see. The issue was that I accidentally used "unregulated" instead of "deregulated." Didn't mean to imply that there was absolutely no regulation of the electricity market in Texas. My b.

My point, was that the state of Texas isn't making decisions about what plants open or close. Or what type of power generation is used. Market forces drive all of that because of the deregulated market (used the right term this time). So when we see articles about how Texas is doing something, it gives me pause, because Texas (the state) isn't directly driving our energy production decisions, right?

You oversimplify. Permitting, incentives, and state support of renewables initiatives play a large part in the direction power generation takes. The explosive growth of wind power in Texas had everything to do with the state expediting creation of right of ways and permitting for transmission lines from west Texas to the population centers. This is a good example of "business-friendly" government working in ways that benefit everyone.

My original comment was about how the state of Texas was not making decisions that cause the shutdown of coal, natural gas, or nuclear energy sources.

Are you arguing against that statement?

Explicitly you are correct. Texas doesnt order the shuttering of such private ventures in such a manner as far as I know. Not many state governments operate on such a mandate based modus.

Their ancillary decisions on permitting, incentives, and state support of renewables initiatives certainly can and have done so.

So Texas has created an unfriendly environment for conventional energy producers?

Perhaps you should do some homework and tell us the # of coal fired plants shut down in the last 10 years, the associated Mwattage, and the % of production that represents.

*That*would seemingly answer your question I would think.
09-01-2019 05:41 PM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #27
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
(09-01-2019 05:41 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 05:00 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 04:37 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-01-2019 02:29 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 09:03 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  You oversimplify. Permitting, incentives, and state support of renewables initiatives play a large part in the direction power generation takes. The explosive growth of wind power in Texas had everything to do with the state expediting creation of right of ways and permitting for transmission lines from west Texas to the population centers. This is a good example of "business-friendly" government working in ways that benefit everyone.

My original comment was about how the state of Texas was not making decisions that cause the shutdown of coal, natural gas, or nuclear energy sources.

Are you arguing against that statement?

Explicitly you are correct. Texas doesnt order the shuttering of such private ventures in such a manner as far as I know. Not many state governments operate on such a mandate based modus.

Their ancillary decisions on permitting, incentives, and state support of renewables initiatives certainly can and have done so.

So Texas has created an unfriendly environment for conventional energy producers?

Perhaps you should do some homework and tell us the # of coal fired plants shut down in the last 10 years, the associated Mwattage, and the % of production that represents.

*That*would seemingly answer your question I would think.

That information alone wouldn't help evaluate whether or not Texas has created an unfriendly environment for energy producers. We would need to know a lot more information regarding commodity prices, changes in regulatory environment (focused on state and local ordinances), age of infrastructure, capital investments by companies shutting plants down, etc.

That would be like saying the decline in flip phones purchased in Texas in the early 2010s was due to an unfriendly environment for them, as opposed to the existence and growing demand for smart phones.

Is the reason we're seeing coal plants shut down and get moth balled because the state of Texas is creating burdensome regulations and disincentivizing their operation/construction, or are producers seeing more opportunity for profit in wind or natural gas?

For example:

Quote:Coal-fired power plants have shut down in Texas and across the nation in recent years as they were undercut by cheaper natural gas and the rapidly falling cost of renewable energy, such as wind and solar. For the past two years, Gibbons Creek has operated as a “peaker plant,” dormant except during the scorching summer months when demand soars, supplies dwindle and prices spike.

In recent years, however, additional supplies from other sources, particularly wind, have moderated the summer price spikes that made it worth the cost of keeping peaker plants ready to go into operation. Peaker plants now face the growing likelihood that they may never be called upon to produce power, even as they maintain and staff them.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/busines...515334.php
09-01-2019 05:59 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
"cheaper natural gas".

Hmm. I guess that fracking thing is worth all the earthquakes.
09-01-2019 06:16 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
But of course, cheaper energy, lower expenses for Americans, and renewed dependence on Middle East oil must be very attractive to Kamala Harris.

Her climate plan: "outright bans on hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, for oil and gas, and on offshore oil and gas drilling."

Also, "...she would consider changing dietary guidelines to reduce consumption of red meat, the production of which is responsible for a large portion of the world’s planet-warming emissions. She even said she would consider a national ban on plastic straws, while conceding that paper straws are trickier to sip from. "

Wow, how is she going to enforce these "dietary guidelines"? Make hamburger illegal? Meatless Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays in our schools? Raise taxes on cattle? She does not say.

I don't care about the straws. Paper is OK with me. Made from trees, right?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...i51#page=2
(This post was last modified: 09-05-2019 01:05 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
09-05-2019 01:03 AM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #30
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
(09-05-2019 01:03 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  But of course, cheaper energy, lower expenses for Americans, and renewed dependence on Middle East oil must be very attractive to Kamala Harris.

Her climate plan: "outright bans on hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, for oil and gas, and on offshore oil and gas drilling."

Also, "...she would consider changing dietary guidelines to reduce consumption of red meat, the production of which is responsible for a large portion of the world’s planet-warming emissions. She even said she would consider a national ban on plastic straws, while conceding that paper straws are trickier to sip from. "

Wow, how is she going to enforce these "dietary guidelines"? Make hamburger illegal? Meatless Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays in our schools? Raise taxes on cattle? She does not say.

I don't care about the straws. Paper is OK with me. Made from trees, right?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...i51#page=2

Completely disagree with Harris regarding an outright ban on fracking and offshore drilling.

I understand, and agree with, enforcing regulations that limit where fracking can take place. I’ve seen sites located within neighborhoods in Colorado and I can’t imagine being a homeowner that all of a sudden has a major drilling operation pop up next door, for a number of reasons. But when it is implemented correctly, fracking provides tremendous value and doesn’t pose a significant environmental risk.

Until we can completely remove ourselves from fossil fuels, the idea of banning their extraction and use is unrealistic. But I completely support not throwing our full weight behind the exploration and extraction in every place across the country.
09-05-2019 06:35 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
(09-05-2019 06:35 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 01:03 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  But of course, cheaper energy, lower expenses for Americans, and renewed dependence on Middle East oil must be very attractive to Kamala Harris.

Her climate plan: "outright bans on hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, for oil and gas, and on offshore oil and gas drilling."

Also, "...she would consider changing dietary guidelines to reduce consumption of red meat, the production of which is responsible for a large portion of the world’s planet-warming emissions. She even said she would consider a national ban on plastic straws, while conceding that paper straws are trickier to sip from. "

Wow, how is she going to enforce these "dietary guidelines"? Make hamburger illegal? Meatless Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays in our schools? Raise taxes on cattle? She does not say.

I don't care about the straws. Paper is OK with me. Made from trees, right?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...i51#page=2

Completely disagree with Harris regarding an outright ban on fracking and offshore drilling.

I understand, and agree with, enforcing regulations that limit where fracking can take place. I’ve seen sites located within neighborhoods in Colorado and I can’t imagine being a homeowner that all of a sudden has a major drilling operation pop up next door, for a number of reasons. But when it is implemented correctly, fracking provides tremendous value and doesn’t pose a significant environmental risk.

Until we can completely remove ourselves from fossil fuels, the idea of banning their extraction and use is unrealistic. But I completely support not throwing our full weight behind the exploration and extraction in every place across the country.

Before I signed my O&G lease, I studied the situation and worked with a group of other landowners. We negotiated better leases which, among other things, gave us the right to dictate where wells would be drilled. Without that, the exploration company could have placed a rig in my living room, and I heard stories of oil drillers doing just that. Sounds to me like those people in Colorado just saw $$$$ and signed without thinking.

But specifically to fracking, that is 3-4 days for lots of noise, lots of dust, lots of vehicles, lots of people, then nothing. Without fracking, that hole is just a hole. I could stand it for 3-4 days. The O&G company offered to move some people to hotels for the fracking. I did not go.
09-05-2019 10:30 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
(09-05-2019 06:35 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 01:03 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  But of course, cheaper energy, lower expenses for Americans, and renewed dependence on Middle East oil must be very attractive to Kamala Harris.

Her climate plan: "outright bans on hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, for oil and gas, and on offshore oil and gas drilling."

Also, "...she would consider changing dietary guidelines to reduce consumption of red meat, the production of which is responsible for a large portion of the world’s planet-warming emissions. She even said she would consider a national ban on plastic straws, while conceding that paper straws are trickier to sip from. "

Wow, how is she going to enforce these "dietary guidelines"? Make hamburger illegal? Meatless Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays in our schools? Raise taxes on cattle? She does not say.

I don't care about the straws. Paper is OK with me. Made from trees, right?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...i51#page=2

Completely disagree with Harris regarding an outright ban on fracking and offshore drilling.

I understand, and agree with, enforcing regulations that limit where fracking can take place. I’ve seen sites located within neighborhoods in Colorado and I can’t imagine being a homeowner that all of a sudden has a major drilling operation pop up next door, for a number of reasons. But when it is implemented correctly, fracking provides tremendous value and doesn’t pose a significant environmental risk.

Until we can completely remove ourselves from fossil fuels, the idea of banning their extraction and use is unrealistic. But I completely support not throwing our full weight behind the exploration and extraction in every place across the country.

Well, drilling and fracking are two different things. But both are temporary.

Before I signed my O&G lease, I studied the situation and worked with a group of other landowners. We negotiated better leases which, among other things, gave us the right to dictate where wells would be drilled. In effect, we negotiated our own regulations. Didn't need no stinkin' government agency to protect us. But I guess, the government is there to protect the stupid from themselves, right?

Without that, the exploration company could have placed a rig in my living room, and I heard stories of oil drillers doing just that. Sounds to me like those people in Colorado just saw $$$$ and signed without thinking.

But specifically to fracking, that is 3-4 days for lots of noise, lots of dust, lots of vehicles, lots of people, then nothing. Without fracking, that hole is just a hole. I could stand it for 3-4 days. The O&G company offered to move some people to hotels for the fracking. I did not go.

I think the point of the Warren plan is that she, like Harris and Beta and others, will propose anything that gets applause at rallies and votes in primaries, without regard to the actual merits of the action. A stupid proposal, supported by the stupid party.

Kudos to you for not marching in lockstep.
(This post was last modified: 09-05-2019 10:41 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
09-05-2019 10:37 AM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #33
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
(09-05-2019 10:30 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 06:35 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 01:03 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  But of course, cheaper energy, lower expenses for Americans, and renewed dependence on Middle East oil must be very attractive to Kamala Harris.

Her climate plan: "outright bans on hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, for oil and gas, and on offshore oil and gas drilling."

Also, "...she would consider changing dietary guidelines to reduce consumption of red meat, the production of which is responsible for a large portion of the world’s planet-warming emissions. She even said she would consider a national ban on plastic straws, while conceding that paper straws are trickier to sip from. "

Wow, how is she going to enforce these "dietary guidelines"? Make hamburger illegal? Meatless Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays in our schools? Raise taxes on cattle? She does not say.

I don't care about the straws. Paper is OK with me. Made from trees, right?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...i51#page=2

Completely disagree with Harris regarding an outright ban on fracking and offshore drilling.

I understand, and agree with, enforcing regulations that limit where fracking can take place. I’ve seen sites located within neighborhoods in Colorado and I can’t imagine being a homeowner that all of a sudden has a major drilling operation pop up next door, for a number of reasons. But when it is implemented correctly, fracking provides tremendous value and doesn’t pose a significant environmental risk.

Until we can completely remove ourselves from fossil fuels, the idea of banning their extraction and use is unrealistic. But I completely support not throwing our full weight behind the exploration and extraction in every place across the country.

Before I signed my O&G lease, I studied the situation and worked with a group of other landowners. We negotiated better leases which, among other things, gave us the right to dictate where wells would be drilled. Without that, the exploration company could have placed a rig in my living room, and I heard stories of oil drillers doing just that. Sounds to me like those people in Colorado just saw $$$$ and signed without thinking.

But specifically to fracking, that is 3-4 days for lots of noise, lots of dust, lots of vehicles, lots of people, then nothing. Without fracking, that hole is just a hole. I could stand it for 3-4 days. The O&G company offered to move some people to hotels for the fracking. I did not go.

In Colorado, the issue hasn't been with people signing leases and then being annoyed that an oil well popped up on their property. The issue is that the oil rig popped up on the property right next door, that someone else owns and that they have no say over.

It's basically a zoning issue.
09-05-2019 10:40 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
(09-05-2019 10:40 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 10:30 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 06:35 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 01:03 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  But of course, cheaper energy, lower expenses for Americans, and renewed dependence on Middle East oil must be very attractive to Kamala Harris.

Her climate plan: "outright bans on hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, for oil and gas, and on offshore oil and gas drilling."

Also, "...she would consider changing dietary guidelines to reduce consumption of red meat, the production of which is responsible for a large portion of the world’s planet-warming emissions. She even said she would consider a national ban on plastic straws, while conceding that paper straws are trickier to sip from. "

Wow, how is she going to enforce these "dietary guidelines"? Make hamburger illegal? Meatless Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays in our schools? Raise taxes on cattle? She does not say.

I don't care about the straws. Paper is OK with me. Made from trees, right?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...i51#page=2

Completely disagree with Harris regarding an outright ban on fracking and offshore drilling.

I understand, and agree with, enforcing regulations that limit where fracking can take place. I’ve seen sites located within neighborhoods in Colorado and I can’t imagine being a homeowner that all of a sudden has a major drilling operation pop up next door, for a number of reasons. But when it is implemented correctly, fracking provides tremendous value and doesn’t pose a significant environmental risk.

Until we can completely remove ourselves from fossil fuels, the idea of banning their extraction and use is unrealistic. But I completely support not throwing our full weight behind the exploration and extraction in every place across the country.

Before I signed my O&G lease, I studied the situation and worked with a group of other landowners. We negotiated better leases which, among other things, gave us the right to dictate where wells would be drilled. Without that, the exploration company could have placed a rig in my living room, and I heard stories of oil drillers doing just that. Sounds to me like those people in Colorado just saw $$$$ and signed without thinking.

But specifically to fracking, that is 3-4 days for lots of noise, lots of dust, lots of vehicles, lots of people, then nothing. Without fracking, that hole is just a hole. I could stand it for 3-4 days. The O&G company offered to move some people to hotels for the fracking. I did not go.

In Colorado, the issue hasn't been with people signing leases and then being annoyed that an oil well popped up on their property. The issue is that the oil rig popped up on the property right next door, that someone else owns and that they have no say over.

It's basically a zoning issue.


I don't know Colorado law. In Texas that would not happen. You cannot lease just, say one building lot in a neighborhood and drill on it. It must be amalgamated with others into a tract of minimum size.

My GF has a house in a subdivision. An O&G company got homeowners in the area to sign leases, until they had enough enough to form a drilling allotment. Part of the agreement(s) was the location of the drilling. Today, she gets a $100 check several times a year for the royalties on her 1/3 acre lot. The drilling is out of sight and out of mind. In fact, we are not sure where the wells are.

Point remains: Drilling takes about three weeks, fracking 3-4 days. After that it is not a noise problem. No idea what is being done wrong in Colorado.
09-05-2019 10:52 AM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #35
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
(09-05-2019 10:52 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 10:40 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 10:30 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 06:35 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 01:03 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  But of course, cheaper energy, lower expenses for Americans, and renewed dependence on Middle East oil must be very attractive to Kamala Harris.

Her climate plan: "outright bans on hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, for oil and gas, and on offshore oil and gas drilling."

Also, "...she would consider changing dietary guidelines to reduce consumption of red meat, the production of which is responsible for a large portion of the world’s planet-warming emissions. She even said she would consider a national ban on plastic straws, while conceding that paper straws are trickier to sip from. "

Wow, how is she going to enforce these "dietary guidelines"? Make hamburger illegal? Meatless Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays in our schools? Raise taxes on cattle? She does not say.

I don't care about the straws. Paper is OK with me. Made from trees, right?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...i51#page=2

Completely disagree with Harris regarding an outright ban on fracking and offshore drilling.

I understand, and agree with, enforcing regulations that limit where fracking can take place. I’ve seen sites located within neighborhoods in Colorado and I can’t imagine being a homeowner that all of a sudden has a major drilling operation pop up next door, for a number of reasons. But when it is implemented correctly, fracking provides tremendous value and doesn’t pose a significant environmental risk.

Until we can completely remove ourselves from fossil fuels, the idea of banning their extraction and use is unrealistic. But I completely support not throwing our full weight behind the exploration and extraction in every place across the country.

Before I signed my O&G lease, I studied the situation and worked with a group of other landowners. We negotiated better leases which, among other things, gave us the right to dictate where wells would be drilled. Without that, the exploration company could have placed a rig in my living room, and I heard stories of oil drillers doing just that. Sounds to me like those people in Colorado just saw $$$$ and signed without thinking.

But specifically to fracking, that is 3-4 days for lots of noise, lots of dust, lots of vehicles, lots of people, then nothing. Without fracking, that hole is just a hole. I could stand it for 3-4 days. The O&G company offered to move some people to hotels for the fracking. I did not go.

In Colorado, the issue hasn't been with people signing leases and then being annoyed that an oil well popped up on their property. The issue is that the oil rig popped up on the property right next door, that someone else owns and that they have no say over.

It's basically a zoning issue.


I don't know Colorado law. In Texas that would not happen. You cannot lease just, say one building lot in a neighborhood and drill on it. It must be amalgamated with others into a tract of minimum size.

My GF has a house in a subdivision. An O&G company got homeowners in the area to sign leases, until they had enough enough to form a drilling allotment. Part of the agreement(s) was the location of the drilling. Today, she gets a $100 check several times a year for the royalties on her 1/3 acre lot. The drilling is out of sight and out of mind. In fact, we are not sure where the wells are.

Point remains: Drilling takes about three weeks, fracking 3-4 days. After that it is not a noise problem. No idea what is being done wrong in Colorado.

So sounds like you agree with me about restricting where oil and gas exploration activities can occur.

Good to hear that there are some regs restricting operations in Texas. My guess is that there are situations that would allow wells to be installed near residential areas, though, as I would be surprised if that platting issue would apply to the properties bounding a residential development.
09-05-2019 11:44 AM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
(09-05-2019 10:40 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 10:30 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 06:35 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 01:03 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  But of course, cheaper energy, lower expenses for Americans, and renewed dependence on Middle East oil must be very attractive to Kamala Harris.

Her climate plan: "outright bans on hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, for oil and gas, and on offshore oil and gas drilling."

Also, "...she would consider changing dietary guidelines to reduce consumption of red meat, the production of which is responsible for a large portion of the world’s planet-warming emissions. She even said she would consider a national ban on plastic straws, while conceding that paper straws are trickier to sip from. "

Wow, how is she going to enforce these "dietary guidelines"? Make hamburger illegal? Meatless Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays in our schools? Raise taxes on cattle? She does not say.

I don't care about the straws. Paper is OK with me. Made from trees, right?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...i51#page=2

Completely disagree with Harris regarding an outright ban on fracking and offshore drilling.

I understand, and agree with, enforcing regulations that limit where fracking can take place. I’ve seen sites located within neighborhoods in Colorado and I can’t imagine being a homeowner that all of a sudden has a major drilling operation pop up next door, for a number of reasons. But when it is implemented correctly, fracking provides tremendous value and doesn’t pose a significant environmental risk.

Until we can completely remove ourselves from fossil fuels, the idea of banning their extraction and use is unrealistic. But I completely support not throwing our full weight behind the exploration and extraction in every place across the country.

Before I signed my O&G lease, I studied the situation and worked with a group of other landowners. We negotiated better leases which, among other things, gave us the right to dictate where wells would be drilled. Without that, the exploration company could have placed a rig in my living room, and I heard stories of oil drillers doing just that. Sounds to me like those people in Colorado just saw $$$$ and signed without thinking.

But specifically to fracking, that is 3-4 days for lots of noise, lots of dust, lots of vehicles, lots of people, then nothing. Without fracking, that hole is just a hole. I could stand it for 3-4 days. The O&G company offered to move some people to hotels for the fracking. I did not go.

In Colorado, the issue hasn't been with people signing leases and then being annoyed that an oil well popped up on their property. The issue is that the oil rig popped up on the property right next door, that someone else owns and that they have no say over.

It's basically a zoning issue.

Actually its not. The rules are very specific drilling and operator rules set out by the Colorado Oil and Gas Conservation Commission.

There are rules covering minimum tract size, minimum offset, and even noise and visual aesthetics. The only thing that it really lacks is having setbacks from property lines (i.e. lease lines).

And, zoning can deny any operations on a tract there. Most developers in oil producing regions pre-form the pooling agreement prior to development and include the issue within the deed restrictions and platting.

Sounds to me that the issue you speak of was in an older area that lacked this planning, and met the tract requirements for a minimum lease size.

And bluntly, absent an agreement amongst the landowners, what one landowner does with his property is their business. For example, one of my neighbors on a tract has massive amounts of mesquite and garbage cacti on his side of the line. No matter how destructive or annoying that they may be, I am powerless to keep him from doing that. Along with the massive amount of metal junk stacked along the property line. But that is the definition of private property, which cuts both ways.
09-05-2019 11:48 AM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
(09-05-2019 11:44 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 10:52 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 10:40 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 10:30 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 06:35 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Completely disagree with Harris regarding an outright ban on fracking and offshore drilling.

I understand, and agree with, enforcing regulations that limit where fracking can take place. I’ve seen sites located within neighborhoods in Colorado and I can’t imagine being a homeowner that all of a sudden has a major drilling operation pop up next door, for a number of reasons. But when it is implemented correctly, fracking provides tremendous value and doesn’t pose a significant environmental risk.

Until we can completely remove ourselves from fossil fuels, the idea of banning their extraction and use is unrealistic. But I completely support not throwing our full weight behind the exploration and extraction in every place across the country.

Before I signed my O&G lease, I studied the situation and worked with a group of other landowners. We negotiated better leases which, among other things, gave us the right to dictate where wells would be drilled. Without that, the exploration company could have placed a rig in my living room, and I heard stories of oil drillers doing just that. Sounds to me like those people in Colorado just saw $$$$ and signed without thinking.

But specifically to fracking, that is 3-4 days for lots of noise, lots of dust, lots of vehicles, lots of people, then nothing. Without fracking, that hole is just a hole. I could stand it for 3-4 days. The O&G company offered to move some people to hotels for the fracking. I did not go.

In Colorado, the issue hasn't been with people signing leases and then being annoyed that an oil well popped up on their property. The issue is that the oil rig popped up on the property right next door, that someone else owns and that they have no say over.

It's basically a zoning issue.


I don't know Colorado law. In Texas that would not happen. You cannot lease just, say one building lot in a neighborhood and drill on it. It must be amalgamated with others into a tract of minimum size.

My GF has a house in a subdivision. An O&G company got homeowners in the area to sign leases, until they had enough enough to form a drilling allotment. Part of the agreement(s) was the location of the drilling. Today, she gets a $100 check several times a year for the royalties on her 1/3 acre lot. The drilling is out of sight and out of mind. In fact, we are not sure where the wells are.

Point remains: Drilling takes about three weeks, fracking 3-4 days. After that it is not a noise problem. No idea what is being done wrong in Colorado.

So sounds like you agree with me about restricting where oil and gas exploration activities can occur.

Good to hear that there are some regs restricting operations in Texas. My guess is that there are situations that would allow wells to be installed near residential areas, though, as I would be surprised if that platting issue would apply to the properties bounding a residential development.

Depends on which was present first.

The Railroad Commission does not regulate how close a gas or oil well can be drilled to a residential property. However, for a well within city limits, a city may enact ordinances regarding the proximity to dwellings or other structures. In addition, there is a law in the Municipal Code, Section 253.005©, which provides: "A well may not be drilled in the thickly settled part of the municipality or within 200 feet of a private residence."
09-05-2019 11:51 AM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #38
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
(09-05-2019 11:48 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 10:40 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 10:30 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 06:35 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 01:03 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  But of course, cheaper energy, lower expenses for Americans, and renewed dependence on Middle East oil must be very attractive to Kamala Harris.

Her climate plan: "outright bans on hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, for oil and gas, and on offshore oil and gas drilling."

Also, "...she would consider changing dietary guidelines to reduce consumption of red meat, the production of which is responsible for a large portion of the world’s planet-warming emissions. She even said she would consider a national ban on plastic straws, while conceding that paper straws are trickier to sip from. "

Wow, how is she going to enforce these "dietary guidelines"? Make hamburger illegal? Meatless Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays in our schools? Raise taxes on cattle? She does not say.

I don't care about the straws. Paper is OK with me. Made from trees, right?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...i51#page=2

Completely disagree with Harris regarding an outright ban on fracking and offshore drilling.

I understand, and agree with, enforcing regulations that limit where fracking can take place. I’ve seen sites located within neighborhoods in Colorado and I can’t imagine being a homeowner that all of a sudden has a major drilling operation pop up next door, for a number of reasons. But when it is implemented correctly, fracking provides tremendous value and doesn’t pose a significant environmental risk.

Until we can completely remove ourselves from fossil fuels, the idea of banning their extraction and use is unrealistic. But I completely support not throwing our full weight behind the exploration and extraction in every place across the country.

Before I signed my O&G lease, I studied the situation and worked with a group of other landowners. We negotiated better leases which, among other things, gave us the right to dictate where wells would be drilled. Without that, the exploration company could have placed a rig in my living room, and I heard stories of oil drillers doing just that. Sounds to me like those people in Colorado just saw $$$$ and signed without thinking.

But specifically to fracking, that is 3-4 days for lots of noise, lots of dust, lots of vehicles, lots of people, then nothing. Without fracking, that hole is just a hole. I could stand it for 3-4 days. The O&G company offered to move some people to hotels for the fracking. I did not go.

In Colorado, the issue hasn't been with people signing leases and then being annoyed that an oil well popped up on their property. The issue is that the oil rig popped up on the property right next door, that someone else owns and that they have no say over.

It's basically a zoning issue.

Actually its not. The rules are very specific drilling and operator rules set out by the Colorado Oil and Gas Conservation Commission.

There are rules covering minimum tract size, minimum offset, and even noise and visual aesthetics. The only thing that it really lacks is having setbacks from property lines (i.e. lease lines).

And, zoning can deny any operations on a tract there. Most developers in oil producing regions pre-form the pooling agreement prior to development and include the issue within the deed restrictions and platting.

Sounds to me that the issue you speak of was in an older area that lacked this planning, and met the tract requirements for a minimum lease size.

And bluntly, absent an agreement amongst the landowners, what one landowner does with his property is their business. For example, one of my neighbors on a tract has massive amounts of mesquite and garbage cacti on his side of the line. No matter how destructive or annoying that they may be, I am powerless to keep him from doing that. Along with the massive amount of metal junk stacked along the property line. But that is the definition of private property, which cuts both ways.

I fail to see how this isn’t a zoning issue. None of the state o&g regulations keep an operator from operating in a residential area, so long as they meet the requirements you laid out...

The drills I saw were not in a new neighborhood that popped up around them, and there are countless articles that discuss this issue if you look into it. It’s why cities across the country tried to pass ordinances restricting fracking within their boundaries.
09-05-2019 12:00 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
(09-05-2019 11:44 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 10:52 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 10:40 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 10:30 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-05-2019 06:35 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Completely disagree with Harris regarding an outright ban on fracking and offshore drilling.

I understand, and agree with, enforcing regulations that limit where fracking can take place. I’ve seen sites located within neighborhoods in Colorado and I can’t imagine being a homeowner that all of a sudden has a major drilling operation pop up next door, for a number of reasons. But when it is implemented correctly, fracking provides tremendous value and doesn’t pose a significant environmental risk.

Until we can completely remove ourselves from fossil fuels, the idea of banning their extraction and use is unrealistic. But I completely support not throwing our full weight behind the exploration and extraction in every place across the country.

Before I signed my O&G lease, I studied the situation and worked with a group of other landowners. We negotiated better leases which, among other things, gave us the right to dictate where wells would be drilled. Without that, the exploration company could have placed a rig in my living room, and I heard stories of oil drillers doing just that. Sounds to me like those people in Colorado just saw $$$$ and signed without thinking.

But specifically to fracking, that is 3-4 days for lots of noise, lots of dust, lots of vehicles, lots of people, then nothing. Without fracking, that hole is just a hole. I could stand it for 3-4 days. The O&G company offered to move some people to hotels for the fracking. I did not go.

In Colorado, the issue hasn't been with people signing leases and then being annoyed that an oil well popped up on their property. The issue is that the oil rig popped up on the property right next door, that someone else owns and that they have no say over.

It's basically a zoning issue.


I don't know Colorado law. In Texas that would not happen. You cannot lease just, say one building lot in a neighborhood and drill on it. It must be amalgamated with others into a tract of minimum size.

My GF has a house in a subdivision. An O&G company got homeowners in the area to sign leases, until they had enough enough to form a drilling allotment. Part of the agreement(s) was the location of the drilling. Today, she gets a $100 check several times a year for the royalties on her 1/3 acre lot. The drilling is out of sight and out of mind. In fact, we are not sure where the wells are.

Point remains: Drilling takes about three weeks, fracking 3-4 days. After that it is not a noise problem. No idea what is being done wrong in Colorado.

So sounds like you agree with me about restricting where oil and gas exploration activities can occur.

Good to hear that there are some regs restricting operations in Texas. My guess is that there are situations that would allow wells to be installed near residential areas, though, as I would be surprised if that platting issue would apply to the properties bounding a residential development.

Yes and no. hard to see where you get that from, unless it is just wishful thinking. This falls in my camp of "some restrictions are good, too much is bad".

If you want to see what the restrictions are designed to stop, look at old pictures of Kilgore.

http://www.texasescapes.com/EastTexasTow...-Texas.htm

The Railroad Commission is the managing agency in Texas.
09-05-2019 12:29 PM
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Post: #40
RE: Climate Change, Alternative Energy, and the like
(09-05-2019 10:37 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Well, drilling and fracking are two different things. But both are temporary.

Before I signed my O&G lease, I studied the situation and worked with a group of other landowners. We negotiated better leases which, among other things, gave us the right to dictate where wells would be drilled. In effect, we negotiated our own regulations. Didn't need no stinkin' government agency to protect us. But I guess, the government is there to protect the stupid from themselves, right?

Without that, the exploration company could have placed a rig in my living room, and I heard stories of oil drillers doing just that. Sounds to me like those people in Colorado just saw $$$$ and signed without thinking.

But specifically to fracking, that is 3-4 days for lots of noise, lots of dust, lots of vehicles, lots of people, then nothing. Without fracking, that hole is just a hole. I could stand it for 3-4 days. The O&G company offered to move some people to hotels for the fracking. I did not go.

I think the point of the Warren plan is that she, like Harris and Beta and others, will propose anything that gets applause at rallies and votes in primaries, without regard to the actual merits of the action. A stupid proposal, supported by the stupid party.

Kudos to you for not marching in lockstep.

I'm not sure why you have to ruin a perfectly reasonable conversation with crap like this. Do you just hang out in The Quad to "own the libs"? Or do you this as a place for constructive and stimulating dialogue?
09-05-2019 03:09 PM
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