(08-28-2019 03:53 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  A decade ago, Millennials were playing football. The biggest generation in the history of earth. The ones coming along today don't have the same population.

I realize the harm factor is at play, but it's not the sole cause.

Great point

I’ll Also add the rise in charter and magnet schools that do not offer sports drawing away from schools within their district that do

(08-28-2019 08:15 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(08-28-2019 03:53 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  A decade ago, Millennials were playing football. The biggest generation in the history of earth. The ones coming along today don't have the same population.

I realize the harm factor is at play, but it's not the sole cause.

Great point

I’ll Also add the rise in charter and magnet schools that do not offer sports drawing away from schools within their district that do

Good point - the growth of these 200-400 specialized HS offer no or limited sports.

My nephew, for example played sports in elementary and middle school. He now goes to a magnet bio-sciences HS, that has no traditional sports (they have things like robotics, etc).

We keep adding high schools in Texas at a rapid pace, so we have not seen a drop off as of yet. School Districts continue to pour way too much money into facilities and stadiums. So until that ends expect high school football to remain a huge deal in Texas.

(08-28-2019 04:31 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Football is increasingly becoming a regional sport, with hot beds in the Midwest and the South. The East Coast and West Coast are both losing interest in the sport

Soccer is also taking kids away from good sports.


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A recent story on high school football in California. Overall participation in high school athletics in California is up for a record seventh straight year. but football is down, again:
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spo...pation-cif

"In the massive Southern Section — which includes nearly 600 schools (compared with 124 in San Diego) including nationally known programs and spanning most of the counties in Southern California — roughly one player in seven over the last six years has dropped off football rosters."

I don't see the talented players dropping football. The problem is depth. If you are a future Brian Urlacher or future Ray Lewis, you are playing. If you are a good player that may earn a football scholarship, you are playing. Or if you just love the game, you are playing. There are plenty of people that watch and like the sport, but they may not want to actually play football.

Roger Pielke Jr., director at the Sports Governance Center at University of Colorado, said that while “football is in a relatively healthy condition,” the numbers in California and nationally point to signs that “we in the United States are past peak football.”
“It’s undeniable at this point that there’s been a decline in this sport,” Pielke said, adding that youth and high school participation indicate “at a minimum, a slow attrition.”

(08-28-2019 08:54 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  

(08-28-2019 04:31 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Football is increasingly becoming a regional sport, with hot beds in the Midwest and the South. The East Coast and West Coast are both losing interest in the sport

Soccer is also taking kids away from good sports.

Soccer and baseball were the sports you could get in on at a very early age without more than a body, and maybe a glove or cleats. It's just that kids tuned it out as they got older for football and basketball. Well, now people are sticking with soccer more. It's not really "taking away" from football, because football took from soccer first.

Out east here, it's lacrosse and ice hockey that became more visible. In eastern PA, these weren't in existence thirty years ago. They're more represented now.

(08-28-2019 03:12 PM)XLance Wrote:  https://www.highschoolot.com/nc-sees-23-.../18594544/



North Carolina has had a 23% drop in participation in the last decade.

North Carolina remains 12th nationally in terms of high school sports participation with 198,252 participants, but that number dropped from 203,474 during the 2017-2018 school year and 203,588 in the 2016-2017 school year.

The number of boys participating in sports in North Carolina dropped from 113,708 during the 2017-2018 school year to 110,711 last year. Girls participation saw a drop from 89,766 to 87,541.

North Carolina's trend of fewer participants in football continued last year. Data shows 26,969 students participated in football in North Carolina during the fall of 2018, a drop of 5.7 percent from the fall of 2017. In the last five years, North Carolina has witnessed a decline of 9.5 percent in high school football. Over the last decade, participation in high school football has declined by 23.4 percent in North Carolina.

Football wasn't the only boys sport to see drops in participation last school year. The number of boys golfers dropped by 6 percent, boys cross country participation dropped by 5.5 percent, wrestling declined by 4.4 percent, indoor track participation for boys dropped by 4.2 percent, baseball saw a decline of 2.2 percent, boys outdoor track participation dropped by 2.1 percent, boys tennis participation dropped by 0.5 percent.


Nationally last year.....
The biggest drops came from football and basketball. Participation in 11-man football dropped by 30,829 to 1,006,013, which is the lowest mark since the 1999-2000 school year. This marks the fifth straight year football participation declined.

.UNC & Duke to the Big East!!! Isn't that what you want, XLance??

(08-29-2019 12:19 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  .UNC & Duke to the Big East!!! Isn't that what you want, XLance??

Please!


The ACC could rid itself of Tarhole Johnny. It could move conference offices out of NC. The conference wouldn't feel a bias towards NC.


North Carolina and Duke would finally figure out how insignificant they really are outside of two weeks a year.

(08-28-2019 03:53 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  A decade ago, Millennials were playing football. The biggest generation in the history of earth. The ones coming along today don't have the same population.

I realize the harm factor is at play, but it's not the sole cause.

US Population 0-17 was 74.1m in 2010, it is 74.1m today. (US Census data). This is a record high.

While the birth rate per female has gone down, we added 25m more females in the last two decades, majority via immigration. That is somewhat normal for the last 100 years. Even with the declining birth rate, the sheer number of females of childbearing age is projected to increase the number of children to 76.3 m.

So when comparing 2010 data to today, you should see the same raw numbers participating, since there are exactly the same number of children as then.

I agree culture factors beyond fear of injury are at work. Primarily the increase in urban density and the decline in suburban youth populations (Santa Clara County suburbs are very much bucking that trend, but it probably has more to do with the sheer number of people moving in -- we literally are short of facilities and have to ration youth participation in many sports; but Pop Warner football is not one of then, it has been shrinking every year).

I think another culture factor is the increased investment parents have in children due to smaller family sizes and greater competition for high reward jobs beginning with increased competition in middle school for grades and scores. Since the majority of people now live in higher density major cities and their suburbs, the competition has become more intense, more like Europe or Asia than the US just a few decades ago.

Where football is still popular, and sport in general, is where academic achievement is valued the least, which is among African American communities and in the Southeastern part of the US, and also a good chunk of the Midwest. Football has declined the most rapidly where Academics are valued the most, which is the Eastern Corridor, especially as you get north into New England, and along the Pacific Coast.

But since to absolute numbers of youth population continue to slowly grow, a decline in the number playing sports, especially football, cannot be attributed to fewer children.

(08-28-2019 08:28 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-28-2019 08:15 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(08-28-2019 03:53 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  A decade ago, Millennials were playing football. The biggest generation in the history of earth. The ones coming along today don't have the same population.

I realize the harm factor is at play, but it's not the sole cause.

Great point

I’ll Also add the rise in charter and magnet schools that do not offer sports drawing away from schools within their district that do

Good point - the growth of these 200-400 specialized HS offer no or limited sports.

My nephew, for example played sports in elementary and middle school. He now goes to a magnet bio-sciences HS, that has no traditional sports (they have things like robotics, etc).

Exactly.

My old district, which has about 7000 high school students, was split between 3 high schools that each Offered basically all sports ten years ago. Today, there is a 4th school with about 1500 students that offers none of them and it draws from the older 3 schools equally.

(08-28-2019 03:12 PM)XLance Wrote:  https://www.highschoolot.com/nc-sees-23-.../18594544/



North Carolina has had a 23% drop in participation in the last decade.

North Carolina remains 12th nationally in terms of high school sports participation with 198,252 participants, but that number dropped from 203,474 during the 2017-2018 school year and 203,588 in the 2016-2017 school year.

The number of boys participating in sports in North Carolina dropped from 113,708 during the 2017-2018 school year to 110,711 last year. Girls participation saw a drop from 89,766 to 87,541.

North Carolina's trend of fewer participants in football continued last year. Data shows 26,969 students participated in football in North Carolina during the fall of 2018, a drop of 5.7 percent from the fall of 2017. In the last five years, North Carolina has witnessed a decline of 9.5 percent in high school football. Over the last decade, participation in high school football has declined by 23.4 percent in North Carolina.

Football wasn't the only boys sport to see drops in participation last school year. The number of boys golfers dropped by 6 percent, boys cross country participation dropped by 5.5 percent, wrestling declined by 4.4 percent, indoor track participation for boys dropped by 4.2 percent, baseball saw a decline of 2.2 percent, boys outdoor track participation dropped by 2.1 percent, boys tennis participation dropped by 0.5 percent.


Nationally last year.....
The biggest drops came from football and basketball. Participation in 11-man football dropped by 30,829 to 1,006,013, which is the lowest mark since the 1999-2000 school year. This marks the fifth straight year football participation declined.

Ironic; football participation is down; same sex marriages are up.

(08-28-2019 05:42 PM)Chappy Wrote:  As I'm reading this thread I get a text that the JV football game my daughter is supposed to cheer at tomorrow has been cancelled due to 'not enough players'.

What is your daughter's 40 yard dash time?

(08-28-2019 04:10 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Fewer parents willing to pay for football because at many schools there is a fee to play and an expectation you'll do concession stand duty or some other time suck.

Many more parents working jobs outside the 8am to 5pm range and working weekends and not able to participate. Fewer kids with an adult in the home who played football.

In the private schools where cost is less of a barrier many parents are pushing kids away from football because they think something more "sophisticated" will help their kid get in the desired school. The health risk isn't as important as being in a proper status attached sport. I didn't know ANY school in Arkansas had lacrosse until I saw some people I know posting photos on Twitter while waiting on their kid at practice.

In Arkansas wrestling has become a thing with a local multi-millionaire paying start up costs for enough high schools that it is now a sanctioned sport and Arkansas-LR has added it as a varsity sport. Meanwhile his son is battling for the #2 QB spot at AState

Lacrosse is pretty dangerous. And a number of colleges won't touch wrestling because of the liability issues.

I also believe “The Browning of American” has some to do with it. As the immigrant populations increase, interest in the sports they follow will increase.

(08-29-2019 07:04 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-28-2019 04:10 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Fewer parents willing to pay for football because at many schools there is a fee to play and an expectation you'll do concession stand duty or some other time suck.

Many more parents working jobs outside the 8am to 5pm range and working weekends and not able to participate. Fewer kids with an adult in the home who played football.

In the private schools where cost is less of a barrier many parents are pushing kids away from football because they think something more "sophisticated" will help their kid get in the desired school. The health risk isn't as important as being in a proper status attached sport. I didn't know ANY school in Arkansas had lacrosse until I saw some people I know posting photos on Twitter while waiting on their kid at practice.

In Arkansas wrestling has become a thing with a local multi-millionaire paying start up costs for enough high schools that it is now a sanctioned sport and Arkansas-LR has added it as a varsity sport. Meanwhile his son is battling for the #2 QB spot at AState

Lacrosse is pretty dangerous. And a number of colleges won't touch wrestling because of the liability issues.

Most won't because it's a Title IX nightmare more than anything.

(08-29-2019 09:54 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(08-29-2019 07:04 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-28-2019 04:10 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Fewer parents willing to pay for football because at many schools there is a fee to play and an expectation you'll do concession stand duty or some other time suck.

Many more parents working jobs outside the 8am to 5pm range and working weekends and not able to participate. Fewer kids with an adult in the home who played football.

In the private schools where cost is less of a barrier many parents are pushing kids away from football because they think something more "sophisticated" will help their kid get in the desired school. The health risk isn't as important as being in a proper status attached sport. I didn't know ANY school in Arkansas had lacrosse until I saw some people I know posting photos on Twitter while waiting on their kid at practice.

In Arkansas wrestling has become a thing with a local multi-millionaire paying start up costs for enough high schools that it is now a sanctioned sport and Arkansas-LR has added it as a varsity sport. Meanwhile his son is battling for the #2 QB spot at AState

Lacrosse is pretty dangerous. And a number of colleges won't touch wrestling because of the liability issues.

Most won't because it's a Title IX nightmare more than anything.

1. The Title IX nightmare is the loss of football. It funds most all of the women's sports.

2. If we move to predominantly the sports the immigrants like they will never have the financial backing to be a successful replacement for football.

3. Baseball is the safest potential revenue sport but the revenue is small and the scholarships are partial.

So, I think we'll be keeping football for a while longer. It is still by far the most popular American sport.

As for lacrosse and soccer the numbers lag significantly. And as to North Carolina and California and states where the property values are very high it is no wonder that the sport is declining. Affluent parents would prefer their kids not play, and the poor can't afford to live there. Meanwhile in the Midwest, Southwest, and Southeast and rural pockets elsewhere it is still popular among the kids. But then in all of those areas things are still fairly affordable.

(08-29-2019 10:06 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-29-2019 09:54 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(08-29-2019 07:04 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-28-2019 04:10 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Fewer parents willing to pay for football because at many schools there is a fee to play and an expectation you'll do concession stand duty or some other time suck.

Many more parents working jobs outside the 8am to 5pm range and working weekends and not able to participate. Fewer kids with an adult in the home who played football.

In the private schools where cost is less of a barrier many parents are pushing kids away from football because they think something more "sophisticated" will help their kid get in the desired school. The health risk isn't as important as being in a proper status attached sport. I didn't know ANY school in Arkansas had lacrosse until I saw some people I know posting photos on Twitter while waiting on their kid at practice.

In Arkansas wrestling has become a thing with a local multi-millionaire paying start up costs for enough high schools that it is now a sanctioned sport and Arkansas-LR has added it as a varsity sport. Meanwhile his son is battling for the #2 QB spot at AState

Lacrosse is pretty dangerous. And a number of colleges won't touch wrestling because of the liability issues.

Most won't because it's a Title IX nightmare more than anything.

1. The Title IX nightmare is the loss of football. It funds most all of the women's sports.

2. If we move to predominantly the sports the immigrants like they will never have the financial backing to be a successful replacement for football.

3. Baseball is the safest potential revenue sport but the revenue is small and the scholarships are partial.

So, I think we'll be keeping football for a while longer. It is still by far the most popular American sport.

As for lacrosse and soccer the numbers lag significantly. And as to North Carolina and California and states where the property values are very high it is no wonder that the sport is declining. Affluent parents would prefer their kids not play, and the poor can't afford to live there. Meanwhile in the Midwest, Southwest, and Southeast and rural pockets elsewhere it is still popular among the kids. But then in all of those areas things are still fairly affordable.

Isn't the Raleigh area getting loaded up with Northeasterners, too? I imagine that would have a bit of an impact. New York City and Boston don't exactly have a strong youth football culture.

(08-29-2019 07:04 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-28-2019 04:10 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Fewer parents willing to pay for football because at many schools there is a fee to play and an expectation you'll do concession stand duty or some other time suck.

Many more parents working jobs outside the 8am to 5pm range and working weekends and not able to participate. Fewer kids with an adult in the home who played football.

In the private schools where cost is less of a barrier many parents are pushing kids away from football because they think something more "sophisticated" will help their kid get in the desired school. The health risk isn't as important as being in a proper status attached sport. I didn't know ANY school in Arkansas had lacrosse until I saw some people I know posting photos on Twitter while waiting on their kid at practice.

In Arkansas wrestling has become a thing with a local multi-millionaire paying start up costs for enough high schools that it is now a sanctioned sport and Arkansas-LR has added it as a varsity sport. Meanwhile his son is battling for the #2 QB spot at AState

Lacrosse is pretty dangerous. And a number of colleges won't touch wrestling because of the liability issues.

Exactly. Safety isn’t winning people over. It’s status perception of sports.


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(08-29-2019 07:04 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-28-2019 04:10 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Fewer parents willing to pay for football because at many schools there is a fee to play and an expectation you'll do concession stand duty or some other time suck.

Many more parents working jobs outside the 8am to 5pm range and working weekends and not able to participate. Fewer kids with an adult in the home who played football.

In the private schools where cost is less of a barrier many parents are pushing kids away from football because they think something more "sophisticated" will help their kid get in the desired school. The health risk isn't as important as being in a proper status attached sport. I didn't know ANY school in Arkansas had lacrosse until I saw some people I know posting photos on Twitter while waiting on their kid at practice.

In Arkansas wrestling has become a thing with a local multi-millionaire paying start up costs for enough high schools that it is now a sanctioned sport and Arkansas-LR has added it as a varsity sport. Meanwhile his son is battling for the #2 QB spot at AState

Lacrosse is pretty dangerous. And a number of colleges won't touch wrestling because of the liability issues.

Yeah, some areas read the tea leaves early on with wrestling, swimming, and track programs that gobble up scholarship and facility costs and don't turn a dime. And that's how those programs were cut at some of these places.

Of the bunch, I think wrestling has a (small) chance at a comeback, since the sport is compatible with MMA, which is becoming more popular. Involvement-wise and demand, but not necessarily a fan sport still.

(08-29-2019 07:49 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I also believe “The Browning of American” has some to do with it. As the immigrant populations increase, interest in the sports they follow will increase.

I think this is something people are missing. My son's HS is 40% Hispanic. We had 90 kids go out for soccer. Only 60 were kept. Our FB program had 48 kids go out, no cuts.

We are not the only school in the area who are seeing this occur.