To be fair, playing Wyoming or any of the old WAC crew is kind of in the old Big 8's bag. It's not a surprise seeing Missouri scheduling that game. Then again, so were games with Big Ten schools, and those, along with old Big 8 running mates, should be automatics.

It's in that regard I hate realignment. That last big round practically killed way too many good rivalries, or relegated them to occasional fare. Meanwhile, what you traded up for, you concoct the importance of a game with Arkansas that has no history, and, what a surprise, nobody's buying in!

I agree, Missouri should have the easiest time building a schedule that actually draws interest.

Why was Arkansas left out of the Big 8?

(09-03-2019 07:02 AM)XLance Wrote:  Why was Arkansas left out of the Big 8?

???

Arkansas was in the SWC from 1915 until they joined the SEC in 1991. They were already in the SEC before the Big 8 made the deal in 1994 to add four SWC schools from Texas.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=B-...%2C6649678

(Bonus at that link: Article, below the first one, about BYU's hope to get itself into the Big 12 when it was formed.)

(09-02-2019 01:17 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Mizzou should be playing Kansas and Illinois every year. On campus. This gives the season ticket buyers 4 SEC games, 1 OOC rival, and 2 buy games each year.

Building Mizzou’s schedule should be one of the easiest tasks in the country. It’s very straightforward who makes sense to play.

Mizzou needs a new AD.

It's not Mizzou who doesn't want those games....

(09-03-2019 07:02 AM)XLance Wrote:  Why was Arkansas left out of the Big 8?

When Oklahoma and Oklahoma A&M left the SWC in 1920 for the Missouri Valley, Arkansas stayed in the SWC. (FWIW, when the Missouri Valley split, Oklahoma became part of the original Big 6, while Oklahoma State was not allowed to join until 1958, when they became the Big 8)

Arkansas remained in the SWC until 1992. There were rumors, or maybe dreams, of adding Arkansas to the Big 8. Rumor and legend is that Nebraska vetoed an Arkansas move to the Big 8, but I can't verify that, so I'll leave it as rumor and legend. Fayetteville is closer to 4 Big 8 schools than it is to the closest SWC school, and Kansas State is just a few miles farther from Arkansas than SMU is. Plus, in those days, Fayetteville was smaller and harder to reach than it is now. There was no interstate highway and only a small airport.

However, the fan base of Arkansas is statewide, and just as they gravitate to the SEC now, they gravitated to Texas and the SWC then. They built rivalries and history in the SWC, and didn't leave until they saw the writing on the wall and an SEC offer they couldn't refuse.

It would have been good to have Arkansas in the Big 8. It wasn't meant to be.

(09-03-2019 10:07 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-03-2019 07:02 AM)XLance Wrote:  Why was Arkansas left out of the Big 8?

???

Arkansas was in the SWC from 1915 until they joined the SEC in 1991. They were already in the SEC before the Big 8 made the deal in 1994 to add four SWC schools from Texas.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=B-...%2C6649678

(Bonus at that link: Article, below the first one, about BYU's hope to get itself into the Big 12 when it was formed.)

Frank Broyles tried for years back in the 1970's and early 1980's to get Arkansas into the Big8. The Big8 leadership ignorantly wanted to stay at 8 teams. Broyles once said it appeared the only way Arkansas would get into the Big8 is if Kansas State dropped out.

This was before Kansas State hired Bill Snyder. They had a horrible football program at that time and there was talk that they might either pull out or be forced to leave the Big8.

(09-05-2019 11:33 AM)texoma Wrote:  Frank Broyles tried for years back in the 1970's and early 1980's to get Arkansas into the Big8. The Big8 leadership ignorantly wanted to stay at 8 teams.

It wasn't "ignorant". The NCAA then controlled TV rights. The Big 8 didn't have its own TV deal, thus there was no money to be made at that time by adding more members to the Big 8.

The start of conferences making their own TV deals, i.e., starting when Notre Dame signed its first NBC deal in 1990, is what motivated schools to switch conferences, and motivated conferences to bring in new members. More than 50 FBS schools have joined a new conference since 1990. Before then, there was rarely any good reason for major conferences to want new members.

(09-05-2019 12:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-05-2019 11:33 AM)texoma Wrote:  Frank Broyles tried for years back in the 1970's and early 1980's to get Arkansas into the Big8. The Big8 leadership ignorantly wanted to stay at 8 teams.

It wasn't "ignorant". The NCAA then controlled TV rights. The Big 8 didn't have its own TV deal, thus there was no money to be made at that time by adding more members to the Big 8.

The start of conferences making their own TV deals, i.e., starting when Notre Dame signed its first NBC deal in 1990, is what motivated schools to switch conferences, and motivated conferences to bring in new members. More than 50 FBS schools have joined a new conference since 1990. Before then, there was rarely any good reason for major conferences to want new members.

My post was trying to answer the question, why Arkansas was never in the Big8. My bad for a poor choice of words. I should have said they were short sighted. Again... Broyles tried very hard to get Arkansas into the Big8, but the Big8 said no, for whatever reasons you choose....OK.

The point being, adding Arkansas would have been an asset for the Big8. Great all around athletic programs with great fan base and a perfect geographic fit. Arkansas fans would have helped the struggling attendance at several Big8 schools. Also, having 9 teams would have balanced the conference scheduling.

(09-05-2019 02:01 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(09-05-2019 12:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-05-2019 11:33 AM)texoma Wrote:  Frank Broyles tried for years back in the 1970's and early 1980's to get Arkansas into the Big8. The Big8 leadership ignorantly wanted to stay at 8 teams.

It wasn't "ignorant". The NCAA then controlled TV rights. The Big 8 didn't have its own TV deal, thus there was no money to be made at that time by adding more members to the Big 8.

The start of conferences making their own TV deals, i.e., starting when Notre Dame signed its first NBC deal in 1990, is what motivated schools to switch conferences, and motivated conferences to bring in new members. More than 50 FBS schools have joined a new conference since 1990. Before then, there was rarely any good reason for major conferences to want new members.

My post was trying to answer the question, why Arkansas was never in the Big8. My bad for a poor choice of words. I should have said they were short sighted. Again... Broyles tried very hard to get Arkansas into the Big8, but the Big8 said no, for whatever reasons you choose....OK.

The point being, adding Arkansas would have been an asset for the Big8. Great all around athletic programs with great fan base and a perfect geographic fit. Arkansas fans would have helped the struggling attendance at several Big8 schools. Also, having 9 teams would have balanced the conference scheduling.

Sure, if Arkansas had approached the Big 8 after conferences started to make their own money off of TV.

Can't really second-guess decisions like that from the 1970s or 1980s when TV money was no consideration at all for a conference. I don't think you can expect anyone living in a day when a conference got no TV money to foresee each power conference getting more than $250 million/year in TV money as they do today.

For that matter, even ticket sales weren't much back then. Good seats for Oklahoma-Nebraska games went for less than $10 each in the 1970s. Per-game ticket revenue is more than 20 times as much today, at programs that require a mandatory donation on top of the season ticket price.

(09-05-2019 02:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-05-2019 02:01 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(09-05-2019 12:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-05-2019 11:33 AM)texoma Wrote:  Frank Broyles tried for years back in the 1970's and early 1980's to get Arkansas into the Big8. The Big8 leadership ignorantly wanted to stay at 8 teams.

It wasn't "ignorant". The NCAA then controlled TV rights. The Big 8 didn't have its own TV deal, thus there was no money to be made at that time by adding more members to the Big 8.

The start of conferences making their own TV deals, i.e., starting when Notre Dame signed its first NBC deal in 1990, is what motivated schools to switch conferences, and motivated conferences to bring in new members. More than 50 FBS schools have joined a new conference since 1990. Before then, there was rarely any good reason for major conferences to want new members.

My post was trying to answer the question, why Arkansas was never in the Big8. My bad for a poor choice of words. I should have said they were short sighted. Again... Broyles tried very hard to get Arkansas into the Big8, but the Big8 said no, for whatever reasons you choose....OK.

The point being, adding Arkansas would have been an asset for the Big8. Great all around athletic programs with great fan base and a perfect geographic fit. Arkansas fans would have helped the struggling attendance at several Big8 schools. Also, having 9 teams would have balanced the conference scheduling.

Sure, if Arkansas had approached the Big 8 after conferences started to make their own money off of TV.

Can't really second-guess decisions like that from the 1970s or 1980s when TV money was no consideration at all for a conference. I don't think you can expect anyone living in a day when a conference got no TV money to foresee each power conference getting more than $250 million/year in TV money as they do today.

For that matter, even ticket sales weren't much back then. Good seats for Oklahoma-Nebraska games went for less than $10 each in the 1970s. Per-game ticket revenue is more than 20 times as much today, at programs that require a mandatory donation on top of the season ticket price.

For the reasons I have already stated, it is my opinion Arkansas would have been a great addition the Big8 in the 1970's, based on the facts at that point in time and without knowing what the future holds. No second guessing.

(09-05-2019 02:01 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(09-05-2019 12:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-05-2019 11:33 AM)texoma Wrote:  Frank Broyles tried for years back in the 1970's and early 1980's to get Arkansas into the Big8. The Big8 leadership ignorantly wanted to stay at 8 teams.

It wasn't "ignorant". The NCAA then controlled TV rights. The Big 8 didn't have its own TV deal, thus there was no money to be made at that time by adding more members to the Big 8.

The start of conferences making their own TV deals, i.e., starting when Notre Dame signed its first NBC deal in 1990, is what motivated schools to switch conferences, and motivated conferences to bring in new members. More than 50 FBS schools have joined a new conference since 1990. Before then, there was rarely any good reason for major conferences to want new members.

My post was trying to answer the question, why Arkansas was never in the Big8. My bad for a poor choice of words. I should have said they were short sighted. Again... Broyles tried very hard to get Arkansas into the Big8, but the Big8 said no, for whatever reasons you choose....OK.

The point being, adding Arkansas would have been an asset for the Big8. Great all around athletic programs with great fan base and a perfect geographic fit. Arkansas fans would have helped the struggling attendance at several Big8 schools. Also, having 9 teams would have balanced the conference scheduling.

I would think that any supposed advantage gained by having an equal number of home and away conference games would have been more than outweighted by the disadvantage of having an odd number of teams. Not all the teams would be able to play in-conference at the same time, requiring a bye or OOC game every week of "conference" play.

Remember this about Arkansas, while the campus is in Northwest Arkansas the decisions are made in Little Rock. Arkansas with the train system went to Dallas, not to Kansas City. While the Big 8 schools were closer, the economic base of Arkansas was based off Texas. Thus why they were in the Southwest Conference. arkstatefan can explain it in a much better way than I can.

(09-05-2019 05:08 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(09-05-2019 02:01 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(09-05-2019 12:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-05-2019 11:33 AM)texoma Wrote:  Frank Broyles tried for years back in the 1970's and early 1980's to get Arkansas into the Big8. The Big8 leadership ignorantly wanted to stay at 8 teams.

It wasn't "ignorant". The NCAA then controlled TV rights. The Big 8 didn't have its own TV deal, thus there was no money to be made at that time by adding more members to the Big 8.

The start of conferences making their own TV deals, i.e., starting when Notre Dame signed its first NBC deal in 1990, is what motivated schools to switch conferences, and motivated conferences to bring in new members. More than 50 FBS schools have joined a new conference since 1990. Before then, there was rarely any good reason for major conferences to want new members.

My post was trying to answer the question, why Arkansas was never in the Big8. My bad for a poor choice of words. I should have said they were short sighted. Again... Broyles tried very hard to get Arkansas into the Big8, but the Big8 said no, for whatever reasons you choose....OK.

The point being, adding Arkansas would have been an asset for the Big8. Great all around athletic programs with great fan base and a perfect geographic fit. Arkansas fans would have helped the struggling attendance at several Big8 schools. Also, having 9 teams would have balanced the conference scheduling.

I would think that any supposed advantage gained by having an equal number of home and away conference games would have been more than outweighted by the disadvantage of having an odd number of teams. Not all the teams would be able to play in-conference at the same time, requiring a bye or OOC game every week of "conference" play.

I respectfully disagree with that logic. In fact I would argue that having an odd number of teams is not a disadvantage, but likely an advantage.

With the extended season most teams welcome open dates. Some have even advocated two open dates. The Big10 and SWC operated for years with an odd number of teams.

The SEC has an odd number of teams (7) in each division and they play two crossover games, which is an odd number of teams playing 8 games, i.e., the same as a nine team conference. They not only like having open dates, but they like being able to schedule non-conference games during the season, often cupcakes which gives them a break from the difficult conference games.

Another example is the OU-Texas game. It was played as a non-conference game in mid-season for years.

So IMO having open dates and playing non-conference games during the season is not a disadvantage, but very possibly and advantage.

(09-06-2019 01:43 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(09-05-2019 05:08 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(09-05-2019 02:01 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(09-05-2019 12:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-05-2019 11:33 AM)texoma Wrote:  Frank Broyles tried for years back in the 1970's and early 1980's to get Arkansas into the Big8. The Big8 leadership ignorantly wanted to stay at 8 teams.

It wasn't "ignorant". The NCAA then controlled TV rights. The Big 8 didn't have its own TV deal, thus there was no money to be made at that time by adding more members to the Big 8.

The start of conferences making their own TV deals, i.e., starting when Notre Dame signed its first NBC deal in 1990, is what motivated schools to switch conferences, and motivated conferences to bring in new members. More than 50 FBS schools have joined a new conference since 1990. Before then, there was rarely any good reason for major conferences to want new members.

My post was trying to answer the question, why Arkansas was never in the Big8. My bad for a poor choice of words. I should have said they were short sighted. Again... Broyles tried very hard to get Arkansas into the Big8, but the Big8 said no, for whatever reasons you choose....OK.

The point being, adding Arkansas would have been an asset for the Big8. Great all around athletic programs with great fan base and a perfect geographic fit. Arkansas fans would have helped the struggling attendance at several Big8 schools. Also, having 9 teams would have balanced the conference scheduling.

I would think that any supposed advantage gained by having an equal number of home and away conference games would have been more than outweighted by the disadvantage of having an odd number of teams. Not all the teams would be able to play in-conference at the same time, requiring a bye or OOC game every week of "conference" play.

I respectfully disagree with that logic. In fact I would argue that having an odd number of teams is not a disadvantage, but likely an advantage.

With the extended season most teams welcome open dates. Some have even advocated two open dates. The Big10 and SWC operated for years with an odd number of teams.

The SEC has an odd number of teams (7) in each division and they play two crossover games, which is an odd number of teams playing 8 games, i.e., the same as a nine team conference. They not only like having open dates, but they like being able to schedule non-conference games during the season, often cupcakes which gives them a break from the difficult conference games.

Another example is the OU-Texas game. It was played as a non-conference game in mid-season for years.

So IMO having open dates and playing non-conference games during the season is not a disadvantage, but very possibly and advantage.

You may have a point, though an odd number of teams can be problematic in other sports too, which is why conferences tend to aim for even numbers if possible. I will say, however, that there's no advantage or disadvantage to having an even number of conference games per team vs. an odd number.

(09-06-2019 02:20 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(09-06-2019 01:43 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(09-05-2019 05:08 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(09-05-2019 02:01 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(09-05-2019 12:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:  It wasn't "ignorant". The NCAA then controlled TV rights. The Big 8 didn't have its own TV deal, thus there was no money to be made at that time by adding more members to the Big 8.

The start of conferences making their own TV deals, i.e., starting when Notre Dame signed its first NBC deal in 1990, is what motivated schools to switch conferences, and motivated conferences to bring in new members. More than 50 FBS schools have joined a new conference since 1990. Before then, there was rarely any good reason for major conferences to want new members.

My post was trying to answer the question, why Arkansas was never in the Big8. My bad for a poor choice of words. I should have said they were short sighted. Again... Broyles tried very hard to get Arkansas into the Big8, but the Big8 said no, for whatever reasons you choose....OK.

The point being, adding Arkansas would have been an asset for the Big8. Great all around athletic programs with great fan base and a perfect geographic fit. Arkansas fans would have helped the struggling attendance at several Big8 schools. Also, having 9 teams would have balanced the conference scheduling.

I would think that any supposed advantage gained by having an equal number of home and away conference games would have been more than outweighted by the disadvantage of having an odd number of teams. Not all the teams would be able to play in-conference at the same time, requiring a bye or OOC game every week of "conference" play.

I respectfully disagree with that logic. In fact I would argue that having an odd number of teams is not a disadvantage, but likely an advantage.

With the extended season most teams welcome open dates. Some have even advocated two open dates. The Big10 and SWC operated for years with an odd number of teams.

The SEC has an odd number of teams (7) in each division and they play two crossover games, which is an odd number of teams playing 8 games, i.e., the same as a nine team conference. They not only like having open dates, but they like being able to schedule non-conference games during the season, often cupcakes which gives them a break from the difficult conference games.

Another example is the OU-Texas game. It was played as a non-conference game in mid-season for years.

So IMO having open dates and playing non-conference games during the season is not a disadvantage, but very possibly and advantage.

You may have a point, though an odd number of teams can be problematic in other sports too, which is why conferences tend to aim for even numbers if possible. I will say, however, that there's no advantage or disadvantage to having an even number of conference games per team vs. an odd number.

I think conferences have aimed for even numbers so they could split into equal divisions and have a CCG.

When the SWC and MoValley/Big 8 formed train was the mode of transport and Fayetteville to SWC cities was generally easier than Fayetteville to MoValley future Big 8 cities.

If Coach Broyles wanted in the Big 8 he kept it from the Arkansas press. What he did try in the wake of Board of Regents vs. NCAA was to build a made for TV conference. He put together a meeting of Arkansas, LSU, Texas, Texas A&M, OU, OKST, Mizzou, and Nebraska trying to convince everyone to bolt the SWC/B8/SEC to form a new league that would more TV friendly.

It of course went no where but that meeting and LSU's impressions, were a major reason why the SEC called Arkansas when the league began toying with the idea of going to 16.

The politics and demographics of Arkansas have changed greatly over the years. Until the late 60's or early 70's the economy was more tied to what was going on in Memphis and New Orleans than in Texas. That shifted to Dallas and at the same time the eastern part of Arkansas (except for Craighead County where AState is) and the southern part of the state began bleeding population while Central Arkansas exploded and then NWA Arkansas exploded.

Stadium in Fayetteville didn't top 30,000 seats until 1965 didn't top 38,000 until 1969 and didn't exceed 43,000 until 1985 BECAUSE THERE WAS NO NEED FOR THAT MANY SEATS IN FAYETTEVILLE. Little Rock went to 53,555 in 1967 because the seats were needed.

It was a light populated part of the state, the roads to Fayetteville were just damned deadly especially at night.
Fayetteville got Interstate access January 1999. After the 2000 season the stadium was expanded to 72,000.

The population growth, improved highway access and because of the economic growth, expansion of hotel capacity made it viable to demand fans come to Fayetteville to see the best games. Now with Little Rock getting non-conference or low interest games they struggle to sellout in Little Rock. The big streams of cars flowing up out of the piney woods of south Arkansas or the delta of east Arkansas just don't happen any more because there aren't that many people and even fewer who can afford P5 prices.

UA was tied to Texas when Arkansas tied economically to the Southeast and now UA is tied to the Southeast as the state is tied economically to Texas.

That said NWA does align somewhat with Kansas City and Hog fans in NWA have to be happy about the KC announcement because they are Chiefs and Royals fans and KC is closer than Columbia. Outside of NWA most people are Cowboys and Cardinals fans with some Rangers fans in the south.

(08-29-2019 11:36 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  But Missouri and Arkansas is a weird one. They share a border, but you can't make the two sides care because of it.

The Missouri/Kansas border - KC is right there, right in-between MU and KU. Lots of people to care.

The Missouri/Illinois border - STL is right there, nearly halfway between MU and UI. Lots of people to care.

The Missouri/Arkansas border is just what it is. Mostly the Ozarks. Jonesboro, Springfield and Fayetteville are all getting bigger, but those are still not big cities by any means.

If MU was in Missouri State's location, this would be a bigger rivalry, no doubt.

Arkansas and Oklahoma State haven't played in a long time - they are scheduled for some games in the 2020s. That one seems like it could have potential. Tulsa's nearly exactly halfway between the two.

Arkansas and Arkansas State would be good to see too - we'll see if that ever happens.

(09-09-2019 07:50 PM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-29-2019 11:36 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  But Missouri and Arkansas is a weird one. They share a border, but you can't make the two sides care because of it.

The Missouri/Kansas border - KC is right there, right in-between MU and KU. Lots of people to care.

The Missouri/Illinois border - STL is right there, nearly halfway between MU and UI. Lots of people to care.

The Missouri/Arkansas border is just what it is. Mostly the Ozarks. Jonesboro, Springfield and Fayetteville are all getting bigger, but those are still not big cities by any means.

If MU was in Missouri State's location, this would be a bigger rivalry, no doubt.

Arkansas and Oklahoma State haven't played in a long time - they are scheduled for some games in the 2020s. That one seems like it could have potential. Tulsa's nearly exactly halfway between the two.

Arkansas and Arkansas State would be good to see too - we'll see if that ever happens.

Arkansas has played Tulsa 73 times (just behind Texas and TAMU and tied with SMU) and OKSt 46 times.

Contrast with Mizzou, when they play this year it will break the tie with Louisiana-Monroe and North Texas for number of meetings with Arkansas (10).

I agree that if Mizzou were in Springfield it probably would already be a big rivalry. Arkansas State lobbied Missouri State hard to upgrade to FBS and join the Sun Belt but their administration isn't interested in FBS. The Bears are just under 150 miles from Fayetteville (there are shorter routes but much slower) and about 250 from Jonesboro. Where my grandparents and in-laws lived they had antennas on rotators. If you wanted ABC, you pointed it to Jonesboro and if you wanted CBS or NBC you pointed it to Springfield.

It would be a real nasty rivalry with the Hogs if Mizzou was in Springfield. Hog fans are real nasty with us in baseball that's a big rivalry because of NCAA tournament games and location.

(09-10-2019 07:55 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  It would be a real nasty rivalry with the Hogs if Mizzou was in Springfield. Hog fans are real nasty with us in baseball that's a big rivalry because of NCAA tournament games and location.

Bears are usually the only mid-week competition they play after conference season starts with a serious chance of beating them, though opening up to playing in-state system schools this year did produce a loss to UA-Little Rock. Usually the non-conference slate mid-week is a bundle of Southland and SWAC schools plus ORU and Missouri State.