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Rice93 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
(09-06-2019 10:36 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:23 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:11 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 09:59 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 08:33 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Just take a look at the wide range of reasons given. They range from 'police brutality' to 'criminal justice discrimination' to 'LGBTQ' to 'Trump sucks' along with probably at least ten or twelve other individualized reasons.

The kneel has seemingly devolved into a protest for anything and everything that the individualized protester seemingly wants it to be.

Most 'kneel downs' have zero accompanying statement of why, so one could use this as such evidence. Not to mention as evidence of the efficacy of the 'statement' of the kneel.

The Texans had an uncommented 'kneel' only after the owner made a comment about 'the inmates running the prison' -- please do tell us how that adds to any cogent, directed point.

Considering the Saints' 'kneel down' had zero comment, Drew Brees tweeted "As a way to show respect to all, our #Saints team will kneel in solidarity prior to the national anthem & stand together during the anthem." That...... doesnt tell me very much at all.

Perhaps they 'dont know the reason why' may not be accurate. Perhaps the statement of 'because any number of varied and random reasons, some stated, and many not, and confusing as all sin to the outside world' is a better descriptor. Does that do it better for you?

Don't have time to go through all this at work but to say that players are protesting without having a clue why they are doing so paints them as relative dullards. When I hear Kaepernick, Stills, Martellus Bennett, etc. speak on the topic it is clear that they are thoughtful and informed.

When Kaepernick started this whole thing, he said it was because he would not honor the flag of an oppressive country. HE said it. He SAID it.

Here are his exact words:

“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,” he told NFL Media in an interview published on Saturday.

What I hear most often is "police brutality".

What I hear most often is team solidarity. As in, I will support this, whatever it is, because i don't want my teammates mad at me.

Must still be 1952.

Since you have listened when Kaepernick, Stills and Bennett spoke on the subject, and they were thoughtful and informed, tell us what they are protesting.

And tell us if you think the USA is an oppressive country.

Again... busy so will respond more later but of course the USA has a long history of injustice when it comes to black people. Does injustice = oppression?

Tell me if you think black people are treated equally in the US in 2019.

Pretty much.

I know of no restaurant that excludes black people. I know of no apartment complex or house seller that excludes black people. I know of no college that excludes black people. I know of no restroom they are not allowed to use. I do know of Affirmative Action. This is all 2019. In 1952, there was a lot of oppression. heck, I remember when black people really were oppressed. I remember lunch counter sit ins at Woolworth's. do you remember Woolworth"s? Or lunch counters?

So tell me how those three people you named are oppressed. Are they not allowed to make a great living? better than yours, I warrant. Where are they not allowed to go that you are allowed?

Glad to hear you are busy. Busy is good, usually.

I will be leaving here soon. But we can piece together this discussion over time. I am eager to hear how you think the USA is an oppressive country. I think it was in 1952 - not so much now. But "now" is what Kaep is protesting. And most of the rest of them have no idea why they kneeling or what they are protesting, just some idea of team solidarity. What is Drew Brees protesting?

I think Tanq pointed out that Brees explained that he participated in an act of solidarity rather than an act of protest.
09-06-2019 10:50 AM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #62
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
(09-06-2019 10:50 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:36 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:23 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:11 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 09:59 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Don't have time to go through all this at work but to say that players are protesting without having a clue why they are doing so paints them as relative dullards. When I hear Kaepernick, Stills, Martellus Bennett, etc. speak on the topic it is clear that they are thoughtful and informed.

When Kaepernick started this whole thing, he said it was because he would not honor the flag of an oppressive country. HE said it. He SAID it.

Here are his exact words:

“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,” he told NFL Media in an interview published on Saturday.

What I hear most often is "police brutality".

What I hear most often is team solidarity. As in, I will support this, whatever it is, because i don't want my teammates mad at me.

Must still be 1952.

Since you have listened when Kaepernick, Stills and Bennett spoke on the subject, and they were thoughtful and informed, tell us what they are protesting.

And tell us if you think the USA is an oppressive country.

Again... busy so will respond more later but of course the USA has a long history of injustice when it comes to black people. Does injustice = oppression?

Tell me if you think black people are treated equally in the US in 2019.

Pretty much.

I know of no restaurant that excludes black people. I know of no apartment complex or house seller that excludes black people. I know of no college that excludes black people. I know of no restroom they are not allowed to use. I do know of Affirmative Action. This is all 2019. In 1952, there was a lot of oppression. heck, I remember when black people really were oppressed. I remember lunch counter sit ins at Woolworth's. do you remember Woolworth"s? Or lunch counters?

So tell me how those three people you named are oppressed. Are they not allowed to make a great living? better than yours, I warrant. Where are they not allowed to go that you are allowed?

Glad to hear you are busy. Busy is good, usually.

I will be leaving here soon. But we can piece together this discussion over time. I am eager to hear how you think the USA is an oppressive country. I think it was in 1952 - not so much now. But "now" is what Kaep is protesting. And most of the rest of them have no idea why they kneeling or what they are protesting, just some idea of team solidarity. What is Drew Brees protesting?

I think Tanq pointed out that Brees explained that he participated in an act of solidarity rather than an act of protest.

To the bold, you have impeccable timing. It's not renting an apartment, but a venue:

"Mississippi venue apparently denied interracial couple's wedding over 'Christian belief,' video shows"

https://abcnews.go.com/US/mississippi-ve...d=65356377
09-06-2019 11:19 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #63
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
(09-06-2019 10:50 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:36 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:23 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:11 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 09:59 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Don't have time to go through all this at work but to say that players are protesting without having a clue why they are doing so paints them as relative dullards. When I hear Kaepernick, Stills, Martellus Bennett, etc. speak on the topic it is clear that they are thoughtful and informed.

When Kaepernick started this whole thing, he said it was because he would not honor the flag of an oppressive country. HE said it. He SAID it.

Here are his exact words:

“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,” he told NFL Media in an interview published on Saturday.

What I hear most often is "police brutality".

What I hear most often is team solidarity. As in, I will support this, whatever it is, because i don't want my teammates mad at me.

Must still be 1952.

Since you have listened when Kaepernick, Stills and Bennett spoke on the subject, and they were thoughtful and informed, tell us what they are protesting.

And tell us if you think the USA is an oppressive country.

Again... busy so will respond more later but of course the USA has a long history of injustice when it comes to black people. Does injustice = oppression?

Tell me if you think black people are treated equally in the US in 2019.

Pretty much.

I know of no restaurant that excludes black people. I know of no apartment complex or house seller that excludes black people. I know of no college that excludes black people. I know of no restroom they are not allowed to use. I do know of Affirmative Action. This is all 2019. In 1952, there was a lot of oppression. heck, I remember when black people really were oppressed. I remember lunch counter sit ins at Woolworth's. do you remember Woolworth"s? Or lunch counters?

So tell me how those three people you named are oppressed. Are they not allowed to make a great living? better than yours, I warrant. Where are they not allowed to go that you are allowed?

Glad to hear you are busy. Busy is good, usually.

I will be leaving here soon. But we can piece together this discussion over time. I am eager to hear how you think the USA is an oppressive country. I think it was in 1952 - not so much now. But "now" is what Kaep is protesting. And most of the rest of them have no idea why they kneeling or what they are protesting, just some idea of team solidarity. What is Drew Brees protesting?

I think Tanq pointed out that Brees explained that he participated in an act of solidarity rather than an act of protest.

So he is solidly with those who think they have a grievance against the US, that oppressive country, , while having no idea what the grievance is or if he agrees with it?

I don't know about you, but i stand for the national anthem. And standing can be a physical problem for me. Do you kneel in solidarity with Kaep and the others? I couldn't kneel if I wanted to, but I damn sure don't want to.
09-06-2019 11:23 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #64
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
Speaking of Brees

i hope his teammates stand solidly with him.
09-06-2019 11:37 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
(09-06-2019 10:23 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:11 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  And tell us if you think the USA is an oppressive country.
Again... busy so will respond more later but of course the USA has a long history of injustice when it comes to black people. Does injustice = oppression?
Tell me if you think black people are treated equally in the US in 2019.

Substantially so, yes.

Is it possible in a nation of over 300 million people of diverse races and nationalities to treat everybody exactly equally? No, of course not. So there are case at the margin going both ways--black (and brown) people getting treated worse than others in some respects, better than others in other respects.

Do I think that things can be done to make things better for all? Absolutely. But I believe the kinds of hyperbolic allegations being made by Kaepernick and his ilk do more harm than good.

Again, as I've said about other issues, my biggest complaint is that the conservatives/republicans haven't spoken up with ideas to address the problems. We have a huge problem with poor of all races--the welfare system is set up so that if they take steps to improve their lot, they are penalized so heavily as to discourage them from making the effort. Our current welfare system is designed along the lines of, "Keep 'em dumb, keep 'em poor, keep 'em dependent on handouts, and you'll keep 'em voting democrat." Paul Ryan's staff did a very exhaustive study that confirmed this, including the 100% "effective tax rate" from a combined taxes plus lost benefits that confronts anyone trying to move from about $15,000 a year (minimum wage) to about $55,000 a year (middle class). I have cited it in a couple of peer-reviewed articles. But did they take the next step and propose ways to fix it? No.

Jack Kemp is about the only republican who ever took this on in a major way, and he was not exactly welcomed by the leadership of the party for going there. GHWB apparently hated him, which was very unfortunate because a ticket of GHWB (president focused on foreign policy) and Kemp (VP focused on domestic policy) would have been far more effective than Bush and the lightweight Dan Quayle.

Until republicans come forward with solutions to some very real problems, they are gong to remain vulnerable to hyperbolic (and unsubstantiated) allegations by democrats. What would I do to make things better for black people (and poor people)?
- Universal health care using the Bismarck universal private care/insurance model, which works far better than either single-payer or single-provider, based upon empirical evidence.
- Replace the current welfare hodge-podge with a universal basic income, following either Milton Friedman's negative income tax or the Boortz-Linder prebate/prefund, that allows nobody to fall through the cracks and removes the "welfare trap" or "poverty trap" exposed by Ryan's study.
- Get rid of our marijuana laws, which imprison black people, and young black males in particular, very disproportionately. Pardon everyone convicted of simple possession, expunge their records, and give them extensive counseling and training to enable them to return to society as productive citizens.
- Dramatically reform education. Go to a tracking system, upgrade vocational education by light years, and allow at least some limited form of school choice (the tracking thing could actually be a vehicle to accomplish that, like in Germany).

The first party to take pragmatic steps to address these and other real problems will get my vote. Until one or the other does, however, to me it will simply be stupid party versus evil party.
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2019 02:56 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-06-2019 11:38 AM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #66
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
(09-06-2019 11:19 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:50 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:36 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:23 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:11 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  When Kaepernick started this whole thing, he said it was because he would not honor the flag of an oppressive country. HE said it. He SAID it.

Here are his exact words:

“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,” he told NFL Media in an interview published on Saturday.

What I hear most often is "police brutality".

What I hear most often is team solidarity. As in, I will support this, whatever it is, because i don't want my teammates mad at me.

Must still be 1952.

Since you have listened when Kaepernick, Stills and Bennett spoke on the subject, and they were thoughtful and informed, tell us what they are protesting.

And tell us if you think the USA is an oppressive country.

Again... busy so will respond more later but of course the USA has a long history of injustice when it comes to black people. Does injustice = oppression?

Tell me if you think black people are treated equally in the US in 2019.

Pretty much.

I know of no restaurant that excludes black people. I know of no apartment complex or house seller that excludes black people. I know of no college that excludes black people. I know of no restroom they are not allowed to use. I do know of Affirmative Action. This is all 2019. In 1952, there was a lot of oppression. heck, I remember when black people really were oppressed. I remember lunch counter sit ins at Woolworth's. do you remember Woolworth"s? Or lunch counters?

So tell me how those three people you named are oppressed. Are they not allowed to make a great living? better than yours, I warrant. Where are they not allowed to go that you are allowed?

Glad to hear you are busy. Busy is good, usually.

I will be leaving here soon. But we can piece together this discussion over time. I am eager to hear how you think the USA is an oppressive country. I think it was in 1952 - not so much now. But "now" is what Kaep is protesting. And most of the rest of them have no idea why they kneeling or what they are protesting, just some idea of team solidarity. What is Drew Brees protesting?

I think Tanq pointed out that Brees explained that he participated in an act of solidarity rather than an act of protest.

To the bold, you have impeccable timing. It's not renting an apartment, but a venue:

"Mississippi venue apparently denied interracial couple's wedding over 'Christian belief,' video shows"

https://abcnews.go.com/US/mississippi-ve...d=65356377

Glad you found that evidence of rampant, deep, and pervasive racism. So now we know of one instance. One. Call out the national guard.

Glad you found one instance of that *just* to call out OO. Go home, google it some more and come back to us with your results.

When you can show me a evidence of rampant, deep, systemic, widespread, and pervasive levels of examples like you just brought forth, that would be germane.

Not a single incident.
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2019 03:38 PM by tanqtonic.)
09-06-2019 02:52 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #67
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
(09-06-2019 11:19 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:50 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:36 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:23 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:11 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  When Kaepernick started this whole thing, he said it was because he would not honor the flag of an oppressive country. HE said it. He SAID it.

Here are his exact words:

“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,” he told NFL Media in an interview published on Saturday.

What I hear most often is "police brutality".

What I hear most often is team solidarity. As in, I will support this, whatever it is, because i don't want my teammates mad at me.

Must still be 1952.

Since you have listened when Kaepernick, Stills and Bennett spoke on the subject, and they were thoughtful and informed, tell us what they are protesting.

And tell us if you think the USA is an oppressive country.

Again... busy so will respond more later but of course the USA has a long history of injustice when it comes to black people. Does injustice = oppression?

Tell me if you think black people are treated equally in the US in 2019.

Pretty much.

I know of no restaurant that excludes black people. I know of no apartment complex or house seller that excludes black people. I know of no college that excludes black people. I know of no restroom they are not allowed to use. I do know of Affirmative Action. This is all 2019. In 1952, there was a lot of oppression. heck, I remember when black people really were oppressed. I remember lunch counter sit ins at Woolworth's. do you remember Woolworth"s? Or lunch counters?

So tell me how those three people you named are oppressed. Are they not allowed to make a great living? better than yours, I warrant. Where are they not allowed to go that you are allowed?

Glad to hear you are busy. Busy is good, usually.

I will be leaving here soon. But we can piece together this discussion over time. I am eager to hear how you think the USA is an oppressive country. I think it was in 1952 - not so much now. But "now" is what Kaep is protesting. And most of the rest of them have no idea why they kneeling or what they are protesting, just some idea of team solidarity. What is Drew Brees protesting?

I think Tanq pointed out that Brees explained that he participated in an act of solidarity rather than an act of protest.

To the bold, you have impeccable timing. It's not renting an apartment, but a venue:

"Mississippi venue apparently denied interracial couple's wedding over 'Christian belief,' video shows"

https://abcnews.go.com/US/mississippi-ve...d=65356377

So my first question is, we’re they denied because he is black, or because she is white?

Second question: Would they have been denied if they were both the same race, either both black or both white.

Third question, does this situation confirm for you that the USA is an oppressive county?

You may not know the answers to the first two, but at least answer the third. The first two, you have made some assumptions, and I would like to know the basis for them.

If this is enough to make the national news, it must be rare. This is not a racist country anymore. It says the couple has been dating three years. I bet this is the first problem they have had. Way different in 2019 than in 1952.
09-06-2019 03:07 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #68
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
(09-06-2019 03:07 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 11:19 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:50 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:36 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:23 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Again... busy so will respond more later but of course the USA has a long history of injustice when it comes to black people. Does injustice = oppression?

Tell me if you think black people are treated equally in the US in 2019.

Pretty much.

I know of no restaurant that excludes black people. I know of no apartment complex or house seller that excludes black people. I know of no college that excludes black people. I know of no restroom they are not allowed to use. I do know of Affirmative Action. This is all 2019. In 1952, there was a lot of oppression. heck, I remember when black people really were oppressed. I remember lunch counter sit ins at Woolworth's. do you remember Woolworth"s? Or lunch counters?

So tell me how those three people you named are oppressed. Are they not allowed to make a great living? better than yours, I warrant. Where are they not allowed to go that you are allowed?

Glad to hear you are busy. Busy is good, usually.

I will be leaving here soon. But we can piece together this discussion over time. I am eager to hear how you think the USA is an oppressive country. I think it was in 1952 - not so much now. But "now" is what Kaep is protesting. And most of the rest of them have no idea why they kneeling or what they are protesting, just some idea of team solidarity. What is Drew Brees protesting?

I think Tanq pointed out that Brees explained that he participated in an act of solidarity rather than an act of protest.

To the bold, you have impeccable timing. It's not renting an apartment, but a venue:

"Mississippi venue apparently denied interracial couple's wedding over 'Christian belief,' video shows"

https://abcnews.go.com/US/mississippi-ve...d=65356377

So my first question is, we’re they denied because he is black, or because she is white?

Second question: Would they have been denied if they were both the same race, either both black or both white.

Third question, does this situation confirm for you that the USA is an oppressive county?

You may not know the answers to the first two, but at least answer the third. The first two, you have made some assumptions, and I would like to know the basis for them.

If this is enough to make the national news, it must be rare. This is not a racist country anymore. It says the couple has been dating three years. I bet this is the first problem they have had. Way different in 2019 than in 1952.

I was going to type that the fact that it made national news seems to answer the third question.

The fact that the outrage is palpable on it seems to be another answer to the third question.
09-06-2019 03:37 PM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #69
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
(09-06-2019 03:07 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 11:19 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:50 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:36 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:23 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Again... busy so will respond more later but of course the USA has a long history of injustice when it comes to black people. Does injustice = oppression?

Tell me if you think black people are treated equally in the US in 2019.

Pretty much.

I know of no restaurant that excludes black people. I know of no apartment complex or house seller that excludes black people. I know of no college that excludes black people. I know of no restroom they are not allowed to use. I do know of Affirmative Action. This is all 2019. In 1952, there was a lot of oppression. heck, I remember when black people really were oppressed. I remember lunch counter sit ins at Woolworth's. do you remember Woolworth"s? Or lunch counters?

So tell me how those three people you named are oppressed. Are they not allowed to make a great living? better than yours, I warrant. Where are they not allowed to go that you are allowed?

Glad to hear you are busy. Busy is good, usually.

I will be leaving here soon. But we can piece together this discussion over time. I am eager to hear how you think the USA is an oppressive country. I think it was in 1952 - not so much now. But "now" is what Kaep is protesting. And most of the rest of them have no idea why they kneeling or what they are protesting, just some idea of team solidarity. What is Drew Brees protesting?

I think Tanq pointed out that Brees explained that he participated in an act of solidarity rather than an act of protest.

To the bold, you have impeccable timing. It's not renting an apartment, but a venue:

"Mississippi venue apparently denied interracial couple's wedding over 'Christian belief,' video shows"

https://abcnews.go.com/US/mississippi-ve...d=65356377

So my first question is, we’re they denied because he is black, or because she is white?

Second question: Would they have been denied if they were both the same race, either both black or both white.

Third question, does this situation confirm for you that the USA is an oppressive county?

You may not know the answers to the first two, but at least answer the third. The first two, you have made some assumptions, and I would like to know the basis for them.

If this is enough to make the national news, it must be rare. This is not a racist country anymore. It says the couple has been dating three years. I bet this is the first problem they have had. Way different in 2019 than in 1952.

Did you watch the video?
09-06-2019 03:40 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #70
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
(09-06-2019 03:37 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 03:07 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 11:19 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:50 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:36 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Pretty much.

I know of no restaurant that excludes black people. I know of no apartment complex or house seller that excludes black people. I know of no college that excludes black people. I know of no restroom they are not allowed to use. I do know of Affirmative Action. This is all 2019. In 1952, there was a lot of oppression. heck, I remember when black people really were oppressed. I remember lunch counter sit ins at Woolworth's. do you remember Woolworth"s? Or lunch counters?

So tell me how those three people you named are oppressed. Are they not allowed to make a great living? better than yours, I warrant. Where are they not allowed to go that you are allowed?

Glad to hear you are busy. Busy is good, usually.

I will be leaving here soon. But we can piece together this discussion over time. I am eager to hear how you think the USA is an oppressive country. I think it was in 1952 - not so much now. But "now" is what Kaep is protesting. And most of the rest of them have no idea why they kneeling or what they are protesting, just some idea of team solidarity. What is Drew Brees protesting?

I think Tanq pointed out that Brees explained that he participated in an act of solidarity rather than an act of protest.

To the bold, you have impeccable timing. It's not renting an apartment, but a venue:

"Mississippi venue apparently denied interracial couple's wedding over 'Christian belief,' video shows"

https://abcnews.go.com/US/mississippi-ve...d=65356377

So my first question is, we’re they denied because he is black, or because she is white?

Second question: Would they have been denied if they were both the same race, either both black or both white.

Third question, does this situation confirm for you that the USA is an oppressive county?

You may not know the answers to the first two, but at least answer the third. The first two, you have made some assumptions, and I would like to know the basis for them.

If this is enough to make the national news, it must be rare. This is not a racist country anymore. It says the couple has been dating three years. I bet this is the first problem they have had. Way different in 2019 than in 1952.

I was going to type that the fact that it made national news seems to answer the third question.

The fact that the outrage is palpable on it seems to be another answer to the third question.

Thanks but I still would like Lad’s answers.

The assumption seems to be that the venue is anti black, but we don’t know if their problem is with blacks or interracial marriages.

Lots of people of all races would prefer for their children to marry within their race.

Joke: woman comes home and announces to her family that she is getting married, but they won’t like it because he is of a different faith. They are very upset and try to dissuade her. Finally somebody thinks to ask, what faith is he? The woman says he is Jewish, and of course we are Catholic. The parents say, that’s no problem, we thought you meant he was Republican.
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2019 03:48 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
09-06-2019 03:43 PM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #71
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
(09-06-2019 02:52 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 11:19 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:50 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:36 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:23 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Again... busy so will respond more later but of course the USA has a long history of injustice when it comes to black people. Does injustice = oppression?

Tell me if you think black people are treated equally in the US in 2019.

Pretty much.

I know of no restaurant that excludes black people. I know of no apartment complex or house seller that excludes black people. I know of no college that excludes black people. I know of no restroom they are not allowed to use. I do know of Affirmative Action. This is all 2019. In 1952, there was a lot of oppression. heck, I remember when black people really were oppressed. I remember lunch counter sit ins at Woolworth's. do you remember Woolworth"s? Or lunch counters?

So tell me how those three people you named are oppressed. Are they not allowed to make a great living? better than yours, I warrant. Where are they not allowed to go that you are allowed?

Glad to hear you are busy. Busy is good, usually.

I will be leaving here soon. But we can piece together this discussion over time. I am eager to hear how you think the USA is an oppressive country. I think it was in 1952 - not so much now. But "now" is what Kaep is protesting. And most of the rest of them have no idea why they kneeling or what they are protesting, just some idea of team solidarity. What is Drew Brees protesting?

I think Tanq pointed out that Brees explained that he participated in an act of solidarity rather than an act of protest.

To the bold, you have impeccable timing. It's not renting an apartment, but a venue:

"Mississippi venue apparently denied interracial couple's wedding over 'Christian belief,' video shows"

https://abcnews.go.com/US/mississippi-ve...d=65356377

Glad you found that evidence of rampant, deep, and pervasive racism. So now we know of one instance. One. Call out the national guard.

Glad you found one instance of that *just* to call out OO. Go home, google it some more and come back to us with your results.

When you can show me a evidence of rampant, deep, systemic, widespread, and pervasive levels of examples like you just brought forth, that would be germane.

Not a single incident.

OO was the one saying he knew of not a single thing/instance.

I provided a direct contradiction to his insistence that these things don't happen...
09-06-2019 03:43 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #72
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
Quote:OO was the one saying he knew of not a single thing/instance.

I provided a direct contradiction to his insistence that these things don't happen...

He didnt say that these things dont happen. He said he didnt know of any. As in making the point that these things are so fing exceedingly rare that he doesnt know of any.

As in the fact that these things are so far out of the fing norm that it is national news. But I guess that 'nuance' (going back to a favorite) is lost there.

But getting back to your comment, so your saying 'just one happened' is you not making a statement on the justice, just pointing out OO was wrong as to what you believed he said. Very productive. Good for you. Happy that OO was wrong on a point (or one that you made, not him)?

As to the actual important point of the thread, does this situation confirm for you that the USA is a deeply oppressive county?
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2019 03:54 PM by tanqtonic.)
09-06-2019 03:48 PM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #73
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
(09-06-2019 03:48 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  So saying 'just one happened' is you not making a statement on the justice, just pointing out OO was wrong. Very productive. Good for you. Happy that OO was wrong on a point?

Well maybe OO should learn to not speak in absolutes if he doesn’t want to have his inaccuracies pointed out. It is awfully nice of you to keep going to bat for him.

And I’m sure I could find more evidence of issues if I dug into fair housing complaints, but I don’t have the time for that. But if it is true that we truly have o racial issues in this country, especially in the housing market, I would imagine I would have a really hard time finding any complaints.
09-06-2019 03:51 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #74
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
(09-06-2019 03:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 03:48 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  So saying 'just one happened' is you not making a statement on the justice, just pointing out OO was wrong. Very productive. Good for you. Happy that OO was wrong on a point?

Well maybe OO should learn to not speak in absolutes if he doesn’t want to have his inaccuracies pointed out. It is awfully nice of you to keep going to bat for him.

And I’m sure I could find more evidence of issues if I dug into fair housing complaints, but I don’t have the time for that. But if it is true that we truly have o racial issues in this country, especially in the housing market, I would imagine I would have a really hard time finding any complaints.

By the way, he wasnt inaccurate. Had you actually read his statement, he said '[he] didnt know about any'. He did not say 'they dont happen'. Funny that. Perhaps maybe you shouldnt translate to absolutes.
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2019 03:58 PM by tanqtonic.)
09-06-2019 03:56 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #75
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
(09-06-2019 03:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 03:48 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  So saying 'just one happened' is you not making a statement on the justice, just pointing out OO was wrong. Very productive. Good for you. Happy that OO was wrong on a point?

Well maybe OO should learn to not speak in absolutes if he doesn’t want to have his inaccuracies pointed out. It is awfully nice of you to keep going to bat for him.

And I’m sure I could find more evidence of issues if I dug into fair housing complaints, but I don’t have the time for that. But if it is true that we truly have o racial issues in this country, especially in the housing market, I would imagine I would have a really hard time finding any complaints.

Again, does this incident, so seemingly out of the norm that it makes the national news, confirm for you that the USA is a oppressive county?

Instead of your fixation on trying to 'prove' OO wrong, perhaps you might want to take a crack at the pertinent issue.
09-06-2019 03:58 PM
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Post: #76
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
(09-06-2019 03:43 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 02:52 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 11:19 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:50 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:36 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Pretty much.

I know of no restaurant that excludes black people. I know of no apartment complex or house seller that excludes black people. I know of no college that excludes black people. I know of no restroom they are not allowed to use. I do know of Affirmative Action. This is all 2019. In 1952, there was a lot of oppression. heck, I remember when black people really were oppressed. I remember lunch counter sit ins at Woolworth's. do you remember Woolworth"s? Or lunch counters?

So tell me how those three people you named are oppressed. Are they not allowed to make a great living? better than yours, I warrant. Where are they not allowed to go that you are allowed?

Glad to hear you are busy. Busy is good, usually.

I will be leaving here soon. But we can piece together this discussion over time. I am eager to hear how you think the USA is an oppressive country. I think it was in 1952 - not so much now. But "now" is what Kaep is protesting. And most of the rest of them have no idea why they kneeling or what they are protesting, just some idea of team solidarity. What is Drew Brees protesting?

I think Tanq pointed out that Brees explained that he participated in an act of solidarity rather than an act of protest.

To the bold, you have impeccable timing. It's not renting an apartment, but a venue:

"Mississippi venue apparently denied interracial couple's wedding over 'Christian belief,' video shows"

https://abcnews.go.com/US/mississippi-ve...d=65356377

Glad you found that evidence of rampant, deep, and pervasive racism. So now we know of one instance. One. Call out the national guard.

Glad you found one instance of that *just* to call out OO. Go home, google it some more and come back to us with your results.

When you can show me a evidence of rampant, deep, systemic, widespread, and pervasive levels of examples like you just brought forth, that would be germane.

Not a single incident.

OO was the one saying he knew of not a single thing/instance.

I provided a direct contradiction to his insistence that these things don't happen...
OK , now that is specious.

Kind of silly too. Finding an incident of man bites dog does not prove that men all over the country are viciously biting dogs.
I don’t remember saying not a single incident. Maybe when I said nobody these days is shut out of a school, a college, a job, a restaurant, a restroom, etc, by race you took that mean I was saying we live in a perfectly color blind nation. I believe my exact words, which you quoted, were “not so much”.

Instead, I would like you to explain how those three people you named are oppressed. Second request.

I am sure there is a lumber yard owner somewhere that would rather hire whites than blacks. I am equally sure there are contractors who would rather hire blacks than white. Neither are proof that this is an oppressive country.
09-06-2019 03:59 PM
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Post: #77
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
(09-06-2019 03:58 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 03:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 03:48 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  So saying 'just one happened' is you not making a statement on the justice, just pointing out OO was wrong. Very productive. Good for you. Happy that OO was wrong on a point?
Well maybe OO should learn to not speak in absolutes if he doesn’t want to have his inaccuracies pointed out. It is awfully nice of you to keep going to bat for him.
And I’m sure I could find more evidence of issues if I dug into fair housing complaints, but I don’t have the time for that. But if it is true that we truly have o racial issues in this country, especially in the housing market, I would imagine I would have a really hard time finding any complaints.
Again, does this incident, so seemingly out of the norm that it makes the national news, confirm for you that the USA is a oppressive county?
Instead of your fixation on trying to 'prove' OO wrong, perhaps you might want to take a crack at the pertinent issue.

I don't know that Lad's anecdote actually proved OO wrong. We certainly don't know enough details about the incident to make any determination.

In any event, the plural of anecdote is not evidence. And so far we don't even have the plural.
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2019 04:01 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-06-2019 04:00 PM
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Rice93 Offline
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Post: #78
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
(09-06-2019 03:59 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 03:43 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 02:52 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 11:19 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 10:50 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  I think Tanq pointed out that Brees explained that he participated in an act of solidarity rather than an act of protest.

To the bold, you have impeccable timing. It's not renting an apartment, but a venue:

"Mississippi venue apparently denied interracial couple's wedding over 'Christian belief,' video shows"

https://abcnews.go.com/US/mississippi-ve...d=65356377

Glad you found that evidence of rampant, deep, and pervasive racism. So now we know of one instance. One. Call out the national guard.

Glad you found one instance of that *just* to call out OO. Go home, google it some more and come back to us with your results.

When you can show me a evidence of rampant, deep, systemic, widespread, and pervasive levels of examples like you just brought forth, that would be germane.

Not a single incident.

OO was the one saying he knew of not a single thing/instance.

I provided a direct contradiction to his insistence that these things don't happen...
OK , now that is specious.

Kind of silly too. Finding an incident of man bites dog does not prove that men all over the country are viciously biting dogs.
I don’t remember saying not a single incident. Maybe when I said nobody these days is shut out of a school, a college, a job, a restaurant, a restroom, etc, by race you took that mean I was saying we live in a perfectly color blind nation. I believe my exact words, which you quoted, were “not so much”.

Instead, I would like you to explain how those three people you named are oppressed. Second request.

I am sure there is a lumber yard owner somewhere that would rather hire whites than blacks. I am equally sure there are contractors who would rather hire blacks than white. Neither are proof that this is an oppressive country.

OO thinks that racism is no longer a problem in America. I would be surprised if even the far right wingers in this country would echo that sentiment.

I'm pretty sure that there is nothing that I can post here that is going to change his mind if that is his stance.
09-06-2019 04:03 PM
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Post: #79
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
(09-06-2019 03:58 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 03:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 03:48 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  So saying 'just one happened' is you not making a statement on the justice, just pointing out OO was wrong. Very productive. Good for you. Happy that OO was wrong on a point?

Well maybe OO should learn to not speak in absolutes if he doesn’t want to have his inaccuracies pointed out. It is awfully nice of you to keep going to bat for him.

And I’m sure I could find more evidence of issues if I dug into fair housing complaints, but I don’t have the time for that. But if it is true that we truly have o racial issues in this country, especially in the housing market, I would imagine I would have a really hard time finding any complaints.

Again, does this incident, so seemingly out of the norm that it makes the national news, confirm for you that the USA is a oppressive county?

Instead of your fixation on trying to 'prove' OO wrong, perhaps you might want to take a crack at the pertinent issue.

See the response you responded to.
09-06-2019 04:08 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #80
RE: 2020 Presidential Horse Race Thread
(09-06-2019 04:08 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 03:58 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 03:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-06-2019 03:48 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  So saying 'just one happened' is you not making a statement on the justice, just pointing out OO was wrong. Very productive. Good for you. Happy that OO was wrong on a point?

Well maybe OO should learn to not speak in absolutes if he doesn’t want to have his inaccuracies pointed out. It is awfully nice of you to keep going to bat for him.

And I’m sure I could find more evidence of issues if I dug into fair housing complaints, but I don’t have the time for that. But if it is true that we truly have o racial issues in this country, especially in the housing market, I would imagine I would have a really hard time finding any complaints.

Again, does this incident, so seemingly out of the norm that it makes the national news, confirm for you that the USA is a oppressive county?

Instead of your fixation on trying to 'prove' OO wrong, perhaps you might want to take a crack at the pertinent issue.

See the response you responded to.

That is an amazingly brave non-answer.
09-06-2019 04:10 PM
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