(08-23-2019 12:25 PM)Hammersmith Wrote:  

(08-23-2019 10:32 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(08-22-2019 04:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  WCC coaches are looking at Grand Canyon U. Denver would be smart to tag onto GCU and offered WCC as a pair because you get 2 large media markets with two privates.

Not happening, will not happen.

I've seen some comments that GCU talked to the Summit in the past year but that the Summit chose to not pursue them. Don't know where that came from and I can't verify that it is true, but it is out there.

I believe it came from the USD AD during a radio interview on Bison 1660(Fargo). Maybe it's also leaked from other sources as I heard people talking about it shortly before the interview aired. It sounds like the 4 Dakota schools plus Denver were opposed and ORU was supportive. Unknown how the other Summit schools (informally) voted. I'm fairly certain the schools that voted against GCU did it for academic and not competitive reasons.

Sounds correct. I believe that was the same interview where Herbster did not sound overly excited about the addition of Augustana. Which I'm hoping is the same feeling SDSU and NDSU have.

(08-23-2019 11:38 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(08-22-2019 10:10 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(08-22-2019 04:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  WCC coaches are looking at Grand Canyon U. Denver would be smart to tag onto GCU and offered WCC as a pair because you get 2 large media markets with two privates.

Grand Canyon is probably more toxic than Liberty. They are only in the WAC because the WAC was in desperation mode for survival. They will never be invited to the WCC or Big West or anywhere else.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/c.../71175576/

The comparison to Liberty is ridiculous. At least one coach in the WCC disagrees:

"They'd be a good fit for our league and a good media market for our league to be in, so I think it's only a matter of time," St. Mary's basketball coach Randy Bennett said. "They need to fight through these years and then when they are eligible for the postseason as far as NIT and NCAA, then I think it's going to happen."

Rick Pitino added:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...-kentucky/

"This in college basketball in my 40-plus years was the toughest crowd I ever faced," Pitino said. "It was awesome. I don't know how -- I don't know a whole lot about Grand Canyon except for us doing Dan a favor coming out here. I probably would have lost my job if I had lost by doing people favors. But you have something really special here."

LOL, the presidents of a bunch of high quality Catholic schools and a few other well regarded private schools are not going to vote to associate themselves with a for-profit school, even with the charade of being a non-profit. GCU will never be in the WCC or Big West no matter what any coach up to and including Mark Few might think.

(08-23-2019 01:55 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(08-23-2019 11:38 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(08-22-2019 10:10 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(08-22-2019 04:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  WCC coaches are looking at Grand Canyon U. Denver would be smart to tag onto GCU and offered WCC as a pair because you get 2 large media markets with two privates.

Grand Canyon is probably more toxic than Liberty. They are only in the WAC because the WAC was in desperation mode for survival. They will never be invited to the WCC or Big West or anywhere else.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/c.../71175576/

The comparison to Liberty is ridiculous. At least one coach in the WCC disagrees:

"They'd be a good fit for our league and a good media market for our league to be in, so I think it's only a matter of time," St. Mary's basketball coach Randy Bennett said. "They need to fight through these years and then when they are eligible for the postseason as far as NIT and NCAA, then I think it's going to happen."

Rick Pitino added:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...-kentucky/

"This in college basketball in my 40-plus years was the toughest crowd I ever faced," Pitino said. "It was awesome. I don't know how -- I don't know a whole lot about Grand Canyon except for us doing Dan a favor coming out here. I probably would have lost my job if I had lost by doing people favors. But you have something really special here."

LOL, the presidents of a bunch of high quality Catholic schools and a few other well regarded private schools are not going to vote to associate themselves with a for-profit school, even with the charade of being a non-profit. GCU will never be in the WCC or Big West no matter what any coach up to and including Mark Few might think.

The WCC presidents won't be swayed by a bribe. The cash strapped public Big West is a different matter, however. The decision to add one of the poorer academic institutions in Cal State Bakersfield, who was looked down on for 15 years, says academics don't matter as much. The BW presidents are weak minded enough that a good cash bribe from GCU might be enough to get them in. Phoenix is relatively close by and GCU's sports mix lines up perfectly with the Big West.

And - if this matters at all - GCU was in the same conference as UC Riverside, Davis and San Diego from the mid 90s through the mid 2000s and have spent nearly 20 years with CSUB both in Division 2 and the WAC.

(08-23-2019 03:39 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(08-23-2019 01:55 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(08-23-2019 11:38 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(08-22-2019 10:10 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(08-22-2019 04:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  WCC coaches are looking at Grand Canyon U. Denver would be smart to tag onto GCU and offered WCC as a pair because you get 2 large media markets with two privates.

Grand Canyon is probably more toxic than Liberty. They are only in the WAC because the WAC was in desperation mode for survival. They will never be invited to the WCC or Big West or anywhere else.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/c.../71175576/

The comparison to Liberty is ridiculous. At least one coach in the WCC disagrees:

"They'd be a good fit for our league and a good media market for our league to be in, so I think it's only a matter of time," St. Mary's basketball coach Randy Bennett said. "They need to fight through these years and then when they are eligible for the postseason as far as NIT and NCAA, then I think it's going to happen."

Rick Pitino added:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...-kentucky/

"This in college basketball in my 40-plus years was the toughest crowd I ever faced," Pitino said. "It was awesome. I don't know how -- I don't know a whole lot about Grand Canyon except for us doing Dan a favor coming out here. I probably would have lost my job if I had lost by doing people favors. But you have something really special here."

LOL, the presidents of a bunch of high quality Catholic schools and a few other well regarded private schools are not going to vote to associate themselves with a for-profit school, even with the charade of being a non-profit. GCU will never be in the WCC or Big West no matter what any coach up to and including Mark Few might think.

The WCC presidents won't be swayed by a bribe. The cash strapped public Big West is a different matter, however. The decision to add one of the poorer academic institutions in Cal State Bakersfield, who was looked down on for 15 years, says academics don't matter as much. The BW presidents are weak minded enough that a good cash bribe from GCU might be enough to get them in. Phoenix is relatively close by and GCU's sports mix lines up perfectly with the Big West.

And - if this matters at all - GCU was in the same conference as UC Riverside, Davis and San Diego from the mid 90s through the mid 2000s and have spent nearly 20 years with CSUB both in Division 2 and the WAC.

Cal State-Bakersfield is just that, a Cal State institution. It serves as open enrollment for 4 year degrees just like Fresno, San Jose, etc. That is nothing compared to how a for-profit is seen, especially by the elite UCs - San Diego, Santa Barbara, Davis, and Irvine who aren't going to have dick to do with a private for-profit no matter what is offered.

Augustana To D1, St. Thomas Expected To Go D2 NSIC


Augustana could join Summit League by June 1, 2021. It is the wrong school to join because I wanted to see Mankato State, St. Cloud State or Minn.-Duluth to join SL.

(08-23-2019 12:14 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Coaches don't add teams to a league. Presidents do.

And you getting into DavidSt territory using a four year old quote to try to make a point.

You are correct. The Presidents will make the decision, if and when the WCC decides to add schools. I don't see that happening anytime before 2025, possibly 2030. I used those quotes to show what other coaches think of the school. Given their athletic budget and their facilities, the AD's and coaches will not have any problem with them. They need time to get their academics together. GCU is currently an R3 school (R3 Carnegie Classification).

(08-23-2019 12:54 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(08-23-2019 12:25 PM)Hammersmith Wrote:  

(08-23-2019 10:32 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(08-22-2019 04:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  WCC coaches are looking at Grand Canyon U. Denver would be smart to tag onto GCU and offered WCC as a pair because you get 2 large media markets with two privates.

Not happening, will not happen.

I've seen some comments that GCU talked to the Summit in the past year but that the Summit chose to not pursue them. Don't know where that came from and I can't verify that it is true, but it is out there.

I believe it came from the USD AD during a radio interview on Bison 1660(Fargo). Maybe it's also leaked from other sources as I heard people talking about it shortly before the interview aired. It sounds like the 4 Dakota schools plus Denver were opposed and ORU was supportive. Unknown how the other Summit schools (informally) voted. I'm fairly certain the schools that voted against GCU did it for academic and not competitive reasons.

Sounds correct. I believe that was the same interview where Herbster did not sound overly excited about the addition of Augustana. Which I'm hoping is the same feeling SDSU and NDSU have.

Never happened. GCU playing in a Dakota league? With Denver? The WAC is a better basketball conference, baseball conference and men's soccer conference. The basketball tournament is played in Vegas. The baseball tournament down the street in Mesa, Arizona. This year's soccer tournament is being played at Colorado Springs, home of Air Force, a WAC member for soccer.

GCU has rivalries with NMSU, CBU and Dixie State. They recruit athletes and students in California. The Summit does absolutely nothing for GCU.

Actually, the coaches want GCU to recruit basketball players in the state. Having GCU could help them be recognized by the kids there. 2nd, Phoenix area have a hotbed of Catholics in the area. Since there are no D1 Catholic schools in D1? Adding GCU would help attract Catholic kids to go to their colleges and universities. That is why GCU is on the top of the list to be invited to the WCC. PAC 12 did not want GCU in joining D1, but they are slowly accepting them for their success in their short period in D1. Not sure D1 wants to add more for or former for-profit schools to join D1.

Post in Conn.
Academy of Art in San Francisco
Keiser in Florida was a for-profit in NAIA
Both ASA campuses are in the NJCAA
Bryant & Stratton in USCAA all campuses
California Miramar Independent not to be confused with CSU-Miramar
Florida National in NAIA
Monroe in NJCAA
Salem International D2
Stratford in USCAA
Waldorf in NAIA
Berkeley in USCAA former
Southern New Hampshire D2 former for profit
Briar Cliffe of USCAA now closed
Brown Mackie NJCAA in Kansas closed
Daniel Webster formaly in NCAA now closed
King's College-Charlotte Ind. now closed.

It is the for profit schools that could make the jump faster than the others. More money.

(08-23-2019 05:17 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Augustana To D1, St. Thomas Expected To Go D2 NSIC


Augustana could join Summit League by June 1, 2021. It is the wrong school to join because I wanted to see Mankato State, St. Cloud State or Minn.-Duluth to join SL.

Nowhere in that article does it saySt. Thomas is expected to go to the NSIC

(08-23-2019 06:27 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  Never happened. GCU playing in a Dakota league? With Denver? The WAC is a better basketball conference, baseball conference and men's soccer conference. The basketball tournament is played in Vegas. The baseball tournament down the street in Mesa, Arizona. This year's soccer tournament is being played at Colorado Springs, home of Air Force, a WAC member for soccer.

GCU has rivalries with NMSU, CBU and Dixie State. They recruit athletes and students in California. The Summit does absolutely nothing for GCU.

Sorry to break it to you, but GCU did contact the Summit about membership and was turned down. The quote came from a Summit AD and was never refuted by GCU to my knowledge. The quote has been used in multiple stories. Here's one of them from the beginning of the year:

https://www.yankton.net/sports/article_e...d687c.html

Quote:[USD AD David Herbster] did say that Grand Canyon University (Arizona) had previously expressed interest in joining, but the Summit League decided not to go in that direction.

There's been a lot of discussion on Denver and its "fit" in the Summit League.
Here's a different thought: the addition of Auggie (98% chance of happening IMO) and especially St. Thomas MN makes Denver a lot more comfortable being in the Summit League.
That the addition of more good private schools makes private-Denver feel less like an outsider in the conference.

(In know ORU is a private school, and ORU has greatly improved in the past 10 years since removing the Roberts family...but I think ORU is not the kind of school that Denver would ordinarily hang out with.)

David - again spouting of with zero facts. The whole 5 million Phoenix metro area only has 6 male Catholic high schools with a combined enrollment of 3,000. Not exactly a hotbed

(08-23-2019 03:39 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(08-23-2019 01:55 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(08-23-2019 11:38 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(08-22-2019 10:10 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(08-22-2019 04:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  WCC coaches are looking at Grand Canyon U. Denver would be smart to tag onto GCU and offered WCC as a pair because you get 2 large media markets with two privates.

Grand Canyon is probably more toxic than Liberty. They are only in the WAC because the WAC was in desperation mode for survival. They will never be invited to the WCC or Big West or anywhere else.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/c.../71175576/

The comparison to Liberty is ridiculous. At least one coach in the WCC disagrees:

"They'd be a good fit for our league and a good media market for our league to be in, so I think it's only a matter of time," St. Mary's basketball coach Randy Bennett said. "They need to fight through these years and then when they are eligible for the postseason as far as NIT and NCAA, then I think it's going to happen."

Rick Pitino added:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...-kentucky/

"This in college basketball in my 40-plus years was the toughest crowd I ever faced," Pitino said. "It was awesome. I don't know how -- I don't know a whole lot about Grand Canyon except for us doing Dan a favor coming out here. I probably would have lost my job if I had lost by doing people favors. But you have something really special here."

LOL, the presidents of a bunch of high quality Catholic schools and a few other well regarded private schools are not going to vote to associate themselves with a for-profit school, even with the charade of being a non-profit. GCU will never be in the WCC or Big West no matter what any coach up to and including Mark Few might think.

The WCC presidents won't be swayed by a bribe. The cash strapped public Big West is a different matter, however. The decision to add one of the poorer academic institutions in Cal State Bakersfield, who was looked down on for 15 years, says academics don't matter as much. The BW presidents are weak minded enough that a good cash bribe from GCU might be enough to get them in. Phoenix is relatively close by and GCU's sports mix lines up perfectly with the Big West.

And - if this matters at all - GCU was in the same conference as UC Riverside, Davis and San Diego from the mid 90s through the mid 2000s and have spent nearly 20 years with CSUB both in Division 2 and the WAC.

But they didn't go for profit until 2004, and GCU left the CCAA after that.

(08-24-2019 12:45 AM)Hammersmith Wrote:  

(08-23-2019 06:27 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  Never happened. GCU playing in a Dakota league? With Denver? The WAC is a better basketball conference, baseball conference and men's soccer conference. The basketball tournament is played in Vegas. The baseball tournament down the street in Mesa, Arizona. This year's soccer tournament is being played at Colorado Springs, home of Air Force, a WAC member for soccer.

GCU has rivalries with NMSU, CBU and Dixie State. They recruit athletes and students in California. The Summit does absolutely nothing for GCU.

Sorry to break it to you, but GCU did contact the Summit about membership and was turned down. The quote came from a Summit AD and was never refuted by GCU to my knowledge. The quote has been used in multiple stories. Here's one of them from the beginning of the year:

https://www.yankton.net/sports/article_e...d687c.html

Quote:[USD AD David Herbster] did say that Grand Canyon University (Arizona) had previously expressed interest in joining, but the Summit League decided not to go in that direction.

This article discussed possible additions after IUPUI left:

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/...d-be-fatal

GCU seems to get on everyone's list, but it doesn't mean that they wanted in. It is not a move that makes sense. They have one rival in NMSU 390 miles to the east. They have another rival in CBU 320 miles to the west. They have an old rival in Dixie State joining next year that is 420 miles to the north. There is no financial advantage, there is no travel savings, no superior competition. If your an Arizona school, you want California schools in your conference. Being in a Dakota league would not be considered a plus for recruiting California students.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loc...753425002/

Four of the top five schools where California freshmen go out of state are in Arizona: the three public universities and Grand Canyon University, according to 2016 Department of Education data.

https://news.gcu.edu/2013/03/california-...it-expand/

GCU has hosted California students at games played by the Antelope men’s and women’s basketball teams in Riverside, Fresno and San Diego. And it has brought students to Phoenix by bus on Fridays for on-campus weekend visits known as “Discover GCU.”

I just do not find the GCU rejected by the Summit claim to have any credibility or that GCU wanted in. It makes zero sense for GCU to join a league centered in the Dakotas.

(08-24-2019 09:30 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  David - again spouting of with zero facts. The whole 5 million Phoenix metro area only has 6 male Catholic high schools with a combined enrollment of 3,000. Not exactly a hotbed

Also Catholics are pretty well integrated in American society these days, it’s not the 1950s anymore. Catholic colleges still do well since they’ve built up their reputations in earlier generations, but Catholics aren’t shunning public colleges. There might be more room to cater to Latinos, but the fault line isn’t religion and I don’t know that Grand Canyon U is poised to benefit in some specific way.

I'd think GCU would look at the Summit purely because of how unstable the WAC is. Summits not a great fit for GCU, but it has a solid core of members who will stick together

(08-24-2019 12:31 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  I'd think GCU would look at the Summit purely because of how unstable the WAC is. Summits not a great fit for GCU, but it has a solid core of members who will stick together

I understand the stability argument, but not for the Summit. Going into 2020-2021, the WAC will have eight basketball schools, 10 baseball schools and 11 men's soccer schools. In 2020-2021, the Summit will have nine basketball schools, five baseball schools and six men's soccer schools. Neither conference is screaming stability. The Summit has a core group of schools that are not geographically desirable to other conferences. That is why Augustana College makes a lot of sense for the Summit. It makes the core group stronger. That core group does not make sense for GCU.

Disappointed if St Thomas goes D2. Perhaps the NCAA is unwilling to grant their waiver. They'd be a solid add to the Summit and perhaps the Horizon at some point.