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UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
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Z-Fly Online
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Post: #21
RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
If they don't want to do a 1-1, they'll just have to wait to play the Bearcats in the playoffs.
 
08-14-2019 01:58 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
I'm for playing them any time, any place. You can't beat them if you don't play them. Why would we not want to play against a perennial Top 10 team that is within a two hour drive from Cincinnati? If we aspire to be the best you have to play against the best. No offense to UConn, Tulsa, ECU, et al.
 
08-14-2019 02:48 PM
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Billy_Bearcat Offline
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RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
We haven’t beaten them in a game of consequence in over 50 years. Not sure it matters.
 
08-14-2019 03:36 PM
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bearcatlawjd2 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
Right now Ohio State is on the list of near impossible road games. Maybe the coaching change is a difference maker and brings them down to earth.

Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State are in my no way list. Georgia, LSU, and Oklahoma are next.

I don’t mind one off or two for one games against Notre Dame or inconsistent name opponents. Home and homes are best.
 
08-14-2019 04:08 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
For no more than playing them twice in a decade I don't have a problem with a road game to Columbus. Again, we haven't beaten them yet...when [not if] we beat them it would be in their beloved horse shoe [pony palace].
 
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2019 04:42 PM by UCGrad1992.)
08-14-2019 04:17 PM
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UCbball21 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
I would play Ohio State every year if we could. Ideally, it would be a home and home series at Nippert or PBS but zero chance Ohio State would do that so the real answer is however much they are willing to play us.
 
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2019 04:40 PM by UCbball21.)
08-14-2019 04:39 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
(08-14-2019 03:36 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  We haven’t beaten them in a game of consequence in over 50 years. Not sure it matters.

When we beat them you can wear your Cincinnati jersey around C-Town for a week smiling broadly.
 
08-14-2019 04:45 PM
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converrl Offline
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Post: #28
RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
If you can't get OSU...then try Oklahoma...if you can't get them, try UL, If you can't get them, try Michigan or Michigan St or Notre Dame. If you can't get any of them, try Auburn or LSU or Texas or Tennesee.

There are scores of big programs UC can and should schedule--play and beat any P5 team (try at least 2 or 3 per season) and then you have a REAL shot at being in the playoff. Don't worry about home and away. Don't cower in the corner...if you are SERIOUS about building the program, play them and BEAT them.

Otherwise....be happy with your current status. You are either committed or not.
 
08-14-2019 06:10 PM
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cincy7718 Offline
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RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
(08-14-2019 12:23 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 12:19 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 10:07 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Honestly I don’t see the benefits at this point. Would rather play a home game this year vs Ohio than play at Ohio State which is a likely loss. UC has one goal every year which is to win all their non-conference games and then win the league. Doing that locks in a NY6 bowl game. Any loss including one at Ohio State hurts the resume. While winning would be huge it really doesn’t put UC closer to the NY6 bowl game because the Cats still need to win the conference and the beat UCLA, Marshall, and Miami.

Good points. So UCF was criticized for its "weak" schedule playing low to mid-tier P5 teams the past couple of years. But maybe they had the right scheduling philosophy after all since it landed the Knights in prime time bowls where they earned a split with Auburn and LSU.

As far as getting in the best bowls goes, Any loss hurts more than a great win helps. If you look at the playoff teams over the years it's basically counting losses. When teams are even schedule/strength of wins can come into play...and G5 teams are always going to have a huge penalty, but if you want to know which P5 teams / ND make the playoff...count their losses.

That is my thinking as well. We should schedule the best teams we have a reasonable shot at beating. Losing even to great teams doesn’t help anything. When you’re not p5 you need to go undefeated to really make noise. If we build up multiple big seasons and a loaded roster that has a legit shot at beating top tier teams is when we should really push for it. Until then it’s fun once and a while but not a great idea to lock a sure loss into the schedule every year, especially with unfavorable terms
 
08-14-2019 09:20 PM
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converrl Offline
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Post: #30
RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
(08-14-2019 09:20 PM)cincy7718 Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 12:23 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 12:19 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 10:07 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Honestly I don’t see the benefits at this point. Would rather play a home game this year vs Ohio than play at Ohio State which is a likely loss. UC has one goal every year which is to win all their non-conference games and then win the league. Doing that locks in a NY6 bowl game. Any loss including one at Ohio State hurts the resume. While winning would be huge it really doesn’t put UC closer to the NY6 bowl game because the Cats still need to win the conference and the beat UCLA, Marshall, and Miami.

Good points. So UCF was criticized for its "weak" schedule playing low to mid-tier P5 teams the past couple of years. But maybe they had the right scheduling philosophy after all since it landed the Knights in prime time bowls where they earned a split with Auburn and LSU.

As far as getting in the best bowls goes, Any loss hurts more than a great win helps. If you look at the playoff teams over the years it's basically counting losses. When teams are even schedule/strength of wins can come into play...and G5 teams are always going to have a huge penalty, but if you want to know which P5 teams / ND make the playoff...count their losses.

That is my thinking as well. We should schedule the best teams we have a reasonable shot at beating. Losing even to great teams doesn’t help anything. When you’re not p5 you need to go undefeated to really make noise. If we build up multiple big seasons and a loaded roster that has a legit shot at beating top tier teams is when we should really push for it. Until then it’s fun once and a while but not a great idea to lock a sure loss into the schedule every year, especially with unfavorable terms

That's a philosophy of fear. Not a good look for a program that wants to step up. Don't be afraid of these teams...schedule them!
 
08-15-2019 02:34 AM
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bearcatlawjd2 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
(08-15-2019 02:34 AM)converrl Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 09:20 PM)cincy7718 Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 12:23 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 12:19 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 10:07 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Honestly I don’t see the benefits at this point. Would rather play a home game this year vs Ohio than play at Ohio State which is a likely loss. UC has one goal every year which is to win all their non-conference games and then win the league. Doing that locks in a NY6 bowl game. Any loss including one at Ohio State hurts the resume. While winning would be huge it really doesn’t put UC closer to the NY6 bowl game because the Cats still need to win the conference and the beat UCLA, Marshall, and Miami.

Good points. So UCF was criticized for its "weak" schedule playing low to mid-tier P5 teams the past couple of years. But maybe they had the right scheduling philosophy after all since it landed the Knights in prime time bowls where they earned a split with Auburn and LSU.

As far as getting in the best bowls goes, Any loss hurts more than a great win helps. If you look at the playoff teams over the years it's basically counting losses. When teams are even schedule/strength of wins can come into play...and G5 teams are always going to have a huge penalty, but if you want to know which P5 teams / ND make the playoff...count their losses.

That is my thinking as well. We should schedule the best teams we have a reasonable shot at beating. Losing even to great teams doesn’t help anything. When you’re not p5 you need to go undefeated to really make noise. If we build up multiple big seasons and a loaded roster that has a legit shot at beating top tier teams is when we should really push for it. Until then it’s fun once and a while but not a great idea to lock a sure loss into the schedule every year, especially with unfavorable terms

That's a philosophy of fear. Not a good look for a program that wants to step up. Don't be afraid of these teams...schedule them!

It’s about being smart and understanding that the rules in college do not create an equal playing field. Basically it’s still about counting losses and avoiding low win probability road games.

A change in post season structure could change this strategy but as long as UC is competing with the other G5 conferences the American is enough to create schedule strength. Basically the American is the SEC of the G5 while MWC is the like PAC-12 of the G5 while the rest of those conferences are minor leagues. An American team is going get the nod unless Boise State has a special season. There is no reason to schedule games that basically give you an early season loss. Remember Houston in 2016 beat Oklahoma in a semi home game and Louisville at home but lost three hours conference and went on to lose in the Las Vegas Bowl. If Cincinnati can get games at PBS or Nippert against elite programs then do it. Winning those games help perception but ultimately it’s winning a major post season bowl game is going to be real game changer. To get there you need to navigate the non-conference schedule as an undefeated team. This season’s schedule is my view has the team setup for failure, way too many difficult non-conference games and early conference games. Team could be 4-2 (which would great) and off the radar. 2020 and 2021 are better served for success especially if the conference gets a waiver and second place is that is needed for a chance to play in the championship game.
 
08-15-2019 06:24 AM
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Z-Fly Online
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Post: #32
RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
(08-14-2019 06:10 PM)converrl Wrote:  If you can't get OSU...then try Oklahoma...if you can't get them, try UL, If you can't get them, try Michigan or Michigan St or Notre Dame. If you can't get any of them, try Auburn or LSU or Texas or Tennesee.

There are scores of big programs UC can and should schedule--play and beat any P5 team (try at least 2 or 3 per season) and then you have a REAL shot at being in the playoff. Don't worry about home and away. Don't cower in the corner...if you are SERIOUS about building the program, play them and BEAT them.

Otherwise....be happy with your current status. You are either committed or not.

Playing them on the road every year is small time. This program isn't small time. UC doesn't need buy games. It's not about being scared.
 
08-15-2019 06:24 AM
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Post: #33
RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
(08-14-2019 12:19 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 10:07 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Honestly I don’t see the benefits at this point. Would rather play a home game this year vs Ohio than play at Ohio State which is a likely loss. UC has one goal every year which is to win all their non-conference games and then win the league. Doing that locks in a NY6 bowl game. Any loss including one at Ohio State hurts the resume. While winning would be huge it really doesn’t put UC closer to the NY6 bowl game because the Cats still need to win the conference and the beat UCLA, Marshall, and Miami.

Good points. So UCF was criticized for its "weak" schedule playing low to mid-tier P5 teams the past couple of years. But maybe they had the right scheduling philosophy after all since it landed the Knights in prime time bowls where they earned a split with Auburn and LSU.

UCF got the Access Bowl because they won the AAC, not because they were undefeated. The next highest G5 champ was 10-3 Boise in 2017 and 11-2 Fresno in 2018. A UCF loss to Georgia Tech or North Carolina (both canceled by hurricanes) wouldn't have changed UCF's bowl game in either year.

But if they had won @Alabama or @Ohio State in either year, I bet they would have been in the playoffs.
 
08-15-2019 06:29 AM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
(08-15-2019 06:29 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 12:19 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 10:07 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Honestly I don’t see the benefits at this point. Would rather play a home game this year vs Ohio than play at Ohio State which is a likely loss. UC has one goal every year which is to win all their non-conference games and then win the league. Doing that locks in a NY6 bowl game. Any loss including one at Ohio State hurts the resume. While winning would be huge it really doesn’t put UC closer to the NY6 bowl game because the Cats still need to win the conference and the beat UCLA, Marshall, and Miami.

Good points. So UCF was criticized for its "weak" schedule playing low to mid-tier P5 teams the past couple of years. But maybe they had the right scheduling philosophy after all since it landed the Knights in prime time bowls where they earned a split with Auburn and LSU.

UCF got the Access Bowl because they won the AAC, not because they were undefeated. The next highest G5 champ was 10-3 Boise in 2017 and 11-2 Fresno in 2018. A UCF loss to Georgia Tech or North Carolina (both canceled by hurricanes) wouldn't have changed UCF's bowl game in either year.

But if they had won @Alabama or @Ohio State in either year, I bet they would have been in the playoffs.

And....this year we have a legit shot at getting to the playoffs if we beat OSU on the road. Is a playoff birth likely? Probably not but it's a hell of a lot more likely than last year because of the schedule.
 
08-15-2019 07:46 AM
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Post: #35
RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
Our only hope for the playoffs is to go 13-0 and tO$U goes 12-1. They get in at 12-1 and it’d be pretty damn hard to keep us out using any logic whatsoever.
 
08-15-2019 08:08 AM
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Post: #36
RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
(08-15-2019 02:34 AM)converrl Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 09:20 PM)cincy7718 Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 12:23 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 12:19 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 10:07 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Honestly I don’t see the benefits at this point. Would rather play a home game this year vs Ohio than play at Ohio State which is a likely loss. UC has one goal every year which is to win all their non-conference games and then win the league. Doing that locks in a NY6 bowl game. Any loss including one at Ohio State hurts the resume. While winning would be huge it really doesn’t put UC closer to the NY6 bowl game because the Cats still need to win the conference and the beat UCLA, Marshall, and Miami.

Good points. So UCF was criticized for its "weak" schedule playing low to mid-tier P5 teams the past couple of years. But maybe they had the right scheduling philosophy after all since it landed the Knights in prime time bowls where they earned a split with Auburn and LSU.

As far as getting in the best bowls goes, Any loss hurts more than a great win helps. If you look at the playoff teams over the years it's basically counting losses. When teams are even schedule/strength of wins can come into play...and G5 teams are always going to have a huge penalty, but if you want to know which P5 teams / ND make the playoff...count their losses.

That is my thinking as well. We should schedule the best teams we have a reasonable shot at beating. Losing even to great teams doesn’t help anything. When you’re not p5 you need to go undefeated to really make noise. If we build up multiple big seasons and a loaded roster that has a legit shot at beating top tier teams is when we should really push for it. Until then it’s fun once and a while but not a great idea to lock a sure loss into the schedule every year, especially with unfavorable terms

That's a philosophy of fear. Not a good look for a program that wants to step up. Don't be afraid of these teams...schedule them!

Well first of all, I think those "elite" programs are more afraid to schedule us than we are of them. Losing to us is a bigger bite out of their ass then it is the other way around.

However, we here in G5 land face a double edged sword.

If you make a schedule to go 13-0, then they'll just say about us what they said about UCF... they don't play anybody.

If we schedule tough and lose only to the good team or two, then they'll say... they can't run with the big boys.

We have to go undefeated AND beat a blue blood to ever have a thought of making the CFP.

… which uhhh, we could do this year.
 
08-15-2019 08:16 AM
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converrl Offline
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Post: #37
RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
(08-15-2019 08:16 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 02:34 AM)converrl Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 09:20 PM)cincy7718 Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 12:23 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 12:19 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  Good points. So UCF was criticized for its "weak" schedule playing low to mid-tier P5 teams the past couple of years. But maybe they had the right scheduling philosophy after all since it landed the Knights in prime time bowls where they earned a split with Auburn and LSU.

As far as getting in the best bowls goes, Any loss hurts more than a great win helps. If you look at the playoff teams over the years it's basically counting losses. When teams are even schedule/strength of wins can come into play...and G5 teams are always going to have a huge penalty, but if you want to know which P5 teams / ND make the playoff...count their losses.

That is my thinking as well. We should schedule the best teams we have a reasonable shot at beating. Losing even to great teams doesn’t help anything. When you’re not p5 you need to go undefeated to really make noise. If we build up multiple big seasons and a loaded roster that has a legit shot at beating top tier teams is when we should really push for it. Until then it’s fun once and a while but not a great idea to lock a sure loss into the schedule every year, especially with unfavorable terms

That's a philosophy of fear. Not a good look for a program that wants to step up. Don't be afraid of these teams...schedule them!

Well first of all, I think those "elite" programs are more afraid to schedule us than we are of them. Losing to us is a bigger bite out of their ass then it is the other way around.

However, we here in G5 land face a double edged sword.

If you make a schedule to go 13-0, then they'll just say about us what they said about UCF... they don't play anybody.

If we schedule tough and lose only to the good team or two, then they'll say... they can't run with the big boys.

We have to go undefeated AND beat a blue blood to ever have a thought of making the CFP.

… which uhhh, we could do this year.

Not just "a" blueblood...UC needs to beat 2 or 3 bluebloods to really have a shot at the CFP.

Make that schedule and win those games.
 
08-15-2019 08:49 AM
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Post: #38
RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
(08-15-2019 02:34 AM)converrl Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 09:20 PM)cincy7718 Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 12:23 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 12:19 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 10:07 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Honestly I don’t see the benefits at this point. Would rather play a home game this year vs Ohio than play at Ohio State which is a likely loss. UC has one goal every year which is to win all their non-conference games and then win the league. Doing that locks in a NY6 bowl game. Any loss including one at Ohio State hurts the resume. While winning would be huge it really doesn’t put UC closer to the NY6 bowl game because the Cats still need to win the conference and the beat UCLA, Marshall, and Miami.

Good points. So UCF was criticized for its "weak" schedule playing low to mid-tier P5 teams the past couple of years. But maybe they had the right scheduling philosophy after all since it landed the Knights in prime time bowls where they earned a split with Auburn and LSU.

As far as getting in the best bowls goes, Any loss hurts more than a great win helps. If you look at the playoff teams over the years it's basically counting losses. When teams are even schedule/strength of wins can come into play...and G5 teams are always going to have a huge penalty, but if you want to know which P5 teams / ND make the playoff...count their losses.

That is my thinking as well. We should schedule the best teams we have a reasonable shot at beating. Losing even to great teams doesn’t help anything. When you’re not p5 you need to go undefeated to really make noise. If we build up multiple big seasons and a loaded roster that has a legit shot at beating top tier teams is when we should really push for it. Until then it’s fun once and a while but not a great idea to lock a sure loss into the schedule every year, especially with unfavorable terms

That's a philosophy of fear. Not a good look for a program that wants to step up. Don't be afraid of these teams...schedule them!

its not a philosophy of fear at all. its understanding the system is rigged and taking your best shot within a rigged system. half the country has no chance at the playoffs. this was proven twice by ucf. best you can do is get the ny6 bowl. best chance of that is by going undefeated. then you would get both. you get a shot at a big program AND you get the big bowl game with the whole nation watching a top 20 Bearcat team in primetime. until college football becomes a legitimate competition, scheduling for undefeated seasons is the smart move for any non p5 school.
 
08-15-2019 12:52 PM
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Post: #39
RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
(08-15-2019 12:52 PM)cincy7718 Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 02:34 AM)converrl Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 09:20 PM)cincy7718 Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 12:23 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 12:19 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  Good points. So UCF was criticized for its "weak" schedule playing low to mid-tier P5 teams the past couple of years. But maybe they had the right scheduling philosophy after all since it landed the Knights in prime time bowls where they earned a split with Auburn and LSU.

As far as getting in the best bowls goes, Any loss hurts more than a great win helps. If you look at the playoff teams over the years it's basically counting losses. When teams are even schedule/strength of wins can come into play...and G5 teams are always going to have a huge penalty, but if you want to know which P5 teams / ND make the playoff...count their losses.

That is my thinking as well. We should schedule the best teams we have a reasonable shot at beating. Losing even to great teams doesn’t help anything. When you’re not p5 you need to go undefeated to really make noise. If we build up multiple big seasons and a loaded roster that has a legit shot at beating top tier teams is when we should really push for it. Until then it’s fun once and a while but not a great idea to lock a sure loss into the schedule every year, especially with unfavorable terms

That's a philosophy of fear. Not a good look for a program that wants to step up. Don't be afraid of these teams...schedule them!

its not a philosophy of fear at all. its understanding the system is rigged and taking your best shot within a rigged system. half the country has no chance at the playoffs. this was proven twice by ucf. best you can do is get the ny6 bowl. best chance of that is by going undefeated. then you would get both. you get a shot at a big program AND you get the big bowl game with the whole nation watching a top 20 Bearcat team in primetime. until college football becomes a legitimate competition, scheduling for undefeated seasons is the smart move for any non p5 school.

Bolded, I would only add, that it's way more than half out in the cold. Realistically, there may be 15-20 schools that could actually get in the playoff in today's scenario. Blue bloods only need apply. Alabama and Clemson won't go on forever. But they'll be replaced by Georgia, Auburn, LSU and a handful of other big brands.
 
08-15-2019 02:08 PM
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Post: #40
RE: UC vs. OSU football: should the games continue?
(08-15-2019 12:52 PM)cincy7718 Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 02:34 AM)converrl Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 09:20 PM)cincy7718 Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 12:23 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 12:19 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  Good points. So UCF was criticized for its "weak" schedule playing low to mid-tier P5 teams the past couple of years. But maybe they had the right scheduling philosophy after all since it landed the Knights in prime time bowls where they earned a split with Auburn and LSU.

As far as getting in the best bowls goes, Any loss hurts more than a great win helps. If you look at the playoff teams over the years it's basically counting losses. When teams are even schedule/strength of wins can come into play...and G5 teams are always going to have a huge penalty, but if you want to know which P5 teams / ND make the playoff...count their losses.

That is my thinking as well. We should schedule the best teams we have a reasonable shot at beating. Losing even to great teams doesn’t help anything. When you’re not p5 you need to go undefeated to really make noise. If we build up multiple big seasons and a loaded roster that has a legit shot at beating top tier teams is when we should really push for it. Until then it’s fun once and a while but not a great idea to lock a sure loss into the schedule every year, especially with unfavorable terms

That's a philosophy of fear. Not a good look for a program that wants to step up. Don't be afraid of these teams...schedule them!

its not a philosophy of fear at all. its understanding the system is rigged and taking your best shot within a rigged system. half the country has no chance at the playoffs. this was proven twice by ucf. best you can do is get the ny6 bowl. best chance of that is by going undefeated. then you would get both. you get a shot at a big program AND you get the big bowl game with the whole nation watching a top 20 Bearcat team in primetime. until college football becomes a legitimate competition, scheduling for undefeated seasons is the smart move for any non p5 school.

We could get in if we took Notre Dame's approach--play and beat the big boys while going undefeated. Then they have to give you a chance.
 
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2019 04:21 AM by converrl.)
08-16-2019 04:20 AM
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