(08-14-2019 12:24 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 11:34 AM)_sturt_ Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 11:09 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  UAB football fan base has increased tremendously and will continue to do so given all of the recent success and new facilities. Meanwhile, the basketball fan base has seen a significant decrease over the last 5 years.

So, are these *new* football fans, or are these Tide and/or Tiger fans who find it okay to moonlight as UAB fans? Or something else? And why has the basketball fan base went downhill in your opinion... ie, specifically as compared b/t the CUSA 2.0 and CUSA 3.0 years?

Definitely new fans as indicated by the huge increase in season ticket sales. And if Bama and Aubie buys UAB Football season tickets that is fine by me! But no doubt we'll have those fans attending UAB games especially when the new stadium opens in 2021.

As for basketball, well the product has sucked and the rejuvenation of football has sucked some of the life out of the program. Attendance for basketball has been on a steady decline for years now. It has yet to be determine if UAB can have a viable and successful football and basketball program at the same time. We shall see.

And... from your perspective, it seems this all would have been the case whether or not UAB was competing within the CUSA 2.0 environment (ie, pre-AAC) or the 3.0 environment then?

For my perception of ODU, the newness of football in 2009 paired with being in a conference with local and familiar rivals (and immediate winning), football was at an all-time high before the move to CUSA. Playing schools like W&M, JMU, Richmond, Delaware, Towson, and a handful of others provided familiarity from playing them in basketball and other sports plus the fact that they were all relatively local so many people had friends, siblings, teammates, parents, etc that attended those rival schools to make it feel personal. In basketball, we were going to the NCAA tournament every 4 years with a back to back CAA championships in 09/10 and 10/11. Basketball rivalries were what fueled ODU sports in my opinion, due to there not being football back in the day. Some of those schools mentioned plus George Mason, VCU, and other basketball only schools that were local and heated rivlaries were formed from history. I remember when football games were legit sell-outs and not what we called "sell-outs" from the last few seasons. I remember ODU basketball games where everyone, no matter the age, would be standing, yelling and chanting all game, with the student section rocking and loud from start to finish, and would stay to sing the alma mater.

I like being in CUSA because of the opportunities and exposure ODU has gotten, but the fan base has turned a bit apathetic in recent years. a 5-25 basketball season during our transition from CAA to CUSA really rocked the basketball fandom and while it has gotten better, the atmopshere I remember just isn't the same, save for a few high-stakes games or home NIT games. Football has struggled a bit since coming up and the newness has long worn off, plus many fans having to adjust or learn about schools halfway across the country, it's hard to create new rivlaries from scratch. I think the new stadium will help with fan involvement this year and the high of coming off an NCAA appearance should help basketball as well. But as a whole, things are not the same in my eyes (other Monarch faithful can back me up or bash me as they see fit) as it was back then.

But I would never want to go back to the CAA, especially nowadays

(08-14-2019 12:27 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:15 PM)_sturt_ Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 11:59 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  No, alone it doesn't, it was still a huge missed opportunity to continue building the fanbase and the program. Wrong leadership was in place who was content for Marshall to never rise up. Doc does have some WTF losses but he also got us back to competing and winning against P5's, something Snyder couldn't dream of. Every P5 we played under him was a blood bath.He is also playing in a much different conference than Snyder did, he could win every game now and not be given credit for much. Every P5 we played under Snyder was a blood bath. Fans get tired of that stuff.

So, then, what's your larger take on why fan enthusiasm at Marshall isn't running higher in the CUSA 3.0 era than previously?

Honestly, I know I may piss some of our conference brethren off, but there was no replacements that had name recognition out there. You can't replace ECU with ODU or Charlotte and expect it to be a wash. That was just an example and without naming other schools in our conference, I will leave it at that. Average fans that aren't following all of CFB saw these changes and wondered who the heck is that? Why was CUSA 2.0 exciting when we came in? is CUSA 3.0 just as exciting to an average fan? We on here, aren't average fans, we know who is who, how good they are and why we should care. Average Joe doesn't.

Would you, then, agree or disagree that Marshall's ambitions to attain a higher national profile ("prominence" is the word often used in the past) have been taken down a notch or two in the CUSA 3.0 era?

And.

To what degree has the profile of the typical Marshall fan changed, if at all, either in terms of the demographics or psychographics, that would have had some innate affect?

(08-14-2019 12:27 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:15 PM)_sturt_ Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 11:59 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  No, alone it doesn't, it was still a huge missed opportunity to continue building the fanbase and the program. Wrong leadership was in place who was content for Marshall to never rise up. Doc does have some WTF losses but he also got us back to competing and winning against P5's, something Snyder couldn't dream of. Every P5 we played under him was a blood bath.He is also playing in a much different conference than Snyder did, he could win every game now and not be given credit for much. Every P5 we played under Snyder was a blood bath. Fans get tired of that stuff.

So, then, what's your larger take on why fan enthusiasm at Marshall isn't running higher in the CUSA 3.0 era than previously?

Honestly, I know I may piss some of our conference brethren off, but there was no replacements that had name recognition out there. You can't replace ECU with ODU or Charlotte and expect it to be a wash. That was just an example and without naming other schools in our conference, I will leave it at that. Average fans that aren't following all of CFB saw these changes and wondered who the heck is that? Why was CUSA 2.0 exciting when we came in? is CUSA 3.0 just as exciting to an average fan? We on here, aren't average fans, we know who is who, how good they are and why we should care. Average Joe doesn't.

I think it's that and Doc's inability to win championships against teams people don't recognize.

His winning % against teams with a winning record is .300ish. He has an overall losing record when playing on the road. He's .500 on the road vs. G5. And has 1 title in 9 seasons. The pre-Christmas bowl wins just aren't doing it for people anymore.

He loses the games of consequence. The fan's patience is wearing thin.

(08-14-2019 12:40 PM)MonGNARch Wrote:  For my perception of ODU, the newness of football in 2009 paired with being in a conference with local and familiar rivals (and immediate winning), football was at an all-time high before the move to CUSA. Playing schools like W&M, JMU, Richmond, Delaware, Towson, and a handful of others provided familiarity from playing them in basketball and other sports plus the fact that they were all relatively local so many people had friends, siblings, teammates, parents, etc that attended those rival schools to make it feel personal. In basketball, we were going to the NCAA tournament every 4 years with a back to back CAA championships in 09/10 and 10/11. Basketball rivalries were what fueled ODU sports in my opinion, due to there not being football back in the day. Some of those schools mentioned plus George Mason, VCU, and other basketball only schools that were local and heated rivlaries were formed from history. I remember when football games were legit sell-outs and not what we called "sell-outs" from the last few seasons. I remember ODU basketball games where everyone, no matter the age, would be standing, yelling and chanting all game, with the student section rocking and loud from start to finish, and would stay to sing the alma mater.

I like being in CUSA because of the opportunities and exposure ODU has gotten, but the fan base has turned a bit apathetic in recent years. a 5-25 basketball season during our transition from CAA to CUSA really rocked the basketball fandom and while it has gotten better, the atmopshere I remember just isn't the same, save for a few high-stakes games or home NIT games. Football has struggled a bit since coming up and the newness has long worn off, plus many fans having to adjust or learn about schools halfway across the country, it's hard to create new rivlaries from scratch. I think the new stadium will help with fan involvement this year and the high of coming off an NCAA appearance should help basketball as well. But as a whole, things are not the same in my eyes (other Monarch faithful can back me up or bash me as they see fit) as it was back then.

But I would never want to go back to the CAA, especially nowadays

(08-14-2019 12:41 PM)_sturt_ Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:27 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:15 PM)_sturt_ Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 11:59 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  No, alone it doesn't, it was still a huge missed opportunity to continue building the fanbase and the program. Wrong leadership was in place who was content for Marshall to never rise up. Doc does have some WTF losses but he also got us back to competing and winning against P5's, something Snyder couldn't dream of. Every P5 we played under him was a blood bath.He is also playing in a much different conference than Snyder did, he could win every game now and not be given credit for much. Every P5 we played under Snyder was a blood bath. Fans get tired of that stuff.

So, then, what's your larger take on why fan enthusiasm at Marshall isn't running higher in the CUSA 3.0 era than previously?

Honestly, I know I may piss some of our conference brethren off, but there was no replacements that had name recognition out there. You can't replace ECU with ODU or Charlotte and expect it to be a wash. That was just an example and without naming other schools in our conference, I will leave it at that. Average fans that aren't following all of CFB saw these changes and wondered who the heck is that? Why was CUSA 2.0 exciting when we came in? is CUSA 3.0 just as exciting to an average fan? We on here, aren't average fans, we know who is who, how good they are and why we should care. Average Joe doesn't.

Would you, then, agree or disagree that Marshall's ambitions to attain a higher national profile ("prominence" is the word often used in the past) have been taken down a notch or two in the CUSA 3.0 era?

And.

To what degree has the profile of the typical Marshall fan changed, if at all, either in terms of the demographics or psychographics, that would have had some innate affect?

I would say it was taken back to the MAC days, but we lacked a Toledo, Ohio, Miami etc that became heated rivalries. That's my view when I look and compare how both conferences are viewed, and I am not speaking of today when talking about the MAC, I am talking about the crap version we left, the one we had to pay to go to a bowl, no tv dollars etc.

Typical Marshall fan.......someone in their 30s and above, that's what you see in the stadium on game day. New blood and generations don't get excited over sports like we did, they are a technology based generation that would rather watch it on the internet than walk a few blocks to see it in person. We aren't drawing in the younger fans, all they know is daddy talked about Pennington and Moss. The Cato years, attendance went up. I would argue that attendance went back to MAC average since the new version of CUSA began, and it took almost rolling through the conference in this version to get good attendance numbers. Our attendance #s in the beginning of CUSA 2.0 was good despite our crap performance, you can see in numbers a few seasons later what the effect of losing does to a base. Better question would be, what would our attendance have done if we had won and went to bowls in CUSA 2.0? Considering the support it was getting in the beginning..

(08-14-2019 12:40 PM)MonGNARch Wrote:  For my perception of ODU, the newness of football in 2009 paired with being in a conference with local and familiar rivals (and immediate winning), football was at an all-time high before the move to CUSA. Playing schools like W&M, JMU, Richmond, Delaware, Towson, and a handful of others provided familiarity from playing them in basketball and other sports plus the fact that they were all relatively local so many people had friends, siblings, teammates, parents, etc that attended those rival schools to make it feel personal. In basketball, we were going to the NCAA tournament every 4 years with a back to back CAA championships in 09/10 and 10/11. Basketball rivalries were what fueled ODU sports in my opinion, due to there not being football back in the day. Some of those schools mentioned plus George Mason, VCU, and other basketball only schools that were local and heated rivlaries were formed from history. I remember when football games were legit sell-outs and not what we called "sell-outs" from the last few seasons. I remember ODU basketball games where everyone, no matter the age, would be standing, yelling and chanting all game, with the student section rocking and loud from start to finish, and would stay to sing the alma mater.

I like being in CUSA because of the opportunities and exposure ODU has gotten, but the fan base has turned a bit apathetic in recent years. a 5-25 basketball season during our transition from CAA to CUSA really rocked the basketball fandom and while it has gotten better, the atmopshere I remember just isn't the same, save for a few high-stakes games or home NIT games. Football has struggled a bit since coming up and the newness has long worn off, plus many fans having to adjust or learn about schools halfway across the country, it's hard to create new rivlaries from scratch. I think the new stadium will help with fan involvement this year and the high of coming off an NCAA appearance should help basketball as well. But as a whole, things are not the same in my eyes (other Monarch faithful can back me up or bash me as they see fit) as it was back then.

But I would never want to go back to the CAA, especially nowadays

Yeah and the lackluster football performance the last few years haven't helped either I'm sure.

(08-14-2019 12:27 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:15 PM)_sturt_ Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 11:59 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  No, alone it doesn't, it was still a huge missed opportunity to continue building the fanbase and the program. Wrong leadership was in place who was content for Marshall to never rise up. Doc does have some WTF losses but he also got us back to competing and winning against P5's, something Snyder couldn't dream of. Every P5 we played under him was a blood bath.He is also playing in a much different conference than Snyder did, he could win every game now and not be given credit for much. Every P5 we played under Snyder was a blood bath. Fans get tired of that stuff.

So, then, what's your larger take on why fan enthusiasm at Marshall isn't running higher in the CUSA 3.0 era than previously?

Honestly, I know I may piss some of our conference brethren off, but there was no replacements that had name recognition out there. You can't replace ECU with ODU or Charlotte and expect it to be a wash. That was just an example and without naming other schools in our conference, I will leave it at that. Average fans that aren't following all of CFB saw these changes and wondered who the heck is that? Why was CUSA 2.0 exciting when we came in? is CUSA 3.0 just as exciting to an average fan? We on here, aren't average fans, we know who is who, how good they are and why we should care. Average Joe doesn't.

Maybe to a degree but not as much as you think. I looked up the weather for the 2015 ODU game because it was the lowest attended Marshall home game and Marshall had a 3-1 record coming into the game. Usually that means bad weather. I did not check the ECU games weather

2005 VS ECU 22,408
2007 VS ECU 26,718
2009 VS ECU 26,814
2011 vs ECU 22,456
2013 VS ECU 25,117

2015 VS ODU 18,473 (rain and cool, 50 degrees)
2017 vs ODU 26,097

Charlotte has been a 20k avg in 2 games including when Marshall was 2-4 heading into that game

One other thing you did not mention but gets brought up often..Marshall and S. Miss

Both ODU and UNCC have avg as much, if not more than Marshall vs S. Miss in the last 5 Marshall home games dating back to 2009. Other than 2011, Marshall vs S. Miss is around 20k

(08-14-2019 12:37 PM)_sturt_ Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:24 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 11:34 AM)_sturt_ Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 11:09 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  UAB football fan base has increased tremendously and will continue to do so given all of the recent success and new facilities. Meanwhile, the basketball fan base has seen a significant decrease over the last 5 years.

So, are these *new* football fans, or are these Tide and/or Tiger fans who find it okay to moonlight as UAB fans? Or something else? And why has the basketball fan base went downhill in your opinion... ie, specifically as compared b/t the CUSA 2.0 and CUSA 3.0 years?

Definitely new fans as indicated by the huge increase in season ticket sales. And if Bama and Aubie buys UAB Football season tickets that is fine by me! But no doubt we'll have those fans attending UAB games especially when the new stadium opens in 2021.

As for basketball, well the product has sucked and the rejuvenation of football has sucked some of the life out of the program. Attendance for basketball has been on a steady decline for years now. It has yet to be determine if UAB can have a viable and successful football and basketball program at the same time. We shall see.

And... from your perspective, it seems this all would have been the case whether or not UAB was competing within the CUSA 2.0 environment (ie, pre-AAC) or the 3.0 environment then?

I will say this, I think the days of fans paying to see a bad product regardless of school affiliation is going the way of cable TV. In 2017 UAB played Memphis at home. This game would have normally been a sellout but it drew only 4920 fans for the game. Memphis was 3-1 at the time and UAB was 4-3. This is just one example but from the Jerrod Haase era to now, attendance has decrease mainly because of the product and not necessarily the competition. When Auburn played at Bartow two years ago, although the game was a sellout it might as well had been an Auburn home game.

UAB has become a football school and basketball is now the program with outdated facilities and an uninterested fan base.

(08-14-2019 12:45 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:27 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:15 PM)_sturt_ Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 11:59 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  No, alone it doesn't, it was still a huge missed opportunity to continue building the fanbase and the program. Wrong leadership was in place who was content for Marshall to never rise up. Doc does have some WTF losses but he also got us back to competing and winning against P5's, something Snyder couldn't dream of. Every P5 we played under him was a blood bath.He is also playing in a much different conference than Snyder did, he could win every game now and not be given credit for much. Every P5 we played under Snyder was a blood bath. Fans get tired of that stuff.

So, then, what's your larger take on why fan enthusiasm at Marshall isn't running higher in the CUSA 3.0 era than previously?

Honestly, I know I may piss some of our conference brethren off, but there was no replacements that had name recognition out there. You can't replace ECU with ODU or Charlotte and expect it to be a wash. That was just an example and without naming other schools in our conference, I will leave it at that. Average fans that aren't following all of CFB saw these changes and wondered who the heck is that? Why was CUSA 2.0 exciting when we came in? is CUSA 3.0 just as exciting to an average fan? We on here, aren't average fans, we know who is who, how good they are and why we should care. Average Joe doesn't.

I think it's that and Doc's inability to win championships against teams people don't recognize.

His winning % against teams with a winning record is .300ish. He has an overall losing record when playing on the road. He's .500 on the road vs. G5. And has 1 title in 9 seasons. The pre-Christmas bowl wins just aren't doing it for people anymore.

He loses the games of consequence. The fan's patience is wearing thin.

Is that the fault of Doc or Marshall though? What is that percentage from say, 2013 to now? what was Bob's say the last couple of years? This is where I am different than a few fellow herd fans, I don't hold Doc's first couple of years against him, he needed time and recruiting to get his players in the system, not Snyder's players. How many conference brethren has Doc actually gotten to play, with winning records, that amounted to much? If we want a chance at a better coach, gonna have to pony up the $$$, how much would it take to draw a better HC than also can recruit?

(08-14-2019 01:09 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:27 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:15 PM)_sturt_ Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 11:59 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  No, alone it doesn't, it was still a huge missed opportunity to continue building the fanbase and the program. Wrong leadership was in place who was content for Marshall to never rise up. Doc does have some WTF losses but he also got us back to competing and winning against P5's, something Snyder couldn't dream of. Every P5 we played under him was a blood bath.He is also playing in a much different conference than Snyder did, he could win every game now and not be given credit for much. Every P5 we played under Snyder was a blood bath. Fans get tired of that stuff.

So, then, what's your larger take on why fan enthusiasm at Marshall isn't running higher in the CUSA 3.0 era than previously?

Honestly, I know I may piss some of our conference brethren off, but there was no replacements that had name recognition out there. You can't replace ECU with ODU or Charlotte and expect it to be a wash. That was just an example and without naming other schools in our conference, I will leave it at that. Average fans that aren't following all of CFB saw these changes and wondered who the heck is that? Why was CUSA 2.0 exciting when we came in? is CUSA 3.0 just as exciting to an average fan? We on here, aren't average fans, we know who is who, how good they are and why we should care. Average Joe doesn't.

Maybe to a degree but not as much as you think. I looked up the weather for the 2015 ODU game because it was the lowest attended Marshall home game and Marshall had a 3-1 record coming into the game. Usually that means bad weather. I did not check the ECU games weather

2005 VS ECU 22,408
2007 VS ECU 26,718
2009 VS ECU 26,814
2011 vs ECU 22,456
2013 VS ECU 25,117

2015 VS ODU 18,473 (rain and cool, 50 degrees)
2017 vs ODU 26,097

Charlotte has been a 20k avg in 2 games including when Marshall was 2-4 heading into that game

One other thing you did not mention but gets brought up often..Marshall and S. Miss

Both ODU and UNCC have avg as much, if not more than Marshall vs S. Miss in the last 5 Marshall home games dating back to 2009. Other than 2011, Marshall vs S. Miss is around 20k

I was at the 2005 ECU game, the season was already a lost cause, fans gave up. That season was also the first time we got a BCS program in the Joan, we had 25K show up for William and Mary and SMU, then 27K showed up for UAB, if I am not mistaken I believe that USM game was on a thursday or friday night. ECU was a saturday I think. I was also at the Kansas St. game, there was more excitement surrounding the schedule than had ever been before. A lot of could have beens imo.

(08-14-2019 11:32 AM)_sturt_ Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 09:58 AM)kevinwmsn Wrote:  I think the last realignment has messed up old rivalries and fan interest in conferences where there were a number of teams leaving and entering. I also think since the Bower days there have been a number of schools that have added FBS Div 1 football and that may have hurt Southern Miss football. I think Southern Miss is going to have a good year.

Not to put words in your mouth, but is that to say you think some people who otherwise would have been USM fans/supporters in the past are, now, fans of Troy or USA or other former FCS schools who moved up?

There's no doubt that the rise of schools like South Alabama, ULL, GSU, Ga Southern, Troy, UAB etc (and of course the internet/highlight films) affected Southern Miss.

Up until the early 00's, there was a good chance that if you lived in LA, MS, AL and you didn't sign with Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee or Florida State then you probably ended up signing with Southern Miss because you knew you would be playing these schools over the course of the next 4 years. Now days, in addition to USM, many of these kids are also sighing with Ole Miss, Mississipi State, WVU, Tulane, Baylor, Vandy, Kentucky, Memphis, Arkansas, Troy, South Alabama, LA, ULM, UAB, Cincy, Memphis etc.

(08-14-2019 01:15 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:45 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:27 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:15 PM)_sturt_ Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 11:59 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  No, alone it doesn't, it was still a huge missed opportunity to continue building the fanbase and the program. Wrong leadership was in place who was content for Marshall to never rise up. Doc does have some WTF losses but he also got us back to competing and winning against P5's, something Snyder couldn't dream of. Every P5 we played under him was a blood bath.He is also playing in a much different conference than Snyder did, he could win every game now and not be given credit for much. Every P5 we played under Snyder was a blood bath. Fans get tired of that stuff.

So, then, what's your larger take on why fan enthusiasm at Marshall isn't running higher in the CUSA 3.0 era than previously?

Honestly, I know I may piss some of our conference brethren off, but there was no replacements that had name recognition out there. You can't replace ECU with ODU or Charlotte and expect it to be a wash. That was just an example and without naming other schools in our conference, I will leave it at that. Average fans that aren't following all of CFB saw these changes and wondered who the heck is that? Why was CUSA 2.0 exciting when we came in? is CUSA 3.0 just as exciting to an average fan? We on here, aren't average fans, we know who is who, how good they are and why we should care. Average Joe doesn't.

I think it's that and Doc's inability to win championships against teams people don't recognize.

His winning % against teams with a winning record is .300ish. He has an overall losing record when playing on the road. He's .500 on the road vs. G5. And has 1 title in 9 seasons. The pre-Christmas bowl wins just aren't doing it for people anymore.

He loses the games of consequence. The fan's patience is wearing thin.

Is that the fault of Doc or Marshall though? What is that percentage from say, 2013 to now? what was Bob's say the last couple of years? This is where I am different than a few fellow herd fans, I don't hold Doc's first couple of years against him, he needed time and recruiting to get his players in the system, not Snyder's players. How many conference brethren has Doc actually gotten to play, with winning records, that amounted to much? If we want a chance at a better coach, gonna have to pony up the $$$, how much would it take to draw a better HC than also can recruit?

I'd say that's Doc's fault. You are what your record says you are as Bill Parcells famously said. And I wouldn't really blame Snyder players for the first few years of Doc's tenure. He almost beat WVU with Snyder guys, but we all know what happened there. The cupboard wasn't bare. Snyder had some good players, he just couldn't coach them.

As for money for a better coach. Doc makes $755,000. That ballpark should be plenty for a young up and comer. PJ Fleck made $800K at Western Michigan. Gus Malzahn made $850,000 at Arkansas State.

(08-14-2019 01:46 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 01:15 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:45 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:27 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:15 PM)_sturt_ Wrote:  So, then, what's your larger take on why fan enthusiasm at Marshall isn't running higher in the CUSA 3.0 era than previously?

Honestly, I know I may piss some of our conference brethren off, but there was no replacements that had name recognition out there. You can't replace ECU with ODU or Charlotte and expect it to be a wash. That was just an example and without naming other schools in our conference, I will leave it at that. Average fans that aren't following all of CFB saw these changes and wondered who the heck is that? Why was CUSA 2.0 exciting when we came in? is CUSA 3.0 just as exciting to an average fan? We on here, aren't average fans, we know who is who, how good they are and why we should care. Average Joe doesn't.

I think it's that and Doc's inability to win championships against teams people don't recognize.

His winning % against teams with a winning record is .300ish. He has an overall losing record when playing on the road. He's .500 on the road vs. G5. And has 1 title in 9 seasons. The pre-Christmas bowl wins just aren't doing it for people anymore.

He loses the games of consequence. The fan's patience is wearing thin.

Is that the fault of Doc or Marshall though? What is that percentage from say, 2013 to now? what was Bob's say the last couple of years? This is where I am different than a few fellow herd fans, I don't hold Doc's first couple of years against him, he needed time and recruiting to get his players in the system, not Snyder's players. How many conference brethren has Doc actually gotten to play, with winning records, that amounted to much? If we want a chance at a better coach, gonna have to pony up the $$$, how much would it take to draw a better HC than also can recruit?

I'd say that's Doc's fault. You are what your record says you are as Bill Parcells famously said. And I wouldn't really blame Snyder players for the first few years of Doc's tenure. He almost beat WVU with Snyder guys, but we all know what happened there. The cupboard wasn't bare. Snyder had some good players, he just couldn't coach them.

As for money for a better coach. Doc makes $755,000. That ballpark should be plenty for a young up and comer. PJ Fleck made $800K at Western Michigan. Gus Malzahn made $850,000 at Arkansas State.

Agree to disagree brother. He almost beat WVU with snyder recruits because he knew their playbook and they didn't change much of it after Doc left there. How did the rest of the season go? Pretty much the same as before, with snyder's recruits and influx of some talent during late recruiting. How long did it take to get the offense rolling, 2 years, 3 years for the defense, Doc had the team up and running by 2013. As far as money he makes, you realize who you just compared our finances to? It's actually sad considering we came to this conference with higher ambitions.

(08-14-2019 01:15 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:37 PM)_sturt_ Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:24 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 11:34 AM)_sturt_ Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 11:09 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  UAB football fan base has increased tremendously and will continue to do so given all of the recent success and new facilities. Meanwhile, the basketball fan base has seen a significant decrease over the last 5 years.

So, are these *new* football fans, or are these Tide and/or Tiger fans who find it okay to moonlight as UAB fans? Or something else? And why has the basketball fan base went downhill in your opinion... ie, specifically as compared b/t the CUSA 2.0 and CUSA 3.0 years?

Definitely new fans as indicated by the huge increase in season ticket sales. And if Bama and Aubie buys UAB Football season tickets that is fine by me! But no doubt we'll have those fans attending UAB games especially when the new stadium opens in 2021.

As for basketball, well the product has sucked and the rejuvenation of football has sucked some of the life out of the program. Attendance for basketball has been on a steady decline for years now. It has yet to be determine if UAB can have a viable and successful football and basketball program at the same time. We shall see.

And... from your perspective, it seems this all would have been the case whether or not UAB was competing within the CUSA 2.0 environment (ie, pre-AAC) or the 3.0 environment then?

I will say this, I think the days of fans paying to see a bad product regardless of school affiliation is going the way of cable TV. In 2017 UAB played Memphis at home. This game would have normally been a sellout but it drew only 4920 fans for the game. Memphis was 3-1 at the time and UAB was 4-3. This is just one example but from the Jerrod Haase era to now, attendance has decrease mainly because of the product and not necessarily the competition. When Auburn played at Bartow two years ago, although the game was a sellout it might as well had been an Auburn home game.

UAB has become a football school and basketball is now the program with outdated facilities and an uninterested fan base.

The good news is the fans can be re-engaged which is easier than building a base from scratch. It’s interesting to note a flip from bball to fball. It’s hard to be good at both at the P5 level let alone G5.

(08-14-2019 02:05 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 01:46 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 01:15 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:45 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:27 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  Honestly, I know I may piss some of our conference brethren off, but there was no replacements that had name recognition out there. You can't replace ECU with ODU or Charlotte and expect it to be a wash. That was just an example and without naming other schools in our conference, I will leave it at that. Average fans that aren't following all of CFB saw these changes and wondered who the heck is that? Why was CUSA 2.0 exciting when we came in? is CUSA 3.0 just as exciting to an average fan? We on here, aren't average fans, we know who is who, how good they are and why we should care. Average Joe doesn't.

I think it's that and Doc's inability to win championships against teams people don't recognize.

His winning % against teams with a winning record is .300ish. He has an overall losing record when playing on the road. He's .500 on the road vs. G5. And has 1 title in 9 seasons. The pre-Christmas bowl wins just aren't doing it for people anymore.

He loses the games of consequence. The fan's patience is wearing thin.

Is that the fault of Doc or Marshall though? What is that percentage from say, 2013 to now? what was Bob's say the last couple of years? This is where I am different than a few fellow herd fans, I don't hold Doc's first couple of years against him, he needed time and recruiting to get his players in the system, not Snyder's players. How many conference brethren has Doc actually gotten to play, with winning records, that amounted to much? If we want a chance at a better coach, gonna have to pony up the $$$, how much would it take to draw a better HC than also can recruit?

I'd say that's Doc's fault. You are what your record says you are as Bill Parcells famously said. And I wouldn't really blame Snyder players for the first few years of Doc's tenure. He almost beat WVU with Snyder guys, but we all know what happened there. The cupboard wasn't bare. Snyder had some good players, he just couldn't coach them.

As for money for a better coach. Doc makes $755,000. That ballpark should be plenty for a young up and comer. PJ Fleck made $800K at Western Michigan. Gus Malzahn made $850,000 at Arkansas State.

Agree to disagree brother. He almost beat WVU with snyder recruits because he knew their playbook and they didn't change much of it after Doc left there. How did the rest of the season go? Pretty much the same as before, with snyder's recruits and influx of some talent during late recruiting. How long did it take to get the offense rolling, 2 years, 3 years for the defense, Doc had the team up and running by 2013. As far as money he makes, you realize who you just compared our finances to? It's actually sad considering we came to this conference with higher ambitions.

Since 2013, he's 12-21 (.363) vs FBS teams that finish with winning records. If you only take G5 teams into account he's 11-16 (.407)

So even if you only look at the years with "his" players it's still the same.

(08-14-2019 02:21 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 02:05 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 01:46 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 01:15 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:45 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  I think it's that and Doc's inability to win championships against teams people don't recognize.

His winning % against teams with a winning record is .300ish. He has an overall losing record when playing on the road. He's .500 on the road vs. G5. And has 1 title in 9 seasons. The pre-Christmas bowl wins just aren't doing it for people anymore.

He loses the games of consequence. The fan's patience is wearing thin.

Is that the fault of Doc or Marshall though? What is that percentage from say, 2013 to now? what was Bob's say the last couple of years? This is where I am different than a few fellow herd fans, I don't hold Doc's first couple of years against him, he needed time and recruiting to get his players in the system, not Snyder's players. How many conference brethren has Doc actually gotten to play, with winning records, that amounted to much? If we want a chance at a better coach, gonna have to pony up the $$$, how much would it take to draw a better HC than also can recruit?

I'd say that's Doc's fault. You are what your record says you are as Bill Parcells famously said. And I wouldn't really blame Snyder players for the first few years of Doc's tenure. He almost beat WVU with Snyder guys, but we all know what happened there. The cupboard wasn't bare. Snyder had some good players, he just couldn't coach them.

As for money for a better coach. Doc makes $755,000. That ballpark should be plenty for a young up and comer. PJ Fleck made $800K at Western Michigan. Gus Malzahn made $850,000 at Arkansas State.

Agree to disagree brother. He almost beat WVU with snyder recruits because he knew their playbook and they didn't change much of it after Doc left there. How did the rest of the season go? Pretty much the same as before, with snyder's recruits and influx of some talent during late recruiting. How long did it take to get the offense rolling, 2 years, 3 years for the defense, Doc had the team up and running by 2013. As far as money he makes, you realize who you just compared our finances to? It's actually sad considering we came to this conference with higher ambitions.

Since 2013, he's 12-21 (.363) vs FBS teams that finish with winning records. If you only take G5 teams into account he's 11-16 (.407)

So even if you only look at the years with "his" players it's still the same.

Fair enough. I still say that if we want better, its going to take more money than we can currently offer.

(08-14-2019 01:30 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 01:09 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:27 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 12:15 PM)_sturt_ Wrote:  

(08-14-2019 11:59 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  No, alone it doesn't, it was still a huge missed opportunity to continue building the fanbase and the program. Wrong leadership was in place who was content for Marshall to never rise up. Doc does have some WTF losses but he also got us back to competing and winning against P5's, something Snyder couldn't dream of. Every P5 we played under him was a blood bath.He is also playing in a much different conference than Snyder did, he could win every game now and not be given credit for much. Every P5 we played under Snyder was a blood bath. Fans get tired of that stuff.

So, then, what's your larger take on why fan enthusiasm at Marshall isn't running higher in the CUSA 3.0 era than previously?

Honestly, I know I may piss some of our conference brethren off, but there was no replacements that had name recognition out there. You can't replace ECU with ODU or Charlotte and expect it to be a wash. That was just an example and without naming other schools in our conference, I will leave it at that. Average fans that aren't following all of CFB saw these changes and wondered who the heck is that? Why was CUSA 2.0 exciting when we came in? is CUSA 3.0 just as exciting to an average fan? We on here, aren't average fans, we know who is who, how good they are and why we should care. Average Joe doesn't.

Maybe to a degree but not as much as you think. I looked up the weather for the 2015 ODU game because it was the lowest attended Marshall home game and Marshall had a 3-1 record coming into the game. Usually that means bad weather. I did not check the ECU games weather

2005 VS ECU 22,408
2007 VS ECU 26,718
2009 VS ECU 26,814
2011 vs ECU 22,456
2013 VS ECU 25,117

2015 VS ODU 18,473 (rain and cool, 50 degrees)
2017 vs ODU 26,097

Charlotte has been a 20k avg in 2 games including when Marshall was 2-4 heading into that game

One other thing you did not mention but gets brought up often..Marshall and S. Miss

Both ODU and UNCC have avg as much, if not more than Marshall vs S. Miss in the last 5 Marshall home games dating back to 2009. Other than 2011, Marshall vs S. Miss is around 20k

I was at the 2005 ECU game, the season was already a lost cause, fans gave up. That season was also the first time we got a BCS program in the Joan, we had 25K show up for William and Mary and SMU, then 27K showed up for UAB, if I am not mistaken I believe that USM game was on a thursday or friday night. ECU was a saturday I think. I was also at the Kansas St. game, there was more excitement surrounding the schedule than had ever been before. A lot of could have beens imo.

That KSU game was on a Sunday iirc

(08-14-2019 10:24 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  Some, well, just about all of you are looking at the question as "supporting fan base". In my opinion there is a difference, in supporter, those that will buy a ticket, and "fan".

Attendance is not the true indicator, because the dip in fans attending, could be explained away from high dollar tickets. High cost of food at games, and if you want to see any game. You can sitting in your home, watch on a large screen, with a 50 yard line view.

So are those choosing to stay home watching games and not spending the money, not fans? To me there's a difference between supporter, those spending money on the program, and fans. It's expensive going to a football game and dollar night, or five dollar night with a hotdog, and coke for another $3...is not getting those fans that only come when its cheap, to come back at full price.

For a father and son to attendance a Western, football game on a full price ticket, it can cost the dad around $60, if they eat a hotdog and get a drink. A dad making $15 an hour (that would be a great working class job in BG) is spending 13% of his weekly take home pay and around 15% if he has a 401k (6%) to take his son or daughter to a football game.

Or sit at home watch a really clear picture, eat a $8 pizza, drinking a .50 cent coke, or $1 beer....

those are the 10 to 20% of a supporting fan base that we have lost. They are still fans but not willing to spend the money for a crappy seat and over priced food. Well, till it's dollar night, or when a SEC team they see on TV is playing the home team.

This hits home with me. I consider myself to be lower-middle class. I make a little less than a certified teacher here in Texas.

The cheapest ticket to a Rice Football game is $20. Parking is $5. By the time me and my son have eaten, and had a couple Cokes, my total is about $70. Given my income, that's a significant investment. I wish I could buy him something from the stadium store, but I just can't, and he understands.

I'd love to buy one season ticket, but there's no way that can happen. I have to pick and choose the games I want to attend, and that's usually three games a season. For example, I won't be at the Baylor, Texas, and Wake Forest games this year. Those tickets will cost a little more than the games against CUSA opponents, and there's also a good chance that we'll get crushed. I can make myself sit those out. It stinks, but that's reality. I'll be watching those games on television.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To answer the original question of this thread, Rice's fan base has dwindled down to nothing. Right now I'd describe our fans as "apathetic." More than anything, it's due to consistent losing in football and basketball, and a return to mediocrity in baseball.

Our football program will have one good season every three or four years. We sorely miss the SWC. We're the only school that hasn't gotten up off the mat since it's death. We also don't play in a conference that is regional enough for us, and one that lacks like-minded institutions like SMU, Tulsa, and Tulane.

In basketball, we have no history of success (one NCAA tournament), the best players keep transferring out, and the home schedule is weak every season. There's very little hope for things to change in this sport..

(08-13-2019 11:31 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  General downward trend around the country combined with growing apathy towards a consistently slightly above average to occasionally good but never great football program.

Yep. This. Add to that the MS SEC schools have been on an upturn and our old conference mates are all (except UAB) in better conferences now.