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Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
If there’s one school that really needs the AAC is East Carolina.

As an outsider, the way I view ECU is similar to the way I see Southern Miss. They were the first choice if the SEC, ACC and Big East schools didn’t recruit you. Now there’s plenty of nearby schools that sponsor FBS football. Old Dominion is now getting deals that ECU used to get like the long term series with Virginia Tech. If you’re West Virginia, you rather play Charlotte or ODU. They’re in bigger cities and offer more recruiting opportunities than playing in Greenville. Or even better play the U_F twins for Florida exposure.

ECU’s dream of going to a power conference ended when the Big East got demoted in late 2012 from BCS AQ to G5 in the new CFP era that started in 2014. It was Big East or bust for the Pirates since the 1990’s. No other power conference was going to invite them. Not the ACC. Not the SEC. They were more or less at a similar level with other independents before the Alliance and BCS era. Now most of those schools like South Carolina, Virginia Tech, Florida State, Miami, Louisville, West Virginia, Pitt, Rutgers and Syracuse are now in a power conference. To make things worse, newcomers like Boise State and UCF are having the success that ECU was supposed to have. Those BCS and NY6 bowls were supposed to have the Pirates in it not a school that used to be a community college in the Rockies or a school that once was in the MAC/A-Sun.

At least Southern Miss can still aspire to AAC membership. ECU? The AAC is their last stop unless something really bad happens to the ACC (very unlikely).
08-12-2019 06:55 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
(08-12-2019 06:49 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Unfortunately its hard to be creative when you cannot start a new conference with out an 8 year waiting period for automatic bids and you need to be in conference to have a shot at a NY6 bowl.

How much of a shot at the Consolation Bowl does UConn, or any CUSA/SB school, really have?
08-12-2019 06:59 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
(08-12-2019 06:25 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 12:00 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Yet ECU still throws money at their stadium. ECU is at their pinnacle. A P5 invite isn't happening.

If the stars aligned differently, ECU would have been in the Big East in the 90's or later. They never had (and still don't) have a chance at the ACC because of the saturation of schools in their state and neighboring states who are already there but they could have been in the Big East and carried their weight, including some on the field.

But they'd be like USF today, there would be no chair for them at that table in this game of musical chairs. No chance at a Big 10+4, a miracle chance at the Big 12, no chance (on multiple levels but for certain in the future, geography) at the Pac, a minor chance at the SEC (maybe they'd like to get into North Carolina) and if they ever get in the ACC, I'd assume Virginia, UNC, Duke and NCSU (or some combo) would be gone.

There's nothing wrong with this as an apex, they can still field nationally relevant programs at this level. 04-cheers

I agree but netting $6M a year from TV means you need to be frugal with your funds. The pictures above don't really help win games. It is fluff to make big donors and high level administrators feel important. Will they donate enough to pay for these upgrades? Very doubtful

The two best things a school can do to get better recruits: fill their stadium and build fancy dorms for the players.
08-12-2019 11:54 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
(08-12-2019 06:59 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 06:49 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Unfortunately its hard to be creative when you cannot start a new conference with out an 8 year waiting period for automatic bids and you need to be in conference to have a shot at a NY6 bowl.

How much of a shot at the Consolation Bowl does UConn, or any CUSA/SB school, really have?

You never want to limit yourself, plus auto bids in other sports are a big deal
08-13-2019 09:54 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
(08-12-2019 06:18 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  If the stars aligned differently, ECU would have been in the Big East in the 90's or later. They never had (and still don't) have a chance at the ACC because of the saturation of schools in their state and neighboring states who are already there but they could have been in the Big East and carried their weight, including some on the field.

How? Louisville, and arguably Cincinnati, were ahead of them even in 1990.

The aforementioned, plus USF and UCF, and even Temple were ahead of them in 2003.

Plus, UConn and Villanova had a green flag, so they were ahead of ECTTS too.
(This post was last modified: 08-13-2019 10:09 AM by esayem.)
08-13-2019 10:07 AM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
(08-13-2019 09:54 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 06:59 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 06:49 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Unfortunately its hard to be creative when you cannot start a new conference with out an 8 year waiting period for automatic bids and you need to be in conference to have a shot at a NY6 bowl.

How much of a shot at the Consolation Bowl does UConn, or any CUSA/SB school, really have?

You never want to limit yourself, plus auto bids in other sports are a big deal

Well, sure, it'd be great to have all options open at all times, but every decision you make (including the decision to remain in your current alignment) inherently imposes some other set of limits. Agreed on the auto-bids thing though, which is why I think a new-from-the-ground-up conference is unlikely. You'll see another independent or two before you see that.
08-13-2019 10:50 AM
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Post: #47
RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
(08-13-2019 10:07 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 06:18 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  If the stars aligned differently, ECU would have been in the Big East in the 90's or later. They never had (and still don't) have a chance at the ACC because of the saturation of schools in their state and neighboring states who are already there but they could have been in the Big East and carried their weight, including some on the field.

How? Louisville, and arguably Cincinnati, were ahead of them even in 1990.

The aforementioned, plus USF and UCF, and even Temple were ahead of them in 2003.

Plus, UConn and Villanova had a green flag, so they were ahead of ECTTS too.

ECU was never going to be admitted to the Big East as a full-member as long as the basketball schools were around.
08-13-2019 11:17 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
(08-13-2019 11:17 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(08-13-2019 10:07 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 06:18 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  If the stars aligned differently, ECU would have been in the Big East in the 90's or later. They never had (and still don't) have a chance at the ACC because of the saturation of schools in their state and neighboring states who are already there but they could have been in the Big East and carried their weight, including some on the field.

How? Louisville, and arguably Cincinnati, were ahead of them even in 1990.

The aforementioned, plus USF and UCF, and even Temple were ahead of them in 2003.

Plus, UConn and Villanova had a green flag, so they were ahead of ECTTS too.

ECU was never going to be admitted to the Big East as a full-member as long as the basketball schools were around.
Yup...fun fact: the basketball schools kept Penn State out back in the early 80s.
08-13-2019 11:26 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
(08-13-2019 10:50 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(08-13-2019 09:54 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 06:59 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 06:49 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Unfortunately its hard to be creative when you cannot start a new conference with out an 8 year waiting period for automatic bids and you need to be in conference to have a shot at a NY6 bowl.

How much of a shot at the Consolation Bowl does UConn, or any CUSA/SB school, really have?

You never want to limit yourself, plus auto bids in other sports are a big deal

Well, sure, it'd be great to have all options open at all times, but every decision you make (including the decision to remain in your current alignment) inherently imposes some other set of limits. Agreed on the auto-bids thing though, which is why I think a new-from-the-ground-up conference is unlikely. You'll see another independent or two before you see that.

I wouldnt mind seeing more schools do the BYU and UConn model. That would allow for greater regionalization for non football sports, thus allowing for more cosr savings and a greater investment in the nona P5 football programs
08-13-2019 11:31 AM
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Post: #50
RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
(08-12-2019 11:41 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 10:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Far be it from me to tell a UConn supporter what UConn is doing, but here goes ... I do not think UConn has 'cut football adrift' in the sense of leaving behind FBS or the ultimate dream of P5 membership. IMO, UConn remains fully dedicated to achieving P5 membership in the ACC or B1G, and that this move to the Big East is designed to advance towards that. It's one reason my delight as a Big East fan in having UConn back is not full-throated, we are not your destination conference.

Don't get me wrong, I'm more bullish on UConn's chances as an independent than most, but at the very minimum the move to the Big East signals a willingness on the part of the athletic department to let the chips fall where they may in football.

To be realistic, I can't see FBS football as an independent working for UConn. No on campus stadium, terrible state economy, huge deficits in UConn financials.

I know the NCAA rules about attendance is a joke (you can make up all the attendance numbers you want), but at the end of the day, the bills have to get paid. UConn doesn't own the Rent, they are just tenants.
08-13-2019 11:54 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
(08-12-2019 11:19 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  However, maybe some schools need to start thinking outside of the box with different setups. For instance, Gonzaga and BYU have financially outgrown the WCC, yet joining the MWC as non-football members isn't any more attractive (with less control and power in exchange for little, if any, financial gain). Could Gonzaga and BYU spearhead a western equivalent of the Big East instead? Maybe pitch schools such as Houston and UNLV with solid basketball brand names (plus schools like Boise State and Air Force that have football programs that could conceivably survive on their own) that creating a western equivalent of the Big East for basketball with independent football could yield a better financial return than staying in a G5 league as a full member. I'm not saying that this would actually end up being true or that's even viable, but the point is that the "Football is all that matters!" thinking for G5 schools needs to at least be reevaluated.

Houston is more east than west. Houston is a little more than 800 miles from Jacksonville on the Atlantic Ocean, but 1300 miles from San Diego on the Pacific Ocean. Houston is closer to every AAC school, and closer to Montreal for that matter, than it is to Gonzaga.

And that just points out the limitations on "creative" realignment ideas for schools in the west. The distances are large and the number of realistic conference partners for any school is much fewer than it is in the south, midwest, or northeast.
08-13-2019 12:27 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
(08-12-2019 11:33 AM)ColKurtz Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 10:06 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 08:55 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 08:12 AM)esayem Wrote:  Shame. The Purple Pirates might do well in the CAA or SoCon.

Whatever conference ECU were in, it appears they'd still own UNC on the field.

UNC is winning the all-time series 11-5.

I'm surprised ECU and UNC have only played 16 games.

Yes, if the UNC athletic department had its way they would have never played.
08-13-2019 12:33 PM
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Post: #53
RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
The AAC is the very best G5 place that ECU could be. I don’t know why anyone would think otherwise.
08-13-2019 12:43 PM
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Bogg Offline
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RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
(08-13-2019 11:54 AM)TheZoo Wrote:  To be realistic, I can't see FBS football as an independent working for UConn. No on campus stadium, terrible state economy, huge deficits in UConn financials.

I know the NCAA rules about attendance is a joke (you can make up all the attendance numbers you want), but at the end of the day, the bills have to get paid. UConn doesn't own the Rent, they are just tenants.

Well, AAC football certainly didn't work for UConn. There's a chance college football just doesn't work in the Northeast without huge TV subsidies, but it's a nearly certain bet that Big East basketball will work for UConn, which is the important thing.
08-13-2019 12:43 PM
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Post: #55
RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
(08-13-2019 10:07 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 06:18 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  If the stars aligned differently, ECU would have been in the Big East in the 90's or later. They never had (and still don't) have a chance at the ACC because of the saturation of schools in their state and neighboring states who are already there but they could have been in the Big East and carried their weight, including some on the field.

How? Louisville, and arguably Cincinnati, were ahead of them even in 1990.

The aforementioned, plus USF and UCF, and even Temple were ahead of them in 2003.

Plus, UConn and Villanova had a green flag, so they were ahead of ECTTS too.

Dude, this shows little knowledge. In 1990, Cincinnati hadn't been to a bowl game in 40 years. USF's program was 6 years old in 2003 and UCF was in their first year as a I-A school.

Ridiculous assertions. In 1992, ECU won the Peach Bowl and finished the season ranked 9th.
(This post was last modified: 08-13-2019 12:45 PM by NBPirate.)
08-13-2019 12:43 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
(08-13-2019 12:43 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  
(08-13-2019 10:07 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 06:18 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  If the stars aligned differently, ECU would have been in the Big East in the 90's or later. They never had (and still don't) have a chance at the ACC because of the saturation of schools in their state and neighboring states who are already there but they could have been in the Big East and carried their weight, including some on the field.

How? Louisville, and arguably Cincinnati, were ahead of them even in 1990.

The aforementioned, plus USF and UCF, and even Temple were ahead of them in 2003.

Plus, UConn and Villanova had a green flag, so they were ahead of ECTTS too.

Dude, this shows little knowledge. In 1990, Cincinnati hadn't been to a bowl game in 40 years. USF's program was 6 years old in 2003 and UCF was in their first year as a I-A school.

Ridiculous assertions. In 1992, ECU won the Peach Bowl and finished the season ranked 9th.

ECU committed to big time football before Cincy, USF, and UCF, and stayed committed unlike Temple, Tulane, and others.

The last members to "join the club" are Oklahoma State in 1957, Florida State in the late 1970's, and Louisville in the early 80's.

ECU, Cincy, USF, UCF, and UConn follow, just about in that order. Rice, SMU, Houston, and TCU were dumped out of the club in 1996. Temple was dumped in 2001.

If football were all that mattered, ECU is rightfully in line next.

But football is not all that matters. ECU has no basketball program. You can not sustain a successful football program at ECU because you are in direct recruiting competition with NC State, UNC, Wake, Duke, UVa, VT, SC, and Clemson within your own media market.

Most of UNC's ptb would rather take a spiked catheter than play ECU. Have of NC State's ptb feel like they must play ECU or they have not had a football season while the other half would rather take that spiked catheter. As such it creates political tensions.

ECU, when led by the visionary/savant Chancellor Leo Jenkins, could have put their own man on the damn moon. He brought a medical school to Greenville over UNC-Ch objection - he stabilized the economy of Eastern NC around ECU. But he is dead now. And those that followed him are just not him.

Academic gentrification at ECU has been going on the last 25 years. Yes, when it was East Carolina Teacher's College, it was not hitting on much. It has made great strides, but like West Virginia, still looks after home grown kids and gives them a chance. The distance they have made up with UNC-Ch bothers the people at UNC-Ch, but ECU can't fully catch up because they can't bridge a 150 year head start. Here's the difference between ECU and UNC now when it comes to what really matters - professional programs. UNC is taking top kids from around the world and limiting NC students. ECU has yet to take a med student not from the State of NC.

If you aren't from NC and especially not from eastern NC, you don't necessarily know the current political situation at ECU, the Medical School, the relationship with UNC, the UNC Board of Governors, and the NC General Assembly. It's as ****** up as it has ever been. As such, the ptb in Greenville have to prioritize the Med School and the Dental School and the Public Health program over football right now.
(This post was last modified: 08-13-2019 01:08 PM by Statefan.)
08-13-2019 12:58 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
(08-13-2019 12:27 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Houston is more east than west. Houston is a little more than 800 miles from Jacksonville on the Atlantic Ocean, but 1300 miles from San Diego on the Pacific Ocean. Houston is closer to every AAC school, and closer to Montreal for that matter, than it is to Gonzaga.

But culturally, Houston is much more west than east. E.g., Houston is closer on the map to Memphis than it is to El Paso, but culturally, both are 10-gallon-hat, cattle, and oil wells "Texas". Memphis is culturally a thousand miles from that.

Houston, Tulsa, and SMU are culturally dissimilar by a large margin from the other AAC schools. They are all culturally Cowboy/Western schools. There is a Gulf Coast/Bayou affinity between Houston and New Orleans, but that's about it.
(This post was last modified: 08-13-2019 01:04 PM by quo vadis.)
08-13-2019 01:03 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
(08-13-2019 12:43 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  
(08-13-2019 10:07 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 06:18 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  If the stars aligned differently, ECU would have been in the Big East in the 90's or later. They never had (and still don't) have a chance at the ACC because of the saturation of schools in their state and neighboring states who are already there but they could have been in the Big East and carried their weight, including some on the field.

How? Louisville, and arguably Cincinnati, were ahead of them even in 1990.

The aforementioned, plus USF and UCF, and even Temple were ahead of them in 2003.

Plus, UConn and Villanova had a green flag, so they were ahead of ECTTS too.

Dude, this shows little knowledge. In 1990, Cincinnati hadn't been to a bowl game in 40 years. USF's program was 6 years old in 2003 and UCF was in their first year as a I-A school.

Ridiculous assertions. In 1992, ECU won the Peach Bowl and finished the season ranked 9th.

Cincinnati got in over ECU because it had better basketball tradition, better academics and is located in a better media market than ECU. No doubt UC football was dormant for many years, but there was a belief that they could turn around its football program with the right investment given the passion for football in the city of Cincinnati/state of Ohio and the fertile recruiting territory. That belief panned out to be correct.

Heck, Memphis has a claim over ECU for many of the same reasons- biggest difference between UC and Memphis was that it was further away from the northeast and its academic ranking were/still are lower than UC.
08-13-2019 01:10 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
(08-13-2019 12:43 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  
(08-13-2019 10:07 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 06:18 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  If the stars aligned differently, ECU would have been in the Big East in the 90's or later. They never had (and still don't) have a chance at the ACC because of the saturation of schools in their state and neighboring states who are already there but they could have been in the Big East and carried their weight, including some on the field.

How? Louisville, and arguably Cincinnati, were ahead of them even in 1990.

The aforementioned, plus USF and UCF, and even Temple were ahead of them in 2003.

Plus, UConn and Villanova had a green flag, so they were ahead of ECTTS too.

Dude, this shows little knowledge. In 1990, Cincinnati hadn't been to a bowl game in 40 years. USF's program was 6 years old in 2003 and UCF was in their first year as a I-A school.

Ridiculous assertions. In 1992, ECU won the Peach Bowl and finished the season ranked 9th.

In 2003, Louisville, Cincinnati, and USF joined the Big East. The only other football playing options listed in the Big East meetings were UCF and readmitting Temple.

In the mid-90’s, UConn and Villanova were given a golden ticket. UConn cashed theirs in. UConn had talked about joining 1-A as early as the Big East announced a football conference; they would have been chosen over ECU.

1990 is you best argument, but I haven’t seen anything about ECU being on any shortlist, in fact, the only reason they were in the room as the 16th team for the Metro mega-supersized conference is because Penn State withdrew.

I’m pretty sure Louisville and Cincinnati were both surveyed by the Big East for football-only membership, ECU may have been too, but I still think Louisville was in the best position.
08-13-2019 01:16 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Gerlach: Leaving AAC not an option (for ECU)
(08-13-2019 01:16 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(08-13-2019 12:43 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  
(08-13-2019 10:07 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 06:18 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  If the stars aligned differently, ECU would have been in the Big East in the 90's or later. They never had (and still don't) have a chance at the ACC because of the saturation of schools in their state and neighboring states who are already there but they could have been in the Big East and carried their weight, including some on the field.

How? Louisville, and arguably Cincinnati, were ahead of them even in 1990.

The aforementioned, plus USF and UCF, and even Temple were ahead of them in 2003.

Plus, UConn and Villanova had a green flag, so they were ahead of ECTTS too.

Dude, this shows little knowledge. In 1990, Cincinnati hadn't been to a bowl game in 40 years. USF's program was 6 years old in 2003 and UCF was in their first year as a I-A school.

Ridiculous assertions. In 1992, ECU won the Peach Bowl and finished the season ranked 9th.

In 2003, Louisville, Cincinnati, and USF joined the Big East. The only other football playing options listed in the Big East meetings were UCF and readmitting Temple.

In the mid-90’s, UConn and Villanova were given a golden ticket. UConn cashed theirs in. UConn had talked about joining 1-A as early as the Big East announced a football conference; they would have been chosen over ECU.

1990 is you best argument, but I haven’t seen anything about ECU being on any shortlist, in fact, the only reason they were in the room as the 16th team for the Metro mega-supersized conference is because Penn State withdrew.

I’m pretty sure Louisville and Cincinnati were both surveyed by the Big East for football-only membership, ECU may have been too, but I still think Louisville was in the best position.

This. ECU didn't even make the initial cut for Conference USA. The conference began play in 1995, ECU joined as football only in 1997. The weren't in as a full sports member until 2001.
08-13-2019 01:18 PM
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