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Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
(08-12-2019 07:31 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 11:53 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  If you look at the entire New Jersey Athletic Conference, it doesn't look like a DIII conference:


Institution Nickname Founded Type Enrollment Joined Football

Montclair State University Red Hawks 1908 Public 16,660 1985 Yes
New Jersey City University Gothic Knights 1929 Public 7,300 1985 No
Ramapo College Roadrunners 1969 Public 5,233 1985 No
Rutgers University–Newark Scarlet Raiders 1945 Public 10,500 1985 No
William Paterson University Pioneers 1855 Public 10,970 1985 Yes
S
College of New Jersey Lions 1855 Public 6,800 1985 Yes
Kean University Cougars 1855 Public 15,000 1985 Yes
Rowan University Profs 1923 Public 18,500 1985 Yes
Rutgers University–Camden Scarlet Raptors 1950 Public 5,450 1985 No
Stockton University Ospreys 1969 Public 7,450 1985 No

What about it makes you say that?

Enrollments - more in line with a higher division
08-12-2019 07:33 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #62
RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
Here me out—I am by no means supporting or advocating DIII to DI but maybe the NCAA should consider a path for schools with an enrollment of 10k or 15k+?
08-12-2019 07:59 PM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
(08-12-2019 09:13 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 08:47 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  I grew up in PA an hour and a half from their campus, and hadn't heard of them, nor did anyone from my High School go there (but we had several UD, Rutgers, Suny schools, etc)

Same, and maybe because it went through a couple of names in the 90's, from Glassboro State to Rowan College to then Rowan University. Same goes for TCNJ/Trenton State. Heck, the first time I heard of TCNJ, it was at a soccer game, and I wondered what this random NJ school was (because I never heard of them). To find out it was a rebranded Trenton State.

I only know about these schools because my UG used to play them back in the 90's and eventually was in the conference for a few years.
08-12-2019 08:11 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
(08-12-2019 07:14 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 11:53 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  If you look at the entire New Jersey Athletic Conference, it doesn't look like a DIII conference:


Institution Nickname Founded Type Enrollment Joined Football

Montclair State University Red Hawks 1908 Public 16,660 1985 Yes
New Jersey City University Gothic Knights 1929 Public 7,300 1985 No
Ramapo College Roadrunners 1969 Public 5,233 1985 No
Rutgers University–Newark Scarlet Raiders 1945 Public 10,500 1985 No
William Paterson University Pioneers 1855 Public 10,970 1985 Yes
S
College of New Jersey Lions 1855 Public 6,800 1985 Yes
Kean University Cougars 1855 Public 15,000 1985 Yes
Rowan University Profs 1923 Public 18,500 1985 Yes
Rutgers University–Camden Scarlet Raptors 1950 Public 5,450 1985 No
Stockton University Ospreys 1969 Public 7,450 1985 No

I guess the question becomes how do they shape up to NJIT. Even though they've struggled with their D1 identity, I bet NJIT has a much better name recognition than any of those other schools, though that may not all be because of athletics.


Rowan won A D3 men's basketball title. Rowan have football and could be a future CAA member. Rowan have room to grow their athletics that NJIT do not. Rowan is in the Philly tv market which I do not think CAA have a member in. Rowan have more success at winning titles in several sports.
08-12-2019 08:14 PM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
(08-12-2019 07:59 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Here me out—I am by no means supporting or advocating DIII to DI but maybe the NCAA should consider a path for schools with an enrollment of 10k or 15k+?

The NCAA should have divisions like high school based on enrollment of a single campus, since you can inflate the number with online and multiple campuses.
08-12-2019 08:14 PM
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RutgersMike Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
I posted in the Rowan thread about this and New Jersey politics will never let this happen. The Rowan people that I known for years have never expressed any interest in upgrading to D-1AA much less D-1A. They don’t have the money to spare for scholarship athletics. They recently upgraded from college to university status. They won’t have a destination conference to join and the South Jersey recruiting base is dominated by Rutgers, Penn State, Temple, Villanova and Delaware.
08-12-2019 08:18 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #67
RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
(08-12-2019 08:14 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 07:59 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Here me out—I am by no means supporting or advocating DIII to DI but maybe the NCAA should consider a path for schools with an enrollment of 10k or 15k+?

The NCAA should have divisions like high school based on enrollment of a single campus, since you can inflate the number with online and multiple campuses.

It just seems a little unfair for schools with huge enrollments to slum it in lower divisions where most of their “peers” have a tenth of their enrollment or less.
08-12-2019 08:19 PM
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Shox Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
(08-12-2019 08:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 07:14 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 11:53 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  If you look at the entire New Jersey Athletic Conference, it doesn't look like a DIII conference:


Institution Nickname Founded Type Enrollment Joined Football

Montclair State University Red Hawks 1908 Public 16,660 1985 Yes
New Jersey City University Gothic Knights 1929 Public 7,300 1985 No
Ramapo College Roadrunners 1969 Public 5,233 1985 No
Rutgers University–Newark Scarlet Raiders 1945 Public 10,500 1985 No
William Paterson University Pioneers 1855 Public 10,970 1985 Yes
S
College of New Jersey Lions 1855 Public 6,800 1985 Yes
Kean University Cougars 1855 Public 15,000 1985 Yes
Rowan University Profs 1923 Public 18,500 1985 Yes
Rutgers University–Camden Scarlet Raptors 1950 Public 5,450 1985 No
Stockton University Ospreys 1969 Public 7,450 1985 No

I guess the question becomes how do they shape up to NJIT. Even though they've struggled with their D1 identity, I bet NJIT has a much better name recognition than any of those other schools, though that may not all be because of athletics.


Rowan won A D3 men's basketball title. Rowan have football and could be a future CAA member. Rowan have room to grow their athletics that NJIT do not. Rowan is in the Philly tv market which I do not think CAA have a member in. Rowan have more success at winning titles in several sports.

Your right, there is plenty of room for another DI program in philly!
08-12-2019 10:44 PM
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TDenverFan Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
(08-12-2019 08:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 07:14 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 11:53 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  If you look at the entire New Jersey Athletic Conference, it doesn't look like a DIII conference:


Institution Nickname Founded Type Enrollment Joined Football

Montclair State University Red Hawks 1908 Public 16,660 1985 Yes
New Jersey City University Gothic Knights 1929 Public 7,300 1985 No
Ramapo College Roadrunners 1969 Public 5,233 1985 No
Rutgers University–Newark Scarlet Raiders 1945 Public 10,500 1985 No
William Paterson University Pioneers 1855 Public 10,970 1985 Yes
S
College of New Jersey Lions 1855 Public 6,800 1985 Yes
Kean University Cougars 1855 Public 15,000 1985 Yes
Rowan University Profs 1923 Public 18,500 1985 Yes
Rutgers University–Camden Scarlet Raptors 1950 Public 5,450 1985 No
Stockton University Ospreys 1969 Public 7,450 1985 No

I guess the question becomes how do they shape up to NJIT. Even though they've struggled with their D1 identity, I bet NJIT has a much better name recognition than any of those other schools, though that may not all be because of athletics.


Rowan won A D3 men's basketball title. Rowan have football and could be a future CAA member. Rowan have room to grow their athletics that NJIT do not. Rowan is in the Philly tv market which I do not think CAA have a member in. Rowan have more success at winning titles in several sports.

Nova and Drexel cover Philly for the CAA. CAA would not want a D3 call-up.
08-13-2019 12:27 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
(08-12-2019 08:18 PM)RutgersMike Wrote:  I posted in the Rowan thread about this and New Jersey politics will never let this happen.

Do you think so? I would think Rowan might be the most able of the other state schools to get that push, given they got a piece of the UMDNJ breakup that allowed Rutgers to get its medical programs, and how it merged some of the community colleges into feeder campuses. They've pivoted from the other NJ state schools enough that it seems they're doing something. Not D1 something, but maybe D2 into something like CACC, ECC, or even PSAC. Pacing themselves like NJIT.

The one that probably can't do anything if it wanted to despite its reputation is TCNJ, but they deliberately cut their enrollment to sustain their selectivity, and aren't swelling like others in the state. I agree, though, overall about NJ politics with non-D1 NJ public schools. It sounds like those schools have added pressures NJIT and Rutgers don't.
(This post was last modified: 08-13-2019 04:15 AM by The Cutter of Bish.)
08-13-2019 04:13 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
(08-12-2019 10:44 PM)Shox Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 08:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 07:14 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 11:53 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  If you look at the entire New Jersey Athletic Conference, it doesn't look like a DIII conference:


Institution Nickname Founded Type Enrollment Joined Football

Montclair State University Red Hawks 1908 Public 16,660 1985 Yes
New Jersey City University Gothic Knights 1929 Public 7,300 1985 No
Ramapo College Roadrunners 1969 Public 5,233 1985 No
Rutgers University–Newark Scarlet Raiders 1945 Public 10,500 1985 No
William Paterson University Pioneers 1855 Public 10,970 1985 Yes
S
College of New Jersey Lions 1855 Public 6,800 1985 Yes
Kean University Cougars 1855 Public 15,000 1985 Yes
Rowan University Profs 1923 Public 18,500 1985 Yes
Rutgers University–Camden Scarlet Raptors 1950 Public 5,450 1985 No
Stockton University Ospreys 1969 Public 7,450 1985 No

I guess the question becomes how do they shape up to NJIT. Even though they've struggled with their D1 identity, I bet NJIT has a much better name recognition than any of those other schools, though that may not all be because of athletics.


Rowan won A D3 men's basketball title. Rowan have football and could be a future CAA member. Rowan have room to grow their athletics that NJIT do not. Rowan is in the Philly tv market which I do not think CAA have a member in. Rowan have more success at winning titles in several sports.

Your right, there is plenty of room for another DI program in philly!

Some more stellar research by Professor Davey.
08-13-2019 07:23 AM
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HawkeyeCoug Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
Here are the recent enrollments for BYU-Idaho:

Winter 2017: 18,065
Fall 2017: 19,399
Winter 2018: 18,689
Spring 2018: 20,246
Fall 2018: 20,226
Winter 2019: 19,235
Spring 2019: 20,388

about 3/4 of these are on-campus.

When it was a Junior College, it had an extremely successful athletics program. If they bring back sports, they have the ability to transition rapidly from Div 3 to Div 1.

The local community really wants sports to be brought back. I think with some more leadership changes in the church, athletics will be brought back. For comparison, Div 3 SVU has an enrollment of ~1,000 and sponsors 24 sports. There is certainly a demand, and it will eventually be met.
08-13-2019 09:05 PM
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RutgersMike Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
(08-13-2019 04:13 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(08-12-2019 08:18 PM)RutgersMike Wrote:  I posted in the Rowan thread about this and New Jersey politics will never let this happen.

Do you think so? I would think Rowan might be the most able of the other state schools to get that push, given they got a piece of the UMDNJ breakup that allowed Rutgers to get its medical programs, and how it merged some of the community colleges into feeder campuses. They've pivoted from the other NJ state schools enough that it seems they're doing something. Not D1 something, but maybe D2 into something like CACC, ECC, or even PSAC. Pacing themselves like NJIT.

The one that probably can't do anything if it wanted to despite its reputation is TCNJ, but they deliberately cut their enrollment to sustain their selectivity, and aren't swelling like others in the state. I agree, though, overall about NJ politics with non-D1 NJ public schools. It sounds like those schools have added pressures NJIT and Rutgers don't.

I just can’t imagine Governor Murphy giving anything to South Jersey Democratic machine headed by Sweeney and Norcross.
08-14-2019 04:50 PM
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Post: #74
RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
St. Thomas straight to D1? I just don't know if Charlotte Amalie Harbor can handle the kind of traffic having game days there would have. Do they have a venue capable there? It would be a great add for a "made for TV" bowl though ... that's about the best location you can think of that doesn't require a passport to get to in December.
08-14-2019 05:37 PM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
(08-13-2019 09:05 PM)HawkeyeCoug Wrote:  Here are the recent enrollments for BYU-Idaho:

Winter 2017: 18,065
Fall 2017: 19,399
Winter 2018: 18,689
Spring 2018: 20,246
Fall 2018: 20,226
Winter 2019: 19,235
Spring 2019: 20,388

about 3/4 of these are on-campus.

When it was a Junior College, it had an extremely successful athletics program. If they bring back sports, they have the ability to transition rapidly from Div 3 to Div 1.

The local community really wants sports to be brought back. I think with some more leadership changes in the church, athletics will be brought back. For comparison, Div 3 SVU has an enrollment of ~1,000 and sponsors 24 sports. There is certainly a demand, and it will eventually be met.

I doubt it. The first move BYU made was to cut Ricks athletics programs, and now dropping BYU-H athletics for "space" reasons doesn't bode well for future athletics at either place. But there is no reason Idaho couldn't have a highly successful D2 program on a very small budget, just with the talent already attending.
08-15-2019 04:57 AM
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bluesox Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
BYU- Idaho problem is that it’s called BYU-Idaho. Maybe they should change their name to Joseph Smith university and join the WCC and BYU rejoin the MWC
08-15-2019 09:17 AM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #77
RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
Does BYU Idaho have its own accreditation or is it accredited as part of a BYU system? It seems odd to have a sister campus just one state away from the denomination’s flagship school. Is the Idaho campus where kids go if they can’t get into Provo straight out of high school?
08-15-2019 10:49 AM
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TardisCaptain Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
(08-15-2019 10:49 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Does BYU Idaho have its own accreditation or is it accredited as part of a BYU system? It seems odd to have a sister campus just one state away from the denomination’s flagship school. Is the Idaho campus where kids go if they can’t get into Provo straight out of high school?

IIRC those who are not deemed lucky enough to get into BYU on the first try go to Utah Valley University and hope to transfer over later.
08-15-2019 05:35 PM
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teamvsn Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
(08-15-2019 10:49 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Does BYU Idaho have its own accreditation or is it accredited as part of a BYU system? It seems odd to have a sister campus just one state away from the denomination’s flagship school. Is the Idaho campus where kids go if they can’t get into Provo straight out of high school?

Own accreditation:

http://www.byui.edu/executive-strategy-a...reditation
08-15-2019 06:24 PM
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Todor Offline
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RE: Fasttracking St. Thomas straight from D3 to D1?
(08-15-2019 10:49 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Does BYU Idaho have its own accreditation or is it accredited as part of a BYU system? It seems odd to have a sister campus just one state away from the denomination’s flagship school. Is the Idaho campus where kids go if they can’t get into Provo straight out of high school?

A Mormon juco called Ricks College became part of BYU and started offering Bachelor degrees about 15-20 years ago, so the location was out of convenience, not by design. But Idaho is the second highest percent Mormon.
08-15-2019 11:40 PM
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