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Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
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CliftonAve Online
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Post: #61
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 04:24 PM)scoscox Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 02:57 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  In these types of breakdowns, I feel like the truth is somewhere in the middle: Big East supporters seem to underestimate the drop in football revenue, but AAC supporters seem to underestimate the increase in basketball revenue. UConn isn't going to receive the conference distributions for the CFP and other bowls, which is a significant amount that the Big East-biased OP link glosses over. Those guaranteed annual amounts are almost certainly going to be lower and more variable.

At the same time, though, it drives me up the wall when AAC fans try to compare their new football/basketball TV contract with ESPN to the basketball TV contract with Fox because they're simply not the same. When it comes to basketball revenue, UConn is going to straight up make more money for that particular sport and, on a relative basis, the Big East TV contract for basketball is on par with what the Power Five conferences would assign as the basketball value of their TV contracts.

I keep racking my brain to think of the best analogy, but it's like comparing what's a more valuable housing market. Greenwich, CT has higher median home values than Manhattan, but that doesn't mean that real estate is more valuable in Greenwich per se. That median home in Greenwich is going to be a mansion with a lot of land and space, whereas the median home in Manhattan is a fairly small apartment/condo/co-op with no land at all. Manhattan has a much higher price per square foot, which means that a piece of real estate in that is the size of the median Greenwich home is going to be worth much more in Manhattan. By the same token, a condo in Greenwich is going to be less than the same-sized condo in Manhattan. Yet, Greenwich has a larger inventory of large-sized properties, so that drives the median home price upwards. So, is Greenwich or Manhattan the more valuable real estate market?

In this case, Greenwich = AAC and Manhattan = Big East. The AAC might be getting more overall TV money, but that's also because it's selling additional inventory in the form of football. In contrast, the Big East is getting a significantly higher price for what it's specifically selling (basketball) compared to the AAC.

(I'll grant that this is analogy is one of the weaker ones that I've come up with over the years, but it's hard to get across the concept of where you can have a total bundle package being sold by Company A being priced higher than a competing Company B with the smaller package, but the specific composition of Company B's smaller package is worth more compared to the corresponding sub-component of Company A's larger package. Too many people just look at $X > $Y and then don't break it down to an apples-to-apples comparison.)

As a result, the breakeven point for the UConn athletic department overall doesn't require its football program to replace the entire amount that it would have received from the AAC for football. UConn's basketball revenue is going to be higher just based on the Big East distributions for that sport alone (once again not mixing in the apples-to-oranges comparison of the football/basketball distributions of the AAC), much less any increases from ticket sales and donations at the individual school level. With that in mind, its football program doesn't *have* to make as much as it did in the AAC in order for the UConn athletic department to be better off.

A few uc fans tried arguing with me that their media deal is much better than ours and it’s dumbfounding. There’s just no way to refute the strength of that delusion. I’m not sure if they really believe it and just don’t understand how much more money is budgeted for football or they just don’t want to give me the win as a xavier fan

XU isn't getting SNY money on top of the BE media deal.

I would add that most UC fans aren't saying they make more money on their media deal, its the total revenue from the conference for the media deal, bowl money, CFP playoff money, etc.

FWIW UC fans are not as happy about the revenue in this media deal as fans of the other schools in the conference. We (along with USF) are going to be basically flat from what were making from 2013-2018
while everyone else will be getting a decent pay raise. When you consider what we were making in the Big East, then from 2013-2018, and then go another 12 years out we will have nearly 20 years of no increase in revenue from media while 99% of the schools in the FBS will have had substantial increases.

That all being said UC does not have much choice in the matter. It is what it is.
08-09-2019 08:57 AM
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RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
One point this whole discussion misses.... The new AAC contract is more exposure than the Big East contract.

Sure, AAC schools will have to pay to produce dozens of games in non-revenue sports for ESPN+. But that's because they're guaranteed dozens of games on ESPN+. That's exposure that the Big East contract simply doesn't provide.

When Butler was in the Horizon, they streamed their non-ESPN games on the Horizon League's website. Cincinnati currently streams all softball and baseball games on a 3rd party website, and Cincinnati pays the production costs. Butler and Cincinnati paid for those production costs because it was worth it for the exposure. But a lot more people will watch if it's on ESPN+ than some nameless website.

The whole purpose of college sports is to advertise the school. Any school in the country would gladly pay $1 million for 50 2-hour specials broadcasting live from their campus to anyone with ESPN+.
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2019 09:34 AM by Captain Bearcat.)
08-09-2019 09:21 AM
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Post: #63
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
Another thing:

if UConn thinks they'll be able to get their football games on ESPN+ without paying production costs, they're delusional. The MAC (According to this link) also has to pay their own production costs

Even after paying production costs, the MAC only gets $670k per school for all sports. And they only get that much because they play football on Tuesday and Wednesday nights. Is UConn football on Saturday worth more than Buffalo football on Wednesday? The MAC, C-USA, and Sun Belt all rejected UConn as football-only, so I'm doubtful.
08-09-2019 09:26 AM
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Post: #64
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-09-2019 09:26 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Another thing:

if UConn thinks they'll be able to get their football games on ESPN+ without paying production costs, they're delusional. The MAC (According to this link) also has to pay their own production costs

Even after paying production costs, the MAC only gets $670k per school for all sports. And they only get that much because they play football on Tuesday and Wednesday nights. Is UConn football on Saturday worth more than Buffalo football on Wednesday? The MAC, C-USA, and Sun Belt all rejected UConn as football-only, so I'm doubtful.

Is this referencing something I've missed? Everything I've read assumes a straight TV deal with SNY, possibly with involvement by Fox as well. I haven't read anything about UConn trying to sell content directly to ESPN+.
08-09-2019 09:47 AM
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scoscox Online
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Post: #65
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-09-2019 09:21 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  One point this whole discussion misses.... The new AAC contract is more exposure than the Big East contract.

Sure, AAC schools will have to pay to produce dozens of games in non-revenue sports for ESPN+. But that's because they're guaranteed dozens of games on ESPN+. That's exposure that the Big East contract simply doesn't provide.

When Butler was in the Horizon, they streamed their non-ESPN games on the Horizon League's website. Cincinnati currently streams all softball and baseball games on a 3rd party website, and Cincinnati pays the production costs. Butler and Cincinnati paid for those production costs because it was worth it for the exposure. But a lot more people will watch if it's on ESPN+ than some nameless website.

The whole purpose of college sports is to advertise the school. Any school in the country would gladly pay $1 million for 50 2-hour specials broadcasting live from their campus to anyone with ESPN+.

This makes no sense. Espn+ has like 2 million subscribers. Having all your games on espn+ is horrific for exposure. The big east gets all of their games on national tv. See Clifton this is the kind of delusion I’m talking about.
08-09-2019 09:50 AM
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Post: #66
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-09-2019 08:57 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 04:24 PM)scoscox Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 02:57 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  In these types of breakdowns, I feel like the truth is somewhere in the middle: Big East supporters seem to underestimate the drop in football revenue, but AAC supporters seem to underestimate the increase in basketball revenue. UConn isn't going to receive the conference distributions for the CFP and other bowls, which is a significant amount that the Big East-biased OP link glosses over. Those guaranteed annual amounts are almost certainly going to be lower and more variable.

At the same time, though, it drives me up the wall when AAC fans try to compare their new football/basketball TV contract with ESPN to the basketball TV contract with Fox because they're simply not the same. When it comes to basketball revenue, UConn is going to straight up make more money for that particular sport and, on a relative basis, the Big East TV contract for basketball is on par with what the Power Five conferences would assign as the basketball value of their TV contracts.

I keep racking my brain to think of the best analogy, but it's like comparing what's a more valuable housing market. Greenwich, CT has higher median home values than Manhattan, but that doesn't mean that real estate is more valuable in Greenwich per se. That median home in Greenwich is going to be a mansion with a lot of land and space, whereas the median home in Manhattan is a fairly small apartment/condo/co-op with no land at all. Manhattan has a much higher price per square foot, which means that a piece of real estate in that is the size of the median Greenwich home is going to be worth much more in Manhattan. By the same token, a condo in Greenwich is going to be less than the same-sized condo in Manhattan. Yet, Greenwich has a larger inventory of large-sized properties, so that drives the median home price upwards. So, is Greenwich or Manhattan the more valuable real estate market?

In this case, Greenwich = AAC and Manhattan = Big East. The AAC might be getting more overall TV money, but that's also because it's selling additional inventory in the form of football. In contrast, the Big East is getting a significantly higher price for what it's specifically selling (basketball) compared to the AAC.

(I'll grant that this is analogy is one of the weaker ones that I've come up with over the years, but it's hard to get across the concept of where you can have a total bundle package being sold by Company A being priced higher than a competing Company B with the smaller package, but the specific composition of Company B's smaller package is worth more compared to the corresponding sub-component of Company A's larger package. Too many people just look at $X > $Y and then don't break it down to an apples-to-apples comparison.)

As a result, the breakeven point for the UConn athletic department overall doesn't require its football program to replace the entire amount that it would have received from the AAC for football. UConn's basketball revenue is going to be higher just based on the Big East distributions for that sport alone (once again not mixing in the apples-to-oranges comparison of the football/basketball distributions of the AAC), much less any increases from ticket sales and donations at the individual school level. With that in mind, its football program doesn't *have* to make as much as it did in the AAC in order for the UConn athletic department to be better off.

A few uc fans tried arguing with me that their media deal is much better than ours and it’s dumbfounding. There’s just no way to refute the strength of that delusion. I’m not sure if they really believe it and just don’t understand how much more money is budgeted for football or they just don’t want to give me the win as a xavier fan

XU isn't getting SNY money on top of the BE media deal.

I would add that most UC fans aren't saying they make more money on their media deal, its the total revenue from the conference for the media deal, bowl money, CFP playoff money, etc.

FWIW UC fans are not as happy about the revenue in this media deal as fans of the other schools in the conference. We (along with USF) are going to be basically flat from what were making from 2013-2018
while everyone else will be getting a decent pay raise. When you consider what we were making in the Big East, then from 2013-2018, and then go another 12 years out we will have nearly 20 years of no increase in revenue from media while 99% of the schools in the FBS will have had substantial increases.

That all being said UC does not have much choice in the matter. It is what it is.

So with the new deal, UC will optimistically make 10 million on the high side in a good year. Xavier will make 5-6 million optimistically. Obviously Xavier doesn’t have football though and doesn’t have the expenses that go with that which are significantly higher than basketball. For what Xavier is trying to do, our media deal is much better than UCs is for what it’s trying to do and it’s really not even close. You can just look at the athletic department deficits and see the disparity. On top of that fox broadcasts all our games on their main network and obviously the aac will be relegated to espn+ a lot.
08-09-2019 09:59 AM
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Post: #67
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-09-2019 09:21 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  One point this whole discussion misses.... The new AAC contract is more exposure than the Big East contract.

Sure, AAC schools will have to pay to produce dozens of games in non-revenue sports for ESPN+. But that's because they're guaranteed dozens of games on ESPN+. That's exposure that the Big East contract simply doesn't provide.

When Butler was in the Horizon, they streamed their non-ESPN games on the Horizon League's website. Cincinnati currently streams all softball and baseball games on a 3rd party website, and Cincinnati pays the production costs. Butler and Cincinnati paid for those production costs because it was worth it for the exposure. But a lot more people will watch if it's on ESPN+ than some nameless website.

The whole purpose of college sports is to advertise the school. Any school in the country would gladly pay $1 million for 50 2-hour specials broadcasting live from their campus to anyone with ESPN+.

Another comment about TV exposure:

The average Big East school has more basketball exposure than the average AAC school. But UConn was the "feature" team in the AAC a lot more often than it will be in the Big East. The Big East 2 games on Fox every Saturday after football season. What % of those will be UConn? They're among equals in the Big East.

Let's look at coverage of regular season conference games last year:
Georgetown: 3 Networks (CBS or FOX), 9 FS1, 3 CBSSports, 2 regional FSN
St. John's: 4 Networks (CBS or FOX), 11 FS1, 3 CBS Sports, 1 regional FSN
Butler: 2 Networks (FOX), 10 FS1, 3 CBS Sports, 3 regional FSN
UConn: 2 ESPN, 3 ESPN2, 5 ESPNU/ESPNews, 8 CBS Sports

Georgetown & St. John's had better coverage than UConn, but UConn had slightly better coverage than Butler. UConn's brand is probably more similar to Georgetown, but Georgetown was a much better team than UConn last year. Overall, edge to the Big East.

Let's compare the 2 conference kings last year:
Villanova: 7 Networks (CBS or FOX), 9 FS1, 2 CBS Sports
Cincinnati: 2 CBS, 3 ESPN, 6 ESPN2, 2 ESPNews, 5 CBS Sports

Again, the Big East had better exposure. But it wasn't that much different.
08-09-2019 10:10 AM
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CliftonAve Online
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Post: #68
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-09-2019 09:50 AM)scoscox Wrote:  
(08-09-2019 09:21 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  One point this whole discussion misses.... The new AAC contract is more exposure than the Big East contract.

Sure, AAC schools will have to pay to produce dozens of games in non-revenue sports for ESPN+. But that's because they're guaranteed dozens of games on ESPN+. That's exposure that the Big East contract simply doesn't provide.

When Butler was in the Horizon, they streamed their non-ESPN games on the Horizon League's website. Cincinnati currently streams all softball and baseball games on a 3rd party website, and Cincinnati pays the production costs. Butler and Cincinnati paid for those production costs because it was worth it for the exposure. But a lot more people will watch if it's on ESPN+ than some nameless website.

The whole purpose of college sports is to advertise the school. Any school in the country would gladly pay $1 million for 50 2-hour specials broadcasting live from their campus to anyone with ESPN+.

This makes no sense. Espn+ has like 2 million subscribers. Having all your games on espn+ is horrific for exposure. The big east gets all of their games on national tv. See Clifton this is the kind of delusion I’m talking about.

I don't think the AAC+ is going to be big of a problem for Cincinnati as people think. First of all, its not as if all of our games will only be available on ESPN-- we're talking about maybe 1-2 football games a year and a hand full of basketball games. Those game will be the variety that were previously regulated to ESPN 3 (games against FCS opponents in FB or the early season buy games against some low major college with a 200 RPI).

As for ESPN+, my guess is there will be significantly more subscribers within the next year or two and definitely further down the road (especially in light of Disney's recent announcement of a plan to bundle HULU+Disney+ESPN+ for $12.99). Also consider the Big 12 will be moving content there as well.
08-09-2019 10:18 AM
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Post: #69
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-09-2019 08:46 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(08-09-2019 08:31 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  It's impossible to "keep pace" when the race already concluded (i.e. Power Five consolidating from the Power Six, picking the best of the rest to maximize value).

Yeah, and you can't fault UConn for taking an opportunity to be a part of the basketball power structure. Anyone not in the P5, if the Big East really wanted them, would have done the same thing.. And, ironically, were it Houston or Cincinnati, would it really be a death sentence for football the same way people think it to be for UConn?

But, it's not like this is going to be a total reprieve for UConn. Power basketball has rising operating costs, as well. It used to be most basketball programs ran in the black. Now, with expanding and more costly staffing, and the recruitment game, UConn's going to get more money for its basketball, but it's likely to spend more, too.

I suppose there’s no definitive way to prove or disprove this statement. However, I find it highly doubtful that ALL outside the P5 would bite ...assuming the option is BE bball and Indy fball. Let’s not forget UCONN’s preference (according to reports at the time) was to keep fball in the AAC. No doubt, this would’ve been the best of both worlds in terms of both money and exposure.

I follow Memphis more closely than other schools and, as such, am more familiar with their stated objectives and philosophies from admin to athletics. The national platform AAC fball has given the university has resulted in at least one major gift to date...mostly for academics. I don’t think it’s going out on a limb to say the Tigers could not negotiate a fball media deal for as much money and with the OTA exposure they have enjoyed the last couple of seasons. On the basketball side, the university has proven it can be nationally relevant in multiple conferences under multiple coaches. With that in mind, it’s hard to imagine a scenario where BE bball/Indy fball makes sense from both an exposure and financial standpoint and remain aligned with the stated objectives of admin. The subject of Indy fball has come up over the years and the official response has always been conference affiliation is necessary. No doubt, buy games could keep it afloat, but is that thriving or just surviving? The stated goal is to get as many home games as possible for gate $...something multiple buy games makes difficult.

*Please note the I’m not saying AAC>BE bball b/c it isn’t. However, I do think the program can be successful ($ wise) and nationally relevant in the AAC. Crowds will pack the Forum, and the program will be supported as long as there is hope that a good product is coming regardless of conference affiliation.
08-09-2019 10:19 AM
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RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
Yea I’d say the AAC schools wouldn’t join especially with their new media deal, but for anyone else outside the American id imagine they’d take it. The big east deal pays atleast 3 million more than any non power 5 or aac deal and that’s just for basketball. Would you move your football to independent to make 3 times more money? Interesting question but obviously a hypothetical as the big east isn’t about to expand
08-09-2019 10:29 AM
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RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-09-2019 10:10 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(08-09-2019 09:21 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  One point this whole discussion misses.... The new AAC contract is more exposure than the Big East contract.

Sure, AAC schools will have to pay to produce dozens of games in non-revenue sports for ESPN+. But that's because they're guaranteed dozens of games on ESPN+. That's exposure that the Big East contract simply doesn't provide.

When Butler was in the Horizon, they streamed their non-ESPN games on the Horizon League's website. Cincinnati currently streams all softball and baseball games on a 3rd party website, and Cincinnati pays the production costs. Butler and Cincinnati paid for those production costs because it was worth it for the exposure. But a lot more people will watch if it's on ESPN+ than some nameless website.

The whole purpose of college sports is to advertise the school. Any school in the country would gladly pay $1 million for 50 2-hour specials broadcasting live from their campus to anyone with ESPN+.

Another comment about TV exposure:

The average Big East school has more basketball exposure than the average AAC school. But UConn was the "feature" team in the AAC a lot more often than it will be in the Big East. The Big East 2 games on Fox every Saturday after football season. What % of those will be UConn? They're among equals in the Big East.

Let's look at coverage of regular season conference games last year:
Georgetown: 3 Networks (CBS or FOX), 9 FS1, 3 CBSSports, 2 regional FSN
St. John's: 4 Networks (CBS or FOX), 11 FS1, 3 CBS Sports, 1 regional FSN
Butler: 2 Networks (FOX), 10 FS1, 3 CBS Sports, 3 regional FSN
UConn: 2 ESPN, 3 ESPN2, 5 ESPNU/ESPNews, 8 CBS Sports

Georgetown & St. John's had better coverage than UConn, but UConn had slightly better coverage than Butler. UConn's brand is probably more similar to Georgetown, but Georgetown was a much better team than UConn last year. Overall, edge to the Big East.

Let's compare the 2 conference kings last year:
Villanova: 7 Networks (CBS or FOX), 9 FS1, 2 CBS Sports
Cincinnati: 2 CBS, 3 ESPN, 6 ESPN2, 2 ESPNews, 5 CBS Sports

Again, the Big East had better exposure. But it wasn't that much different.

How do you figure UConn had better coverage than butler or that uc had similar coverage as Villanova?
08-09-2019 10:33 AM
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RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-09-2019 10:19 AM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  
(08-09-2019 08:46 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(08-09-2019 08:31 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  It's impossible to "keep pace" when the race already concluded (i.e. Power Five consolidating from the Power Six, picking the best of the rest to maximize value).

Yeah, and you can't fault UConn for taking an opportunity to be a part of the basketball power structure. Anyone not in the P5, if the Big East really wanted them, would have done the same thing.. And, ironically, were it Houston or Cincinnati, would it really be a death sentence for football the same way people think it to be for UConn?

But, it's not like this is going to be a total reprieve for UConn. Power basketball has rising operating costs, as well. It used to be most basketball programs ran in the black. Now, with expanding and more costly staffing, and the recruitment game, UConn's going to get more money for its basketball, but it's likely to spend more, too.

I suppose there’s no definitive way to prove or disprove this statement. However, I find it highly doubtful that ALL outside the P5 would bite ...assuming the option is BE bball and Indy fball. Let’s not forget UCONN’s preference (according to reports at the time) was to keep fball in the AAC. No doubt, this would’ve been the best of both worlds in terms of both money and exposure.

I follow Memphis more closely than other schools and, as such, am more familiar with their stated objectives and philosophies from admin to athletics. The national platform AAC fball has given the university has resulted in at least one major gift to date...mostly for academics. I don’t think it’s going out on a limb to say the Tigers could not negotiate a fball media deal for as much money and with the OTA exposure they have enjoyed the last couple of seasons. On the basketball side, the university has proven it can be nationally relevant in multiple conferences under multiple coaches. With that in mind, it’s hard to imagine a scenario where BE bball/Indy fball makes sense from both an exposure and financial standpoint and remain aligned with the stated objectives of admin. The subject of Indy fball has come up over the years and the official response has always been conference affiliation is necessary. No doubt, buy games could keep it afloat, but is that thriving or just surviving? The stated goal is to get as many home games as possible for gate $...something multiple buy games makes difficult.

*Please note the I’m not saying AAC>BE bball b/c it isn’t. However, I do think the program can be successful ($ wise) and nationally relevant in the AAC. Crowds will pack the Forum, and the program will be supported as long as there is hope that a good product is coming regardless of conference affiliation.

Oh, no doubt UConn would want that benefit of affiliate membership. And, we shouldn't forget that UConn didn't come along for the ride when the C7 split, and do indy sooner. I don't know how it went down, or if UConn had an offer then. However, they are maneuvering along the course that gives them the best financial return that's available to them for their primary program (and I imagine they're working the phones with other conferences about football affiliation). But, if they chose to pass on the Big East when it first split, they did so getting a favorable share of exit money. They didn't choose to exit until that share structure ran out. They left, but reportedly wanted to keep football in the AAC. Indy football is likely a suicide mission, but it sounds like they may not have a problem sacking body baggers, and they may be able to take the SNY deal and convert it for football.

And it's not a jab at the AAC that anyone else would take up the Big East offer. The AAC is a great conference. But, a stable place of schools who want to be there for the long haul? That stability piece is where the Big East and other majors can hold it over others. And, maybe it forces the conversation about why schools got into the football business to begin with, or why conference affiliation needs to hinge on all-sports membership for some and not others. UConn football isn't good and doesn't have much legacy, but I think others in the AAC could probably do quite well for themselves on their own, or readily find affiliate membership for football if they had the Big East invite. As good or better than everything in the AAC? Perhaps not, but, again, not bad off, either, and equitable in other ways. The mirage that schools needed football to keep up. Count me as one who thinks it wouldn't be the worst thing if UConn did drop football down a level or entirely. I wish there were more Big East-types in hoops so others could focus on basketball, like they did at one time, and not fudge up their athletic departments with resource-killing football.
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2019 11:23 AM by The Cutter of Bish.)
08-09-2019 10:47 AM
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RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-09-2019 08:46 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(08-09-2019 08:31 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  It's impossible to "keep pace" when the race already concluded (i.e. Power Five consolidating from the Power Six, picking the best of the rest to maximize value).

Yeah, and you can't fault UConn for taking an opportunity to be a part of the basketball power structure. Anyone not in the P5, if the Big East really wanted them, would have done the same thing. And, ironically, were it Houston or Cincinnati, would it really be a death sentence for football the same way people think it to be for UConn?

But, it's not like this is going to be a total reprieve for UConn. Power basketball has rising operating costs, as well. It used to be most basketball programs ran in the black. Now, with expanding and more costly staffing, and the recruitment game, UConn's going to get more money for its basketball, but it's likely to spend more, too.

This is a unique opportunity that makes sense for UCONN. None of the other AAC members, including Temple (not that the NBE would ever invite Temple), would have chosen the path that UConn has. The further geographically from the Northeast an AAC member is located the more insane joining the Big East becomes despite the fact that Big East men's basketball > AAC men’s basketball and the conference is presumably more stable. If I’m the AD at Houston and I propose to the president that we go independent in football and join the BE for all other sports I better make sure my LinkedIn profile is up-to-date because I’ll be about to be starting a job search.
08-09-2019 11:27 AM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-09-2019 10:19 AM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  
(08-09-2019 08:46 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(08-09-2019 08:31 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  It's impossible to "keep pace" when the race already concluded (i.e. Power Five consolidating from the Power Six, picking the best of the rest to maximize value).

Yeah, and you can't fault UConn for taking an opportunity to be a part of the basketball power structure. Anyone not in the P5, if the Big East really wanted them, would have done the same thing.. And, ironically, were it Houston or Cincinnati, would it really be a death sentence for football the same way people think it to be for UConn?

But, it's not like this is going to be a total reprieve for UConn. Power basketball has rising operating costs, as well. It used to be most basketball programs ran in the black. Now, with expanding and more costly staffing, and the recruitment game, UConn's going to get more money for its basketball, but it's likely to spend more, too.

I suppose there’s no definitive way to prove or disprove this statement. However, I find it highly doubtful that ALL outside the P5 would bite ...assuming the option is BE bball and Indy fball. Let’s not forget UCONN’s preference (according to reports at the time) was to keep fball in the AAC. No doubt, this would’ve been the best of both worlds in terms of both money and exposure.

I follow Memphis more closely than other schools and, as such, am more familiar with their stated objectives and philosophies from admin to athletics. The national platform AAC fball has given the university has resulted in at least one major gift to date...mostly for academics. I don’t think it’s going out on a limb to say the Tigers could not negotiate a fball media deal for as much money and with the OTA exposure they have enjoyed the last couple of seasons. On the basketball side, the university has proven it can be nationally relevant in multiple conferences under multiple coaches. With that in mind, it’s hard to imagine a scenario where BE bball/Indy fball makes sense from both an exposure and financial standpoint and remain aligned with the stated objectives of admin. The subject of Indy fball has come up over the years and the official response has always been conference affiliation is necessary. No doubt, buy games could keep it afloat, but is that thriving or just surviving? The stated goal is to get as many home games as possible for gate $...something multiple buy games makes difficult.

*Please note the I’m not saying AAC>BE bball b/c it isn’t. However, I do think the program can be successful ($ wise) and nationally relevant in the AAC. Crowds will pack the Forum, and the program will be supported as long as there is hope that a good product is coming regardless of conference affiliation.

Also worth noting that the geography of the AAC, specifically the Western wing of the AAC, is much better for Memphis than the conference geography could ever be for UConn. Also, there's a real opportunity there for Memphis-Houston to turn into one of college sports genuine rivalries, while Memphis would be a pretty notable outlier in the Big East.
08-09-2019 11:44 AM
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TheZoo Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
Don't know if they go FCS or drop football, but staying FBS doesn't sound realistic.
08-09-2019 12:11 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-09-2019 08:57 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 04:24 PM)scoscox Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 02:57 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  In these types of breakdowns, I feel like the truth is somewhere in the middle: Big East supporters seem to underestimate the drop in football revenue, but AAC supporters seem to underestimate the increase in basketball revenue. UConn isn't going to receive the conference distributions for the CFP and other bowls, which is a significant amount that the Big East-biased OP link glosses over. Those guaranteed annual amounts are almost certainly going to be lower and more variable.

At the same time, though, it drives me up the wall when AAC fans try to compare their new football/basketball TV contract with ESPN to the basketball TV contract with Fox because they're simply not the same. When it comes to basketball revenue, UConn is going to straight up make more money for that particular sport and, on a relative basis, the Big East TV contract for basketball is on par with what the Power Five conferences would assign as the basketball value of their TV contracts.

I keep racking my brain to think of the best analogy, but it's like comparing what's a more valuable housing market. Greenwich, CT has higher median home values than Manhattan, but that doesn't mean that real estate is more valuable in Greenwich per se. That median home in Greenwich is going to be a mansion with a lot of land and space, whereas the median home in Manhattan is a fairly small apartment/condo/co-op with no land at all. Manhattan has a much higher price per square foot, which means that a piece of real estate in that is the size of the median Greenwich home is going to be worth much more in Manhattan. By the same token, a condo in Greenwich is going to be less than the same-sized condo in Manhattan. Yet, Greenwich has a larger inventory of large-sized properties, so that drives the median home price upwards. So, is Greenwich or Manhattan the more valuable real estate market?

In this case, Greenwich = AAC and Manhattan = Big East. The AAC might be getting more overall TV money, but that's also because it's selling additional inventory in the form of football. In contrast, the Big East is getting a significantly higher price for what it's specifically selling (basketball) compared to the AAC.

(I'll grant that this is analogy is one of the weaker ones that I've come up with over the years, but it's hard to get across the concept of where you can have a total bundle package being sold by Company A being priced higher than a competing Company B with the smaller package, but the specific composition of Company B's smaller package is worth more compared to the corresponding sub-component of Company A's larger package. Too many people just look at $X > $Y and then don't break it down to an apples-to-apples comparison.)

As a result, the breakeven point for the UConn athletic department overall doesn't require its football program to replace the entire amount that it would have received from the AAC for football. UConn's basketball revenue is going to be higher just based on the Big East distributions for that sport alone (once again not mixing in the apples-to-oranges comparison of the football/basketball distributions of the AAC), much less any increases from ticket sales and donations at the individual school level. With that in mind, its football program doesn't *have* to make as much as it did in the AAC in order for the UConn athletic department to be better off.

A few uc fans tried arguing with me that their media deal is much better than ours and it’s dumbfounding. There’s just no way to refute the strength of that delusion. I’m not sure if they really believe it and just don’t understand how much more money is budgeted for football or they just don’t want to give me the win as a xavier fan

XU isn't getting SNY money on top of the BE media deal.

I would add that most UC fans aren't saying they make more money on their media deal, its the total revenue from the conference for the media deal, bowl money, CFP playoff money, etc.

FWIW UC fans are not as happy about the revenue in this media deal as fans of the other schools in the conference. We (along with USF) are going to be basically flat from what were making from 2013-2018
while everyone else will be getting a decent pay raise. When you consider what we were making in the Big East, then from 2013-2018, and then go another 12 years out we will have nearly 20 years of no increase in revenue from media while 99% of the schools in the FBS will have had substantial increases.

That all being said UC does not have much choice in the matter. It is what it is.

And what you have said speaks to the following truth: the C-USA call-ups in 2013 (Houston, Memphis, SMU, UCF - and, later, Tulsa, Tulane, ECU) gained more value, exposure and recognition by the association with UConn, Cincinnati and USF; conversely, those three programs saw their value, exposure and recognition dip from their association with those schools.

In the long-run, and in order to protect that value - and given the rights the C7/original members had at the time, would it have been better (in retrospect) to dissolve the original Big East (thus sending all of the exit fees back to the original member), have the new Big East still be a non-football league (C7 plus Cincinnati, UConn, USF) and allow the three football programs to create a new football-only league? It would not have been a power league by any stretch, and still would have had its AQ removed, but it would have protected their Olympic sports by maintaining the relationships and associations with Big East programs, and then they could have formed an Independent alliance with a number of programs.
08-09-2019 12:13 PM
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templefootballfan Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
I always wondered myself why Fox paid more for BE BB
With out FB schools
Part of problem was BB schools wanted full share
The money did not make sence
08-09-2019 01:27 PM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-09-2019 09:47 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(08-09-2019 09:26 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Another thing:

if UConn thinks they'll be able to get their football games on ESPN+ without paying production costs, they're delusional. The MAC (According to this link) also has to pay their own production costs

Even after paying production costs, the MAC only gets $670k per school for all sports. And they only get that much because they play football on Tuesday and Wednesday nights. Is UConn football on Saturday worth more than Buffalo football on Wednesday? The MAC, C-USA, and Sun Belt all rejected UConn as football-only, so I'm doubtful.



Is this referencing something I've missed? Everything I've read assumes a straight TV deal with SNY, possibly with involvement by Fox as well. I haven't read anything about UConn trying to sell content directly to ESPN+.

I'm pretty certain that I read elsewhere that Fox owns all of the rights for Big East Women's Basketball and possibly Olympic sports. They could certainly sublicense the UConn women's games to SNY, but the money would flow through the conference and not go directly to UConn.

UConn obviously can sell football to SNY, and I'm sure SNY will be very interested. SNY competes for clearance in the Connecticut TV market with YES, MSG, NESN and NBC Sports Boston. Any premium UConn sports content is going to improve fan demand for SNY clearance by local cable companies

(08-09-2019 10:47 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Oh, no doubt UConn would want that benefit of affiliate membership. And, we shouldn't forget that UConn didn't come along for the ride when the C7 split, and do indy sooner. I don't know how it went down, or if UConn had an offer then. However, they are maneuvering along the course that gives them the best financial return that's available to them for their primary program (and I imagine they're working the phones with other conferences about football affiliation). But, if they chose to pass on the Big East when it first split, they did so getting a favorable share of exit money. They didn't choose to exit until that share structure ran out. They left, but reportedly wanted to keep football in the AAC. Indy football is likely a suicide mission, but it sounds like they may not have a problem sacking body baggers, and they may be able to take the SNY deal and convert it for football.

And it's not a jab at the AAC that anyone else would take up the Big East offer. The AAC is a great conference. But, a stable place of schools who want to be there for the long haul? That stability piece is where the Big East and other majors can hold it over others. And, maybe it forces the conversation about why schools got into the football business to begin with, or why conference affiliation needs to hinge on all-sports membership for some and not others. UConn football isn't good and doesn't have much legacy, but I think others in the AAC could probably do quite well for themselves on their own, or readily find affiliate membership for football if they had the Big East invite. As good or better than everything in the AAC? Perhaps not, but, again, not bad off, either, and equitable in other ways. The mirage that schools needed football to keep up. Count me as one who thinks it wouldn't be the worst thing if UConn did drop football down a level or entirely. I wish there were more Big East-types in hoops so others could focus on basketball, like they did at one time, and not fudge up their athletic departments with resource-killing football.

UConn was offered the opportunity to join the New Big East at formation. They elected not to in large part because of the large exit fee and NCAA Basketball Fund balance that the AAC was keeping. It's certainly not clear whether they could have negotiated a football only deal with the AAC, although they would have had some leverage to do so if they walked away from their share of the exit fee money.
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2019 02:32 PM by orangefan.)
08-09-2019 02:19 PM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 07:47 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I’m having a difficult time believing that people still think UConn is making a bad move here. No, they very clearly are not. This is a smart move by the Huskies. This will save their basketball program – which is really all they really care about.

Assuming that's all they care about then they absolutely made not just a good move but a great move. The questions are going to be can they do well enough in Indy football financially to not make this crippling on that end, or will they have the stomach to drop to FCS or cut the sport entirely? Those are impossible to answer currently, but from a basketball perspective they have locked in that they will be in a "power" basketball conference most likely regardless of future realignment outcomes. The AAC is a good basketball conference, with inherent instability because that could be raided into a not good basketball conference if things broke wrong. I'm obviously on the extremely pessimistic side of UCONN's FBS football future, but I could certainly be wrong and they find a way to make this work.
08-09-2019 02:30 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
UConn football was not competitive in the AAC and had no conference rivals. They had to invent rivalry games like the COnFLict to try to make the AAC schedule relevant to its fan base and recruits.

Now, they will have potential real rivalries with UMass, Liberty, and Army, in which they actually might be competitive. Plus, a good helping of future games with mediocre Big Ten and ACC opponents and nearby Boston College. It's better to be 6-6 against a mediocre independent schedule than 2-10 in the AAC.

It's a home run if the Big East helps UConn basketball get back in the spotlight.
08-09-2019 02:48 PM
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