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Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
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Post: #21
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 02:57 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  In these types of breakdowns, I feel like the truth is somewhere in the middle: Big East supporters seem to underestimate the drop in football revenue, but AAC supporters seem to underestimate the increase in basketball revenue. UConn isn't going to receive the conference distributions for the CFP and other bowls, which is a significant amount that the Big East-biased OP link glosses over. Those guaranteed annual amounts are almost certainly going to be lower and more variable.

At the same time, though, it drives me up the wall when AAC fans try to compare their new football/basketball TV contract with ESPN to the basketball TV contract with Fox because they're simply not the same. When it comes to basketball revenue, UConn is going to straight up make more money for that particular sport and, on a relative basis, the Big East TV contract for basketball is on par with what the Power Five conferences would assign as the basketball value of their TV contracts.

I keep racking my brain to think of the best analogy, but it's like comparing what's a more valuable housing market. Greenwich, CT has higher median home values than Manhattan, but that doesn't mean that real estate is more valuable in Greenwich per se. That median home in Greenwich is going to be a mansion with a lot of land and space, whereas the median home in Manhattan is a fairly small apartment/condo/co-op with no land at all. Manhattan has a much higher price per square foot, which means that a piece of real estate in that is the size of the median Greenwich home is going to be worth much more in Manhattan. By the same token, a condo in Greenwich is going to be less than the same-sized condo in Manhattan. Yet, Greenwich has a larger inventory of large-sized properties, so that drives the median home price upwards. So, is Greenwich or Manhattan the more valuable real estate market?

In this case, Greenwich = AAC and Manhattan = Big East. The AAC might be getting more overall TV money, but that's also because it's selling additional inventory in the form of football. In contrast, the Big East is getting a significantly higher price for what it's specifically selling (basketball) compared to the AAC.

(I'll grant that this is analogy is one of the weaker ones that I've come up with over the years, but it's hard to get across the concept of where you can have a total bundle package being sold by Company A being priced higher than a competing Company B with the smaller package, but the specific composition of Company B's smaller package is worth more compared to the corresponding sub-component of Company A's larger package. Too many people just look at $X > $Y and then don't break it down to an apples-to-apples comparison.)

As a result, the breakeven point for the UConn athletic department overall doesn't require its football program to replace the entire amount that it would have received from the AAC for football. UConn's basketball revenue is going to be higher just based on the Big East distributions for that sport alone (once again not mixing in the apples-to-oranges comparison of the football/basketball distributions of the AAC), much less any increases from ticket sales and donations at the individual school level. With that in mind, its football program doesn't *have* to make as much as it did in the AAC in order for the UConn athletic department to be better off.

Here is the problem with your analysis. It was always an interesting point that the Big East was making more media income (4 million) for JUST basketball than the AAC was making for everything PLUS football. However, the 990 Tax filings from 2016 have largely blown up that narrative. Turns out, due largely to the CFP pay outs, the AAC schools were always bringing home a bigger average per team conference paycheck than the Big East schools (roughly 4.5 million vs 3.5 million). Now that the Big East advantage on the media payout side (4 million vs 2 million) has not only been eliminated---but reversed (4 million vs 7 million)---common sense tells you that revenue gap about about to become much larger.

I am more than willing to stipulate that the Big East is a better basketball conference and a better fit for UConn. However, I have to call out the fake narrative that UConn, who will still have to pay all the costs associated with its football program, is going to make MORE money in the Big East they would have in the AAC. Any unbiased analysis will indicate thats simply not the case. That said, I dont think the difference will be big enough to deny the fan base what they really desired and I fully believe---the administration knows that the Big East is a viable long term final destination for UConn should they ever decide to pull the plug on football (where as the AAC would not be).
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2019 03:22 PM by Attackcoog.)
08-08-2019 03:11 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 03:06 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  UConn has practically no history with Creighton (0 games), Xavier (1) and Butler (1).

Very little history with DePaul (11) and Marquette (9). To put it another way, UConn has more history with Cincy, USF, UCF, Memphis, Temple, SMU & Houston than those schools.

Of the remaining Big East schools, it would be hard to call Seton Hall or Providence "rivals." UConn wins 67% of their games against those two.

So we're really talking about Villanova, Georgetown and St John's as schools that raise the temperature of long time UConn fans.

So god help UConn and their donation level if they lose as many games in the Big East as they did in the American - to a different bunch of schools that they don't consider rivals.

UConn's recently played Butler in a National Championship game though, so it's simultaneously accurate to say that UConn has very little history with Butler but also that UConn has more meaningful history with Butler than with nearly the entire AAC (I'll make an exception for Cincy).

Look, let's not do this. A full half of the Big East would instantly become UConn's biggest rival in the AAC the day they (in this theoretical) joined. Question the impact on football, question the dollar amounts people quote, sure, but let's not pretend to do the basketball matchups thing. That's not even getting into the tournament situations.
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2019 03:58 PM by Bogg.)
08-08-2019 03:27 PM
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Post: #23
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 11:24 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  If UComn isnwilling to sacrifice national exposure in football they can make decent local region tv dollars. Here’s hoping thenreshuffled leagues work out for all involved

I'm sure any package with SNY will be distributed elsewhere in the country through RSNs or other means.
08-08-2019 03:40 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 03:11 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 02:57 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  In these types of breakdowns, I feel like the truth is somewhere in the middle: Big East supporters seem to underestimate the drop in football revenue, but AAC supporters seem to underestimate the increase in basketball revenue. UConn isn't going to receive the conference distributions for the CFP and other bowls, which is a significant amount that the Big East-biased OP link glosses over. Those guaranteed annual amounts are almost certainly going to be lower and more variable.

At the same time, though, it drives me up the wall when AAC fans try to compare their new football/basketball TV contract with ESPN to the basketball TV contract with Fox because they're simply not the same. When it comes to basketball revenue, UConn is going to straight up make more money for that particular sport and, on a relative basis, the Big East TV contract for basketball is on par with what the Power Five conferences would assign as the basketball value of their TV contracts.

I keep racking my brain to think of the best analogy, but it's like comparing what's a more valuable housing market. Greenwich, CT has higher median home values than Manhattan, but that doesn't mean that real estate is more valuable in Greenwich per se. That median home in Greenwich is going to be a mansion with a lot of land and space, whereas the median home in Manhattan is a fairly small apartment/condo/co-op with no land at all. Manhattan has a much higher price per square foot, which means that a piece of real estate in that is the size of the median Greenwich home is going to be worth much more in Manhattan. By the same token, a condo in Greenwich is going to be less than the same-sized condo in Manhattan. Yet, Greenwich has a larger inventory of large-sized properties, so that drives the median home price upwards. So, is Greenwich or Manhattan the more valuable real estate market?

In this case, Greenwich = AAC and Manhattan = Big East. The AAC might be getting more overall TV money, but that's also because it's selling additional inventory in the form of football. In contrast, the Big East is getting a significantly higher price for what it's specifically selling (basketball) compared to the AAC.

(I'll grant that this is analogy is one of the weaker ones that I've come up with over the years, but it's hard to get across the concept of where you can have a total bundle package being sold by Company A being priced higher than a competing Company B with the smaller package, but the specific composition of Company B's smaller package is worth more compared to the corresponding sub-component of Company A's larger package. Too many people just look at $X > $Y and then don't break it down to an apples-to-apples comparison.)

As a result, the breakeven point for the UConn athletic department overall doesn't require its football program to replace the entire amount that it would have received from the AAC for football. UConn's basketball revenue is going to be higher just based on the Big East distributions for that sport alone (once again not mixing in the apples-to-oranges comparison of the football/basketball distributions of the AAC), much less any increases from ticket sales and donations at the individual school level. With that in mind, its football program doesn't *have* to make as much as it did in the AAC in order for the UConn athletic department to be better off.

Here is the problem with your analysis. It was always an interesting point that the Big East was making more media income (4 million) for JUST basketball than the AAC was making for everything PLUS football. However, the 990 Tax filings from 2016 have largely blown up that narrative. Turns out, due largely to the CFP pay outs, the AAC schools were always bringing home a bigger average per team conference paycheck than the Big East schools (roughly 4.5 million vs 3.5 million). Now that the Big East advantage on the media payout side (4 million vs 2 million) has not only been eliminated---but reversed (4 million vs 7 million)---common sense tells you that revenue gap about about to become much larger.

I am more than willing to stipulate that the Big East is a better basketball conference and a better fit for UConn. However, I have to call out the fake narrative that UConn, who will still have to pay all the costs associated with its football program, is going to make MORE money in the Big East they would have in the AAC. Any unbiased analysis will indicate thats simply not the case. That said, I dont think the difference will be big enough to deny the fan base what they really desired and I fully believe---the administration knows that the Big East is a viable long term final destination for UConn should they ever decide to pull the plug on football (where as the AAC would not be).

I understand your argument, but it's just an extension of what I was stating previously. I'm not arguing that the AAC conference payouts weren't higher than the Big East conference payouts, yet the same analysis applies. The AAC conference payouts *should* have been higher because they're including all of the football bowl revenue that the Big East isn't going to provide at a conference level. My point is that *basketball* conference revenue is higher in the Big East in all forms (TV, NCAA Tournament, etc.), which means that the break-even point for the UConn athletic department doesn't require *as much* football revenue as it did under the AAC. Now, UConn could certainly screw it all up - I'm not saying that UConn is going to magically make more money in the Big East. Instead, I'm just saying that people need to take into account that basketball revenue is almost certainly going to increase for UConn just looking at the conference distributions (not even taking into account ticket sales and donations), which gives a lot more cushion for the football side to figure things out than what a lot of UConn critics are giving them credit for here.

Maybe a better analogy is cars as opposed to houses. Let's say that a fully-loaded Toyota Camry costs slightly more than a bare bones Lexus IS without any extra features. However, the bare bones Lexus IS costs significantly more than the bare bones Toyota Camry. In this case:

Bare bones Lexus IS = Big East basketball
Bare bones Toyota Camry = AAC basketball
Fully-loaded Toyota Camry = AAC basketball + football

My whole point is that when it comes to apples-to-apples (pure basketball revenue), the Big East makes more (and honestly significantly more) than the AAC, just as the bare bones Lexus IS costs significantly more than a bare bones Toyota Camry. However, when you add in all of the extra features (football for the AAC), that pushes the cost of a fully-loaded Toyota Camry (the AAC with both basketball and football) past the cost of a bare bones Lexus IS (the Big East with basketball).

UConn doesn't need a fully-loaded Lexus IS of a football program to push past the cost of a fully-loaded Toyota Camry. All you need is a couple of extra features and then that IS becomes more expensive than the Camry (because all things being equal, a Lexus is an inherently more valuable brand than a Toyota, which you can argue is the same when comparing the brand of the Big East compared to the AAC). So, UConn just needs its football program to do the equivalent of adding a couple of extra features compared to a bare bones Lexus IS in order to get to break-even.

I don't know if that analogy makes sense to anyone here, but it makes sense in my own (admittedly strange) head.
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2019 04:18 PM by Frank the Tank.)
08-08-2019 04:12 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 11:45 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 11:40 AM)scoscox Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 11:24 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  If UComn isnwilling to sacrifice national exposure in football they can make decent local region tv dollars. Here’s hoping thenreshuffled leagues work out for all involved

they were getting national exposure in football? could've fooled me

The payout sucks but the exposure in the
AAC is pretty good. Most games are on an ESPN 2, ESPN U or ESPN News with the exception of a couple games on CBS Sports. UConn has been bad for a while and is not a FB TV draw so they get more games on the lower tier than UCF, Houston, Memphis and UC.

I just meant UConn specifically. With how bad they are they never get any of the even remotely prime time slots of the few that the American gets
08-08-2019 04:18 PM
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Post: #26
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 04:12 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 03:11 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 02:57 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  In these types of breakdowns, I feel like the truth is somewhere in the middle: Big East supporters seem to underestimate the drop in football revenue, but AAC supporters seem to underestimate the increase in basketball revenue. UConn isn't going to receive the conference distributions for the CFP and other bowls, which is a significant amount that the Big East-biased OP link glosses over. Those guaranteed annual amounts are almost certainly going to be lower and more variable.

At the same time, though, it drives me up the wall when AAC fans try to compare their new football/basketball TV contract with ESPN to the basketball TV contract with Fox because they're simply not the same. When it comes to basketball revenue, UConn is going to straight up make more money for that particular sport and, on a relative basis, the Big East TV contract for basketball is on par with what the Power Five conferences would assign as the basketball value of their TV contracts.

I keep racking my brain to think of the best analogy, but it's like comparing what's a more valuable housing market. Greenwich, CT has higher median home values than Manhattan, but that doesn't mean that real estate is more valuable in Greenwich per se. That median home in Greenwich is going to be a mansion with a lot of land and space, whereas the median home in Manhattan is a fairly small apartment/condo/co-op with no land at all. Manhattan has a much higher price per square foot, which means that a piece of real estate in that is the size of the median Greenwich home is going to be worth much more in Manhattan. By the same token, a condo in Greenwich is going to be less than the same-sized condo in Manhattan. Yet, Greenwich has a larger inventory of large-sized properties, so that drives the median home price upwards. So, is Greenwich or Manhattan the more valuable real estate market?

In this case, Greenwich = AAC and Manhattan = Big East. The AAC might be getting more overall TV money, but that's also because it's selling additional inventory in the form of football. In contrast, the Big East is getting a significantly higher price for what it's specifically selling (basketball) compared to the AAC.

(I'll grant that this is analogy is one of the weaker ones that I've come up with over the years, but it's hard to get across the concept of where you can have a total bundle package being sold by Company A being priced higher than a competing Company B with the smaller package, but the specific composition of Company B's smaller package is worth more compared to the corresponding sub-component of Company A's larger package. Too many people just look at $X > $Y and then don't break it down to an apples-to-apples comparison.)

As a result, the breakeven point for the UConn athletic department overall doesn't require its football program to replace the entire amount that it would have received from the AAC for football. UConn's basketball revenue is going to be higher just based on the Big East distributions for that sport alone (once again not mixing in the apples-to-oranges comparison of the football/basketball distributions of the AAC), much less any increases from ticket sales and donations at the individual school level. With that in mind, its football program doesn't *have* to make as much as it did in the AAC in order for the UConn athletic department to be better off.

Here is the problem with your analysis. It was always an interesting point that the Big East was making more media income (4 million) for JUST basketball than the AAC was making for everything PLUS football. However, the 990 Tax filings from 2016 have largely blown up that narrative. Turns out, due largely to the CFP pay outs, the AAC schools were always bringing home a bigger average per team conference paycheck than the Big East schools (roughly 4.5 million vs 3.5 million). Now that the Big East advantage on the media payout side (4 million vs 2 million) has not only been eliminated---but reversed (4 million vs 7 million)---common sense tells you that revenue gap about about to become much larger.

I am more than willing to stipulate that the Big East is a better basketball conference and a better fit for UConn. However, I have to call out the fake narrative that UConn, who will still have to pay all the costs associated with its football program, is going to make MORE money in the Big East they would have in the AAC. Any unbiased analysis will indicate thats simply not the case. That said, I dont think the difference will be big enough to deny the fan base what they really desired and I fully believe---the administration knows that the Big East is a viable long term final destination for UConn should they ever decide to pull the plug on football (where as the AAC would not be).

I understand your argument, but it's just an extension of what I was stating previously. I'm not arguing that the AAC conference payouts weren't higher than the Big East conference payouts, yet the same analysis applies. The AAC conference payouts *should* have been higher because they're including all of the football bowl revenue that the Big East isn't going to provide at a conference level. My point is that *basketball* conference revenue is higher in the Big East in all forms (TV, NCAA Tournament, etc.), which means that the break-even point for the UConn athletic department doesn't require *as much* football revenue as it did under the AAC. Now, UConn could certainly screw it all up - I'm not saying that UConn is going to magically make more money in the Big East. Instead, I'm just saying that people need to take into account that basketball revenue is almost certainly going to increase for UConn just looking at the conference distributions (not even taking into account ticket sales and donations), which gives a lot more cushion for the football side to figure things out than what a lot of UConn critics are giving them credit for here.

Maybe a better analogy is cars as opposed to houses. Let's say that a fully-loaded Toyota Camry costs slightly more than a bare bones Lexus IS without any extra features. However, the bare bones Lexus IS costs significantly more than the bare bones Toyota Camry. In this case:

Bare bones Lexus IS = Big East basketball
Bare bones Toyota Camry = AAC basketball
Fully-loaded Toyota Camry = AAC basketball + football

My whole point is that when it comes to apples-to-apples (pure basketball revenue), the Big East makes more (and honestly significantly more) than the AAC, just as the bare bones Lexus IS costs significantly more than a bare bones Toyota Camry. However, when you add in all of the extra features (football for the AAC), that pushes the cost of a fully-loaded Toyota Camry (the AAC with both basketball and football) past the cost of a bare bones Lexus IS (the Big East with basketball).

UConn doesn't need a fully-loaded Lexus IS of a football program to push past the cost of a fully-loaded Toyota Camry. All you need is a couple of extra features and then that IS becomes more expensive than the Camry (because all things being equal, a Lexus is an inherently more valuable brand than a Toyota, which you can argue is the same when comparing the brand of the Big East compared to the AAC). So, UConn just needs its football program to do the equivalent of adding a couple of extra features compared to a bare bones Lexus IS in order to get to break-even.

I don't know if that analogy makes sense to anyone here, but it makes sense in my own (admittedly strange) head.

Makes sense to me. Then again I am fluent in Illini
08-08-2019 04:24 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 02:57 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  In these types of breakdowns, I feel like the truth is somewhere in the middle: Big East supporters seem to underestimate the drop in football revenue, but AAC supporters seem to underestimate the increase in basketball revenue. UConn isn't going to receive the conference distributions for the CFP and other bowls, which is a significant amount that the Big East-biased OP link glosses over. Those guaranteed annual amounts are almost certainly going to be lower and more variable.

At the same time, though, it drives me up the wall when AAC fans try to compare their new football/basketball TV contract with ESPN to the basketball TV contract with Fox because they're simply not the same. When it comes to basketball revenue, UConn is going to straight up make more money for that particular sport and, on a relative basis, the Big East TV contract for basketball is on par with what the Power Five conferences would assign as the basketball value of their TV contracts.

I keep racking my brain to think of the best analogy, but it's like comparing what's a more valuable housing market. Greenwich, CT has higher median home values than Manhattan, but that doesn't mean that real estate is more valuable in Greenwich per se. That median home in Greenwich is going to be a mansion with a lot of land and space, whereas the median home in Manhattan is a fairly small apartment/condo/co-op with no land at all. Manhattan has a much higher price per square foot, which means that a piece of real estate in that is the size of the median Greenwich home is going to be worth much more in Manhattan. By the same token, a condo in Greenwich is going to be less than the same-sized condo in Manhattan. Yet, Greenwich has a larger inventory of large-sized properties, so that drives the median home price upwards. So, is Greenwich or Manhattan the more valuable real estate market?

In this case, Greenwich = AAC and Manhattan = Big East. The AAC might be getting more overall TV money, but that's also because it's selling additional inventory in the form of football. In contrast, the Big East is getting a significantly higher price for what it's specifically selling (basketball) compared to the AAC.

(I'll grant that this is analogy is one of the weaker ones that I've come up with over the years, but it's hard to get across the concept of where you can have a total bundle package being sold by Company A being priced higher than a competing Company B with the smaller package, but the specific composition of Company B's smaller package is worth more compared to the corresponding sub-component of Company A's larger package. Too many people just look at $X > $Y and then don't break it down to an apples-to-apples comparison.)

As a result, the breakeven point for the UConn athletic department overall doesn't require its football program to replace the entire amount that it would have received from the AAC for football. UConn's basketball revenue is going to be higher just based on the Big East distributions for that sport alone (once again not mixing in the apples-to-oranges comparison of the football/basketball distributions of the AAC), much less any increases from ticket sales and donations at the individual school level. With that in mind, its football program doesn't *have* to make as much as it did in the AAC in order for the UConn athletic department to be better off.

A few uc fans tried arguing with me that their media deal is much better than ours and it’s dumbfounding. There’s just no way to refute the strength of that delusion. I’m not sure if they really believe it and just don’t understand how much more money is budgeted for football or they just don’t want to give me the win as a xavier fan
08-08-2019 04:24 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 11:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 10:59 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  https://connecticut.rivals.com/news/fina...e-big-east

Quote:"Production costs

After the possible loss of SNY, this has been the part that has gotten people most up-in-arms. Mainly that a portion of the $7 million guaranteed to each school annually would go directly toward producing games shown on ESPN+. A UConn source estimated that the 25-or-so basketball games relegated to ESPN+ each year would cost the school between $250,000 and half a million dollars. That’s before you even consider the 50 olympic sports streamed per year under the deal. A conservative estimate could put the price tag on annual production costs at between $500,000 and $1,000,000.

Knock another million off the true value of that deal."

Quote:Big East:
Value of Big East deal with FOX: $4.2 million per year, per team
Value of current deal with SNY: About $1 million per year
Expected value of football deal with SNY: About $1 million per year
Potential football buy game: $1 million per year
Bowl game payout: $310,000, based on 2019
Men’s Basketball Fund: $1.6 million
AAC exit fee: $1 million per year, after 2020
TOTAL: $8.1 million

Quote:AAC:
Value of new AAC deal: About $7 million per year, per team
Bowl Game Payout: $2.05 million per team in 2019
Men’s Basketball Fund: $725,000
ESPN+ Production costs: About $1 million per year
Additional travel: About $2 million per year
TOTAL: $6.75 million

Amazes me the writers that dont know facts.

#1) CFP payout has been completely left out.

#2) AAC Basketball fund left out

#3) Most of exit fee not considered (only 6 million of 20.5 million was included).

#4) There is no SNY income--third tier rights were signed over to the Big East, which had already sold them to FOX. If FOX doesnt use them, they revert to the Big East, who acts as the agent and then distributes the money equally to each member of the confernece.

#5) A football "payday game" is not a Big East income stream. Scheduling a one-and-done payday game could have been done in the AAC.

#6) ESPN+ production costs remain unknown---but many FCS and D2 teams with very small budgets under 10 million have been handling these costs (with no offsetting income) for years. If have found at least one article that pegs the cost at around $350K. As for equipment----one D1 school bought the production trailer and equipment needed for ESPN3/+ for $125,000. Akron upgraded its facilities for to handle ESPN3/+ for $350K. These costs are unknown right now---but I suspect they are being badly overestimated. That said, at least this article is more reasonable than the 2 million dollar estimates I have seen elsewhere.

My position is that the Big East likley will pay slightly less---but is a much better fit for UConn and--may become a financial windfall should UConn decide to downgrade or completely eliminate football.

Coog you’re misinterpreting the SNY part I think. He’s transferring their current basketball SNY contract to a future football SNY contract, which is very much a possibility.

As far as the buy game point, yes they could do that in the AAC but being an independent gives them the flexibility to schedule more of those games
08-08-2019 04:32 PM
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Post: #29
Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 03:40 PM)orangefan Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 11:24 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  If UComn isnwilling to sacrifice national exposure in football they can make decent local region tv dollars. Here’s hoping thenreshuffled leagues work out for all involved

I'm sure any package with SNY will be distributed elsewhere in the country through RSNs or other means.


True but the reach of ESPN is almost certain to be wider and more visible. I wasn’t implying they’d be de-facto blacked out of other markets.
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Post: #30
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 11:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 10:59 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  https://connecticut.rivals.com/news/fina...e-big-east

Quote:"Production costs

After the possible loss of SNY, this has been the part that has gotten people most up-in-arms. Mainly that a portion of the $7 million guaranteed to each school annually would go directly toward producing games shown on ESPN+. A UConn source estimated that the 25-or-so basketball games relegated to ESPN+ each year would cost the school between $250,000 and half a million dollars. That’s before you even consider the 50 olympic sports streamed per year under the deal. A conservative estimate could put the price tag on annual production costs at between $500,000 and $1,000,000.

Knock another million off the true value of that deal."

Quote:Big East:
Value of Big East deal with FOX: $4.2 million per year, per team
Value of current deal with SNY: About $1 million per year
Expected value of football deal with SNY: About $1 million per year
Potential football buy game: $1 million per year
Bowl game payout: $310,000, based on 2019
Men’s Basketball Fund: $1.6 million
AAC exit fee: $1 million per year, after 2020
TOTAL: $8.1 million

Quote:AAC:
Value of new AAC deal: About $7 million per year, per team
Bowl Game Payout: $2.05 million per team in 2019
Men’s Basketball Fund: $725,000
ESPN+ Production costs: About $1 million per year
Additional travel: About $2 million per year
TOTAL: $6.75 million

Amazes me the writers that dont know facts.

#1) CFP payout has been completely left out.

#2) AAC Basketball fund left out

#3) Most of exit fee not considered (only 6 million of 20.5 million was included).

#4) There is no SNY income--third tier rights were signed over to the Big East, which had already sold them to FOX. If FOX doesnt use them, they revert to the Big East, who acts as the agent and then distributes the money equally to each member of the confernece.

#5) A football "payday game" is not a Big East income stream. Scheduling a one-and-done payday game could have been done in the AAC.

#6) ESPN+ production costs remain unknown---but many FCS and D2 teams with very small budgets under 10 million have been handling these costs (with no offsetting income) for years. If have found at least one article that pegs the cost at around $350K. As for equipment----one D1 school bought the production trailer and equipment needed for ESPN3/+ for $125,000. Akron upgraded its facilities for to handle ESPN3/+ for $350K. These costs are unknown right now---but I suspect they are being badly overestimated. That said, at least this article is more reasonable than the 2 million dollar estimates I have seen elsewhere.

My position is that the Big East likley will pay slightly less---but is a much better fit for UConn and--may become a financial windfall should UConn decide to downgrade or completely eliminate football.
From the amount of revenue coming in it would appear UCONN shouldn't have an 80+ million dollar athletic budget. That should have been cut immediately upon the formation of the AAC. They need to cut it, or perhaps the state will cut it for them.
08-08-2019 05:05 PM
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Mestophalies Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 05:05 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 11:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 10:59 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  https://connecticut.rivals.com/news/fina...e-big-east

Quote:"Production costs

After the possible loss of SNY, this has been the part that has gotten people most up-in-arms. Mainly that a portion of the $7 million guaranteed to each school annually would go directly toward producing games shown on ESPN+. A UConn source estimated that the 25-or-so basketball games relegated to ESPN+ each year would cost the school between $250,000 and half a million dollars. That’s before you even consider the 50 olympic sports streamed per year under the deal. A conservative estimate could put the price tag on annual production costs at between $500,000 and $1,000,000.

Knock another million off the true value of that deal."

Quote:Big East:
Value of Big East deal with FOX: $4.2 million per year, per team
Value of current deal with SNY: About $1 million per year
Expected value of football deal with SNY: About $1 million per year
Potential football buy game: $1 million per year
Bowl game payout: $310,000, based on 2019
Men’s Basketball Fund: $1.6 million
AAC exit fee: $1 million per year, after 2020
TOTAL: $8.1 million

Quote:AAC:
Value of new AAC deal: About $7 million per year, per team
Bowl Game Payout: $2.05 million per team in 2019
Men’s Basketball Fund: $725,000
ESPN+ Production costs: About $1 million per year
Additional travel: About $2 million per year
TOTAL: $6.75 million

Amazes me the writers that dont know facts.

#1) CFP payout has been completely left out.

#2) AAC Basketball fund left out

#3) Most of exit fee not considered (only 6 million of 20.5 million was included).

#4) There is no SNY income--third tier rights were signed over to the Big East, which had already sold them to FOX. If FOX doesnt use them, they revert to the Big East, who acts as the agent and then distributes the money equally to each member of the confernece.

#5) A football "payday game" is not a Big East income stream. Scheduling a one-and-done payday game could have been done in the AAC.

#6) ESPN+ production costs remain unknown---but many FCS and D2 teams with very small budgets under 10 million have been handling these costs (with no offsetting income) for years. If have found at least one article that pegs the cost at around $350K. As for equipment----one D1 school bought the production trailer and equipment needed for ESPN3/+ for $125,000. Akron upgraded its facilities for to handle ESPN3/+ for $350K. These costs are unknown right now---but I suspect they are being badly overestimated. That said, at least this article is more reasonable than the 2 million dollar estimates I have seen elsewhere.

My position is that the Big East likley will pay slightly less---but is a much better fit for UConn and--may become a financial windfall should UConn decide to downgrade or completely eliminate football.
From the amount of revenue coming in it would appear UCONN shouldn't have an 80+ million dollar athletic budget. That should have been cut immediately upon the formation of the AAC. They need to cut it, or perhaps the state will cut it for them.

This is exactly why they moved to the Big East, to cut their budget. UConn will shortly discontinue Football and then cut the corresponding number of Female Scholarships and remain within Title IX standards. The reduction in scholarships will allow UConn to effectively cut their budget in half. 07-coffee3
08-08-2019 05:13 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Online
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Post: #32
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 03:06 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  UConn has practically no history with Creighton (0 games), Xavier (1) and Butler (1).

Very little history with DePaul (11) and Marquette (9). To put it another way, UConn has more history with Cincy, USF, UCF, Memphis, Temple, SMU & Houston than those schools.

Of the remaining Big East schools, it would be hard to call Seton Hall or Providence "rivals." UConn wins 67% of their games against those two.

So we're really talking about Villanova, Georgetown and St John's as schools that raise the temperature of long time UConn fans.

So god help UConn and their donation level if they lose as many games in the Big East as they did in the American - to a different bunch of schools that they don't consider rivals.

Creighton averages for for a home game in men's basketball than any other member in the AAC (and it routinely top-10 in the country). It is a basketball-first institution, which none of the current members of the AAC can say. Their fans travel well to road games, as always have a strong contingent for the BET in NYC (which, again, many fans of AAC programs could not do for their tournaments in Memphis and/or Orlando). UConn also played Butler in a national championship game, something that a majority of the AAC has never done in men's basketball.

Marquette's first Big East win was at home against #2 UConn; they also ended UConn's 31-game home winning streak in 2007. In fact, every matchup between the two schools has had at least one of the teams ranked. For a majority of its AAC basketball contests, that was never the case (i.e. last year, UConn faced one AAC opponent that was ranked).

UConn has, and will continue to be, a longer shared membership in a conference with schools like Marquette and DePaul (2005-2013, 2020-onwards) than schools like UCF, Temple, Memphis, Houston, SMU (2013-2020). In the long-run, their time in the AAC will be a blip in their basketball history. It will be similar to South Carolina's tenure in the Metro Conference.
08-08-2019 05:20 PM
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Old Blue Online
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Post: #33
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 05:13 PM)Mestophalies Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 05:05 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 11:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 10:59 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  https://connecticut.rivals.com/news/fina...e-big-east

Quote:"Production costs

After the possible loss of SNY, this has been the part that has gotten people most up-in-arms. Mainly that a portion of the $7 million guaranteed to each school annually would go directly toward producing games shown on ESPN+. A UConn source estimated that the 25-or-so basketball games relegated to ESPN+ each year would cost the school between $250,000 and half a million dollars. That’s before you even consider the 50 olympic sports streamed per year under the deal. A conservative estimate could put the price tag on annual production costs at between $500,000 and $1,000,000.

Knock another million off the true value of that deal."

Quote:Big East:
Value of Big East deal with FOX: $4.2 million per year, per team
Value of current deal with SNY: About $1 million per year
Expected value of football deal with SNY: About $1 million per year
Potential football buy game: $1 million per year
Bowl game payout: $310,000, based on 2019
Men’s Basketball Fund: $1.6 million
AAC exit fee: $1 million per year, after 2020
TOTAL: $8.1 million

Quote:AAC:
Value of new AAC deal: About $7 million per year, per team
Bowl Game Payout: $2.05 million per team in 2019
Men’s Basketball Fund: $725,000
ESPN+ Production costs: About $1 million per year
Additional travel: About $2 million per year
TOTAL: $6.75 million

Amazes me the writers that dont know facts.

#1) CFP payout has been completely left out.

#2) AAC Basketball fund left out

#3) Most of exit fee not considered (only 6 million of 20.5 million was included).

#4) There is no SNY income--third tier rights were signed over to the Big East, which had already sold them to FOX. If FOX doesnt use them, they revert to the Big East, who acts as the agent and then distributes the money equally to each member of the confernece.

#5) A football "payday game" is not a Big East income stream. Scheduling a one-and-done payday game could have been done in the AAC.

#6) ESPN+ production costs remain unknown---but many FCS and D2 teams with very small budgets under 10 million have been handling these costs (with no offsetting income) for years. If have found at least one article that pegs the cost at around $350K. As for equipment----one D1 school bought the production trailer and equipment needed for ESPN3/+ for $125,000. Akron upgraded its facilities for to handle ESPN3/+ for $350K. These costs are unknown right now---but I suspect they are being badly overestimated. That said, at least this article is more reasonable than the 2 million dollar estimates I have seen elsewhere.

My position is that the Big East likley will pay slightly less---but is a much better fit for UConn and--may become a financial windfall should UConn decide to downgrade or completely eliminate football.
From the amount of revenue coming in it would appear UCONN shouldn't have an 80+ million dollar athletic budget. That should have been cut immediately upon the formation of the AAC. They need to cut it, or perhaps the state will cut it for them.

This is exactly why they moved to the Big East, to cut their budget. UConn will shortly discontinue Football and then cut the corresponding number of Female Scholarships and remain within Title IX standards. The reduction in scholarships will allow UConn to effectively cut their budget in half. 07-coffee3

We'll see about a reduction in Women's sports. Title nine is a political thing. A beast that only grows, it never gets smaller. If you start cutting women's sports, especially in the northeast....there will be hell to pay.
08-08-2019 05:29 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #34
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 04:32 PM)scoscox Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 11:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 10:59 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  https://connecticut.rivals.com/news/fina...e-big-east

Quote:"Production costs

After the possible loss of SNY, this has been the part that has gotten people most up-in-arms. Mainly that a portion of the $7 million guaranteed to each school annually would go directly toward producing games shown on ESPN+. A UConn source estimated that the 25-or-so basketball games relegated to ESPN+ each year would cost the school between $250,000 and half a million dollars. That’s before you even consider the 50 olympic sports streamed per year under the deal. A conservative estimate could put the price tag on annual production costs at between $500,000 and $1,000,000.

Knock another million off the true value of that deal."

Quote:Big East:
Value of Big East deal with FOX: $4.2 million per year, per team
Value of current deal with SNY: About $1 million per year
Expected value of football deal with SNY: About $1 million per year
Potential football buy game: $1 million per year
Bowl game payout: $310,000, based on 2019
Men’s Basketball Fund: $1.6 million
AAC exit fee: $1 million per year, after 2020
TOTAL: $8.1 million

Quote:AAC:
Value of new AAC deal: About $7 million per year, per team
Bowl Game Payout: $2.05 million per team in 2019
Men’s Basketball Fund: $725,000
ESPN+ Production costs: About $1 million per year
Additional travel: About $2 million per year
TOTAL: $6.75 million

Amazes me the writers that dont know facts.

#1) CFP payout has been completely left out.

#2) AAC Basketball fund left out

#3) Most of exit fee not considered (only 6 million of 20.5 million was included).

#4) There is no SNY income--third tier rights were signed over to the Big East, which had already sold them to FOX. If FOX doesnt use them, they revert to the Big East, who acts as the agent and then distributes the money equally to each member of the confernece.

#5) A football "payday game" is not a Big East income stream. Scheduling a one-and-done payday game could have been done in the AAC.

#6) ESPN+ production costs remain unknown---but many FCS and D2 teams with very small budgets under 10 million have been handling these costs (with no offsetting income) for years. If have found at least one article that pegs the cost at around $350K. As for equipment----one D1 school bought the production trailer and equipment needed for ESPN3/+ for $125,000. Akron upgraded its facilities for to handle ESPN3/+ for $350K. These costs are unknown right now---but I suspect they are being badly overestimated. That said, at least this article is more reasonable than the 2 million dollar estimates I have seen elsewhere.

My position is that the Big East likley will pay slightly less---but is a much better fit for UConn and--may become a financial windfall should UConn decide to downgrade or completely eliminate football.

Coog you’re misinterpreting the SNY part I think. He’s transferring their current basketball SNY contract to a future football SNY contract, which is very much a possibility.

As far as the buy game point, yes they could do that in the AAC but being an independent gives them the flexibility to schedule more of those games

He shows both the current SNY deal AND a future SNY football deal. His math includes BOTH to get to the 8.1 total (net of the exit fee).
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2019 05:35 PM by Attackcoog.)
08-08-2019 05:35 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 05:29 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  We'll see about a reduction in Women's sports. Title nine is a political thing. A beast that only grows, it never gets smaller. If you start cutting women's sports, especially in the northeast....there will be hell to pay.

For as much of a boogeyman Title 9 gets made out to be on football (ironically the most resource-hungry of sports) boards, all it really says is that the split of your scholarships awarded should mirror the gender split of the overall student body. If you're eliminating a big chunk of the men's scholarships awarded then you're in no way out of compliance if you also dial back some women's scholarships awarded, so long as it's done in proportion.
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2019 05:39 PM by Bogg.)
08-08-2019 05:37 PM
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scoscox Online
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Post: #36
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 05:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 04:32 PM)scoscox Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 11:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 10:59 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  https://connecticut.rivals.com/news/fina...e-big-east

Quote:"Production costs

After the possible loss of SNY, this has been the part that has gotten people most up-in-arms. Mainly that a portion of the $7 million guaranteed to each school annually would go directly toward producing games shown on ESPN+. A UConn source estimated that the 25-or-so basketball games relegated to ESPN+ each year would cost the school between $250,000 and half a million dollars. That’s before you even consider the 50 olympic sports streamed per year under the deal. A conservative estimate could put the price tag on annual production costs at between $500,000 and $1,000,000.

Knock another million off the true value of that deal."

Quote:Big East:
Value of Big East deal with FOX: $4.2 million per year, per team
Value of current deal with SNY: About $1 million per year
Expected value of football deal with SNY: About $1 million per year
Potential football buy game: $1 million per year
Bowl game payout: $310,000, based on 2019
Men’s Basketball Fund: $1.6 million
AAC exit fee: $1 million per year, after 2020
TOTAL: $8.1 million

Quote:AAC:
Value of new AAC deal: About $7 million per year, per team
Bowl Game Payout: $2.05 million per team in 2019
Men’s Basketball Fund: $725,000
ESPN+ Production costs: About $1 million per year
Additional travel: About $2 million per year
TOTAL: $6.75 million

Amazes me the writers that dont know facts.

#1) CFP payout has been completely left out.

#2) AAC Basketball fund left out

#3) Most of exit fee not considered (only 6 million of 20.5 million was included).

#4) There is no SNY income--third tier rights were signed over to the Big East, which had already sold them to FOX. If FOX doesnt use them, they revert to the Big East, who acts as the agent and then distributes the money equally to each member of the confernece.

#5) A football "payday game" is not a Big East income stream. Scheduling a one-and-done payday game could have been done in the AAC.

#6) ESPN+ production costs remain unknown---but many FCS and D2 teams with very small budgets under 10 million have been handling these costs (with no offsetting income) for years. If have found at least one article that pegs the cost at around $350K. As for equipment----one D1 school bought the production trailer and equipment needed for ESPN3/+ for $125,000. Akron upgraded its facilities for to handle ESPN3/+ for $350K. These costs are unknown right now---but I suspect they are being badly overestimated. That said, at least this article is more reasonable than the 2 million dollar estimates I have seen elsewhere.

My position is that the Big East likley will pay slightly less---but is a much better fit for UConn and--may become a financial windfall should UConn decide to downgrade or completely eliminate football.

Coog you’re misinterpreting the SNY part I think. He’s transferring their current basketball SNY contract to a future football SNY contract, which is very much a possibility.

As far as the buy game point, yes they could do that in the AAC but being an independent gives them the flexibility to schedule more of those games

He shows both the current SNY deal AND a future SNY football deal. His math includes BOTH to get to the 8.1 total (net of the exit fee).

You’re right I was the one guilty of misinterpretation there. Still, if you withhold that million, the annual payout in that projection would be higher and it doesn’t factor in increased donations and ticket sales
08-08-2019 06:17 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 05:37 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 05:29 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  We'll see about a reduction in Women's sports. Title nine is a political thing. A beast that only grows, it never gets smaller. If you start cutting women's sports, especially in the northeast....there will be hell to pay.

For as much of a boogeyman Title 9 gets made out to be on football (ironically the most resource-hungry of sports) boards, all it really says is that the split of your scholarships awarded should mirror the gender split of the overall student body. If you're eliminating a big chunk of the men's scholarships awarded then you're in no way out of compliance if you also dial back some women's scholarships awarded, so long as it's done in proportion.

It would actually put them OUT of compliance with Title IX (since it goes both ways), if they cut Football and not women's sports.
08-08-2019 06:25 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 06:25 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 05:37 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 05:29 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  We'll see about a reduction in Women's sports. Title nine is a political thing. A beast that only grows, it never gets smaller. If you start cutting women's sports, especially in the northeast....there will be hell to pay.

For as much of a boogeyman Title 9 gets made out to be on football (ironically the most resource-hungry of sports) boards, all it really says is that the split of your scholarships awarded should mirror the gender split of the overall student body. If you're eliminating a big chunk of the men's scholarships awarded then you're in no way out of compliance if you also dial back some women's scholarships awarded, so long as it's done in proportion.

It would actually put them OUT of compliance with Title IX (since it goes both ways), if they cut Football and not women's sports.

Yup, they'd be open to a lawsuit if they didn't make equivalent reductions in scholarships awarded.
08-08-2019 06:50 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
(08-08-2019 05:37 PM)Bogg Wrote:  For as much of a boogeyman Title 9 gets made out to be......
I don’t have the time to do it. But how I wish someone would compile and publish a truly comprehensive list of all the men’s college athletic teams that have been cut-back/eliminated over the past (say) 30-40 years, and then compare that to all the women’s college sports teams that have suffered the same fate.
08-08-2019 07:31 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Financial breakdown of UConn's move to the Big East
I’m having a difficult time believing that people still think UConn is making a bad move here. No, they very clearly are not. This is a smart move by the Huskies. This will save their basketball program – which is really all they really care about.
08-08-2019 07:47 PM
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