(08-08-2019 05:02 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  My Da’s a right wing *******.

The script flips don’t let the title fool ya.

https://www.villagevoice.com/2014/08/06/...g-*******/

My favorite part.

So we must protect and respect each other, no matter how hard it feels. No matter how wrong someone else may seem to us, they are still human. No matter how bad someone may appear, they are truly no worse than us. Our beliefs and behavior don’t make us fundamentally better than others, no matter how satisfying it is to believe otherwise. We must be tireless in our efforts to see things from the point of view we most disagree with. We must make endless efforts to try and understand the people we least relate to. And we must at all times force ourselves to love the people we dislike the most. Not because it’s nice or because they deserve it, but because our own sanity and survival depends on it. And if we do find ourselves pushed into a corner where we must kill others in order to survive, we must fully accept that we are killing people just as fully human as ourselves, and not some evil abstract creatures.

So does this mean you are gonna quit hating Trump and posting despicable fake news while calling him derogatory names?

(08-08-2019 11:55 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-08-2019 05:02 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  My Da’s a right wing *******.

The script flips don’t let the title fool ya.

https://www.villagevoice.com/2014/08/06/...g-*******/

My favorite part.

So we must protect and respect each other, no matter how hard it feels. No matter how wrong someone else may seem to us, they are still human. No matter how bad someone may appear, they are truly no worse than us. Our beliefs and behavior don’t make us fundamentally better than others, no matter how satisfying it is to believe otherwise. We must be tireless in our efforts to see things from the point of view we most disagree with. We must make endless efforts to try and understand the people we least relate to. And we must at all times force ourselves to love the people we dislike the most. Not because it’s nice or because they deserve it, but because our own sanity and survival depends on it. And if we do find ourselves pushed into a corner where we must kill others in order to survive, we must fully accept that we are killing people just as fully human as ourselves, and not some evil abstract creatures.

So does this mean you are gonna quit hating Trump and posting despicable fake news while calling him derogatory names?

baby steps...

(08-08-2019 11:55 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-08-2019 05:02 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  My Da’s a right wing *******.

The script flips don’t let the title fool ya.

https://www.villagevoice.com/2014/08/06/...g-*******/

My favorite part.

So we must protect and respect each other, no matter how hard it feels. No matter how wrong someone else may seem to us, they are still human. No matter how bad someone may appear, they are truly no worse than us. Our beliefs and behavior don’t make us fundamentally better than others, no matter how satisfying it is to believe otherwise. We must be tireless in our efforts to see things from the point of view we most disagree with. We must make endless efforts to try and understand the people we least relate to. And we must at all times force ourselves to love the people we dislike the most. Not because it’s nice or because they deserve it, but because our own sanity and survival depends on it. And if we do find ourselves pushed into a corner where we must kill others in order to survive, we must fully accept that we are killing people just as fully human as ourselves, and not some evil abstract creatures.

So does this mean you are gonna quit hating Trump and posting despicable fake news while calling him derogatory names?

And if we do find ourselves pushed into a corner where we must kill others in order to survive, we must fully accept that we are killing people just as fully human as ourselves, and not some evil abstract creatures.

No, it only means that he's gonna kill us without hate. LOL

(08-08-2019 08:11 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-08-2019 06:40 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  When I read it at first I was pissed thinking this is exactly what the righties do to us. Then it hit me. We do it to each other.

Yep. When you believe that the other side is literally out to destroy us, it's easy to forget that they are just people with different opinions.

I am pretty derogatory toward politicians because quite frankly I think some of them are truly despicable human beings who manipulate us for their own devices and desires.

When I say the enemy of my enemy is my friend, I am using enemy to describe political positions held by those in leadership, not personal attributes.

I have a cartoon that I like. "This is Bob. He voted republican. This is Bob's friend Sally. She voted democrat. Bob and Sally are still friends, because they are adults. Be like Bob and Sally."

Lol.

Forget the cartoon,

Meet Dunk and the Mrs. Dunk.

Likely most can go figger where I come from/ stand.
The Misses is a devoted liberal, but from the actual liberal slant. Not today’s craziness.

And frankly(?) I can see that. Consider myself somewhere in between.

I read it yesterday thanks to someone else posting it on social media... I'm not sure if Mach is posting to say he's turning over a new leaf, but to make us look in the mirror.

The guy's reply was spot on. There is an inherent danger in viewing the other human beings we share this country with as "other" instead of we. And it's exactly how politicians steal freedoms from us because when we are pitted against each other we forget to collectively look at them.

(08-09-2019 08:11 AM)gdunn Wrote:  I read it yesterday thanks to someone else posting it on social media... I'm not sure if Mach is posting to say he's turning over a new leaf, but to make us look in the mirror.

Oh, I’m quite sure it was to benefit OUR ‘growth’ as tolerant human beings.....

Good on ya Mach. +3

I wonder how often you could find a pair of Americans who vehemently disagree on politics but get married. I work with a US Marine right now. He's very conservative. His wife is not, at all. Additionally, my grandparents were the same way. My grandfather, a retired USN combat veteran during the Vietnam War (3 full tours, Purple Heart and Bronze Star with Valor - God rest his soul), was very conservative and my grandmother extremely liberal. Thanksgiving at their house was a shite ton of fun. Probably why I enjoy the Spin Room so much.

(08-09-2019 10:16 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  Good on ya Mach. +3

I wonder how often you could find a pair of Americans who vehemently disagree on politics but get married. I work with a US Marine right now. He's very conservative. His wife is not, at all. Additionally, my grandparents were the same way. My grandfather, a retired USN combat veteran during the Vietnam War (3 full tours, Purple Heart and Bronze Star with Valor - God rest his soul), was very conservative and my grandmother extremely liberal. Thanksgiving at their house was a shite ton of fun. Probably why I enjoy the Spin Room so much.

That sounds very similar to my background. Are we related?

If my wife was a Liberal I still would have married her but we definitely wouldn't EVER talk politics. My best friends are very Liberal and he's always posting stupid crap on Facebook and I still haven't seen anything he's posted that I agree with. We still get together but we (I) don't like to talk politics because neither one will agree with the others stance so why bother.

By the way, he was one of those that agreed with Escobars stance on Trump shouldn't come to El Paso. He calls him Bonespurs Donny but he didn't go into the service either because he claimed a disability so that makes him a hypocrite. He's no better than the man he hates, sad.

(08-09-2019 10:26 AM)olliebaba Wrote:  If my wife was a Liberal I still would have married her but we definitely wouldn't EVER talk politics. My best friends are very Liberal and he's always posting stupid crap on Facebook and I still haven't seen anything he's posted that I agree with. We still get together but we (I) don't like to talk politics because neither one will agree with the others stance so why bother.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat with several of my neighbors. Great people but Liberal to the core. We get together often but I try to avoid politics. A simple laugh or quick change of subject usually does the trick.

(08-09-2019 09:31 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-09-2019 08:11 AM)gdunn Wrote:  I read it yesterday thanks to someone else posting it on social media... I'm not sure if Mach is posting to say he's turning over a new leaf, but to make us look in the mirror.

Oh, I’m quite sure it was to benefit OUR ‘growth’ as tolerant human beings.....

We don’t elect people because we like them. It’s that we fear the other side. I don’t know. I read it and it really hit me. Both sides do this. Fear is a strong motivator and we have a binary choice which is insane in a population of 275 million.

(08-09-2019 10:32 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  

(08-09-2019 09:31 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-09-2019 08:11 AM)gdunn Wrote:  I read it yesterday thanks to someone else posting it on social media... I'm not sure if Mach is posting to say he's turning over a new leaf, but to make us look in the mirror.

Oh, I’m quite sure it was to benefit OUR ‘growth’ as tolerant human beings.....

We don’t elect people because we like them. It’s that we fear the other side. I don’t know. I read it and it really hit me. Both sides do this. Fear is a strong motivator and we have a binary choice which is insane in a population of 275 million.

50-50 men-women.... sometimes I wonder if it’s somehow genetically preordained. Then you have the case of the large metro areas that always eventually turn liberal. But yes, it doesn’t make sense that this country is viciously divided 50-50. Unless it’s not really that divided. We will find out in the next election.

(08-09-2019 10:32 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  

(08-09-2019 09:31 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-09-2019 08:11 AM)gdunn Wrote:  I read it yesterday thanks to someone else posting it on social media... I'm not sure if Mach is posting to say he's turning over a new leaf, but to make us look in the mirror.

Oh, I’m quite sure it was to benefit OUR ‘growth’ as tolerant human beings.....

We don’t elect people because we like them. It’s that we fear the other side. I don’t know. I read it and it really hit me. Both sides do this. Fear is a strong motivator and we have a binary choice which is insane in a population of 275 million.

I don't fear the other side. I have ways to insulate myself from their crazy ideas. I just don't want to have to do those things.

This is the part that your side won't address. Let's say you pass legislation raise the top tax rate to, say, 70%, and add a 2% wealth tax. How do you expect the "rich" to respond? Just sit there complicity and pay exorbitant taxes, or move their money to lower tax jurisdictions--of which there will be plenty, take your pick? And if the money moves to other jurisdictions, what do you think happens to our middle class and growth?

I actually enjoy talking politics with someone who I respect, but disagree with. I feel like if they know I'm not a bad person and I know that they are not a bad person, you can actually have a pretty educational conversation.

As the article points out, most if not all issues are really complex, and there are points to be made on either side. Just because I value A over B and you value B over A does not make one or the other right. That's hard to remember sometimes.

It doesn't usually change any minds at the end of the day because we place different values on different things, but it helps to remind you that there aren't nefarious reasons behind everything your political opponents do.

(08-09-2019 10:21 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-09-2019 10:16 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  Good on ya Mach. +3

I wonder how often you could find a pair of Americans who vehemently disagree on politics but get married. I work with a US Marine right now. He's very conservative. His wife is not, at all. Additionally, my grandparents were the same way. My grandfather, a retired USN combat veteran during the Vietnam War (3 full tours, Purple Heart and Bronze Star with Valor - God rest his soul), was very conservative and my grandmother extremely liberal. Thanksgiving at their house was a shite ton of fun. Probably why I enjoy the Spin Room so much.

That sounds very similar to my background. Are we related?

Did we just become best friends?!

(08-08-2019 05:02 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  My Da’s a right wing *******.

The script flips don’t let the title fool ya.

https://www.villagevoice.com/2014/08/06/...g-*******/

My favorite part.

So we must protect and respect each other, no matter how hard it feels. No matter how wrong someone else may seem to us, they are still human. No matter how bad someone may appear, they are truly no worse than us. Our beliefs and behavior don’t make us fundamentally better than others, no matter how satisfying it is to believe otherwise. We must be tireless in our efforts to see things from the point of view we most disagree with. We must make endless efforts to try and understand the people we least relate to. And we must at all times force ourselves to love the people we dislike the most. Not because it’s nice or because they deserve it, but because our own sanity and survival depends on it. And if we do find ourselves pushed into a corner where we must kill others in order to survive, we must fully accept that we are killing people just as fully human as ourselves, and not some evil abstract creatures.

This is from Andrew W.K., the singer who made the song "When it's time to party we will party hard."

He played at a small venue on my campus when I was in college. He'd keep trying to wax poetic, but the dude's a moron. He reminds me of Will Smith's kids - he tries to be really deep and intelligent, but in reality everything he says is surface-level feel-good baloney.

Read the second-to-last paragraph in the article to see what I mean:

Quote:"But the truth is, the world has always been and always will be on the brink of destruction. And what keeps it from actually imploding is our love for life and our deep-seeded desire not to die. Our love for our own life is inextricably connected to our love of all life and the miracle of this phenomenon we call “the world.” We must give all of ourselves credit every day for keeping things going. It’s an incredible achievement to exist at all."

What the hell does that even mean? And what does it have to do with his advice to the Guy With A Right Wing Dad?

His overall advice in this particular article happens to be spot-on (it's bad for everyone when you view political opponents as "the other"), but I think that's just a lucky coincidence.