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Wear Purple Online
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Post: #61
RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
(08-15-2019 07:47 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  So we have Cignetti (a QB) and Montgomery (coached Big Ben) and people think things aren't going to change at QB. Listen to Davis Cheek at Elon interviews about Cignetti and tell me he didn't make a difference.
DiNucci is no moron. I have far more confidence in him this year than last year. I think it's pretty much a guarantee that Ben won't be turning the ball over 4+ times a game or even 3 times a game. I say that because Cignetti won't accept it and will pull him... something Houston should have done both times (a series or two doesn't count).
If we lose games this season, it won't be due to QB play.

Bingo! Time to let the past be the past. Also, time to get behind Shane Montgomery's "new" Big Ben...as in the Nooch. No need to beat anymore dead horses about our QB's.

Really looking forward to seeing Percy (hopefully) getting ~20 touches. He, like all backs, need some creases from the OL to be effective of course. I just like how in the sample size we've seen his first 2 years, he always seems to be falling forward and getting an extra 2-3 yards at minimum even when being gang tackled.

I also look forward to seeing our WR corps, which I am bullish on surprising us fans this fall. Nothing against Stapleton. I definitely look forward to his return as his size is a weapon and his experience is invaluable. I do think though that we have some receivers with speed who given space in the open field are going to have some 'wow' moments - hopefully early on in Morgantown of course.
08-15-2019 08:03 AM
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Purple Offline
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Post: #62
RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
(08-15-2019 07:47 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 06:27 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 08:47 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 07:34 PM)2Buck Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 09:00 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  not too late to get a FBS transfer.

you can get them in until semester classes start.

we might need it. DL and shaky QB play are the only things that could derail this team from being a juggernaut.

Good thing don't need to worry about shaky QB play.

[Image: tenor.gif?itemid=13633891]

I love how so many are still worried about a QB that by all accounts has improved his game, ball security, is behind an improved line, and was named to the CFPA FCS National Performer of the Year watch list. There have now been two separate coaching staffs that have thought he gives us the best chance to win

So we have Cignetti (a QB) and Montgomery (coached Big Ben) and people think things aren't going to change at QB. Listen to Davis Cheek at Elon interviews about Cignetti and tell me he didn't make a difference.
DiNucci is no moron. I have far more confidence in him this year than last year. I think it's pretty much a guarantee that Ben won't be turning the ball over 4+ times a game or even 3 times a game. I say that because Cignetti won't accept it and will pull him... something Houston should have done both times (a series or two doesn't count).
If we lose games this season, it won't be due to QB play.

We didn't lose games last year due to poor QB play. When adequately protected and the playcalling plays to his strengths, DiNucci is a fine quarterback. I point to the NC State game last year where, if we had had our starting defensive secondary on the field, we might very well have won that game or at least made it even much closer than it was. By the way, Nooch led all rushers (even NC State) in that game and was 23 for 27 passing with a TD and no picks. That is "shaky QB play?"

After, or maybe even during, the Elon game, everything changed. The offensive line was suddenly unable to offer pass protection and the offensive playcalling, in my opinion, became bizarre. DiNucci, who had previously been offered very good pass protection, was running for his life most of the time and forcing the ball, trying to make something, anything good, happen. Even with all of that, Nooch's stats were comparable to Schor's who did have a good O-line. Ben's completion percentage was actually better than Schor's. Yet, we continue to hear about "shaky QB play."

Also, even though playing four games less in 2018* than Schor did in 2017, DiNucci ran for more yards and nearly twice the YPC.... with a worse offensive line! Shaky!

I believe if we really studied all of last year's game film, we could see when the big drop in our offensive performance occurred and why. Without seeing all of that film, I believe Coach Cig simply outcoached Houston and got into his head and the heads of the entire staff, and they were never able to recover from it, spooked for the rest of the season into changing everything, going completely away from what worked prior to Elon. My opinion.

*DiNucci played only a quarter at Norfolk State and four minutes at New Hampshire, and we had fewer post-season games.
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2019 08:53 AM by Purple.)
08-15-2019 08:32 AM
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RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
All the guys in this thread who are claiming Nooch "has vastly improved" don't realize that betrays that he played poorly last season. Which is the point you guys fought me on all season long last season. If the dude was great last season we'd hear about how he's at the same level. Not improved a bunch.

I'm rooting for the guy, and I would LOVE to be wrong, but saying we don't have to worry about issues at QB because the coaches say he's come a long way? Come on.
08-15-2019 09:49 AM
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Wear Purple Online
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RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
[Image: giphy.gif]

[Image: giphy.gif]
08-15-2019 10:03 AM
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JMad03 Offline
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RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
(08-15-2019 08:32 AM)Purple Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 07:47 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 06:27 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 08:47 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 07:34 PM)2Buck Wrote:  Good thing don't need to worry about shaky QB play.

[Image: tenor.gif?itemid=13633891]

I love how so many are still worried about a QB that by all accounts has improved his game, ball security, is behind an improved line, and was named to the CFPA FCS National Performer of the Year watch list. There have now been two separate coaching staffs that have thought he gives us the best chance to win

So we have Cignetti (a QB) and Montgomery (coached Big Ben) and people think things aren't going to change at QB. Listen to Davis Cheek at Elon interviews about Cignetti and tell me he didn't make a difference.
DiNucci is no moron. I have far more confidence in him this year than last year. I think it's pretty much a guarantee that Ben won't be turning the ball over 4+ times a game or even 3 times a game. I say that because Cignetti won't accept it and will pull him... something Houston should have done both times (a series or two doesn't count).
If we lose games this season, it won't be due to QB play.

We didn't lose games last year due to poor QB play. When adequately protected and the playcalling plays to his strengths, DiNucci is a fine quarterback. I point to the NC State game last year where, if we had had our starting defensive secondary on the field, we might very well have won that game or at least made it even much closer than it was. By the way, Nooch led all rushers (even NC State) in that game and was 23 for 27 passing with a TD and no picks. That is "shaky QB play?"

After, or maybe even during, the Elon game, everything changed. The offensive line was suddenly unable to offer pass protection and the offensive playcalling, in my opinion, became bizarre. DiNucci, who had previously been offered very good pass protection, was running for his life most of the time and forcing the ball, trying to make something, anything good, happen. Even with all of that, Nooch's stats were comparable to Schor's who did have a good O-line. Ben's completion percentage was actually better than Schor's. Yet, we continue to hear about "shaky QB play."

Also, even though playing four games less in 2018* than Schor did in 2017, DiNucci ran for more yards and nearly twice the YPC.... with a worse offensive line! Shaky!

I believe if we really studied all of last year's game film, we could see when the big drop in our offensive performance occurred and why. Without seeing all of that film, I believe Coach Cig simply outcoached Houston and got into his head and the heads of the entire staff, and they were never able to recover from it, spooked for the rest of the season into changing everything, going completely away from what worked prior to Elon. My opinion.

*DiNucci played only a quarter at Norfolk State and four minutes at New Hampshire, and we had fewer post-season games.

I think that's a very fair assessment. Our O-line was definitely our weakness last year. Ben was running for his life quite a lot which I'm sure led to some poor decision making at times. The UNH game for example Ben's turnovers led to some very short fields for UNH.
That being said, there is still some blame that needs to go to Ben. You cannot make bad decisions like that and still be allowed to be in the game. I am still scratching my head on why Houston left him in.
Looking forward to this year, if there's any position that will benefit the most it will be the QB position. I also don't think Cignetti is the kind of guy to sugar coat things. Cignetti knew our team's weaknesses and was the perfect guy to replace Houston. He has been working to eliminate those weaknesses and based on camps, at least on offense the line seems to be doing very well and good decisions are being made at QB.
If this season DiNucci is making poor decisions, then he deserves the criticizing. Until then, give him a chance to show that he has learned from his mistakes and how much better this entire offense will be when you have a good offensive line.
08-15-2019 10:05 AM
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Longhorn Offline
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RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
(08-15-2019 09:49 AM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  All the guys in this thread who are claiming Nooch "has vastly improved" don't realize that betrays that he played poorly last season. Which is the point you guys fought me on all season long last season. If the dude was great last season we'd hear about how he's at the same level. Not improved a bunch.

I'm rooting for the guy, and I would LOVE to be wrong, but saying we don't have to worry about issues at QB because the coaches say he's come a long way? Come on.

Again, you appear to be missing the point...he didn’t have a poor year last year. Not an “All-American” year, but a good year none-the-less, and one where flashes of brilliance portend good things to come this season.

If you’re rooting for Ben, leave your worries behind, and let’s just root!

Go Dukes!
08-15-2019 10:12 AM
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RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
(08-15-2019 09:49 AM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  All the guys in this thread who are claiming Nooch "has vastly improved" don't realize that betrays that he played poorly last season. Which is the point you guys fought me on all season long last season. If the dude was great last season we'd hear about how he's at the same level. Not improved a bunch.

I'm rooting for the guy, and I would LOVE to be wrong, but saying we don't have to worry about issues at QB because the coaches say he's come a long way? Come on.

Who are "all the guys" saying he has improved? Where have the coaches said "he's come a long way"?

I have seen the direct opposite of what you are saying in that only one poster said he has "vastly improved" and both HC and OC (and Quincy Avery) are all quoted by Madia as saying he has had the talent but the consistency on throws was the only thing he needed to work on.

Maybe I'm missing the point but it seems like you are making up a fact pattern to try and validate your opinion that a QB threw for 15 TDs and 7 INTs in the regular season, rushed for 4 YPC and 9 more TDs behind a bad OL, and was 3rd in the nation in completion percentage was bad.
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2019 11:17 AM by DoubleDogDare.)
08-15-2019 11:14 AM
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RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
(08-15-2019 11:14 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 09:49 AM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  All the guys in this thread who are claiming Nooch "has vastly improved" don't realize that betrays that he played poorly last season. Which is the point you guys fought me on all season long last season. If the dude was great last season we'd hear about how he's at the same level. Not improved a bunch.

I'm rooting for the guy, and I would LOVE to be wrong, but saying we don't have to worry about issues at QB because the coaches say he's come a long way? Come on.

Who are "all the guys" saying he has improved? Where have the coaches said "he's come a long way"?

I have seen the direct opposite of what you are saying in that only one poster said he has "vastly improved" and both HC and OC (and Quincy Avery) are all quoted by Madia as saying he has had the talent but the consistency on throws was the only thing he needed to work on.

Maybe I'm missing the point but it seems like you are making up a fact pattern to try and validate your opinion that a QB threw for 15 TDs and 7 INTs in the regular season, rushed for 4 YPC and 9 more TDs behind a bad OL, and was 3rd in the nation in completion percentage was bad.

Exactly!
08-15-2019 01:26 PM
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Purple Offline
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RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
(08-15-2019 10:12 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 09:49 AM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  All the guys in this thread who are claiming Nooch "has vastly improved" don't realize that betrays that he played poorly last season. Which is the point you guys fought me on all season long last season. If the dude was great last season we'd hear about how he's at the same level. Not improved a bunch.

I'm rooting for the guy, and I would LOVE to be wrong, but saying we don't have to worry about issues at QB because the coaches say he's come a long way? Come on.

Again, you appear to be missing the point...he didn’t have a poor year last year. Not an “All-American” year, but a good year none-the-less, and one where flashes of brilliance portend good things to come this season.

If you’re rooting for Ben, leave your worries behind, and let’s just root!

Go Dukes!

Yep!
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2019 10:12 AM by Purple.)
08-15-2019 01:27 PM
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RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
Ben is a good guy, and I think he is a competitor and want the best for him. But there's a big difference between practice and games.

So until we see him perform well under pressure...

[Image: giphy.gif]
08-15-2019 01:51 PM
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RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
(08-15-2019 09:49 AM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  All the guys in this thread who are claiming Nooch "has vastly improved" don't realize that betrays that he played poorly last season. Which is the point you guys fought me on all season long last season. If the dude was great last season we'd hear about how he's at the same level. Not improved a bunch.

I'm rooting for the guy, and I would LOVE to be wrong, but saying we don't have to worry about issues at QB because the coaches say he's come a long way? Come on.

Poor coaching leads to poor performance! Competitors learn from their mistakes. With that said, Ben will have a great year.

Also Madia, stop liking Mike Houston Twitter posts. I don't care about his staff. Big John... Really... last I checked we are JMU not ECU. You best check yourself
08-15-2019 08:28 PM
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Purple Offline
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RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
(08-15-2019 08:03 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 07:47 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  So we have Cignetti (a QB) and Montgomery (coached Big Ben) and people think things aren't going to change at QB. Listen to Davis Cheek at Elon interviews about Cignetti and tell me he didn't make a difference.
DiNucci is no moron. I have far more confidence in him this year than last year. I think it's pretty much a guarantee that Ben won't be turning the ball over 4+ times a game or even 3 times a game. I say that because Cignetti won't accept it and will pull him... something Houston should have done both times (a series or two doesn't count).
If we lose games this season, it won't be due to QB play.

Bingo! Time to let the past be the past. Also, time to get behind Shane Montgomery's "new" Big Ben...as in the Nooch. No need to beat anymore dead horses about our QB's.

Really looking forward to seeing Percy (hopefully) getting ~20 touches. He, like all backs, need some creases from the OL to be effective of course. I just like how in the sample size we've seen his first 2 years, he always seems to be falling forward and getting an extra 2-3 yards at minimum even when being gang tackled.

I also look forward to seeing our WR corps, which I am bullish on surprising us fans this fall. Nothing against Stapleton. I definitely look forward to his return as his size is a weapon and his experience is invaluable. I do think though that we have some receivers with speed who given space in the open field are going to have some 'wow' moments - hopefully early on in Morgantown of course.

I agree. Percy averaged over 9 yards per tote last year. He is going to kill some defenses this season.

Likewise, speed at WR is going to be money. Most looking forward to 4.3 Brandon Polk making some defenses look bad.

As good as we always are on D, I see the offense really coming alive this year more than ever.
08-15-2019 09:20 PM
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RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
(08-15-2019 01:51 PM)2Buck Wrote:  Ben is a good guy, and I think he is a competitor and want the best for him. But there's a big difference between practice and games.

So until we see him perform well under pressure...

[Image: giphy.gif]

Translation: Nooch is a f**khead and worthless quarterback. If he throws for 10,000 yards this year for at least 80% completion rate, 100 touchdowns, and less than 4 interceptions, I will concede that maybe, possibly, if he had another year left, he could potentially be considered not the suckiest quarterback to ever play at JMU.

Just kidding! I know 2Buck is a rooter! But, honestly, sometimes it seems that some people's expectations are beyond realistic.

Furthermore, if by "pressure," you mean locked in a paper pocket with three or four defenders hanging off of him, I agree, he has to find a way to be Houdini and turn that into a 30-yard gain every time.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2019 06:36 AM by Purple.)
08-15-2019 09:26 PM
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Jmufan2018 Offline
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RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
Blind QB comparison of season statistics:
QB1: 214 yards/game, 65% completion, 14 INTs, 26 TDs, QB rating 144
Rushing: 21 yards/game, 2.2 yards/rush, 7 TDs

QB2: 175 yards/game, 68% completion, 12 INTs, 16 TDs, QB rating 139
Rushing: 33 yards/game, 4.0 yards/rush, 9 TDs
08-15-2019 10:07 PM
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Purple Offline
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RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
(08-15-2019 10:07 PM)Jmufan2018 Wrote:  Blind QB comparison of season statistics:
QB1: 214 yards/game, 65% completion, 14 INTs, 26 TDs, QB rating 144
Rushing: 21 yards/game, 2.2 yards/rush, 7 TDs

QB2: 175 yards/game, 68% completion, 12 INTs, 16 TDs, QB rating 139
Rushing: 33 yards/game, 4.0 yards/rush, 9 TDs

The glaring stat there is 26 TDs compared to 16. What doesn't show is the relative quality of offensive line play and the fact that Nooch played four less games than Schor.

Nooch should be a 1,000-yard rusher, averaging at least 70 or 80 yards per game on a consistent basis. If he is doing that, and he can, he is creating the biggest problem for defenses, thus the greatest advantage for JMU. Restricting him to a paper pocket (poor offensive line) only gives the defense a huge advantage. Rolling, reading, and creating, Nooch is a defensive nightmare.
08-16-2019 06:19 AM
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RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
(08-16-2019 06:19 AM)Purple Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 10:07 PM)Jmufan2018 Wrote:  Blind QB comparison of season statistics:
QB1: 214 yards/game, 65% completion, 14 INTs, 26 TDs, QB rating 144
Rushing: 21 yards/game, 2.2 yards/rush, 7 TDs

QB2: 175 yards/game, 68% completion, 12 INTs, 16 TDs, QB rating 139
Rushing: 33 yards/game, 4.0 yards/rush, 9 TDs

The glaring stat there is 26 TDs compared to 16. What doesn't show is the relative quality of offensive line play and the fact that Nooch played four less games than Schor.

Nooch should be a 1,000-yard rusher, averaging at least 70 or 80 yards per game on a consistent basis. If he is doing that, and he can, he is creating the biggest problem for defenses, thus the greatest advantage for JMU. Restricting him to a paper pocket (poor offensive line) only gives the defense a huge advantage. Rolling, reading, and creating, Nooch is a defensive nightmare.

Exactly. Interviews with opposing team head coaches have said DiNucci is a pain to prepare for. At the least, he forces other teams to have to spend extra time figuring out how to stop him. Even if he had a 'meh' game, he adds a dimension to this offense that can create nightmares for opposing teams that have to prepare.
Last year's DiNucci is gone. He's getting picked apart and the guy hasn't even been under center yet this year. If he is our starter, this coaching staff has the belief in him that he is not just our QB, but a leader.
I don't know how you can't root for a guy that truly wants to play his best for JMU. I've heard plenty of interviews and he comes across as the type of guy you would want to lead your offense. He admits he needs to improve and appears to be putting in the work.
08-16-2019 07:35 AM
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RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
(08-15-2019 10:07 PM)Jmufan2018 Wrote:  Blind QB comparison of season statistics:
QB1: 214 yards/game, 65% completion, 14 INTs, 26 TDs, QB rating 144
Rushing: 21 yards/game, 2.2 yards/rush, 7 TDs

QB2: 175 yards/game, 68% completion, 12 INTs, 16 TDs, QB rating 139
Rushing: 33 yards/game, 4.0 yards/rush, 9 TDs

I believe the point of the post was to show that it is a toss up, but obviously some people put extra focus on the base TD/INT metrics and say QB1 is markedly better. I offer;
(1) Both QBs averaged ~0.93 INTs per game (QB1 - .933 and QB2 .923). But same metrics presented a different way, QB1 threw an INT in 80% of games and QB2 was only 54%.
(2) QB1 played the entire game against ETSU (5 TDs) but QB2 only played 1 quarter at NSU (0 TDs). Taking out those passing TDs and are you are down to 21 passing TDs for QB1 in 14 games and 16 passing TDs for QB2 in 12 games. Both QBs only played a half and a drive in the other cupcakes (NSU for QB1, Robert Morris for QB2).
(3) Clearly QB2 had a very bad game to end the season. QB1 had their worse game statistically (0 TDs and 2 INTs) in their last game of the season. Taking away both QBs last game and QB1 has 12 INTs and QB2 has 7.

So let me present some adjusted stats based on above. Clearly the adjusted numbers are not what actually happened. However, I think it is a fair way to look at things by removing the cupcakes and worst game of the season for both QBs and adjusting the per game stats based on the number of quarters actually played.
QB1: 214 yards/game, 65% completion, 12 INTs, 21 TDs, QB rating 144 (? update)
Rushing: 21 yards/game, 2.2 yards/rush, 7 TDs
Total: 235 yards/game, 28 TDs, 12 INTs, 1.75 passing TD-INT ratio -- Removed 5 TDs from ETSU, 2 INTs from NDSU and no adjustment to games played

QB2: 198 yards/game , 68% completion, 7 INTs, 16 TDs, QB rating 139 (? update)
Rushing: 38 yards/game, 4.0 yards/rush, 9 TDs
Total: 236 yards/game, 25 TDs, 7 INTs, 2.28 passing TD-INT ratio --- Removed 0 TDs from NSU, 5 INTs from Colgate and adjusted from 13 games to 11.5 for the 3 missed quarters at NSU and the 3 quarters of sitting at UNH.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2019 09:02 AM by DoubleDogDare.)
08-16-2019 08:52 AM
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HyperDuke Offline
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RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
Seriously, judging him for less TDs? How many TDs do you think he might have added if they played more than a quarter at NSU?
08-16-2019 08:56 AM
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RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
(08-16-2019 08:56 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Seriously, judging him for less TDs? How many TDs do you think he might have added if they played more than a quarter at NSU?

To legitimately answer your question, probably 0. It was wet, we were averaging 8.2 yards per carry and Ben was only 1 for 6 with 5 straight incompletions. Amos was going to return every other punt for a TD and the defense would have scored a TD limiting the time the offense was on the field in Q2. The blow out would have meant Ben wouldn't have played after the first drive of the the second half.

But I get your point and think my adjusted stats in the post above are a better picture.
08-16-2019 09:18 AM
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AllForDukes Offline
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RE: 2019 Football Training Camp Thread
DiNucci is infinitely better than last year where he was held back by the other 104 rostered players.
The o-line is still suspect until proven otherwise, despite any press, off season work, new coach etc.etc.etc.

Same as in most situations lately, everybody is talking and nobody is listening.

Now, can we move on.
08-16-2019 09:42 AM
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