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Rasser Offline
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Post: #1
Think it might be time.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-cong...ill/8/text

By no means a cure all, but maybe a start?
(This post was last modified: 08-04-2019 12:22 PM by Rasser.)
08-04-2019 12:22 PM
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Brindlee2015 Offline
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RE: Think it might be time.
(08-04-2019 12:22 PM)Rasser Wrote:  https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-cong...ill/8/text

By no means a cure all, but maybe a start?

It'll stop nothing.

El Paso is right across the border from Juarez. There's a metric sht-ton of weapons all over Juarez. And the border there is so porous that it'd be nothing to run guns back and forth. Already happens.

This is an incredibly complex issue that has, at its core, a simple truth. People suck. And really sucky people do really sucky things.
08-04-2019 12:56 PM
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Fthechips Offline
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RE: Think it might be time.
(08-04-2019 12:56 PM)Brindlee2015 Wrote:  
(08-04-2019 12:22 PM)Rasser Wrote:  https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-cong...ill/8/text

By no means a cure all, but maybe a start?

It'll stop nothing.

El Paso is right across the border from Juarez. There's a metric sht-ton of weapons all over Juarez. And the border there is so porous that it'd be nothing to run guns back and forth. Already happens.

This is an incredibly complex issue that has, at its core, a simple truth. People suck. And really sucky people do really sucky things.

Yea this would turn out to just end up like the war on drugs.
08-04-2019 01:19 PM
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Broncos83 Offline
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RE: Think it might be time.
Yeah, 29 dead and 55 injured in a span of 13 hours!...no need to take any action at all. President Marmalade did not pull the trigger but NO DOUBT incites these young white punks (Yes...I am white but no longer young). He’s a divider and inciter...plain and simple. I support the 2nd Amendment but there is no excuse for how things have evolved. BAN assault weapons (NO need for weapons of war), limit the ammo clips, attack these white supremicist groups just like you would international terrorists and add countless other common sense reforms. By the way, Dayton is about 1,500 miles from Juarez so I guess that explanation doesn’t fly in their case! El Paso averages about 18 murders per year which is damn good for a city of that size so I’m not buying the Juarez blame card.
08-04-2019 01:23 PM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Think it might be time.
Right, we have a problem. I think everyone can agree to that? Or can they?

Problem definition first. Second, garner potential solutions. Third. Execute attempts at solving, striving at progress, not perfection.

Doing nothing isn't ok anymore, right? Or is it? Is that what I'm hearing? "Too complex for (insert X reason here) so we can't attempt to solve it because we like our guns.

FWIW, I'm a multi gun owner, I respect them and the damage they can do very much. They are handled and treated accordingly.

I've heard...."mental health". I've heard "video games". I've heard "lack of prayer in schools" as the root cause. Are we supposed to believe that we're the only industrialized first world country that has issues with mental health, has kids that grew up playing video games, and that doesn't have prayer in schools?

Within a 7 mile radius of my house, there have been two school mass shootings, and a theatre shooting in the last 6 years. Not to mention Columbine 20 years ago. So again, do nothing? Don't try? Pretend that once per week is acceptable for a mass shooting?

Is nothing an option any longer? More guns? That's going to work? How?
(This post was last modified: 08-04-2019 04:15 PM by Rasser.)
08-04-2019 01:41 PM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Think it might be time.
(08-04-2019 12:56 PM)Brindlee2015 Wrote:  
(08-04-2019 12:22 PM)Rasser Wrote:  https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-cong...ill/8/text

By no means a cure all, but maybe a start?

It'll stop nothing.

El Paso is right across the border from Juarez. There's a metric sht-ton of weapons all over Juarez. And the border there is so porous that it'd be nothing to run guns back and forth. Already happens.

This is an incredibly complex issue that has, at its core, a simple truth. People suck. And really sucky people do really sucky things.

Yeah, but Dayton, people were out enjoying a recently redeveloped and thriving downtown area (Oregon). Plus, the kid drove 9 hours to do his shooting in El Paso. Just a matter of time before someone does something in a much larger venue, inflicting mass casualties. In the name of their cause, their "issues", or their video games. Oklahoma City style. It's happened before, I'm not talking out of my chute here.

We're sick to the core, and unable to even address the issues as a society.
(This post was last modified: 08-04-2019 01:56 PM by Rasser.)
08-04-2019 01:48 PM
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Fthechips Offline
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RE: Think it might be time.
(08-04-2019 01:23 PM)Broncos83 Wrote:  Yeah, 29 dead and 55 injured in a span of 13 hours!...no need to take any action at all. President Marmalade did not pull the trigger but NO DOUBT incites these young white punks (Yes...I am white but no longer young). He’s a divider and inciter...plain and simple. I support the 2nd Amendment but there is no excuse for how things have evolved. BAN assault weapons (NO need for weapons of war), limit the ammo clips, attack these white supremicist groups just like you would international terrorists and add countless other common sense reforms. By the way, Dayton is about 1,500 miles from Juarez so I guess that explanation doesn’t fly in their case! El Paso averages about 18 murders per year which is damn good for a city of that size so I’m not buying the Juarez blame card.

I don't think banning anything is gonna solve the problem, all that will do is restrict law abiding citizens and make it even harder for them to exercise their rights. Just like we saw it with prohibition and now the war on drugs, simply banning something does not work. Dayton is 1,500 miles from Juarez yes, so you think there is no Mexican cocaine in Dayton too? Where do you think all these illegal drugs and guns come from? Canada?
08-04-2019 03:22 PM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Think it might be time.
Quote:all that will do is restrict law abiding citizens

That's true of any law.

Quote:I don't think banning anything is gonna solve the problem

Other countries have. It did work. Not saying that's the solution here, but discounting at face value rings really hollow.

Quote:Dayton is 1,500 miles from Juarez yes, so you think there is no Mexican cocaine in Dayton too? Where do you think all these illegal drugs and guns come from? Canada?

Think those drugs are just from Mexico? No makeshift (and professional) labs on our soil? Our big pharma companies played a hand in our last drug addiction crisis.

Are you saying guns come from Mexico?
(This post was last modified: 08-04-2019 03:47 PM by Rasser.)
08-04-2019 03:45 PM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Think it might be time.
(08-04-2019 12:22 PM)Rasser Wrote:  https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-cong...ill/8/text

By no means a cure all, but maybe a start?

BTW, back on topic to the original post......This was passed by the house, #MoscowMitch is blocking this bill from even getting an up or down vote on the floor. Just like he is with the proposed bill to try to help secure our voting from foreign interference.
(This post was last modified: 08-04-2019 04:22 PM by Rasser.)
08-04-2019 04:21 PM
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Broncos83 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Think it might be time.
Never fear...President Trump just said “we’re going to fix it”. But wait...what happened to his “I alone can fix it” mantra. Is he evolving? Doubt it. Realizing governing is pretty damn difficult? Doubt it. I’m sure he’ll be right on top of the issue once he returns from his NJ golf course. More likely he’ll have a discussion with the NRA heads on his way back to the White House and let this blow over until the next shooting. If Sandy Hook and Vegas led to no action...I’m sure the last 24 hours will be a blip in the radar.
(This post was last modified: 08-04-2019 05:50 PM by Broncos83.)
08-04-2019 05:49 PM
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Rasser Offline
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RE: Think it might be time.
(08-04-2019 05:49 PM)Broncos83 Wrote:  Never fear...President Trump just said “we’re going to fix it”. But wait...what happened to his “I alone can fix it” mantra. Is he evolving? Doubt it. Realizing governing is pretty damn difficult? Doubt it. I’m sure he’ll be right on top of the issue once he returns from his NJ golf course. More likely he’ll have a discussion with the NRA heads on his way back to the White House and let this blow over until the next shooting. If Sandy Hook and Vegas led to no action...I’m sure the last 24 hours will be a blip in the radar.

Waiting for Trump to denounce the White Nationalist Terrorists by name.
(This post was last modified: 08-04-2019 05:58 PM by Rasser.)
08-04-2019 05:56 PM
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Broncos83 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Think it might be time.
Sorry to say...don’t hold your breath waiting. Such a statement would put a lot of his votes from the “deplorables” (yes... I said it and I mean it!) at risk. A portion of his base is without question deplorable. How many of the recent shooting or bombing suspects have been Trump supporters? A pretty good percentage. You can’t argue that these particular supporters are not deplorable.
(This post was last modified: 08-04-2019 06:09 PM by Broncos83.)
08-04-2019 06:05 PM
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Rasser Offline
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RE: Think it might be time.
(08-04-2019 06:05 PM)Broncos83 Wrote:  Sorry to say...don’t hold your breath waiting. Such a statement would put a lot of his votes from the “deplorables” (yes... I said it and I mean it!) at risk. A portion of his base is without question deplorable. How many of the recent shooting or bombing suspects have been Trump supporters? A pretty good percentage. You can’t argue that these particular supporters are not deplorable.

They sure made a big deal out of Obama not saying "Islamic Radical Terrorists" didn't they? Time for see them put up.
08-04-2019 06:23 PM
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Broncos83 Offline
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RE: Think it might be time.
Seriously...why in the world does any human (especially a 24 year old) not participating in a real war need an automatic weapon fitted with a 100 round drum of bullets??? That’s the ammo the Dayton shooter was armed with. In fact, he may have had two drums! That’s how you kill 9 people in 24 seconds. Serious question...what would one use this for? Sport? Doesn’t seem like much of a contest if so.
(This post was last modified: 08-04-2019 06:39 PM by Broncos83.)
08-04-2019 06:27 PM
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Rasser Offline
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RE: Think it might be time.
(08-04-2019 06:27 PM)Broncos83 Wrote:  Seriously...why in the world does any human not participating in an real war need an automatic weapon with a 100 round drum of bullets??? That’s the ammo the Dayton shooter was armed with. In fact, he may have had two drums! That’s how you kill 9 people in 24 seconds. Serious question...what would one use this for? Sport? Doesn’t seem like much of a contest if so.

I'm a gun owner, have had the opportunity to shoot these AK's and AR style guns at ranges and out in the country shooting. Guns are serious business, holding one of those that's been outfitted with a bump stock, just feels like a slip up could have unreal ramifications. I feel that way ALL THE TIME with guns in general.

So Trump just did it, he recited the NRA talking point that his minions have been floating all day.

"We have a mental illness problem". FFS!

So this just in, Fox Network's high ratings just explained in the same sentence as our mass shooting problem.

If that's their attempt at smoothing this over for now, then I'm not kidding. The NRA in their desperation to rationalize this is right, we have a mental illness problem. Thing is, they're part of the problem.
08-04-2019 06:33 PM
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Fthechips Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Think it might be time.
Quote:I don't think banning anything is gonna solve the problem

Other countries have. It did work. Not saying that's the solution here, but discounting at face value rings really hollow.

Quote:

Where has it worked?
08-05-2019 12:39 PM
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Fthechips Offline
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RE: Think it might be time.
(08-04-2019 06:05 PM)Broncos83 Wrote:  Sorry to say...don’t hold your breath waiting. Such a statement would put a lot of his votes from the “deplorables” (yes... I said it and I mean it!) at risk. A portion of his base is without question deplorable. How many of the recent shooting or bombing suspects have been Trump supporters? A pretty good percentage. You can’t argue that these particular supporters are not deplorable.

Plz stop! Your'e really gonna try and tie Trump to mass shootings?! That's disgusting! How about the left's Antifa squad? Burning down cities and inciting violent riots. Also, wasn't the Dayton shooter a bernie/warren supporter?
08-05-2019 12:42 PM
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Fthechips Offline
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RE: Think it might be time.
(08-04-2019 06:33 PM)Rasser Wrote:  [quote='Broncos83' pid='16223843' dateline='1564961260']
Seriously...why in the world does any human not participating in a real war need an automatic weapon with a 100 round drum of bullets??? That’s the ammo the Dayton shooter was armed with. In fact, he may have had two drums! That’s how you kill 9 people in 24 seconds. Serious question...what would one use this for? Sport? Doesn’t seem like much of a contest if so.

You mean the drum mags that are already illegal in most states and obtained illegally? Sure go ahead and ban the "scary looking" GI joe AR-15s but then these criminals are just gonna go ahead and obtain illegally outfitted weapons or shotguns, handguns, etc.
08-05-2019 12:46 PM
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Aimless1 Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Think it might be time.
I own guns, I hunt and I shoot for fun. I would be fine with being inconvenienced or intrusive back ground checks if they are part of a comprehensive solution. I also am okay with banning certain firearms like the aR-15 or aK-17. I am also willing to give mine up if it helps solve the mass shooting epidemic that ONLY afflicts the USA t this degree.

I am happy to pay higher taxes to support mental health programs or other programs that part of the solution. I support the elimination of laws which restrict or limit scientific investigation into mass shootings.

Rather than rip each other it would be better to put your solutions on the table for examination. Too easy to rip a position apart. Time to explore the possible positive effect of the solutions offered, not just the negatives.

Not thought out but we should seriously consider limiting the possession of firearms to those who are age 30 or older. Mass shootings seem to be caused by White males under the age of 30 for the most part. Exhaustive background checks with all Federal and State law enforcement agencies would help eliminate some of the shooters. A 90 day waiting period to take possession of a firearm also seems reasonable to both offer a cooling off period for the buyer and to give law enforcement ample time to complete a back ground check. Limit all clips to 10 rounds or less and eliminate any accessories that can either increase capacity or the speed at which rounds can be fired (think bump stocks). Invest in mental health treatment and identification so we can reach out and treat those most in need.

Exhaustive? nope. Realistic? Most likely not. Reasonable? Depends on whether an average of one mass shooting a day qualifies as an epidemic. Have something better to offer? Put it out there. Wan to rip? Go ahead, but offer a credible alternative solution. From an economics viewpoint, limit supply (possession) and demand (mental health). Seems to be the two largest contributing factors.

Have fun with this one lads
08-05-2019 01:48 PM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Think it might be time.
(08-05-2019 12:39 PM)Fthechips Wrote:  
Quote:I don't think banning anything is gonna solve the problem

Other countries have. It did work. Not saying that's the solution here, but discounting at face value rings really hollow.

Quote:

Where has it worked?

Australia for starters. GBR doesn't experience a mass shooting problem very often either, do they?
08-05-2019 02:12 PM
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