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MajorHoople Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Think it might be time.
Guess there weren't enough "good guys with guns" in the El Paso Wal-Mart, especially Texas being an open carry state.
08-06-2019 07:03 PM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Think it might be time.
(08-06-2019 06:31 PM)Fthechips Wrote:  
(08-06-2019 03:05 PM)Aimless1 Wrote:  
(08-06-2019 02:35 PM)Fthechips Wrote:  
(08-06-2019 08:57 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(08-06-2019 08:36 AM)Rasser Wrote:  So, it's not an issue then? We have a mass shooting, weekly now.

Guns are only as deadly as the person using them.
2017 there were over 70,000 deaths from drug overdoses. You've had a 2 fold increase in deadly overdoses in the past 10 years. Its trend line is very similar to mass shootings. Obviously there are more underlying societal causes than gun ownership. Some people want to treat symptoms of the illness instead of underlying causes of the disease. 29 people in the US are killed everyday by a drunk driver. Ready to ban alcoholic beverages?

Funny how the media portrays things. Wasn't the mass shooter in Dayton a Bernie/Warren Supporter? Yet not a peep from CNN about that. Sure you want to ban "weapons of war" what happens when these people just turn to using handguns or homemade explosives or using cars??? Wasn't the Virginia tech shooting one of the biggest school shootings in history and that was used with two pistols??? Two huge shootings in inner city Chicago the other day with handguns yet no coverage from CNN on it. If the left was really concerned about gun violence then they would go after handguns, not long rifles. Don't believe everything you see on CNN, they love to pick and choose their facts and stories.

Let's get the Fox vs CNN debate. All news is slanted. Those two networks are particularly bad albeit in opposite directions. Time for the discussion to change from right vs left, conservative vs liberal, gun owners vs anti guns. Let's acknowledge we have a gun violence issue and work together to solve it.

If a mass shooting is defined as 4 or more deaths, then we have one per day. Whether it be a drive by shooting or a domestic quarrel, guns are routinely used to kill others.

So, Fthechips, would you agree that the USA has a gun violence problem? If so, what is your solution(s) for solving it.

Yes we have a gun violence problem, but not until recently. We’ve had guns around for centuries and never had an issue until recently. What has changed? I don’t think more regulation and more confiscation is the answer, the federal government sucks, why would you give them more control and more responsibility?! To be honest, I don’t know what the solution is. There are sick people out there and they will use whatever tools they can get their hands on. For school shootings, I think fortifying the schools with metal detectors and armed guards is a step in the right direction, surprised that hasn’t been federally mandated yet. There’s a lot of statistics out there that support guns, when you take guns away, violent crime rises, guns save way more people each year than they kill. If we want to solve the real gun violence problem shouldn’t we be targeting hand guns and not the leftist talking point of banning “weapons of war”. Most if not all guns can be modified illegally to become weapons of war, that’s what every gun is... a weapon of war.

Cancer, hear disease, strokes, suicides, opioids, drunk driving all kill more people per day than guns do. Yet the media seems so much more concerned about guns.

What a lame diatribe of NRA/GOP talking points! Fortifying schools huh? Yeah I taught in a school with armed guards, retired police at each entrance. Guess what?! Shootings happened and they were there to call the ambulance. That Hannity idea has flown pal.

Why are we the only country to experience mass shootings like we do?
08-06-2019 07:14 PM
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Aimless1 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Think it might be time.
Thank you. I appreciate your perspective and your views. Absolutely agree all guns are designed and manufactured to kill. That is their purpose. Target practice, skeet, trap, sporting clays, wobble trap & etc it is ultimately a substitution for for killing or practice in proficiency to kill.

Like you, I do not have solutions and honestly, it is difficult to identify the problem so we can address and correct it. I do think we all need to work together to find meaningful action. We differ about access. I personally have no problem with long waiting periods and more intensive background checks. Won't eliminate crimes of passion or death and injury caused in the course of committing a criminal act. Does make it more difficult to legally acquire a gun. It is always possible to acquire what you want illegally no matter what it is.

Zealots and radicals will always live among us. Seems like we need to do a better job of identifying potential threats ... but not at the risk of becoming a police state. Can be argued we are almost one now. Which brings me to armed guards at school. Seems we need to carefully consider all aspects of that plan. Do our children become prisoners of the school? Will this lead to a prison like school environment? Are children better protected with armed guards? I actually contend not, especially after talking to school security people.

Therein lies the rub. The balance point between American freedom and restriction of our rights and privilege or government instrusion into our lives. We don't want a police state. We don't want big brother. We don't want a dictator or tyrant. We long for the "old" days when it was possible to walk the streets without worry. I believe those days are long gone and will never return.
08-06-2019 07:17 PM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Think it might be time.
(08-06-2019 07:03 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  Guess there weren't enough "good guys with guns" in the El Paso Wal-Mart, especially Texas being an open carry state.

Funny how western territory’s wanted to become states as a step to become less lawless, huh? Now we want to go back to the wild Wild West?! I think not.

Especially when more and more are tied to White Supremacist Terrorism.
08-06-2019 07:18 PM
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Aimless1 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Think it might be time.
So Rasser, what is your solution(s)? It takes more than regulation and is more regulation really the answer? Do we beat all private firearms into plowshares?
08-06-2019 07:35 PM
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okgc Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Think it might be time.
59 shot, 7 fatally in Chicago weekend shootings | abc7chicago.com
https://abc7chicago.com/59-shot-7-fatall...s/5443785/
— - - - -

Basically ignored in National news are USA big city shootings. 1643 people shot with 278 deaths in Greater Chicago alone so far this year. About 95% of victims are non-white.
08-06-2019 07:50 PM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Think it might be time.
(08-06-2019 07:35 PM)Aimless1 Wrote:  So Rasser, what is your solution(s)? It takes more than regulation and is more regulation really the answer? Do we beat all private firearms into plowshares?

I don't claim to have "the answers". Did you read my posts or just trying to start something? Cutting to the solution is part of our problem.

I think we as a society need to get an agreement that it's a problem, without rationalizing it that there are more addictions, deaths by cancer, that it's caused by video games, that prayer in schools would solve it or my FAVORITE....wait for it......it's not a problem because lot's of people die in Chicago by shootings. "But Chicago" ranks up there with "But Hillary" by you mouth breathers.

If we can do that without the purposeful Joseph Goebbel's style confusing of the issues and deflecting the attention, then I think we can get somewhere.

We are the only civilized society that faces the risk we face of leaving home and being a victim of a mass shooting that is unprovoked and the shooter is unknown to us.

The one's that are domestic terrorism are even more unacceptable.
(This post was last modified: 08-06-2019 10:25 PM by Rasser.)
08-06-2019 10:21 PM
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Fthechips Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Think it might be time.
(08-06-2019 10:21 PM)Rasser Wrote:  
(08-06-2019 07:35 PM)Aimless1 Wrote:  So Rasser, what is your solution(s)? It takes more than regulation and is more regulation really the answer? Do we beat all private firearms into plowshares?

I don't claim to have "the answers". Did you read my posts or just trying to start something? Cutting to the solution is part of our problem.

I think we as a society need to get an agreement that it's a problem, without rationalizing it that there are more addictions, deaths by cancer, that it's caused by video games, that prayer in schools would solve it or my FAVORITE....wait for it......it's not a problem because lot's of people die in Chicago by shootings. "But Chicago" ranks up there with "But Hillary" by you mouth breathers.

If we can do that without the purposeful Joseph Goebbel's style confusing of the issues and deflecting the attention, then I think we can get somewhere.

We are the only civilized society that faces the risk we face of leaving home and being a victim of a mass shooting that is unprovoked and the shooter is unknown to us.

The one's that are domestic terrorism are even more unacceptable.

Yes we have a gun violence problem, but there are MANY more things killing us in much greater numbers. The statistics however, are in favor of keeping guns around. You can call them republican talking points all you want but those are the facts.

PS. The UK has a ban on most guns yet they have 3 times the amount of violent crime as us, so you do the math.
(This post was last modified: 08-06-2019 11:53 PM by Fthechips.)
08-06-2019 11:43 PM
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Aimless1 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Think it might be time.
Rasser, you spew a lot of words and say very little. An honest question looking for discussion and not argument. Apparently you don't have anything constructive to offer, which is fine.

I have a sense we all agree gun violence is a problem. So if "cutting to the solution is part of our problem" what are the issues we need to address? Intelligent rational people should be able to discuss whether or not we agree.
08-07-2019 05:36 AM
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Boca Rocket Online
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Post: #50
RE: Think it might be time.
Interesting that this El Paso shooter's manifesto is not really discussed. This guy was a ecofascist.
Believed that immigrants posed a threat to the ecology. Fighting for climate justice.Doesn't seem that Trump would be a big inspiration to him.
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2019 08:17 AM by Boca Rocket.)
08-07-2019 05:46 AM
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ess Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Think it might be time.
Quote:An honest question looking for discussion and not argument.

An honest discussion should begin by trying to understand the (root) cause(s) of the problem.

What are the reasons for this phenomena?

What research has been done?

What have the results shown?
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2019 05:48 AM by ess.)
08-07-2019 05:47 AM
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GRBRONCO Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Think it might be time.
(08-06-2019 10:21 PM)Rasser Wrote:  
(08-06-2019 07:35 PM)Aimless1 Wrote:  So Rasser, what is your solution(s)? It takes more than regulation and is more regulation really the answer? Do we beat all private firearms into plowshares?

I don't claim to have "the answers". Did you read my posts or just trying to start something? Cutting to the solution is part of our problem.

I think we as a society need to get an agreement that it's a problem, without rationalizing it that there are more addictions, deaths by cancer, that it's caused by video games, that prayer in schools would solve it or my FAVORITE....wait for it......it's not a problem because lot's of people die in Chicago by shootings. "But Chicago" ranks up there with "But Hillary" by you mouth breathers.

If we can do that without the purposeful Joseph Goebbel's style confusing of the issues and deflecting the attention, then I think we can get somewhere.

We are the only civilized society that faces the risk we face of leaving home and being a victim of a mass shooting that is unprovoked and the shooter is unknown to us.

The one's that are domestic terrorism are even more unacceptable.

Well, lifetime odds of this happening are around 1/12000. Similar odds of dying from a heat wave. If you want to spend time worrying about that go ahead. I'll go live my life. Make sure you stay indoors with AC on really hot days.
08-07-2019 06:19 AM
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Broncos83 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Think it might be time.
GRBRONCO, Wow! Do you have kids, grandkids? Might want to think about someone other than yourself. Trust me, the anxiety level among young people/students has significantly ramped up due directly to the shooting rampages. I guess you’re one of those “tough guys”! Don’t know the answers but clearly the status quo is not working.
08-07-2019 07:51 AM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Think it might be time.
(08-07-2019 05:36 AM)Aimless1 Wrote:  Rasser, you spew a lot of words and say very little. An honest question looking for discussion and not argument. Apparently you don't have anything constructive to offer, which is fine.

I have a sense we all agree gun violence is a problem. So if "cutting to the solution is part of our problem" what are the issues we need to address? Intelligent rational people should be able to discuss whether or not we agree.

I’m not getting that sense at all. You can’t solve a problem without a problem definition.
08-07-2019 08:31 AM
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Boca Rocket Online
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Post: #55
RE: Think it might be time.
(08-07-2019 07:51 AM)Broncos83 Wrote:  GRBRONCO, Wow! Do you have kids, grandkids? Might want to think about someone other than yourself. Trust me, the anxiety level among young people/students has significantly ramped up due directly to the shooting rampages. I guess you’re one of those “tough guys”! Don’t know the answers but clearly the status quo is not working.

According to 2015 numbers your chance of dying in a mass shooting in the US is 1 in 11,125. Auto accident is 1 in 108. Heart disease 1 in 6.
08-07-2019 08:31 AM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Think it might be time.
(08-07-2019 06:19 AM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  
(08-06-2019 10:21 PM)Rasser Wrote:  
(08-06-2019 07:35 PM)Aimless1 Wrote:  So Rasser, what is your solution(s)? It takes more than regulation and is more regulation really the answer? Do we beat all private firearms into plowshares?

I don't claim to have "the answers". Did you read my posts or just trying to start something? Cutting to the solution is part of our problem.

I think we as a society need to get an agreement that it's a problem, without rationalizing it that there are more addictions, deaths by cancer, that it's caused by video games, that prayer in schools would solve it or my FAVORITE....wait for it......it's not a problem because lot's of people die in Chicago by shootings. "But Chicago" ranks up there with "But Hillary" by you mouth breathers.

If we can do that without the purposeful Joseph Goebbel's style confusing of the issues and deflecting the attention, then I think we can get somewhere.

We are the only civilized society that faces the risk we face of leaving home and being a victim of a mass shooting that is unprovoked and the shooter is unknown to us.

The one's that are domestic terrorism are even more unacceptable.

Well, lifetime odds of this happening are around 1/12000. Similar odds of dying from a heat wave. If you want to spend time worrying about that go ahead. I'll go live my life. Make sure you stay indoors with AC on really hot days.

Two mass shootings within 7 miles of my house in the last seven years, not including Columbine. Kalamazoo has the Uber driver not too long ago.

I have a personal friend who was a senior that day in Columbine. She was on CNN with a camera in her grill as her family was trying to find her.

You cite your odds, but any is too much and senseless. Sandy Hook and Parkland should have been a wake up call. If not then Vegas sure could have. These last two in two days is just surreal.

Somehow I wish the people and their families that DGAF about this would wear some detectable chain that emits “I DGAF so shoot me” so when the shooters are so inclined HE takes them. Only half kidding.
08-07-2019 08:37 AM
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Aimless1 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Think it might be time.
(08-07-2019 08:31 AM)Rasser Wrote:  
(08-07-2019 05:36 AM)Aimless1 Wrote:  Rasser, you spew a lot of words and say very little. An honest question looking for discussion and not argument. Apparently you don't have anything constructive to offer, which is fine.

I have a sense we all agree gun violence is a problem. So if "cutting to the solution is part of our problem" what are the issues we need to address? Intelligent rational people should be able to discuss whether or not we agree.

I’m not getting that sense at all. You can’t solve a problem without a problem definition.

So offer a definition of the problem. Otherwise the circle jerk continues with no progress.
08-07-2019 08:57 AM
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GRBRONCO Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Think it might be time.
(08-07-2019 07:51 AM)Broncos83 Wrote:  GRBRONCO, Wow! Do you have kids, grandkids? Might want to think about someone other than yourself. Trust me, the anxiety level among young people/students has significantly ramped up due directly to the shooting rampages. I guess you’re one of those “tough guys”! Don’t know the answers but clearly the status quo is not working.

I do have children. The things I worry about most are sexual predators, drugs/opioids, distracted driving, drowning (kids are in Lake Michigan 3 times/week), etc... not mass killings.
08-07-2019 09:21 AM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Think it might be time.
(08-07-2019 08:57 AM)Aimless1 Wrote:  
(08-07-2019 08:31 AM)Rasser Wrote:  
(08-07-2019 05:36 AM)Aimless1 Wrote:  Rasser, you spew a lot of words and say very little. An honest question looking for discussion and not argument. Apparently you don't have anything constructive to offer, which is fine.

I have a sense we all agree gun violence is a problem. So if "cutting to the solution is part of our problem" what are the issues we need to address? Intelligent rational people should be able to discuss whether or not we agree.

I’m not getting that sense at all. You can’t solve a problem without a problem definition.

So offer a definition of the problem. Otherwise the circle jerk continues with no progress.

Thought I was clear on the problem definition. Repeatedly.
08-07-2019 09:22 AM
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Broncos83 Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Think it might be time.
Question...I understand what YOU worry about. Have you asked your kids what THEY worry about? I have as have several others and I’m guessing you know the answer. These kids have valid concerns that are reinforced weekly, if not daily. They need to know that we have to take steps to attempt to address the situation. I’m pretty sure any form of action would prevent at least ONE mass shooting. If so, the reform actions are worth it.
08-07-2019 09:29 AM
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