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Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
(08-05-2019 08:07 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  It looks like a big chunk of prime real estate. Could be a good acquisition for some one like DePaul.

Chicago State is defended as a cultural property of black Chicago. Closing the school and handing it to a private, elite white college would be, to quote the BBC comedy "Yes Minister", "Very brave sir."
08-05-2019 08:28 AM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
(08-04-2019 02:46 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  If the WAC falls to 7, I'd expect GCU and NMSU to quietly start bribing other conferences to take them in.

Why? If you're a basketball school in a 1-bid league, don't you want as few teams in your conference as possible? In the current WAC NMSU can go to the NCAA tourney about 75% of the time, and GCU another 20% or so. Seems ideal to me, unless NMSU can go to a conference that fixes its football problem. The WAC should try to find another D2 school to call up for a buffer, but the time for desperation was 8 years ago.
08-05-2019 10:48 AM
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chess Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
(08-05-2019 08:28 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(08-05-2019 08:07 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  It looks like a big chunk of prime real estate. Could be a good acquisition for some one like DePaul.

Chicago State is defended as a cultural property of black Chicago. Closing the school and handing it to a private, elite white college would be, to quote the BBC comedy "Yes Minister", "Very brave sir."

DePaul? -An elite white college?

Your point is well taken.

UIC is growing. Chicago State is a dead school. Northeastern Illinois University may be Chicago State's lifesaver.

Who knows? Maybe Chicago State can create an agreement with Northern Illinois University. NIU is struggling with enrollment, has a good reputation, and a second campus may help.
08-05-2019 11:17 AM
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TDenverFan Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
(08-05-2019 07:30 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(08-04-2019 03:57 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(08-04-2019 03:24 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(08-04-2019 03:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(08-04-2019 02:46 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Or how about this possibility if Azusa Pacific and Tarleton State move up?

That puts a revived Big West FCS conference in reach. Azusa Pacific, Tarleton State and Dixie State are football-only members. Portland State joins as the 12th full member with Cal Poly and UC Davis, and viola - a new football auto bid in the west.

On paper isn't that much easier to pull off than say, praying for six D2 call-ups at once? No startups necessary, no Cal State or UC balance issues, fewer moving pieces, and Portland State saves on travel costs. The Big Sky keeps its California presence with Sac State, the WAC is replenished with new members, Dixie State has a football home, and the Big West regains a toehold in the Pacific Northwest as well as a toehold in Texas for football.

Everyone wins.

UC Davis loses. Their top-ten FCS football team would be marooned in a football conference in which half the teams just left Division II. They would just say no.

it puts everything under one roof and their FCS auto bid is much easier to obtain. But if that's a non-starter for UC Davis, then an FCS WAC is out of the question as well. Because that would also require multiple division 2 call ups.

You might persuade a few struggling FCS programs to join a new football-only conference with teams that were just in D-II. They might like having the opportunity to win a conference title.

Also, I think there is an NCAA committee that decides on FCS autobids, so it might not be a sure thing for a new conference, especially one padded with D-II move-ups, to get an autobid right away.

They may have to wait a couple of years, but that didn’t stop the Pioneer League from forming. Also, given how many playoff spots there are, there is a very good chance to get an at-large berth. Even Indy FCS teams have a good chance for an at-large spot.

Based on what?

A Pioneer team never got an at large.

An NEC team had never gotten an at large,they also only got an auto bid recently.

Last time an FCS school got an at large was 2004, when FAU did it.
08-05-2019 11:18 AM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
(08-05-2019 10:48 AM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(08-04-2019 02:46 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  If the WAC falls to 7, I'd expect GCU and NMSU to quietly start bribing other conferences to take them in.

Why? If you're a basketball school in a 1-bid league, don't you want as few teams in your conference as possible? In the current WAC NMSU can go to the NCAA tourney about 75% of the time, and GCU another 20% or so. Seems ideal to me, unless NMSU can go to a conference that fixes its football problem. The WAC should try to find another D2 school to call up for a buffer, but the time for desperation was 8 years ago.

The number of schools to have viable minor sports has increased as Title IX has decimated men's programs. There are 12 conferences with 12 or more teams, 6 with 11, 9 with 10 and only 5 with 8 or 9. The Ivy has 8, the WAC will have 8 and the Summit, America East and Atlantic Sun have 9. The WAC and Summit combined have 14 schools west of Illinois and have a few schools like Denver, Seattle and NMSU that could be vulnerable to poaching.

Edit-if IUPUFW to Horizon is correct as posted above, there will be 3 8 team conferences-Ivy, WAC and Summit, making some sort of merger more important. Both are on the verge of falling below the 8 team requirement.
3-8
2-9
8-10
7-11
12-12+
(This post was last modified: 08-05-2019 05:03 PM by bullet.)
08-05-2019 04:55 PM
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Post: #46
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
(08-05-2019 11:17 AM)chess Wrote:  
(08-05-2019 08:28 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(08-05-2019 08:07 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  It looks like a big chunk of prime real estate. Could be a good acquisition for some one like DePaul.

Chicago State is defended as a cultural property of black Chicago. Closing the school and handing it to a private, elite white college would be, to quote the BBC comedy "Yes Minister", "Very brave sir."

DePaul? -An elite white college?

Your point is well taken.

UIC is growing. Chicago State is a dead school. Northeastern Illinois University may be Chicago State's lifesaver.

Who knows? Maybe Chicago State can create an agreement with Northern Illinois University. NIU is struggling with enrollment, has a good reputation, and a second campus may help.

Chicago St. is in a death spiral. They will have to be closed or combined with NE Illinois or Governor's St.
08-05-2019 04:57 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #47
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
That campus would make a nice satellite campus for NIU, UIC, or someone like that
08-05-2019 05:00 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
(08-05-2019 04:55 PM)bullet Wrote:  Edit-if IUPUFW to Horizon is correct as posted above, there will be 3 8 team conferences-Ivy, WAC and Summit, making some sort of merger more important. Both are on the verge of falling below the 8 team requirement.
3-8
2-9
8-10
7-11
12-12+

I'm pretty sure the minimum is 7 all-sports members for non-FBS D-I conferences.
08-05-2019 05:08 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #49
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
Here’s a wild idea—the Summit and WAC rearrange the deck chairs each season to put their 8 best MBB schools in one conference and everyone else in the other. Double round robin in the upper league might lead to a higher seed for the champ.
08-05-2019 05:11 PM
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Fresno St. Alum Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
(08-05-2019 05:08 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(08-05-2019 04:55 PM)bullet Wrote:  Edit-if IUPUFW to Horizon is correct as posted above, there will be 3 8 team conferences-Ivy, WAC and Summit, making some sort of merger more important. Both are on the verge of falling below the 8 team requirement.
3-8
2-9
8-10
7-11
12-12+

I'm pretty sure the minimum is 7 all-sports members for non-FBS D-I conferences.

yes and the Summit has 9.
08-05-2019 05:17 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
(08-05-2019 05:08 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(08-05-2019 04:55 PM)bullet Wrote:  Edit-if IUPUFW to Horizon is correct as posted above, there will be 3 8 team conferences-Ivy, WAC and Summit, making some sort of merger more important. Both are on the verge of falling below the 8 team requirement.
3-8
2-9
8-10
7-11
12-12+

I'm pretty sure the minimum is 7 all-sports members for non-FBS D-I conferences.

That's right, the minimum is 7.

Division I Manual
Quote:20.02.5 Multisport Conference. A Division I multisport conference shall satisfy the requirements of this section.

20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men's and women's basketball
08-05-2019 05:23 PM
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Post: #52
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
(08-05-2019 05:17 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  
(08-05-2019 05:08 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(08-05-2019 04:55 PM)bullet Wrote:  Edit-if IUPUFW to Horizon is correct as posted above, there will be 3 8 team conferences-Ivy, WAC and Summit, making some sort of merger more important. Both are on the verge of falling below the 8 team requirement.
3-8
2-9
8-10
7-11
12-12+

I'm pretty sure the minimum is 7 all-sports members for non-FBS D-I conferences.

yes and the Summit has 9.

Correct, the Summit has 9 today not including UMKC which joins next year. So Purdue-FW's departure would keep the Summit at 9 instead of growing to 10.
08-05-2019 05:29 PM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
(08-05-2019 04:55 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-05-2019 10:48 AM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(08-04-2019 02:46 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  If the WAC falls to 7, I'd expect GCU and NMSU to quietly start bribing other conferences to take them in.

Why? If you're a basketball school in a 1-bid league, don't you want as few teams in your conference as possible? In the current WAC NMSU can go to the NCAA tourney about 75% of the time, and GCU another 20% or so. Seems ideal to me, unless NMSU can go to a conference that fixes its football problem. The WAC should try to find another D2 school to call up for a buffer, but the time for desperation was 8 years ago.

The number of schools to have viable minor sports has increased as Title IX has decimated men's programs. There are 12 conferences with 12 or more teams, 6 with 11, 9 with 10 and only 5 with 8 or 9. The Ivy has 8, the WAC will have 8 and the Summit, America East and Atlantic Sun have 9. The WAC and Summit combined have 14 schools west of Illinois and have a few schools like Denver, Seattle and NMSU that could be vulnerable to poaching.

Edit-if IUPUFW to Horizon is correct as posted above, there will be 3 8 team conferences-Ivy, WAC and Summit, making some sort of merger more important. Both are on the verge of falling below the 8 team requirement.
3-8
2-9
8-10
7-11
12-12+

I get that schools that aren't NMSU might be worried. But my comment was about NMSU and GCU, and if the WAC dies those schools can find other homes for their basketball. And otherwise they can enjoy their annual autobids in a much easier league than some consolidated conference would be.
08-05-2019 06:19 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
Looks like WAC will lose Chicago State (drop down), UMKC (Summit) and CSUB (Big West), while adding Dixie State (D-II move up).

The Summit losing a Baseball school means they either have to find an associate for the 2022-23 season (they get two years grace period) -- Northern Colorado would be a logical target, even pay them to join, or entice a current Summit school to add the sport by then.

If not the next options would be to ask for an extension on the waiver, or sponsor another men's sport, (cough) such as Football, which would be good for Dixie State,as the Summit would need a 6th member.

Ironically that would help the WAC, since an FCS move up would have a path to conference play. So a Tarleton State or Azusa Pacific could join a Summit Football when joining the WAC from D-II.
08-05-2019 06:44 PM
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Post: #55
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
'Cago State should have wrapped it up decades ago. They've never been a winner. What a waste of a great facility to boot.
08-05-2019 07:34 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
(08-05-2019 07:34 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  'Cago State should have wrapped it up decades ago. They've never been a winner. What a waste of a great facility to boot.

Well if it costs you $20,000 to open, heat and light it for a game, but you collect only $400 in gate, then it doesn't make much sense. Plus the maintenance that has to be done even when it sits idle (as it does all but 20 days a year), it's a money pit. That's why they should turn it over to the City Park and Rec Department and let them fund it's upkeep.
08-05-2019 07:38 PM
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Post: #57
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
(08-05-2019 05:08 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(08-05-2019 04:55 PM)bullet Wrote:  Edit-if IUPUFW to Horizon is correct as posted above, there will be 3 8 team conferences-Ivy, WAC and Summit, making some sort of merger more important. Both are on the verge of falling below the 8 team requirement.
3-8
2-9
8-10
7-11
12-12+

I'm pretty sure the minimum is 7 all-sports members for non-FBS D-I conferences.

7 for men's and women"s hoops. But you still need at least 6 members overall for volleyball, tennis, etc.
08-05-2019 07:40 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
(08-05-2019 07:40 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(08-05-2019 05:08 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(08-05-2019 04:55 PM)bullet Wrote:  Edit-if IUPUFW to Horizon is correct as posted above, there will be 3 8 team conferences-Ivy, WAC and Summit, making some sort of merger more important. Both are on the verge of falling below the 8 team requirement.
3-8
2-9
8-10
7-11
12-12+

I'm pretty sure the minimum is 7 all-sports members for non-FBS D-I conferences.

7 for men's and women"s hoops. But you still need at least 6 members overall for volleyball, tennis, etc.

You also have to have 2 additonal mens team sports if you dont sponsor football
08-05-2019 07:59 PM
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Post: #59
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
Summit will be 9 with UMKC joining. However, they need a 3rd Men's team sport of 6 schools by 2022-23 (they get a 2 year grace period on baseball, so OK for 2020-21 and 2021-22).

I think inducing a current member to add Baseball with say $100K extra distributions for a few years, or Northern Colorado to join as an Associate for that fee would be the easiest way to fix it. Otherwise they could ask for a 2 year waiver after the grace period runs out, kicking the can down the road until 2025.

The other way would be to start Summit Football in 2022, inviting an independent like Dixie State to be the 6th along side UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD and WIU. OOC would not be a problem as MVFC schools would need to find 3 more OOC opponents and the Big Sky is already short opponents.
08-05-2019 08:24 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Chicago St parts ways with Zorich, hires ex-BXII AD to assess D1
Hope that the rumblings out of Green Bay are true and they add scholarship football.
08-05-2019 08:31 PM
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