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No Compliance Dir, Academic Advisor or SID at Chicago St
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #41
RE: No Compliance Dir, Academic Advisor or SID at Chicago St
(08-26-2019 04:29 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-26-2019 02:49 PM)Pounder Wrote:  
(08-04-2019 06:15 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-04-2019 02:38 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  
(08-03-2019 08:36 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  It will be interesting what come of the audit...

I think the audit may occur before they hire an AD, cause then they will hire an AD based on the results of the audit.

They have the $38 million events center built in 2007 and their $2.5 million baseball stadium built in 2013. Those are recent investments in athletics that just say, "We are a D1 school."

Just because somebody overbuilt doesn't mean they can survive what they built. A 30,000 seat stadium and a post-closure renovation did not save or revive U of the Pacific football, for instance.

Of course, the audit matters. My observation is the facilities can't bail out anyone without fans or boosters to help.

When the Pacific football team was disbanded in 1995, the Stadium had been in existence for 45 years. Completely different from Chicago State. The basketball facility is only 12 years old and it is paid for. Chicago State is not dropping basketball. So comparing Pacific to Chicago State does not work.

The facilities are assets. It is better to have the facilities than to not have them. There are many schools that would love to have their events center as their on-campus basketball arena.

I'm sure there are and I'm sure they could pack more than 400 people in the 7,000 seat arena. They have the cavern because some state senator allocated funds from the Illinois Treasury to pay for the whole thing, oh and he put his name on it too.
08-26-2019 05:25 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: No Compliance Dir, Academic Advisor or SID at Chicago St
(08-26-2019 05:25 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  
(08-26-2019 04:29 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-26-2019 02:49 PM)Pounder Wrote:  
(08-04-2019 06:15 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-04-2019 02:38 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  I think the audit may occur before they hire an AD, cause then they will hire an AD based on the results of the audit.

They have the $38 million events center built in 2007 and their $2.5 million baseball stadium built in 2013. Those are recent investments in athletics that just say, "We are a D1 school."

Just because somebody overbuilt doesn't mean they can survive what they built. A 30,000 seat stadium and a post-closure renovation did not save or revive U of the Pacific football, for instance.

Of course, the audit matters. My observation is the facilities can't bail out anyone without fans or boosters to help.

When the Pacific football team was disbanded in 1995, the Stadium had been in existence for 45 years. Completely different from Chicago State. The basketball facility is only 12 years old and it is paid for. Chicago State is not dropping basketball. So comparing Pacific to Chicago State does not work.

The facilities are assets. It is better to have the facilities than to not have them. There are many schools that would love to have their events center as their on-campus basketball arena.

I'm sure there are and I'm sure they could pack more than 400 people in the 7,000 seat arena. They have the cavern because some state senator allocated funds from the Illinois Treasury to pay for the whole thing, oh and he put his name on it too.

Exactly. The state paid for it and the state senator that pushed it through got his name on the building. Tells you a lot about the state of Illinois. The point is, they have it, now how do they get the fans to show up? They have averaged over 1,000 per game in the past, as recently as the 2015-2016 season, when they averaged 1,091 fans. That season they drew 1,957 for UMKC, 1,902 for UTRGV, 1,783 for GCU, 1,733 for Valpo and 1,703 for WIU.

So the immediate goal should be to get attendance to 1,000 per game. There were 44 D1 schools last season that averaged under 1,000 per game. So they are not alone in that regard. Fixing their basketball program and improving enrollment is just part of the work-in-progress that the school is going through.
08-26-2019 06:27 PM
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gleadley Offline
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Post: #43
RE: No Compliance Dir, Academic Advisor or SID at Chicago St
(08-26-2019 06:27 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-26-2019 05:25 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  
(08-26-2019 04:29 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-26-2019 02:49 PM)Pounder Wrote:  
(08-04-2019 06:15 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  They have the $38 million events center built in 2007 and their $2.5 million baseball stadium built in 2013. Those are recent investments in athletics that just say, "We are a D1 school."

Just because somebody overbuilt doesn't mean they can survive what they built. A 30,000 seat stadium and a post-closure renovation did not save or revive U of the Pacific football, for instance.

Of course, the audit matters. My observation is the facilities can't bail out anyone without fans or boosters to help.

When the Pacific football team was disbanded in 1995, the Stadium had been in existence for 45 years. Completely different from Chicago State. The basketball facility is only 12 years old and it is paid for. Chicago State is not dropping basketball. So comparing Pacific to Chicago State does not work.

The facilities are assets. It is better to have the facilities than to not have them. There are many schools that would love to have their events center as their on-campus basketball arena.

I'm sure there are and I'm sure they could pack more than 400 people in the 7,000 seat arena. They have the cavern because some state senator allocated funds from the Illinois Treasury to pay for the whole thing, oh and he put his name on it too.

Exactly. The state paid for it and the state senator that pushed it through got his name on the building. Tells you a lot about the state of Illinois. The point is, they have it, now how do they get the fans to show up? They have averaged over 1,000 per game in the past, as recently as the 2015-2016 season, when they averaged 1,091 fans. That season they drew 1,957 for UMKC, 1,902 for UTRGV, 1,783 for GCU, 1,733 for Valpo and 1,703 for WIU.

So the immediate goal should be to get attendance to 1,000 per game. There were 44 D1 schools last season that averaged under 1,000 per game. So they are not alone in that regard. Fixing their basketball program and improving enrollment is just part of the work-in-progress that the school is going through.

"Attendance" numbers are funny. Chicago State has never played in front of 1700 people against GCU. The most might have been 500, with 400 of those being GCU students/alumni/fans and/or player families.
08-27-2019 10:41 AM
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4CornersGuy Offline
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Post: #44
RE: No Compliance Dir, Academic Advisor or SID at Chicago St
FYI According to the Chicago State 2016-2017 schedule there were 1526 in attendance at Jones Convocation Center 1/28/2017 vs GCU.
https://www.gocsucougars.com/schedule.as...ath=mbball

The 2015-2016 schedule shows there 1783 in attendance vs GCU.
(This post was last modified: 08-28-2019 11:17 PM by 4CornersGuy.)
08-28-2019 11:13 PM
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Country_Wisdom_359 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: No Compliance Dir, Academic Advisor or SID at Chicago St
(08-28-2019 11:13 PM)4CornersGuy Wrote:  FYI According to the Chicago State 2016-2017 schedule there were 1526 in attendance at Jones Convocation Center 1/28/2017 vs GCU.
https://www.gocsucougars.com/schedule.as...ath=mbball

The 2015-2016 schedule shows there 1783 in attendance vs GCU.

Canyon has a program called Lopes on the Road. Alumni and students are encouraged to sign up. They’ll get free pre-game snacks and a free T-shirt. It’s been done at UMKC and CSU as a way to get Midwest fans involved. I wonder if that may have some small bit of influence?
08-29-2019 10:31 AM
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gleadley Offline
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Post: #46
RE: No Compliance Dir, Academic Advisor or SID at Chicago St
(08-28-2019 11:13 PM)4CornersGuy Wrote:  FYI According to the Chicago State 2016-2017 schedule there were 1526 in attendance at Jones Convocation Center 1/28/2017 vs GCU.
https://www.gocsucougars.com/schedule.as...ath=mbball

The 2015-2016 schedule shows there 1783 in attendance vs GCU.

Reported attendance and the number of people "in attendance" are two VASTLY different things. Please feel free to click here and view footage from that 1/28/2017 game where the attendance was reported to be 1526, then tell me there were that many people "in attendance".

And here are highlights from the 2016 game, where the reported attendance was 1783. Look at the stands. It's all fake news, my friend. Again, it would be very generous to say that MAYBE 500 people were actually there, and not an exaggeration to suggest 400 were probably GCU fans.
(This post was last modified: 08-29-2019 11:06 AM by gleadley.)
08-29-2019 10:58 AM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: No Compliance Dir, Academic Advisor or SID at Chicago St
(08-29-2019 10:58 AM)gleadley Wrote:  
(08-28-2019 11:13 PM)4CornersGuy Wrote:  FYI According to the Chicago State 2016-2017 schedule there were 1526 in attendance at Jones Convocation Center 1/28/2017 vs GCU.
https://www.gocsucougars.com/schedule.as...ath=mbball

The 2015-2016 schedule shows there 1783 in attendance vs GCU.

Reported attendance and the number of people "in attendance" are two VASTLY different things. Please feel free to click here and view footage from that 1/28/2017 game where the attendance was reported to be 1526, then tell me there were that many people "in attendance".

And here are highlights from the 2016 game, where the reported attendance was 1783. Look at the stands. It's all fake news, my friend. Again, it would be very generous to say that MAYBE 500 people were actually there, and not an exaggeration to suggest 400 were probably GCU fans.

I think you have to go with the numbers that are provided. It does not look like a crowd of 1,783, but do we see the whole arena? Is that tickets sold vs actual attendance? Here was a game on December 6th, 2012 against DePaul, with an announced crowd of 2,691 fans:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QIIj8e0WyE

That does not look like 2,691 fans, but we don't see the whole arena. If they announce the crowd as 400, we should believe them. But if they say it is 1,783, they are inflating the numbers? Since we are not at the arena, we just have to go with the numbers they provide.
08-29-2019 01:37 PM
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gleadley Offline
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Post: #48
RE: No Compliance Dir, Academic Advisor or SID at Chicago St
It's up to you whether you accept that it is raining while Chicago State pees on your leg simply because they say it's raining, but I'm not so inclined.
08-29-2019 01:47 PM
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Hilldog Offline
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Post: #49
RE: No Compliance Dir, Academic Advisor or SID at Chicago St
I always wondered when the announce the crowd at 1,783, and they say that includes tickets sold- are we to believe that for each game CSU sold 1,000 tickets and they all no showed? I know donors at a certain level get tickets, but CSU has 500 donors at say, $5K a year? I know they don't have a big season ticket base.
08-29-2019 02:32 PM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #50
RE: No Compliance Dir, Academic Advisor or SID at Chicago St
Sometimes there are student giveaways before the game etc that may prompt people to pick up free tickets just to get something free, and then they don't stay for the game. But that would be more of one off thing and not affect a whole season.
08-29-2019 11:37 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #51
RE: No Compliance Dir, Academic Advisor or SID at Chicago St
(08-29-2019 10:58 AM)gleadley Wrote:  
(08-28-2019 11:13 PM)4CornersGuy Wrote:  FYI According to the Chicago State 2016-2017 schedule there were 1526 in attendance at Jones Convocation Center 1/28/2017 vs GCU.
https://www.gocsucougars.com/schedule.as...ath=mbball

The 2015-2016 schedule shows there 1783 in attendance vs GCU.

Reported attendance and the number of people "in attendance" are two VASTLY different things. Please feel free to click here and view footage from that 1/28/2017 game where the attendance was reported to be 1526, then tell me there were that many people "in attendance".

And here are highlights from the 2016 game, where the reported attendance was 1783. Look at the stands. It's all fake news, my friend. Again, it would be very generous to say that MAYBE 500 people were actually there, and not an exaggeration to suggest 400 were probably GCU fans.

UNM counts players and staff of both teams, concessions, everyone in the building is how they count attendance, plus tickets sold. The do it for basketball and football.
08-30-2019 12:51 PM
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Pounder Offline
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Post: #52
RE: No Compliance Dir, Academic Advisor or SID at Chicago St
Conduct the t-shirt giveaway at the end of the game while not letting people waiting outside to go in. At least that's a smarter way to do it. Yes, I've seen that keep students around for a women's game.

If you're quibbling over "one game might have got 1,700 amongst a population of 400s and 500s" and your regional rival in the conference is 550 miles away, it's not a good look. When the program probably doesn't even have the funds for a proper background check of prospective employees, while you're paying to fly teams to the more distant coast and there's an expensive winter destination or 3 in amongst the itinerary, it's not a sustainable situation.

As far as I'm concerned, Chicago State needs a miracle.
(This post was last modified: 08-31-2019 02:33 PM by Pounder.)
08-31-2019 02:31 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: No Compliance Dir, Academic Advisor or SID at Chicago St
(08-31-2019 02:31 PM)Pounder Wrote:  Conduct the t-shirt giveaway at the end of the game while not letting people waiting outside to go in. At least that's a smarter way to do it. Yes, I've seen that keep students around for a women's game.

If you're quibbling over "one game might have got 1,700 amongst a population of 400s and 500s" and your regional rival in the conference is 550 miles away, it's not a good look. When the program probably doesn't even have the funds for a proper background check of prospective employees, while you're paying to fly teams to the more distant coast and there's an expensive winter destination or 3 in amongst the itinerary, it's not a sustainable situation.

As far as I'm concerned, Chicago State needs a miracle.

I know the focus is on Chicago State, but there are a lot of schools in Illinois that are struggling. For example, Western Illinois. WIU in basketball averaged 466 fans last season. In 2018, they averaged 602 per game. In 2017, they averaged 777 fans per game.

Their on-campus enrollment has dropped in the last ten years from 10,785 students to 5,600 students. Their university President recently resigned or was encouraged to resign. They have laid-off over four hundred employees in the last four years. They have cut classes and programs.

They are not going to close, but the point is, these schools are going through some rough times, a lot of it of their own making. I think they all survive, but it could get tough on the conferences. If WIU or EIU dropped men's soccer, now the Summit is short men's soccer schools. It is not just Chicago State and the WAC that have potential issues.
08-31-2019 11:16 PM
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Pounder Offline
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Post: #54
RE: No Compliance Dir, Academic Advisor or SID at Chicago St
(08-31-2019 11:16 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(08-31-2019 02:31 PM)Pounder Wrote:  Conduct the t-shirt giveaway at the end of the game while not letting people waiting outside to go in. At least that's a smarter way to do it. Yes, I've seen that keep students around for a women's game.

If you're quibbling over "one game might have got 1,700 amongst a population of 400s and 500s" and your regional rival in the conference is 550 miles away, it's not a good look. When the program probably doesn't even have the funds for a proper background check of prospective employees, while you're paying to fly teams to the more distant coast and there's an expensive winter destination or 3 in amongst the itinerary, it's not a sustainable situation.

As far as I'm concerned, Chicago State needs a miracle.

I know the focus is on Chicago State, but there are a lot of schools in Illinois that are struggling. For example, Western Illinois. WIU in basketball averaged 466 fans last season. In 2018, they averaged 602 per game. In 2017, they averaged 777 fans per game.

Their on-campus enrollment has dropped in the last ten years from 10,785 students to 5,600 students. Their university President recently resigned or was encouraged to resign. They have laid-off over four hundred employees in the last four years. They have cut classes and programs.

They are not going to close, but the point is, these schools are going through some rough times, a lot of it of their own making. I think they all survive, but it could get tough on the conferences. If WIU or EIU dropped men's soccer, now the Summit is short men's soccer schools. It is not just Chicago State and the WAC that have potential issues.

Not like I'm not watching Portland State end up in a high school stadium for football (eh, glorified... I hear Montana fans saying they prefer it to Southern Utah and Northern Colorado's stadia) and rather emphatically watch their attendance start dipping well below the 5,000 mark. Mind you, the school is doing well, the city is doing gangbusters. I'm just watching as students (my daughter among them) pretty much treat athletics like a four-letter word.

Anyone who's not P5... they're getting squeezed by the dual issues of the hype of nationalization of sports media and reduced revenue as big schools start finding legal ways to pay players. I don't know how this sifts out at the back end.
09-03-2019 06:29 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: No Compliance Dir, Academic Advisor or SID at Chicago St
Z Scott hired a new AD ... sort of. He is 68 years old and signed a 2 month contract with an option for a 3rd month. It's Eric Hyman formerly of Texas A&M (amongst other places). It looks like he is being brought in to troubleshoot the department and see if it is viable. I have never heard of a 2 month contract for an AD. This seems like it's related to the upcoming Audit of whether to stay in D1 or change athletics. (Z Scott has an impressive ability to connect with very professional people, a drastic change from the recent past at Chicago State.) This definitely looks like something will happen or be decided before Thanksgiving.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/co...story.html

[Image: 920x920.jpg]
09-06-2019 11:52 AM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #56
RE: No Compliance Dir, Academic Advisor or SID at Chicago St
(09-06-2019 11:52 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Z Scott hired a new AD ... sort of. He is 68 years old and signed a 2 month contract with an option for a 3rd month. It's Eric Hyman formerly of Texas A&M (amongst other places). It looks like he is being brought in to troubleshoot the department and see if it is viable. I have never heard of a 2 month contract for an AD. This seems like it's related to the upcoming Audit of whether to stay in D1 or change athletics. (Z Scott has an impressive ability to connect with very professional people, a drastic change from the recent past at Chicago State.) This definitely looks like something will happen or be decided before Thanksgiving.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/co...story.html

[Image: 920x920.jpg]

That's one way to save money. Next they'll be doing the same with coaches.
09-06-2019 03:32 PM
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