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What happened during the Div 1-A / 1-AA (FBS/FCS) split in 1978?
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #81
RE: What happened during the Div 1-A / 1-AA (FBS/FCS) split in 1978?
(07-31-2019 03:53 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The schools forced into I-AA got screwed 10 ways to Sunday as the NCAA didn't deliver on the promises and failed the primary missing on keeping the power school using the NCAA to negotiate the TV deal.

In fairness to the NCAA, they never promised the schools/conferences forced down that if the CFA decided to litigate the TV issue anyway, that the NCAA would win. Nobody knows what will happen when something goes to court. Nor could the NCAA force the CFA to drop the TV lawsuit once the new IA requirements were implemented.

Not being stupid, the smaller IA schools being forced down to IAA knew all this before the 1981 vote, but they also felt the pressure of the CFA TV lawsuit, so those that voted for the change (and not all did, the Ivy strongly opposed it) were gambling that doing so would mollify the CFA and cause them to drop the TV lawsuit.

But, what is often left out of this discussion is that TV money wasn't the only animating force during 1981-1982. A big issue was control, namely the perception that for years, the smaller schools had been blocking the bigger schools procedurally on NCAA issues. Both Bear Bryant and Joe Paterno complained about that at the time. This of course is a very similar issue to what animated the push for "autonomy" thirty years later, in 2012 as the CFP was being formed - the Big schools not wanting to be constrained in NCAA councils by the votes of smaller schools.

When you look at the dueling 1981 ABC/CBS/NCAA TV deals and the NBC/CFA deal, the money that the Oklahomas and Penn States would be getting wasn't all that much different. The CFA signing with NBC and the OU/Georgia/Texas lawsuits was initially largely a leverage move to pressure the small schools that routinely voted against big school proposals to accept a reorganization that would reduce the number of small schools in IA, and hence the voting power of the smaller IA schools. Basically, for several years the big schools were complaining about getting blocked, but those complaints were ignored in NCAA councils until the CFA negotiated the NBC deal and a few big schools filed the lawsuits. It worked - once the NBC deal was signed and the lawsuits to protect it were filed in the summer of 1981, the small schools woke up to the threat and agreed to the "emergency" late 1981 meeting that resulted in the new IA rules that booted out the Ivy League and others.

The importance of control back then is illustrated by the split among the Big schools that existed at the time - the Big 10 and Pac 10 were not only not members of the CFA, between 1978-1980 they also had initially supported the smaller IA schools in NCAA councils. But, at the emergency 1981 NCAA meeting, the Big 10 and PAC 10 changed their posture and joined the other big schools in voting for the rules that sent the Ivy and others down to IAA, even though they continued to abstain from the CFA and the TV rights battle. So the Big 10 and Pac 10 were able to see a common interest with the other major conferences on the issue of control, even as they did not on the TV issue. The Big 10 and Pac 10 would essentially remain separate for 17 more years, until joining the BCS in 1998.

In the end, despite the reorganization that forced 40 or so schools down to IAA, the CFA proceeded with the TV lawsuit, and we know what happened with that aspect of it. So the big schools got their procedural cake (fewer smaller schools in IA to block big school moves) and were able to eat it too (TV contract freedom).
(This post was last modified: 08-13-2019 09:37 AM by quo vadis.)
08-13-2019 09:12 AM
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Post: #82
RE: What happened during the Div 1-A / 1-AA (FBS/FCS) split in 1978?
(08-13-2019 09:12 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-31-2019 03:53 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The schools forced into I-AA got screwed 10 ways to Sunday as the NCAA didn't deliver on the promises and failed the primary missing on keeping the power school using the NCAA to negotiate the TV deal.

In fairness to the NCAA, they never promised the schools/conferences forced down that if the CFA decided to litigate the TV issue anyway, that the NCAA would win. Nobody knows what will happen when something goes to court. Nor could the NCAA force the CFA to drop the TV lawsuit once the new IA requirements were implemented.

Not being stupid, the smaller schools being forced down to IAA knew all this before the 1981 vote, but they also felt the pressure of the CFA TV lawsuit, so those that voted for the change (and not all did, the Ivy strongly opposed it) were gambling that doing so would mollify the CFA and cause them to drop the TV lawsuit.

But, what is often left out of this discussion is that TV money wasn't the only animating force during 1981-1982. A big issue was control, namely the perception that for years, the smaller schools had been blocking the bigger schools procedurally on NCAA issues. Both Bear Bryant and Joe Paterno complained about that at the time. This of course is a very similar issue to what animated the push for "autonomy" thirty years later, in 2012 as the CFP was being formed - the Big schools not wanting to be constrained in NCAA councils by the votes of smaller schools.

When you look at the dueling 1981 ABC/CBS/NCAA TV deals and the NBC/CFA deal, the money that the Oklahomas and Penn States would be getting wasn't all that much different. The CFA signing with NBC and the OU/Georgia/Texas lawsuits was initially largely a leverage move to pressure the small schools that routinely voted against big school proposals to accept a reorganization that would reduce the number of small schools in IA, and hence the voting power of the smaller IA schools. Basically, for several years the big schools were complaining about getting blocked, but those complaints were ignored in NCAA councils until the CFA negotiated the NBC deal and a few big schools filed the lawsuits. It worked - once the NBC deal was signed and the lawsuits to protect it were filed in the summer of 1981, the small schools woke up to the threat and agreed to the "emergency" late 1981 meeting that resulted in the new IA rules that booted out the Ivy League and others.

In the end, despite the reorganization that forced 40 or so schools down to IAA, the CFA proceeded with the TV lawsuit, and we know what happened with that aspect of it. So the big schools got their procedural cake (fewer smaller schools in IA to block big school moves) and were able to eat it too (TV contract freedom).

Control was an interesting progression.

First we got the federated system early 70's and issues were voted on a divisional basis for the first time.

Then we got the Management Council system where what became the power 5 had more votes, the rest of FBS full votes, and everyone else might not have a rep on the Management Council and be represented by another conference in their class.

Finally autonomy after FCS and non-football repealed the stipend. Basically took four decades to get that fine-tuned.
08-13-2019 09:35 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #83
RE: What happened during the Div 1-A / 1-AA (FBS/FCS) split in 1978?
(08-13-2019 09:12 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-31-2019 03:53 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The schools forced into I-AA got screwed 10 ways to Sunday as the NCAA didn't deliver on the promises and failed the primary missing on keeping the power school using the NCAA to negotiate the TV deal.

In fairness to the NCAA, they never promised the schools/conferences forced down that if the CFA decided to litigate the TV issue anyway, that the NCAA would win. Nobody knows what will happen when something goes to court. Nor could the NCAA force the CFA to drop the TV lawsuit once the new IA requirements were implemented.

Not being stupid, the smaller IA schools being forced down to IAA knew all this before the 1981 vote, but they also felt the pressure of the CFA TV lawsuit, so those that voted for the change (and not all did, the Ivy strongly opposed it) were gambling that doing so would mollify the CFA and cause them to drop the TV lawsuit.

But, what is often left out of this discussion is that TV money wasn't the only animating force during 1981-1982. A big issue was control, namely the perception that for years, the smaller schools had been blocking the bigger schools procedurally on NCAA issues. Both Bear Bryant and Joe Paterno complained about that at the time. This of course is a very similar issue to what animated the push for "autonomy" thirty years later, in 2012 as the CFP was being formed - the Big schools not wanting to be constrained in NCAA councils by the votes of smaller schools.

When you look at the dueling 1981 ABC/CBS/NCAA TV deals and the NBC/CFA deal, the money that the Oklahomas and Penn States would be getting wasn't all that much different. The CFA signing with NBC and the OU/Georgia/Texas lawsuits was initially largely a leverage move to pressure the small schools that routinely voted against big school proposals to accept a reorganization that would reduce the number of small schools in IA, and hence the voting power of the smaller IA schools. Basically, for several years the big schools were complaining about getting blocked, but those complaints were ignored in NCAA councils until the CFA negotiated the NBC deal and a few big schools filed the lawsuits. It worked - once the NBC deal was signed and the lawsuits to protect it were filed in the summer of 1981, the small schools woke up to the threat and agreed to the "emergency" late 1981 meeting that resulted in the new IA rules that booted out the Ivy League and others.

The importance of control back then is illustrated by the split among the Big schools that existed at the time - the Big 10 and Pac 10 were not only not members of the CFA, between 1978-1980 they also had initially supported the smaller IA schools in NCAA councils. But, at the emergency 1981 NCAA meeting, the Big 10 and PAC 10 changed their posture and joined the other big schools in voting for the rules that sent the Ivy and others down to IAA, even though they continued to abstain from the CFA and the TV rights battle. So the Big 10 and Pac 10 were able to see a common interest with the other major conferences on the issue of control, even as they did not on the TV issue. The Big 10 and Pac 10 would essentially remain separate for 17 more years, until joining the BCS in 1998.

In the end, despite the reorganization that forced 40 or so schools down to IAA, the CFA proceeded with the TV lawsuit, and we know what happened with that aspect of it. So the big schools got their procedural cake (fewer smaller schools in IA to block big school moves) and were able to eat it too (TV contract freedom).

Is it fair to say that when the Pac and Big 10 flipped, the bigger schools voted most of the smaller schools out of 1A, with some, Big West and MAC, managing to survive
08-13-2019 09:52 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #84
RE: What happened during the Div 1-A / 1-AA (FBS/FCS) split in 1978?
(08-08-2019 07:26 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(08-08-2019 10:31 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(08-03-2019 10:37 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(07-31-2019 03:53 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  I always refer to it as 1981 because the vote was in late 1981 but it in no way, shape, nor form was related to 1978's creation of I-A/I-AA.

1981 was NCAA crassness at its prime. The powers in Shawnee Mission wanted OU and UGA to drop the anti-trust lawsuit, they wanted the CFA to quit trying to do its own TV.

The solution they came up with was change the "or" in the I-A criteria between sport sponsorship and attendance criteria to an "and" to eliminate a bunch of schools.

The NCAA tried to sugar coat making the following promises. There would be more post-season opportunities, there would be a minimum amount of TV coverage, and there would be no changes that would interfere with schools continuing to play each other if they ended up on different sides of the split.

Horse manure all around.
In short order post-season was deregulated in I-A and every FBS league ended up having more post-season opportunities than any FCS.
The TV deal couldn't be delivered because the NCAA lost the lawsuits and the TV contract.
Before the decade ended the 6-5 bowl eligibility rule was adopted and initially no wins over I-AA would count then it was only one win every four years.

That final change broke the camels back and spurred a dash of schools rushing to I-A. In short order, Akron, LaTech, AState and Nevada were all in or back in I-A and it didn't help when schools regularly playing them said they would no longer play because the bowl eligibility rules.

The schools forced into I-AA got screwed 10 ways to Sunday as the NCAA didn't deliver on the promises and failed the primary missing on keeping the power school using the NCAA to negotiate the TV deal.

App State was at the center of the suit Georgia & Oklahoma brought against the NCAA. The NCAA contract called for certain number of exposures for all conferences,
The same weekend nationally ranked Georgia & South Carolina were playing ABC showed App vs The Citadel. I still have a copy of that game.

Odds are one of UGA and South Carolina had already hit their maximum for TV appearances.

That was a point of contention the NCAA had no intention of fixing at the time.

That was probably the case, but it was late October and CBS still owed the SoCon an exposure. Perfect Storm.

The App State/Citadel game in 1981 was in late September, 9/26.

Also, while Georgia vs South Carolina was surely a game of interest, as the game featured Herschel Walker vs the guy who would win the 1981 Heisman, George Rogers, it was not a matchup of top teams. Both had lost by then, Georgia was #17 and SC was unranked.

The big game that day was #1 USC vs #2 Oklahoma.

That said, App State did figure in to the court case. When the District Judge ruled against the NCAA in late 1982, a decision that the supreme court would uphold two years later, his ruling noted that on 9/26/81, ABC had aired USC vs Oklahoma to over 200 markets and App State vs the Citadel to only 4, and yet because of the NCAA contract, all four schools were paid the same amount of TV money. He cited that as an example of classic restraint of trade.
(This post was last modified: 08-13-2019 09:57 AM by quo vadis.)
08-13-2019 09:53 AM
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