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UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #41
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
(07-30-2019 07:58 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 03:47 PM)converrl Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 01:32 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 01:18 PM)converrl Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 12:16 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  Let your imagination run wild on what other school's recruiters must have been telling 17 year old prospects about where UCONN football was headed. With UCONN's decision, football's prospects just got considerably worse, not better.

I'm convinced UCONN covertly conducted extensive due diligence to determine it had no realistic pathway to the P5. They cut their losses and have pretty much decided to just be an east coast basketball school--football will exit stage left in the next couple years I believe. Unfortunately, I think its best days are in the rearview mirror in basketball too.

I don't think so...MBB/WBB are now the revenue sports for their AD. They get to cut a considerable number of scholarships on the women's side and reset their finances. Any coach/recruit now knows that BB is KING at UConn...no diverging of the AD budget to FB. All recruiting all the time. And a solid BB conference to boot.

You mean, getting in the same conference a Villanova.

I think the AAC is on it's way up in BB.

I also think the BE is trending downward. If Villanova's not any good, what else is left?

Creighton and Butler and spiraling and not coming back. Zavier looked a step below where they were with Putin in charge.

Georgetown is a big name, but that's all. Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall and St John's are all never-was has-beens.

UConn is going the way of Army football. They had a nice run. They're quickly becoming a nobody.

I disagree with your assessment of BE MBB. Solid programs include XU, GTown, Butler, Creighton, Nova...all fairly solid with recent success. The conference will become more attractive to top recruits because they will play top-notch competition and the programs won't have to split their budgets with FB.

I find it interesting that several schools with minimal or no FB have made it to the championship over the past decade--especially when you consider that they make up a minority of DI programs. I think it speaks to a trend--if you put the bulk of your resources in one revenue sport, that sport will have a greater chance of success.

There's the sticking point with me.

Yes, they've all had recent success. But where are they headed?

Brad Stevens doesn't coach Butler anymore. If Miller gets IU turned around... bye bye Butler.

Creighton hasn't been much since the coach's kid left.

Villanova has been legit, but they seem to go up and down. If Wright leaves, forget them.

Zavier hopefully has ended their run of lucky coaching hires.

I personally would rather hang around with Houston, Memphis and Wichita St than those guys.

If Temple, SMU and UCF get their acts together, I just don't see how the BE is better than the AAC.

Disagree if you want. I think I'm right.

I think last year's Big East is more in line with where the Big East will be going forward, however, Villanova under Jay Wright is likely to still be a force.

The new Big East was a perfect storm of things going right for a few years. They have a power in Villanova to really boost the league. Whatever you think of Xavier, Mack was great there and they were the best they've ever been in 2 of his last 3 years. They had a plethora of 50-100 kenpom type teams so that every game could be a quality win. While the committee was still focused on the RPI they understood how to game the RPI rankings. Their conference consistently had teams with RPI's far above their predictive metrics.

The Big East is a really solid basketball league. I see it as a 3-7 type conference every single season. There's no reason the AAC can't get to that level as well. The biggest issues for the AAC are having a program or 2 step up to being a top 10-15 type program AND getting their bottom teams into the top 100 type range. They've made progress on both fronts in recent years, but need to avoid those Tulane/ECU type seasons.
 
(This post was last modified: 07-30-2019 08:17 AM by bearcatmark.)
07-30-2019 08:16 AM
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BeatNavy Offline
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Post: #42
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
(07-29-2019 03:28 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  Those Army teams cheated and were given the first "death penalty" even though it wasn't called that back then.

In what world did that happen?
 
07-30-2019 11:03 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #43
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
(07-30-2019 07:58 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 03:47 PM)converrl Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 01:32 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 01:18 PM)converrl Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 12:16 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  Let your imagination run wild on what other school's recruiters must have been telling 17 year old prospects about where UCONN football was headed. With UCONN's decision, football's prospects just got considerably worse, not better.

I'm convinced UCONN covertly conducted extensive due diligence to determine it had no realistic pathway to the P5. They cut their losses and have pretty much decided to just be an east coast basketball school--football will exit stage left in the next couple years I believe. Unfortunately, I think its best days are in the rearview mirror in basketball too.

I don't think so...MBB/WBB are now the revenue sports for their AD. They get to cut a considerable number of scholarships on the women's side and reset their finances. Any coach/recruit now knows that BB is KING at UConn...no diverging of the AD budget to FB. All recruiting all the time. And a solid BB conference to boot.

You mean, getting in the same conference a Villanova.

I think the AAC is on it's way up in BB.

I also think the BE is trending downward. If Villanova's not any good, what else is left?

Creighton and Butler and spiraling and not coming back. Zavier looked a step below where they were with Putin in charge.

Georgetown is a big name, but that's all. Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall and St John's are all never-was has-beens.

UConn is going the way of Army football. They had a nice run. They're quickly becoming a nobody.

I disagree with your assessment of BE MBB. Solid programs include XU, GTown, Butler, Creighton, Nova...all fairly solid with recent success. The conference will become more attractive to top recruits because they will play top-notch competition and the programs won't have to split their budgets with FB.

I find it interesting that several schools with minimal or no FB have made it to the championship over the past decade--especially when you consider that they make up a minority of DI programs. I think it speaks to a trend--if you put the bulk of your resources in one revenue sport, that sport will have a greater chance of success.

There's the sticking point with me.

Yes, they've all had recent success. But where are they headed?

Brad Stevens doesn't coach Butler anymore. If Miller gets IU turned around... bye bye Butler.

Creighton hasn't been much since the coach's kid left.

Villanova has been legit, but they seem to go up and down. If Wright leaves, forget them.

Zavier hopefully has ended their run of lucky coaching hires.

I personally would rather hang around with Houston, Memphis and Wichita St than those guys.

If Temple, SMU and UCF get their acts together, I just don't see how the BE is better than the AAC.

Disagree if you want. I think I'm right.

A good test of a program's staying power is its attendance.

For example, UC stunk for Cronin's first 4 years, but annual attendance always stayed above 7,800 per game.

Average attendance in 2019
Big East: 9,999 (4th)
American: 6,739 (7th)

This disparity will get bigger after UConn leaves.
 
07-30-2019 11:09 AM
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bearcatmill Offline
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Post: #44
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
(07-30-2019 11:09 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(07-30-2019 07:58 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 03:47 PM)converrl Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 01:32 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 01:18 PM)converrl Wrote:  I don't think so...MBB/WBB are now the revenue sports for their AD. They get to cut a considerable number of scholarships on the women's side and reset their finances. Any coach/recruit now knows that BB is KING at UConn...no diverging of the AD budget to FB. All recruiting all the time. And a solid BB conference to boot.

You mean, getting in the same conference a Villanova.

I think the AAC is on it's way up in BB.

I also think the BE is trending downward. If Villanova's not any good, what else is left?

Creighton and Butler and spiraling and not coming back. Zavier looked a step below where they were with Putin in charge.

Georgetown is a big name, but that's all. Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall and St John's are all never-was has-beens.

UConn is going the way of Army football. They had a nice run. They're quickly becoming a nobody.

I disagree with your assessment of BE MBB. Solid programs include XU, GTown, Butler, Creighton, Nova...all fairly solid with recent success. The conference will become more attractive to top recruits because they will play top-notch competition and the programs won't have to split their budgets with FB.

I find it interesting that several schools with minimal or no FB have made it to the championship over the past decade--especially when you consider that they make up a minority of DI programs. I think it speaks to a trend--if you put the bulk of your resources in one revenue sport, that sport will have a greater chance of success.

There's the sticking point with me.

Yes, they've all had recent success. But where are they headed?

Brad Stevens doesn't coach Butler anymore. If Miller gets IU turned around... bye bye Butler.

Creighton hasn't been much since the coach's kid left.

Villanova has been legit, but they seem to go up and down. If Wright leaves, forget them.

Zavier hopefully has ended their run of lucky coaching hires.

I personally would rather hang around with Houston, Memphis and Wichita St than those guys.

If Temple, SMU and UCF get their acts together, I just don't see how the BE is better than the AAC.

Disagree if you want. I think I'm right.

A good test of a program's staying power is its attendance.

For example, UC stunk for Cronin's first 4 years, but annual attendance always stayed above 7,800 per game.

Average attendance in 2019
Big East: 9,999 (4th)
American: 6,739 (7th)

This disparity will get bigger after UConn leaves.

Isn't one of the reasons UConn is leaving due to their decreased attendance/support? This would imply they were not drawing what they once did.
 
07-30-2019 12:11 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #45
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
UConn used to get over 10K a game for many years but starting in 2017 it dropped to 8500, then to 7,829 and back up to 8,652 last season (Hurley's first season).

UConn is hoping that regional battles against St. John's, Georgetown, Providence and Seton Hall draws more money than any combo in the AAC and that the casual fans in the northeast value DePaul, Marquette, Creighton and Butler over any combo in the AAC as well.
 
07-30-2019 12:25 PM
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cinbinsportsfan Offline
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Post: #46
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
(07-30-2019 11:09 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  A good test of a program's staying power is its attendance.

For example, UC stunk for Cronin's first 4 years, but annual attendance always stayed above 7,800 per game.

Average attendance in 2019
Big East: 9,999 (4th)
American: 6,739 (7th)

This disparity will get bigger after UConn leaves.

Part of that is the due to the fact that the likes of Georgetown, St. Johns, and Seton Hall all play in professional arenas. AAC arenas (Hi, Tulane!) are just smaller because they tend to be on-campus.

In terms of % capacity, the AAC filled 70.3% of their available seats and the Big East filled 69.8%.
 
07-30-2019 12:25 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #47
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
(07-30-2019 12:11 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  
(07-30-2019 11:09 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(07-30-2019 07:58 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 03:47 PM)converrl Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 01:32 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  You mean, getting in the same conference a Villanova.

I think the AAC is on it's way up in BB.

I also think the BE is trending downward. If Villanova's not any good, what else is left?

Creighton and Butler and spiraling and not coming back. Zavier looked a step below where they were with Putin in charge.

Georgetown is a big name, but that's all. Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall and St John's are all never-was has-beens.

UConn is going the way of Army football. They had a nice run. They're quickly becoming a nobody.

I disagree with your assessment of BE MBB. Solid programs include XU, GTown, Butler, Creighton, Nova...all fairly solid with recent success. The conference will become more attractive to top recruits because they will play top-notch competition and the programs won't have to split their budgets with FB.

I find it interesting that several schools with minimal or no FB have made it to the championship over the past decade--especially when you consider that they make up a minority of DI programs. I think it speaks to a trend--if you put the bulk of your resources in one revenue sport, that sport will have a greater chance of success.

There's the sticking point with me.

Yes, they've all had recent success. But where are they headed?

Brad Stevens doesn't coach Butler anymore. If Miller gets IU turned around... bye bye Butler.

Creighton hasn't been much since the coach's kid left.

Villanova has been legit, but they seem to go up and down. If Wright leaves, forget them.

Zavier hopefully has ended their run of lucky coaching hires.

I personally would rather hang around with Houston, Memphis and Wichita St than those guys.

If Temple, SMU and UCF get their acts together, I just don't see how the BE is better than the AAC.

Disagree if you want. I think I'm right.

A good test of a program's staying power is its attendance.

For example, UC stunk for Cronin's first 4 years, but annual attendance always stayed above 7,800 per game.

Average attendance in 2019
Big East: 9,999 (4th)
American: 6,739 (7th)

This disparity will get bigger after UConn leaves.

Isn't one of the reasons UConn is leaving due to their decreased attendance/support? This would imply they were not drawing what they once did.

UConn Attendance in the last decade:
2019: 8,652
2018: 7,829
2017: 8,508
2016: 10,413
2015: 10,687
2014: 10,134
2013: 10,728
2012: 12,640
2011: 11,569
2010: 11,685

Attendance had nothing to do with the conference, as they were still in 5-figures for two seasons in the AAC as it stands today...it had everything to do with their team being absolute garbage.
 
(This post was last modified: 07-30-2019 12:29 PM by BearcatMan.)
07-30-2019 12:27 PM
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AABearcat Offline
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Post: #48
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
(07-30-2019 11:03 AM)BeatNavy Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 03:28 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  Those Army teams cheated and were given the first "death penalty" even though it wasn't called that back then.

In what world did that happen?

I'm with you. Please see my response on page 2 at the end. Poster obviously doesn't know much about the history of Army football.
 
07-30-2019 02:46 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #49
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
(07-30-2019 12:27 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(07-30-2019 12:11 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  
(07-30-2019 11:09 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(07-30-2019 07:58 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 03:47 PM)converrl Wrote:  I disagree with your assessment of BE MBB. Solid programs include XU, GTown, Butler, Creighton, Nova...all fairly solid with recent success. The conference will become more attractive to top recruits because they will play top-notch competition and the programs won't have to split their budgets with FB.

I find it interesting that several schools with minimal or no FB have made it to the championship over the past decade--especially when you consider that they make up a minority of DI programs. I think it speaks to a trend--if you put the bulk of your resources in one revenue sport, that sport will have a greater chance of success.

There's the sticking point with me.

Yes, they've all had recent success. But where are they headed?

Brad Stevens doesn't coach Butler anymore. If Miller gets IU turned around... bye bye Butler.

Creighton hasn't been much since the coach's kid left.

Villanova has been legit, but they seem to go up and down. If Wright leaves, forget them.

Zavier hopefully has ended their run of lucky coaching hires.

I personally would rather hang around with Houston, Memphis and Wichita St than those guys.

If Temple, SMU and UCF get their acts together, I just don't see how the BE is better than the AAC.

Disagree if you want. I think I'm right.

A good test of a program's staying power is its attendance.

For example, UC stunk for Cronin's first 4 years, but annual attendance always stayed above 7,800 per game.

Average attendance in 2019
Big East: 9,999 (4th)
American: 6,739 (7th)

This disparity will get bigger after UConn leaves.

Isn't one of the reasons UConn is leaving due to their decreased attendance/support? This would imply they were not drawing what they once did.

UConn Attendance in the last decade:
2019: 8,652
2018: 7,829
2017: 8,508
2016: 10,413
2015: 10,687
2014: 10,134
2013: 10,728
2012: 12,640
2011: 11,569
2010: 11,685

Attendance had nothing to do with the conference, as they were still in 5-figures for two seasons in the AAC as it stands today...it had everything to do with their team being absolute garbage.

Exactly. Even after several years of awful performance, UConn still has higher attendance than most AAC schools.
 
07-30-2019 02:51 PM
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Post: #50
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
With UConn gone its basically UC, Memphis and Wichita State with any decent attendance numbers. Below that you have SMU who is capped with a small arena that seats only 7K, Temple gets around 6K. Schools like Tulane and ECU are lucky to get 2K in the house.
 
07-30-2019 03:08 PM
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Post: #51
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
(07-30-2019 11:09 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(07-30-2019 07:58 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 03:47 PM)converrl Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 01:32 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 01:18 PM)converrl Wrote:  I don't think so...MBB/WBB are now the revenue sports for their AD. They get to cut a considerable number of scholarships on the women's side and reset their finances. Any coach/recruit now knows that BB is KING at UConn...no diverging of the AD budget to FB. All recruiting all the time. And a solid BB conference to boot.

You mean, getting in the same conference a Villanova.

I think the AAC is on it's way up in BB.

I also think the BE is trending downward. If Villanova's not any good, what else is left?

Creighton and Butler and spiraling and not coming back. Zavier looked a step below where they were with Putin in charge.

Georgetown is a big name, but that's all. Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall and St John's are all never-was has-beens.

UConn is going the way of Army football. They had a nice run. They're quickly becoming a nobody.

I disagree with your assessment of BE MBB. Solid programs include XU, GTown, Butler, Creighton, Nova...all fairly solid with recent success. The conference will become more attractive to top recruits because they will play top-notch competition and the programs won't have to split their budgets with FB.

I find it interesting that several schools with minimal or no FB have made it to the championship over the past decade--especially when you consider that they make up a minority of DI programs. I think it speaks to a trend--if you put the bulk of your resources in one revenue sport, that sport will have a greater chance of success.

There's the sticking point with me.

Yes, they've all had recent success. But where are they headed?

Brad Stevens doesn't coach Butler anymore. If Miller gets IU turned around... bye bye Butler.

Creighton hasn't been much since the coach's kid left.

Villanova has been legit, but they seem to go up and down. If Wright leaves, forget them.

Zavier hopefully has ended their run of lucky coaching hires.

I personally would rather hang around with Houston, Memphis and Wichita St than those guys.

If Temple, SMU and UCF get their acts together, I just don't see how the BE is better than the AAC.

Disagree if you want. I think I'm right.

A good test of a program's staying power is its attendance.

For example, UC stunk for Cronin's first 4 years, but annual attendance always stayed above 7,800 per game.

Average attendance in 2019
Big East: 9,999 (4th)
American: 6,739 (7th)

This disparity will get bigger after UConn leaves.

Bolded, maybe not. Memphis with the #1 recruiting class and rabid fans will likely start filling that big arena on a nightly basis. I look for UC to fill the new 5th/3rd most nights this season too. Wichita is at capacity most every game.

Even P5 conferences in most cases have a few smaller arenas depressing conference averages.

UCONN's two decades plus of success in men's basketball was nothing short of phenomenal. Having been to Hartford, and familiar with both their rather dated "home" courts and campus environment overall, I attribute their success almost entirely to HOF Coach Calhoun.

I don't think they have the staying power to run with the big dogs (UNC, UK, Duke) as they did in the not too distant past, whether in the American or the diluted Big East. They really couldn't hang with the top of the AAC in recent years.

I will miss the UC v. UCONN games as they were among the most entertaining in the conference before the ascent of Houston and the much anticipated rise of Memphis this season. But for AAC football, this is addition by subtraction. And in the long haul, I'm betting football will be the dividing line between schools competing at the high major level from those unwilling or unable to commit the resources to the #1 revenue sport. In this regard, UCONN pretty much conceded it can't compete in football and will drop back now. And perhaps drop out altogether when the dust settles.
 
07-30-2019 03:45 PM
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Post: #52
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
(07-30-2019 07:58 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 03:47 PM)converrl Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 01:32 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 01:18 PM)converrl Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 12:16 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  Let your imagination run wild on what other school's recruiters must have been telling 17 year old prospects about where UCONN football was headed. With UCONN's decision, football's prospects just got considerably worse, not better.

I'm convinced UCONN covertly conducted extensive due diligence to determine it had no realistic pathway to the P5. They cut their losses and have pretty much decided to just be an east coast basketball school--football will exit stage left in the next couple years I believe. Unfortunately, I think its best days are in the rearview mirror in basketball too.

I don't think so...MBB/WBB are now the revenue sports for their AD. They get to cut a considerable number of scholarships on the women's side and reset their finances. Any coach/recruit now knows that BB is KING at UConn...no diverging of the AD budget to FB. All recruiting all the time. And a solid BB conference to boot.

You mean, getting in the same conference a Villanova.

I think the AAC is on it's way up in BB.

I also think the BE is trending downward. If Villanova's not any good, what else is left?

Creighton and Butler and spiraling and not coming back. Zavier looked a step below where they were with Putin in charge.

Georgetown is a big name, but that's all. Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall and St John's are all never-was has-beens.

UConn is going the way of Army football. They had a nice run. They're quickly becoming a nobody.

I disagree with your assessment of BE MBB. Solid programs include XU, GTown, Butler, Creighton, Nova...all fairly solid with recent success. The conference will become more attractive to top recruits because they will play top-notch competition and the programs won't have to split their budgets with FB.

I find it interesting that several schools with minimal or no FB have made it to the championship over the past decade--especially when you consider that they make up a minority of DI programs. I think it speaks to a trend--if you put the bulk of your resources in one revenue sport, that sport will have a greater chance of success.

There's the sticking point with me.

Yes, they've all had recent success. But where are they headed?

Brad Stevens doesn't coach Butler anymore. If Miller gets IU turned around... bye bye Butler.

Creighton hasn't been much since the coach's kid left.

Villanova has been legit, but they seem to go up and down. If Wright leaves, forget them.

Zavier hopefully has ended their run of lucky coaching hires.

I personally would rather hang around with Houston, Memphis and Wichita St than those guys.

If Temple, SMU and UCF get their acts together, I just don't see how the BE is better than the AAC.

Disagree if you want. I think I'm right.

Again--the difference here is that the league is totally dedicated to MBB. They can attract coaches that know this and will get top consideration in recruiting.

Where are these programs heading? Hard to know. One thing is for certain...they aren't tethered to FB and are free to concentrate on MBB and build a schedule that is probably stronger in the non-conference games as well. I would also argue that there are fewer bona fide weak sisters in the BE than the AAC as a percentage.

They also get to recruit the northeast corridor which is rich in MBB talent.

Are they the same league as in the past with the FB members? No...but they have programs that take pride in winning tradition and have cred. If you want a measure of legitimacy in the new BE, count the number of National Championships the current members have...for such a small group of schools, it's fairly impressive.

I ultimately believe they will trend up.

This is not to knock the AAC, but honestly, it's better in FB than MBB. Currently there are 4 marquee programs and the rest are not much to write home about....and many who have never been much good.

This is why I really wish the 2 revenue sports to disengage to form conferences ala carte...let the FB programs associate amongst themselves and do the same with the BB programs--it would ultimately make for better rivalries in both sports and increased interest.
 
07-30-2019 05:35 PM
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Post: #53
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
(07-30-2019 05:35 PM)converrl Wrote:  
(07-30-2019 07:58 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 03:47 PM)converrl Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 01:32 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 01:18 PM)converrl Wrote:  I don't think so...MBB/WBB are now the revenue sports for their AD. They get to cut a considerable number of scholarships on the women's side and reset their finances. Any coach/recruit now knows that BB is KING at UConn...no diverging of the AD budget to FB. All recruiting all the time. And a solid BB conference to boot.

You mean, getting in the same conference a Villanova.

I think the AAC is on it's way up in BB.

I also think the BE is trending downward. If Villanova's not any good, what else is left?

Creighton and Butler and spiraling and not coming back. Zavier looked a step below where they were with Putin in charge.

Georgetown is a big name, but that's all. Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall and St John's are all never-was has-beens.

UConn is going the way of Army football. They had a nice run. They're quickly becoming a nobody.

I disagree with your assessment of BE MBB. Solid programs include XU, GTown, Butler, Creighton, Nova...all fairly solid with recent success. The conference will become more attractive to top recruits because they will play top-notch competition and the programs won't have to split their budgets with FB.

I find it interesting that several schools with minimal or no FB have made it to the championship over the past decade--especially when you consider that they make up a minority of DI programs. I think it speaks to a trend--if you put the bulk of your resources in one revenue sport, that sport will have a greater chance of success.

There's the sticking point with me.

Yes, they've all had recent success. But where are they headed?

Brad Stevens doesn't coach Butler anymore. If Miller gets IU turned around... bye bye Butler.

Creighton hasn't been much since the coach's kid left.

Villanova has been legit, but they seem to go up and down. If Wright leaves, forget them.

Zavier hopefully has ended their run of lucky coaching hires.

I personally would rather hang around with Houston, Memphis and Wichita St than those guys.

If Temple, SMU and UCF get their acts together, I just don't see how the BE is better than the AAC.

Disagree if you want. I think I'm right.

Again--the difference here is that the league is totally dedicated to MBB. They can attract coaches that know this and will get top consideration in recruiting.

Where are these programs heading? Hard to know. One thing is for certain...they aren't tethered to FB and are free to concentrate on MBB and build a schedule that is probably stronger in the non-conference games as well. I would also argue that there are fewer bona fide weak sisters in the BE than the AAC as a percentage.

They also get to recruit the northeast corridor which is rich in MBB talent.

Are they the same league as in the past with the FB members? No...but they have programs that take pride in winning tradition and have cred. If you want a measure of legitimacy in the new BE, count the number of National Championships the current members have...for such a small group of schools, it's fairly impressive.

I ultimately believe they will trend up.

This is not to knock the AAC, but honestly, it's better in FB than MBB. Currently there are 4 marquee programs and the rest are not much to write home about....and many who have never been much good.

This is why I really wish the 2 revenue sports to disengage to form conferences ala carte...let the FB programs associate amongst themselves and do the same with the BB programs--it would ultimately make for better rivalries in both sports and increased interest.

That's actually not true, the gap between the P5 (+nBE) is smaller in basketball than it is football. The AAC was actually ranked higher than the PAC-12 in basketball as a conference last year according to KenPom. The gap is wider between the AAC and the other lower basketball conferences as well.

It's hard for the AAC to justify P6 in football based on performance but there is a clear P7 in basketball.

Losing UConn based on their recent years doesn't really move the needle on that either since they have basically been middle of the pack. Losing UConn is a big perception hit for basketball, but actual conference metrics aren't impacted for the most part.
 
(This post was last modified: 07-30-2019 06:13 PM by UCbball21.)
07-30-2019 06:12 PM
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dubcat14 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
(07-30-2019 03:08 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  With UConn gone its basically UC, Memphis and Wichita State with any decent attendance numbers. Below that you have SMU who is capped with a small arena that seats only 7K, Temple gets around 6K. Schools like Tulane and ECU are lucky to get 2K in the house.

Houston also has their new 7,000 seat arena but yea the first 4 you mentioned plus Houston make up the 5 anchors in conference basketball attendance. If UCF can maintain success they could be up there too but it's sad because if I remember correctly, they were a top 25 team for the second half of the year and still struggled to fill their building.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...ndance.pdf more attendance information here.. nice to see UC in the top 30 in total attendance and we should hopefully stay up there. Also big that the AAC is one of very few conferences to see attendance increase from 2017-2018 to 2018-2019 (a 1,170 per game increase)
 
(This post was last modified: 07-30-2019 06:50 PM by dubcat14.)
07-30-2019 06:47 PM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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Post: #55
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
(07-30-2019 02:51 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(07-30-2019 12:27 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(07-30-2019 12:11 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  
(07-30-2019 11:09 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(07-30-2019 07:58 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  There's the sticking point with me.

Yes, they've all had recent success. But where are they headed?

Brad Stevens doesn't coach Butler anymore. If Miller gets IU turned around... bye bye Butler.

Creighton hasn't been much since the coach's kid left.

Villanova has been legit, but they seem to go up and down. If Wright leaves, forget them.

Zavier hopefully has ended their run of lucky coaching hires.

I personally would rather hang around with Houston, Memphis and Wichita St than those guys.

If Temple, SMU and UCF get their acts together, I just don't see how the BE is better than the AAC.

Disagree if you want. I think I'm right.

A good test of a program's staying power is its attendance.

For example, UC stunk for Cronin's first 4 years, but annual attendance always stayed above 7,800 per game.

Average attendance in 2019
Big East: 9,999 (4th)
American: 6,739 (7th)

This disparity will get bigger after UConn leaves.

Isn't one of the reasons UConn is leaving due to their decreased attendance/support? This would imply they were not drawing what they once did.

UConn Attendance in the last decade:
2019: 8,652
2018: 7,829
2017: 8,508
2016: 10,413
2015: 10,687
2014: 10,134
2013: 10,728
2012: 12,640
2011: 11,569
2010: 11,685

Attendance had nothing to do with the conference, as they were still in 5-figures for two seasons in the AAC as it stands today...it had everything to do with their team being absolute garbage.

Exactly. Even after several years of awful performance, UConn still has higher attendance than most AAC schools.

One thing that will doubtless HELP UConn's attendance in the BE (and that undisputedly HURT their attendance in the AAC...) is the simple fact that there is a far larger portion of the visiting fanbases that will be able to drive in for UConn hosted games.

I live in Morgantown, and my Church parks cars (with the proceeds going to charity) for FB and BB games. We used to make a pretty good amount during BB season in the Big East days. Visiting fans would drive in for evening games from Pitt, Louisville, Cincinnati, and even Georgetown and Villanova. None of that happens now. Parking has shrunk by at least half for mid-week evening games.

UConn rejoining the BE means that fans from Providence, St. John's, Seaton Hall, and even Villanova will be able to easily travel to see their team play at UConn. There is simply no way that can happen in the AAC for UConn or UC. You're not going to get a bunch of SMU fans turning up to watch the Ponies play in Cincinnati on a Tuesday evening. But if you're a Johnnies fan living in the Metro New York area and Saint John's is playing up in Connecticut on a Tuesday...heck, there's no reason you can't pile in the car and drive up and see the game.
 
07-30-2019 07:45 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #56
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
(07-30-2019 06:47 PM)dubcat14 Wrote:  
(07-30-2019 03:08 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  With UConn gone its basically UC, Memphis and Wichita State with any decent attendance numbers. Below that you have SMU who is capped with a small arena that seats only 7K, Temple gets around 6K. Schools like Tulane and ECU are lucky to get 2K in the house.

Houston also has their new 7,000 seat arena but yea the first 4 you mentioned plus Houston make up the 5 anchors in conference basketball attendance. If UCF can maintain success they could be up there too but it's sad because if I remember correctly, they were a top 25 team for the second half of the year and still struggled to fill their building.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...ndance.pdf more attendance information here.. nice to see UC in the top 30 in total attendance and we should hopefully stay up there. Also big that the AAC is one of very few conferences to see attendance increase from 2017-2018 to 2018-2019 (a 1,170 per game increase)

I'm not sure how viable that increase is as a selling point. Most of that was probably caused by the ~3,000/game increase that we saw moving back on campus from NKU.
 
07-30-2019 08:39 PM
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dubcat14 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
(07-30-2019 08:39 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(07-30-2019 06:47 PM)dubcat14 Wrote:  
(07-30-2019 03:08 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  With UConn gone its basically UC, Memphis and Wichita State with any decent attendance numbers. Below that you have SMU who is capped with a small arena that seats only 7K, Temple gets around 6K. Schools like Tulane and ECU are lucky to get 2K in the house.

Houston also has their new 7,000 seat arena but yea the first 4 you mentioned plus Houston make up the 5 anchors in conference basketball attendance. If UCF can maintain success they could be up there too but it's sad because if I remember correctly, they were a top 25 team for the second half of the year and still struggled to fill their building.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...ndance.pdf more attendance information here.. nice to see UC in the top 30 in total attendance and we should hopefully stay up there. Also big that the AAC is one of very few conferences to see attendance increase from 2017-2018 to 2018-2019 (a 1,170 per game increase)

I'm not sure how viable that increase is as a selling point. Most of that was probably caused by the ~3,000/game increase that we saw moving back on campus from NKU.

oh that's true - I didn't make that connection.. I believe Houston's new home is larger than they had in 2017-2018 as well. Without those two, we may have actually seen a decline in attendance.
 
07-30-2019 09:03 PM
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doss2 Offline
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Post: #58
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
(07-30-2019 11:09 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(07-30-2019 07:58 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 03:47 PM)converrl Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 01:32 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 01:18 PM)converrl Wrote:  I don't think so...MBB/WBB are now the revenue sports for their AD. They get to cut a considerable number of scholarships on the women's side and reset their finances. Any coach/recruit now knows that BB is KING at UConn...no diverging of the AD budget to FB. All recruiting all the time. And a solid BB conference to boot.

You mean, getting in the same conference a Villanova.

I think the AAC is on it's way up in BB.

I also think the BE is trending downward. If Villanova's not any good, what else is left?

Creighton and Butler and spiraling and not coming back. Zavier looked a step below where they were with Putin in charge.

Georgetown is a big name, but that's all. Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall and St John's are all never-was has-beens.

UConn is going the way of Army football. They had a nice run. They're quickly becoming a nobody.

I disagree with your assessment of BE MBB. Solid programs include XU, GTown, Butler, Creighton, Nova...all fairly solid with recent success. The conference will become more attractive to top recruits because they will play top-notch competition and the programs won't have to split their budgets with FB.

I find it interesting that several schools with minimal or no FB have made it to the championship over the past decade--especially when you consider that they make up a minority of DI programs. I think it speaks to a trend--if you put the bulk of your resources in one revenue sport, that sport will have a greater chance of success.

There's the sticking point with me.

Yes, they've all had recent success. But where are they headed?

Brad Stevens doesn't coach Butler anymore. If Miller gets IU turned around... bye bye Butler.

Creighton hasn't been much since the coach's kid left.

Villanova has been legit, but they seem to go up and down. If Wright leaves, forget them.

Zavier hopefully has ended their run of lucky coaching hires.

I personally would rather hang around with Houston, Memphis and Wichita St than those guys.

If Temple, SMU and UCF get their acts together, I just don't see how the BE is better than the AAC.

Disagree if you want. I think I'm right.

A good test of a program's staying power is its attendance.

For example, UC stunk for Cronin's first 4 years, but annual attendance always stayed above 7,800 per game.

Average attendance in 2019
Big East: 9,999 (4th)
American: 6,739 (7th)

This disparity will get bigger after UConn leaves.
UM 18,119
UC 12,012 LARGEST ON CAMPUS AND P5 READY
WS 10,506
USF 10,411
TEM 10,206
UCF 9,465
TULSA 8,355
ECU 8.000
UH 7,100 SURE NOT P5 SIZE
SMU 7.000
TULANE 4,100 PERFECT HS SIZE
 
07-31-2019 06:10 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #59
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
Tbh I do not know if basketball attendance is all that important for P5 consideration. It is all about football. Interestingly, shedding UConn from the conference will result in a higher average attendance for the AAC.
 
07-31-2019 06:51 AM
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GoCats1994 Offline
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Post: #60
RE: UConn & AAC Agree to $17M Exit Fee
Strange conversation

There are 7 BB conferences that matter. The Big East is one of them. The AAC is also one of them.

What the Big East has going for it is balance. It is a competitive league.

The problem the AAC has is with it's cellar. Tulane, ECU, SMU... are not good
 
07-31-2019 09:03 AM
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