(07-25-2019 08:30 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  Southern Miss
2018 (6-5) 21,615
2017 (8-5) 21,711
2016 (7-6) 28,588
2015 (9-5) 28,335
2014 (3-9) 22,739
2013 (1-11) 22,752

You can see exactly where USM started to actually count scanned tix/butts in the seat and not just tickets sold/given away. The new regime started this between the '16 and '17 seasons. They used to give away so many tix to foundations, organizations, businesses, leagues etc...and those counted towards attendance. It's obvious that many schools in CUSA and around the country still do this. I'm glad we aren't doing it anymore because now it gives us a more accurate look into how many warm bodies are going to games.

What's crazy, is we've made more tix revenue from the '17 & '18 season (both about 21.6k avg) than those two seasons we "averaged" 28k.

I wish wku would just post paid attendance. Every b-ball game would be a sellout. The football games would be a lot better when we were good. Especially if you count students.

(07-25-2019 06:32 AM)va-eagle Wrote:  

(07-24-2019 11:03 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-24-2019 10:50 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  WKUYG, you have some serious jealous issues with UTSA and UTEP.

CFN did this report on the numbers reported to the NCAA. Get over it. I wish you were more concerned with WKU's FCS level of support. Especially considering the two year run you had and Top 25 finish.

Are you really that stupid to not understand those documents are actual reports each school turned into the NCAA. Unlike making up a number for a box score....

you lie on these reports and you get sanctioned.

Something else you most likely dont understand. When UTSA reported paid attendance it was probably greater than actual. And when they used actual it was probably greater than paid.

Something else you are not understanding. Marshall's 24k is actually very close to Western's 16,381. Not in make believe land that you live in but the real world. So welcome to the FCS

Last season there was a report that showed the announced vs the actual. WKU had the highest percentage when comparing announced to actual. That's great, except that indicates that it is harder for WKU to grow the actual number, which schools like Marshall (and others) can grow the actual number. Basically, if Marshall sells 30k tickets and only 15k fans show up compared to WKU selling 17k tickets and 16k showing up, Marshall can go on a winning streak or play a quality opponent at home and it is easier for them to get the other 15k fans to show up.

That said. Fans (and potential players) look at reports like the one linked and guage CUSA based on attendance. I looked at the AAC and I can say that I watched a Memphis game and the stands were empty. I've watched USF games and the stands empty. This is the world we live in. Focus on selling more tickets at WKU.

It looks like for the 3rd or is it the 4th time, I need to explain this to you? You are comparing two things when it should be THREE.

1. Yes, Western's announced and scanned tickets are close to the same.

2. That is not PAID or tickets sold tickets

Western has just as many fans that buy tickets and dont show up to games as most, if not, all, CUSA schools.

Now for the umpteen time I will use basketball to illustrate that to you. Diddle Arena was sold out (for the season) yet scanned tickets/announced was less than 6k

Why is this so hard for you to understand? Do you really think, every season ticket holder in FB is showing up to every game? Western is probably in the top 5 in CUSA on season ticket holders. Unless that has changed under Boy Idiot.

So again you are confusing announced vs scanned with tickets sold. But that's probably my fault, sometime I confuse myself...till I go back and edit

clt says this needs an asterisk for hurricanes.

(07-25-2019 11:15 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-25-2019 06:32 AM)va-eagle Wrote:  

(07-24-2019 11:03 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-24-2019 10:50 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  WKUYG, you have some serious jealous issues with UTSA and UTEP.

CFN did this report on the numbers reported to the NCAA. Get over it. I wish you were more concerned with WKU's FCS level of support. Especially considering the two year run you had and Top 25 finish.

Are you really that stupid to not understand those documents are actual reports each school turned into the NCAA. Unlike making up a number for a box score....

you lie on these reports and you get sanctioned.

Something else you most likely dont understand. When UTSA reported paid attendance it was probably greater than actual. And when they used actual it was probably greater than paid.

Something else you are not understanding. Marshall's 24k is actually very close to Western's 16,381. Not in make believe land that you live in but the real world. So welcome to the FCS

Last season there was a report that showed the announced vs the actual. WKU had the highest percentage when comparing announced to actual. That's great, except that indicates that it is harder for WKU to grow the actual number, which schools like Marshall (and others) can grow the actual number. Basically, if Marshall sells 30k tickets and only 15k fans show up compared to WKU selling 17k tickets and 16k showing up, Marshall can go on a winning streak or play a quality opponent at home and it is easier for them to get the other 15k fans to show up.

That said. Fans (and potential players) look at reports like the one linked and guage CUSA based on attendance. I looked at the AAC and I can say that I watched a Memphis game and the stands were empty. I've watched USF games and the stands empty. This is the world we live in. Focus on selling more tickets at WKU.

It looks like for the 3rd or is it the 4th time, I need to explain this to you? You are comparing two things when it should be THREE.

1. Yes, Western's announced and scanned tickets are close to the same.

2. That is not PAID or tickets sold tickets

Western has just as many fans that buy tickets and dont show up to games as most, if not, all, CUSA schools.

Now for the umpteen time I will use basketball to illustrate that to you. Diddle Arena was sold out (for the season) yet scanned tickets/announced was less than 6k

Why is this so hard for you to understand? Do you really think, every season ticket holder in FB is showing up to every game? Western is probably in the top 5 in CUSA on season ticket holders. Unless that has changed under Boy Idiot.

So again you are confusing announced vs scanned with tickets sold. But that's probably my fault, sometime I confuse myself...till I go back and edit

You are saying there are 3 buckets:
1. Tickets sold
2. Announced attendance
3. Scanned tickets (butts in seat)

WKU doesn't disclose bucket 1. They report bucket 2 as game attendance. They definitely don't report 3 since the report from last season wasn't 100%.

How does WKU derive #2? It can't be from scanned tickets and you say it isn't from tickets sold.

(07-25-2019 07:56 AM)chidave Wrote:  Southern Miss needs to improve upon their .500 record in football versus Charlotte before they cast too many stones.

You averaged <12K attendance last 2 seasons. All your conference mates should be casting stones.

If you were a private school with an enrollment of 3K students, maybe. But, you have 30k students and churning out large volume of alumni. Since most of the alumni were basketball fans (haven't had FB for that long), do you think the FB attendance is low because those fans aren't that interested in UNCC sports now that the basketball is down?

(07-25-2019 11:28 AM)va-eagle Wrote:  

(07-25-2019 11:15 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-25-2019 06:32 AM)va-eagle Wrote:  

(07-24-2019 11:03 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-24-2019 10:50 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  WKUYG, you have some serious jealous issues with UTSA and UTEP.

CFN did this report on the numbers reported to the NCAA. Get over it. I wish you were more concerned with WKU's FCS level of support. Especially considering the two year run you had and Top 25 finish.

Are you really that stupid to not understand those documents are actual reports each school turned into the NCAA. Unlike making up a number for a box score....

you lie on these reports and you get sanctioned.

Something else you most likely dont understand. When UTSA reported paid attendance it was probably greater than actual. And when they used actual it was probably greater than paid.

Something else you are not understanding. Marshall's 24k is actually very close to Western's 16,381. Not in make believe land that you live in but the real world. So welcome to the FCS

Last season there was a report that showed the announced vs the actual. WKU had the highest percentage when comparing announced to actual. That's great, except that indicates that it is harder for WKU to grow the actual number, which schools like Marshall (and others) can grow the actual number. Basically, if Marshall sells 30k tickets and only 15k fans show up compared to WKU selling 17k tickets and 16k showing up, Marshall can go on a winning streak or play a quality opponent at home and it is easier for them to get the other 15k fans to show up.

That said. Fans (and potential players) look at reports like the one linked and guage CUSA based on attendance. I looked at the AAC and I can say that I watched a Memphis game and the stands were empty. I've watched USF games and the stands empty. This is the world we live in. Focus on selling more tickets at WKU.

It looks like for the 3rd or is it the 4th time, I need to explain this to you? You are comparing two things when it should be THREE.

1. Yes, Western's announced and scanned tickets are close to the same.

2. That is not PAID or tickets sold tickets

Western has just as many fans that buy tickets and dont show up to games as most, if not, all, CUSA schools.

Now for the umpteen time I will use basketball to illustrate that to you. Diddle Arena was sold out (for the season) yet scanned tickets/announced was less than 6k

Why is this so hard for you to understand? Do you really think, every season ticket holder in FB is showing up to every game? Western is probably in the top 5 in CUSA on season ticket holders. Unless that has changed under Boy Idiot.

So again you are confusing announced vs scanned with tickets sold. But that's probably my fault, sometime I confuse myself...till I go back and edit

You are saying there are 3 buckets:
1. Tickets sold
2. Announced attendance
3. Scanned tickets (butts in seat)

WKU doesn't disclose bucket 1. They report bucket 2 as game attendance. They definitely don't report 3 since the report from last season wasn't 100%.

How does WKU derive #2? It can't be from scanned tickets and you say it isn't from tickets sold.

Western's scanned and announced are with in 95.1% of each other. So I assume Western is using scanned to account for the 95.1% and I assume the other 4.9% is free tickets for family of players/passes, stadium workers, and I would also assume there are glitches in scanning. I would not be surprised if Western gave out 500 to 1000 tickets to players and friends and friends of the school for each game. While that number comes up in "announced attendance". Each ticket has a bar code and once it's in the computer it's disregarded


edit: The NCAA allows at least 2 tickets for each player on the team and it could be three but I know two for a fact. My son and I used players "passes" for most away basketball and FB games. At Western there is a gate for passes only and I have season tickets so I dont know if its turn stile or scanned. That could make part of the difference


I personally think scanning glitches only make up a small part of any mistakes in announced vs scanned...1 to 3%. But I have no way of knowing that, I haven't researched what that amount would be.

(07-24-2019 09:03 PM)va-eagle Wrote:  UNCC needs to play app st twice each season so they will fill up their stadium and help the 49ers improve that stat.

If I’m USM, I’m concerned that I averaged 28000 in 14-16 and have averaged 21500 in 17-18

(07-25-2019 11:58 AM)Tintin Wrote:  

(07-24-2019 09:03 PM)va-eagle Wrote:  UNCC needs to play app st twice each season so they will fill up their stadium and help the 49ers improve that stat.

If I’m USM, I’m concerned that I averaged 28000 in 14-16 and have averaged 21500 in 17-18

A new AD came in and made changes to how tickets were given out and counted.

(07-25-2019 09:18 AM)Lizard Breath Wrote:  

(07-25-2019 08:17 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-25-2019 07:32 AM)freshtop Wrote:  

(07-25-2019 12:03 AM)Lizard Breath Wrote:  

(07-24-2019 10:47 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Well if no one else is going to point out the elephant in the room. I will. I have a feeling UTSA and UTEP isnt close to being the only school just making up numbers for attendance. Maybe this is the proper use for . Yes I know it's beating a dead horse and almost like the MSM today. Some things you just have to keep pointing out then hopefully one day facts will actually matter. It's not like someone is saying blue and 'im just saying red for the hell of it...actual reports from schools of actual facts reported to the NCAA





how do you get a 21,658 avg over 5 years when you cant even get a 15k avg over a rolling 2 year period

So they account for free tickets as well? There are hundreds of outlets giving free tickets away every year

The NCAA allows you to base your attendance numbers on actual attendance OR paid attendance. UTSA used actual attendance for 2018. We would have to look at previous years audits to know if those numbers were paid or actual. I would assume that actual means the real number of butts in the seats, but there may be some loophole I am missing.

Looking through some of the info at the bottom I suppose there is a way to lose some paid tickets from the paid ticket total (which was not used by UTSA for 2018).
https://www.utsystem.edu/sites/default/f...report.pdf

It looks like tickets only count as paid if they are priced at 1/3 the original value or higher. Any ticket counts as paid if it is actually used to attend the event (I think this bylaw prevents an outfit for buying up all unsold tickets for $1 a piece just to claim a sellout). There are several provisions for counting students as paid, but again, only the students that attend the event count.

The Pizza Hut tickets may have been free to the customers, but they were paid for by Pizza Hut. So they would count as tickets sold.

Are you sure they were paid for by Pizza Hut? Also, I know that free tickets were given out to the many military (5) bases ( Randloph) (Lackland) (BAMC) ( Ft Sam) ( Camp Bullis) we have in SA. They were also given out to USAA for free & hospitals for free. Those were given for free for sure. I know a few games, especially non conference the numbers were pretty accurate, when we had P5’s here especially & Texas St. I think you have to be careful with the free tickets. A lot of seniors & others got a ton of free tickets numerous times.

The free ticket thing only bites you in the butt if you are using paid attendance. All tickets (free or otherwise, including students) are included in the actual attendance metric. The only people missing would be those that somehow made it in the stadium without going through a turnstile.

(07-25-2019 11:58 AM)Tintin Wrote:  

(07-24-2019 09:03 PM)va-eagle Wrote:  UNCC needs to play app st twice each season so they will fill up their stadium and help the 49ers improve that stat.

If I’m USM, I’m concerned that I averaged 28000 in 14-16 and have averaged 21500 in 17-18

Read more, post less. This is explained at the top of this page.

(07-25-2019 11:34 AM)va-eagle Wrote:  

(07-25-2019 07:56 AM)chidave Wrote:  Southern Miss needs to improve upon their .500 record in football versus Charlotte before they cast too many stones.

You averaged <12K attendance last 2 seasons. All your conference mates should be casting stones.

If you were a private school with an enrollment of 3K students, maybe. But, you have 30k students and churning out large volume of alumni. Since most of the alumni were basketball fans (haven't had FB for that long), do you think the FB attendance is low because those fans aren't that interested in UNCC sports now that the basketball is down?

I would say a school that calls itself a flagship, according to its fans has amazing history, and thinks it’s toogood for this conference should probably fill the other 40% of the stadium before throwing stones.

Charlotte’s former athletic director has tons to do with Charlotte lack of attendance and that’s not just because of Lambert.

Alums still don’t think you can acquire single game (much less season) tickets without an FSL. They did little to no advertising in the area, built the stadium without lights forcing 12:00 games in August and September (the third thing every Charlotte fan mentions about the Campbell game is the heat), archaic tailgating policies, not letting the kids tailgate close to the stadium, scheduling games over fall break (4 for 6). All this on top of having a terrible product on the field for six seasons

Last season we had the season opener delayed and halftime extended for two hours due to a storm. The Old Dominion game (parents weekend) was played at 3:00 on a Thursday due to the hurricane. This cost us a good 12000 bodies at the Rich in 2018.

I have no problem predicting a 20% increase in attendance in 2019. If we can win a game or two early, I’ve got no problem thinking we go 100%.

We need to find a way to play USM twelve times a year instead of App twice. The USM schedule will get us bowl eligible if the historical pattern holds.

(07-24-2019 08:52 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  LINK


Pretty interesting. They have every conference broken down with their average attendance over last 5 years. Here is CUSA.

Marshall- 24,851
So Miss- 24,597
UTSA- 24,230
La Tech- 21,868
UTEP- 21,658
ODU- 20,021

Rice- 19,770
North Texas- 19,699
MTSU- 16,611
WKU- 16,381
FAU- 15,560

FIU- 14,821
UAB- 14,501
Charlotte- 13,139


CUSA Average- 19,122

4 out of the top are in the West:
USM
UTSA
Tech
UTEP

Rice is not too far behind, UNT and UAB is in the rear out West

(07-25-2019 02:41 PM)Dawgxas Wrote:  

(07-24-2019 08:52 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  LINK


Pretty interesting. They have every conference broken down with their average attendance over last 5 years. Here is CUSA.

Marshall- 24,851
So Miss- 24,597
UTSA- 24,230
La Tech- 21,868
UTEP- 21,658
ODU- 20,021

Rice- 19,770
North Texas- 19,699
MTSU- 16,611
WKU- 16,381
FAU- 15,560

FIU- 14,821
UAB- 14,501
Charlotte- 13,139


CUSA Average- 19,122

4 out of the top are in the West:
USM
UTSA
Tech
UTEP

Rice is not too far behind, UNT and UAB is in the rear out West

We are the SEC West of the G5. Clearly USM is the Alabama of the G5 too.

(07-25-2019 03:32 PM)everyone Wrote:  

(07-25-2019 02:41 PM)Dawgxas Wrote:  

(07-24-2019 08:52 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  LINK


Pretty interesting. They have every conference broken down with their average attendance over last 5 years. Here is CUSA.

Marshall- 24,851
So Miss- 24,597
UTSA- 24,230
La Tech- 21,868
UTEP- 21,658
ODU- 20,021

Rice- 19,770
North Texas- 19,699
MTSU- 16,611
WKU- 16,381
FAU- 15,560

FIU- 14,821
UAB- 14,501
Charlotte- 13,139


CUSA Average- 19,122

4 out of the top are in the West:
USM
UTSA
Tech
UTEP

Rice is not too far behind, UNT and UAB is in the rear out West

We are the SEC West of the G5. Clearly USM is the Alabama of the G5 too.

Trolling much?

(07-25-2019 11:34 AM)va-eagle Wrote:  

(07-25-2019 07:56 AM)chidave Wrote:  Southern Miss needs to improve upon their .500 record in football versus Charlotte before they cast too many stones.

You averaged <12K attendance last 2 seasons. All your conference mates should be casting stones.

If you were a private school with an enrollment of 3K students, maybe. But, you have 30k students and churning out large volume of alumni. Since most of the alumni were basketball fans (haven't had FB for that long), do you think the FB attendance is low because those fans aren't that interested in UNCC sports now that the basketball is down?

These attendance numbers are inflated by some schools so don't read too much into how low our numbers are. Our revenue from ticket sales were...

2014 - 8th in conference
2015 - 8th in conference
2016 - 6th in conference
2017 - 8th in conference

While these rankings are for all sports it is not like our numbers are inflated by basketball or any other sports. I think Charlotte has a few things going against it for attendance such as being a new program and being in a large city with competition. However, there is growing interest in the new regime and we are recruiting more local talent. I think these along with the anticipated changes to the fan experience at football games as well as a future stadium expansion will draw better attendance.

The thing that hurt us most has probably been student apathy for the program. The previous regime killed student interest by limiting the quantity of student tickets and creating a system where the most die-hard fans may not have a chance at a ticket. These things are changing slowly and as we do better as a team more local interest will follow.

(07-25-2019 05:28 PM)Dowless Wrote:  

(07-25-2019 11:34 AM)va-eagle Wrote:  

(07-25-2019 07:56 AM)chidave Wrote:  Southern Miss needs to improve upon their .500 record in football versus Charlotte before they cast too many stones.

You averaged <12K attendance last 2 seasons. All your conference mates should be casting stones.

If you were a private school with an enrollment of 3K students, maybe. But, you have 30k students and churning out large volume of alumni. Since most of the alumni were basketball fans (haven't had FB for that long), do you think the FB attendance is low because those fans aren't that interested in UNCC sports now that the basketball is down?

These attendance numbers are inflated by some schools so don't read too much into how low our numbers are. Our revenue from ticket sales were...

2014 - 8th in conference
2015 - 8th in conference
2016 - 6th in conference
2017 - 8th in conference

While these rankings are for all sports it is not like our numbers are inflated by basketball or any other sports. I think Charlotte has a few things going against it for attendance such as being a new program and being in a large city with competition. However, there is growing interest in the new regime and we are recruiting more local talent. I think these along with the anticipated changes to the fan experience at football games as well as a future stadium expansion will draw better attendance.

The thing that hurt us most has probably been student apathy for the program. The previous regime killed student interest by limiting the quantity of student tickets and creating a system where the most die-hard fans may not have a chance at a ticket. These things are changing slowly and as we do better as a team more local interest will follow.

Limiting student tickets is a strange one. Was that just for football and only because of the limited seating? If it is for all sports I just don't get it.

clt says the students were tailgating, showing up for kickoff, then leaving at halftime to tailgate more. Problem all over college FB

(07-25-2019 06:18 PM)ghostofclt! Wrote:  clt says the students were tailgating, showing up for kickoff, then leaving at halftime to tailgate more. Problem all over college FB

Are UNCC trustees on board with beer sales at sporting events?