(07-23-2019 06:44 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  

(07-23-2019 06:12 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(07-23-2019 05:02 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Basketball guys always tend to forget that football pays the athletic dept bills. The loss of Huskie basketball is certainly a brand power hit but in the grand scheme they are losing a below average football program

Then why did the C7 get a bigger contract after the split?

They left us with you

Which one of us has always been in a power conference?

(07-23-2019 02:40 PM)bullet Wrote:  In that regard, I think the MAC would be helped in football if they could return to being a regular 2 bid league in basketball.

The success of the non-FBS schools in basketball has declined since the 80s with the rise in football exposure. The all year round coverage is an advantage.

Its the consolidation into power conferences that hurt the most.

If you go back to the 80's there were more "major" FB and basketball conferences.

FB: ACC, B1G, VIII, SEC, SWC, WAC, PAC
BB: BE, A10, Metro, Horizon, SBC, MVC, Big West

For BB purposes their were roughly 14 major conferences. Today its the P5 plus Big East and AAC rounding out the majors.

There is a high mid major tier though which I'd include the G4, WCC, A10 and MVC. They don't compete at the big time level though as the BB conferences in the past did but still a full step up from the low majors.

(07-23-2019 05:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-23-2019 05:02 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Basketball guys always tend to forget that football pays the athletic dept bills. The loss of Huskie basketball is certainly a brand power hit but in the grand scheme they are losing a below average football program

That's true at Ohio State, where you fill up a 100k seat stadium with thousand-dollar seat licenses, luxury boxes, etc.

But at G5 schools, football bleeds money, moreso than any other of the sports.

It's the opposite of a bill-payer, it's the biggest source of debt.

Not at all G5 schools. Football is a huge money-maker for both ECU and Greenville. It’s dropped off since the Ruff firing, but we’re righting the ship. Football ticket sales bring in more than enough to cover football expenses.

(07-23-2019 09:15 PM)Chappy Wrote:  

(07-23-2019 05:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-23-2019 05:02 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Basketball guys always tend to forget that football pays the athletic dept bills. The loss of Huskie basketball is certainly a brand power hit but in the grand scheme they are losing a below average football program

That's true at Ohio State, where you fill up a 100k seat stadium with thousand-dollar seat licenses, luxury boxes, etc.

But at G5 schools, football bleeds money, moreso than any other of the sports.

It's the opposite of a bill-payer, it's the biggest source of debt.

Not at all G5 schools. Football is a huge money-maker for both ECU and Greenville. It’s dropped off since the Ruff firing, but we’re righting the ship. Football ticket sales bring in more than enough to cover football expenses.

ECU also runs the smallest football budget in the conference, I believe. I know it sounds like I'm taking a dig at them, but it may just be everyone's reality in the G5 - either run a real budget program or run a significant deficit.

(07-23-2019 05:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-23-2019 05:02 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Basketball guys always tend to forget that football pays the athletic dept bills. The loss of Huskie basketball is certainly a brand power hit but in the grand scheme they are losing a below average football program

That's true at Ohio State, where you fill up a 100k seat stadium with thousand-dollar seat licenses, luxury boxes, etc.

But at G5 schools, football bleeds money, moreso than any other of the sports.

It's the opposite of a bill-payer, it's the biggest source of debt.

Without FB though you can kiss TV money goodbye at G5 schools and the revenue those programs bring in.

EMU spends 8 million on operating its total athletic department, not counting scholarships which are an expense credit from the university. That 5 million of income directly from having a FBS football program is valuable.

Its the Olympic sports where they don't bring in very much at all in revenue and aren't important to TV revenue sharing that end up as the debt.

(07-23-2019 02:39 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  It's not good, and far from ideal, but I don't particularly see how this hurts Memphis that much. Memphis has had plenty of periods of being an elite program and recruiting at an elite level even when they weren't in an elite league. Their best run came under Cal in the at most 2 bid C-USA 2.0. Even without UCONN the AAC is a considerably better league than that version of C-USA, and superior than any league Memphis has been in other than C-USA 1.0. The AAC will still be a multi-bid league every year. If you were going to pick a school UCONN leaving hurts more it would be an ECU type program who sells hard on the recruiting trail the league members it plays. I highly doubt Penny's main selling point (or even ever selling point) is "hey we play UCONN every year." For ECU it would be a flat out lie to say our coaches don't sell the league and being "peers" with the likes of UCONN, Memphis, Cincy, etc.

Good post. I like Memphis. But they are what they are. High enough "cache" to be in that tier of conferences JUST below the top Conferences, but can't quite break that glass ceiling either.

So, it's the Metro Conference, and then the Great Midwest, and then C-USA, and then the American.

Not bad. But those conferences experience flux. Teams will come and go. Sometimes you're playing hoops with Louisville, Connecticut and Marquette. Sometimes you aren't. Sometimes you're playing hoops with Marshall and Rice (no disrespect meant to them, but they aren't hoops powers). Sometimes you aren't.

Despite it all, Memphis can still succeed at top National levels. I'm confident they are capable of that.

I see you're a UAB fan - I'd love to see you guys get an American invite.

He did not say losing Conn would hurt recruiting
He said in hurt the conf in general
Apparently he better grasp of college athletics than anybody tought

UConn went from the catbird seat to downgraded themselves out of a P5 spot. This also downgraded the AAC as well. UConn was not the worst team in the AAC. It is Tulsa and Tulane. AAC should never invited them. The North Dakota State and South Dakota State both have better fan support for their football teams, and they both are contending for the FCS titles. Even their basketball have been better than those two, and at times, better than UConn. AAC had a problem image wise with Tulsa and Tulane. UConn leaving made it even worst.

You Never AAC’ers always come on here every day peopheyizing the end of the road for this conference. It reminds me of the 80s B movie “Hysterical”, where the character kept dropping in with the “you’re doomed” line.

Can’t speak for anyone else, but my alma mater Cincinnati will continue doing what they do and I am pretty sure the likes of Houston, Memphis, Wichita, Temple and now UCF and USF will continue as well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=21WpGPtwknc

(07-23-2019 09:26 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(07-23-2019 05:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-23-2019 05:02 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Basketball guys always tend to forget that football pays the athletic dept bills. The loss of Huskie basketball is certainly a brand power hit but in the grand scheme they are losing a below average football program

That's true at Ohio State, where you fill up a 100k seat stadium with thousand-dollar seat licenses, luxury boxes, etc.

But at G5 schools, football bleeds money, moreso than any other of the sports.

It's the opposite of a bill-payer, it's the biggest source of debt.

Without FB though you can kiss TV money goodbye at G5 schools and the revenue those programs bring in.

EMU spends 8 million on operating its total athletic department, not counting scholarships which are an expense credit from the university. That 5 million of income directly from having a FBS football program is valuable.

Its the Olympic sports where they don't bring in very much at all in revenue and aren't important to TV revenue sharing that end up as the debt.

I would bet that at most G5 schools, the TV money brought in isn't nearly enough to offset the dead-weight loss of football. I mean, what does the MAC get for TV revenue, $1.5m?

Now assuming 80% for football, the new AAC contract is going to mean that football is getting paid about $5.5m a year. I still bet that isn't enough to cover football expenses at most AAC schools.

(07-24-2019 06:39 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  You Never AAC’ers always come on here every day peopheyizing the end of the road for this conference. It reminds me of the 80s B movie “Hysterical”, where the character kept dropping in with the “you’re doomed” line.

I don't see anyone prophesying "the end" of the AAC. The AAC is clearly the strongest G5 conference so unless the entire G5 goes away it obviously isn't going anywhere. The OP is a good example, he doesn't predict gloom/doom for the conference, he just notes that UConn's departure is obviously a blow to the conference, which it is.

What we do get a lot of around here is boasting by AAC fanboys about how great the AAC is, how it is a P6 conference and stuff like that. E.g., some AAC fans have actually tried to argue that UConn leaving is a case of "good riddance", that the league is actually stronger without them, which is absurd.

These AAC fans are like that Knight in the Monty Python movie, whose statements about how he is going to sack the castle and take over the land become bolder and bolder even as his body parts are getting hacked off.


SJ & KH 7/24/79 - 7/24/19
40 years

(07-24-2019 07:09 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-23-2019 09:26 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(07-23-2019 05:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-23-2019 05:02 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Basketball guys always tend to forget that football pays the athletic dept bills. The loss of Huskie basketball is certainly a brand power hit but in the grand scheme they are losing a below average football program

That's true at Ohio State, where you fill up a 100k seat stadium with thousand-dollar seat licenses, luxury boxes, etc.

But at G5 schools, football bleeds money, moreso than any other of the sports.

It's the opposite of a bill-payer, it's the biggest source of debt.

Without FB though you can kiss TV money goodbye at G5 schools and the revenue those programs bring in.

EMU spends 8 million on operating its total athletic department, not counting scholarships which are an expense credit from the university. That 5 million of income directly from having a FBS football program is valuable.

Its the Olympic sports where they don't bring in very much at all in revenue and aren't important to TV revenue sharing that end up as the debt.

I would bet that at most G5 schools, the TV money brought in isn't nearly enough to offset the dead-weight loss of football. I mean, what does the MAC get for TV revenue, $1.5m?

Now assuming 80% for football, the new AAC contract is going to mean that football is getting paid about $5.5m a year. I still bet that isn't enough to cover football expenses at most AAC schools.

With the TV money in the G5 you have to consider both the conference deal and the CFP money paid for by ESPN.

In 2016 the year the MAC picked up a CFP bowl they brought home a combined $32 million from ESPN or $2.7 million per school on average.

The next CFP deal could very well be double in value and so could an extension of the MAC deal. Its possible to eventually push those per school dollars into the 7 or 8 million dollar per school range that will essentially cover salaries and operating costs.

EMU I putting out there as poster child for low ticket revenue and marketing revenue. Some of the MAC is pulling in decent donations and revenue streams to go with that TV money. There is also NCAA money which MAC member you'll get a cut of and its larger than what the non-FBS conferences take in.

(07-24-2019 02:15 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  He did not say losing Conn would hurt recruiting
He said in hurt the conf in general
Apparently he better grasp of college athletics than anybody tought

He does.
No question.

One thing that has become clear in the UConn matter is that fans of both the American and Big East conferences can resort to "fanboy behavior." And it's unfortunate.

As noted in a previous post, I once would sometimes act like a fanboy. But a key incident about 10 years ago (I was ashamed of myself) motivated me to view my support of the various universities/athletics programs that I follow in a much more realistic manner.

You have to want to change, to realize that saying "this is a blow and let's not sugarcoat it" is being honest with yourself. Both the AAC and the Big East have their shortcomings and challenges. And both also have strengths and positives. A fair-minded fan will acknowledge the former and not gloat about or exaggerate the latter.

(07-24-2019 07:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-24-2019 06:39 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  You Never AAC’ers always come on here every day peopheyizing the end of the road for this conference. It reminds me of the 80s B movie “Hysterical”, where the character kept dropping in with the “you’re doomed” line.

I don't see anyone prophesying "the end" of the AAC. The AAC is clearly the strongest G5 conference so unless the entire G5 goes away it obviously isn't going anywhere. The OP is a good example, he doesn't predict gloom/doom for the conference, he just notes that UConn's departure is obviously a blow to the conference, which it is.

What we do get a lot of around here is boasting by AAC fanboys about how great the AAC is, how it is a P6 conference and stuff like that. E.g., some AAC fans have actually tried to argue that UConn leaving is a case of "good riddance", that the league is actually stronger without them, which is absurd.

These AAC fans are like that Knight in the Monty Python movie, whose statements about how he is going to sack the castle and take over the land become bolder and bolder even as his body parts are getting hacked off.

AAC just lost their flagship blue blood basketball program. Of course that's a huge blow. I don't think its the death of the AAC though. They can still average 3/4 bids a year pretty consistently.

(07-24-2019 01:11 AM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  

(07-23-2019 02:39 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  It's not good, and far from ideal, but I don't particularly see how this hurts Memphis that much. Memphis has had plenty of periods of being an elite program and recruiting at an elite level even when they weren't in an elite league. Their best run came under Cal in the at most 2 bid C-USA 2.0. Even without UCONN the AAC is a considerably better league than that version of C-USA, and superior than any league Memphis has been in other than C-USA 1.0. The AAC will still be a multi-bid league every year. If you were going to pick a school UCONN leaving hurts more it would be an ECU type program who sells hard on the recruiting trail the league members it plays. I highly doubt Penny's main selling point (or even ever selling point) is "hey we play UCONN every year." For ECU it would be a flat out lie to say our coaches don't sell the league and being "peers" with the likes of UCONN, Memphis, Cincy, etc.

Good post. I like Memphis. But they are what they are. High enough "cache" to be in that tier of conferences JUST below the top Conferences, but can't quite break that glass ceiling either.

So, it's the Metro Conference, and then the Great Midwest, and then C-USA, and then the American.

Not bad. But those conferences experience flux. Teams will come and go. Sometimes you're playing hoops with Louisville, Connecticut and Marquette. Sometimes you aren't. Sometimes you're playing hoops with Marshall and Rice (no disrespect meant to them, but they aren't hoops powers). Sometimes you aren't.

Despite it all, Memphis can still succeed at top National levels. I'm confident they are capable of that.

I see you're a UAB fan - I'd love to see you guys get an American invite.

Actually an ECU fan. Changed it to the Blazer logo in solidarity when their program got killed and quite frankly have just been too lazy to change it back. Either way though Penny is overstating how much this hurts Memphis, but I think it probably does hurt ECU as much as he's saying. On the list of things Penny is selling to recruits "being in a conference with UCONN" is so far down the list it's almost meaningless. If you are ECU's coach selling to recruits you are in a conference with UCONN, Cincy, Memphis, etc is probably one of your top 2 or 3 pitches. It's the big separator for ECU from the likes of UNCW, UNCC, ODU, and other mid major regional programs with much better history and tradition than us.

(07-24-2019 08:28 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(07-24-2019 07:09 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-23-2019 09:26 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(07-23-2019 05:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-23-2019 05:02 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Basketball guys always tend to forget that football pays the athletic dept bills. The loss of Huskie basketball is certainly a brand power hit but in the grand scheme they are losing a below average football program

That's true at Ohio State, where you fill up a 100k seat stadium with thousand-dollar seat licenses, luxury boxes, etc.

But at G5 schools, football bleeds money, moreso than any other of the sports.

It's the opposite of a bill-payer, it's the biggest source of debt.

Without FB though you can kiss TV money goodbye at G5 schools and the revenue those programs bring in.

EMU spends 8 million on operating its total athletic department, not counting scholarships which are an expense credit from the university. That 5 million of income directly from having a FBS football program is valuable.

Its the Olympic sports where they don't bring in very much at all in revenue and aren't important to TV revenue sharing that end up as the debt.

I would bet that at most G5 schools, the TV money brought in isn't nearly enough to offset the dead-weight loss of football. I mean, what does the MAC get for TV revenue, $1.5m?

Now assuming 80% for football, the new AAC contract is going to mean that football is getting paid about $5.5m a year. I still bet that isn't enough to cover football expenses at most AAC schools.

With the TV money in the G5 you have to consider both the conference deal and the CFP money paid for by ESPN.

In 2016 the year the MAC picked up a CFP bowl they brought home a combined $32 million from ESPN or $2.7 million per school on average.

The next CFP deal could very well be double in value and so could an extension of the MAC deal. Its possible to eventually push those per school dollars into the 7 or 8 million dollar per school range that will essentially cover salaries and operating costs.

EMU I putting out there as poster child for low ticket revenue and marketing revenue. Some of the MAC is pulling in decent donations and revenue streams to go with that TV money. There is also NCAA money which MAC member you'll get a cut of and its larger than what the non-FBS conferences take in.

Good point about the CFP money. But still, add it in and i bet football is still a big money loser at most G5.

Only at the big P5 schools is football "funding the athletic department", etc.



SJ & KH 7/24/79 - 7/24/19
40 years

(07-23-2019 02:29 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  It's true. It's never a good look when a team leaves a conference. It either says that they got a better affiliation elsewhere (like a majority of realignment moves) or the team is being kicked out for non-competitiveness (ala Temple). In either case, it's a negative look that can take months, if not years, for a conference to recover from.

Cal State Bakersfield? They are leaving a conference which actually appreciates them for one that despises them. I'd hardly call it better affiliation, and they aren't being kicked out for non-competitiveness.

In UConn's case non-competitiveness is not an issue either. The Big East move can be seen as more of an emotional yearning for the good ol' days rather than leaving for a better affiliation. I personally think UConn's return is a good thing, but can also understand why others might not.

UConn was the one school that separated the AAC from C-USA on brand. It was that old school Big East basketball school that gave the AAC instant credibility as a major conference even if they didn’t do much in basketball (even though they won the NC with players they recruited in the Big East) while they wore the “A” logo on their jerseys. With UConn gone, the AAC is just C-USA 1.0 from a brand perspective. Not a bad place to be, in fact is the best basketball league outside the P6 but UConn was the “it” school that separated them from the rest.

Penny sees that, he’s not sugarcoating it and even if they bring VCU or Dayton on board, they can’t replace UConn on brand, prestige and pedigree.

(07-24-2019 09:39 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  

(07-24-2019 07:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-24-2019 06:39 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  You Never AAC’ers always come on here every day peopheyizing the end of the road for this conference. It reminds me of the 80s B movie “Hysterical”, where the character kept dropping in with the “you’re doomed” line.

I don't see anyone prophesying "the end" of the AAC. The AAC is clearly the strongest G5 conference so unless the entire G5 goes away it obviously isn't going anywhere. The OP is a good example, he doesn't predict gloom/doom for the conference, he just notes that UConn's departure is obviously a blow to the conference, which it is.

What we do get a lot of around here is boasting by AAC fanboys about how great the AAC is, how it is a P6 conference and stuff like that. E.g., some AAC fans have actually tried to argue that UConn leaving is a case of "good riddance", that the league is actually stronger without them, which is absurd.

These AAC fans are like that Knight in the Monty Python movie, whose statements about how he is going to sack the castle and take over the land become bolder and bolder even as his body parts are getting hacked off.

AAC just lost their flagship blue blood basketball program. Of course that's a huge blow. I don't think its the death of the AAC though. They can still average 3/4 bids a year pretty consistently.

The loss would have hurt a lot more if UConn had acted like a blue blood basketball program in the last 5 years. The fact the conference has done what it's done especially the last 3 years with getting 3 teams a year- but of those 3 teams- an average of 2 per year getting top 6 seeds- is helpful(considering UConn had losing seasons all 3 years). If UConn had been doing well and they had left- that's a gaping hole that would be tough to recover with. Totally think the league can continue to get at least 3 every year- with some years 4 and even 5 teams in.