(07-30-2019 02:36 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 12:54 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 12:50 PM)scoscox Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 10:42 AM)stever20 Wrote:  dude I don't hate the Big East. They're a good conference. I don't think they're on the same level right now as the ACC or Big Ten, and I think going forward with the money, that difference is just going to grow more and more. You can't be brining in only 5-6 million dollars while the Big Ten is bringing in 50 million- and keep up. AAC is in the exact same boat.

Right, but we don't have any football. Most of those millions go to football. 5-6 for just basketball is pretty good. It allows us to keep our budgets in the same range as the P5. We'll see what adding UConn does to those payouts. On top of that the Big East has a lot of natural advantages as far as proximity to recruits and MSG fwiw (and it is worth something). No other conference serves the northeast basketball market to the same extent. The Big East is in pretty good position moving forward

Even if you do the 80/20 it's still 10 million for the Big Ten for basketball. And there's only so much for football that you can do.

Also, the money advantages we're seeing in the Big Ten especially, but also SEC- have just happened in the last 2-3 years. And when the new TV deals come around, it's just going to get more for the P5.

Despite not having football, Big East programs are having no problem spending as much as the ACC, Big 12, B1G, PAC and SEC in men's basketball.

Georgetown is #3 in the country now in basketball spending. Marquette is #8, Villanova is #11 and UConn is #25. Providence, St. John's Creighton and Xavier are all in the top-50. Seton Hall just paid more to retain Willard. Butler is spending more than when they were in the A10/Horizon. For as much as the revenue disparity has grown between the P5 and the G5 in the past several years, Big East teams have been spending more - and they will likely only spend more in the future once their Fox deal/extension gets announced (likely next July 1st, when UConn officially joins).

Big East teams are spending very much like the P5 in basketball; it's because a majority of their TV revenue goes directly into men's basketball, unlike many other schools that carry the added expense of football.

so much of the expenses for basketball can be duplicated. I mean a P5 school may have a training expense that is done one time, but covers all sports- so not directly basketball related.

(07-30-2019 02:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 02:22 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 02:09 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 02:06 PM)scoscox Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 01:55 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  For the first time ever. Since it's inception the AAC has been behind the A-10 more times than it's been ahead of any of the P6.

And remember stever, you can't just pretend that those years don't exist as a wise man once said

It was just 1 year, 2015.

And you can't pretend last year didn't happen either.

Wrong again, it was twice. 2014-2015 and 2015-2016.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basket...2015-04-07

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basket...2016-04-05

Thats also not mentioning in 2016-2017 they had nearly identical conference RPI's. AAC .525 and the A-10 .523

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basket...2017-04-04

They are closer to those types of conferences than they are the P6 and it's not up for debate.

Ken Pom has the AAC ahead of them every single year except 2015.

Also if you look at the RPI(which is dead because conferences like the A10 gamed it)- avg for the 6 years- AAC .5349 A10 .5238. And last 2 years, which is fair because that's with Wichita- AAC .5424 A10 .5031. Oh, and the Pac 12 .5410.

You can massage the numbers however you like. Last year was the best year the AAC had and they have been closer to the MWC and A-10 since it's inception than to the P6. One season makes no difference and that money gap you say will consume the Big East will be even worse for the AAC since those schools need to put almost all it's meager TV money into FB.

(07-30-2019 12:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 11:37 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Stever, congrats on Georgetown landing 4* ESPN Top-100 PF Terrance Williams last night, who chose the Hoyas over Notre Dame and Michigan. You must be really excited, as it is a fun time to be a Georgetown fan.

Yeah. Ewing has frankly surprised me- thought he'd be very similar to Mullin and that disaster. But he's doing really well.... Definitely better than what JT3 became(he lasted about 5 years longer than his expiration date was).

Ewing has proven that his fame can attract better players, and that's important.

What he hasn't proven is that he can coach them into a good team once they get on campus.

(07-30-2019 02:45 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 02:36 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 12:54 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 12:50 PM)scoscox Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 10:42 AM)stever20 Wrote:  dude I don't hate the Big East. They're a good conference. I don't think they're on the same level right now as the ACC or Big Ten, and I think going forward with the money, that difference is just going to grow more and more. You can't be brining in only 5-6 million dollars while the Big Ten is bringing in 50 million- and keep up. AAC is in the exact same boat.

Right, but we don't have any football. Most of those millions go to football. 5-6 for just basketball is pretty good. It allows us to keep our budgets in the same range as the P5. We'll see what adding UConn does to those payouts. On top of that the Big East has a lot of natural advantages as far as proximity to recruits and MSG fwiw (and it is worth something). No other conference serves the northeast basketball market to the same extent. The Big East is in pretty good position moving forward

Even if you do the 80/20 it's still 10 million for the Big Ten for basketball. And there's only so much for football that you can do.

Also, the money advantages we're seeing in the Big Ten especially, but also SEC- have just happened in the last 2-3 years. And when the new TV deals come around, it's just going to get more for the P5.

Despite not having football, Big East programs are having no problem spending as much as the ACC, Big 12, B1G, PAC and SEC in men's basketball.

Georgetown is #3 in the country now in basketball spending. Marquette is #8, Villanova is #11 and UConn is #25. Providence, St. John's Creighton and Xavier are all in the top-50. Seton Hall just paid more to retain Willard. Butler is spending more than when they were in the A10/Horizon. For as much as the revenue disparity has grown between the P5 and the G5 in the past several years, Big East teams have been spending more - and they will likely only spend more in the future once their Fox deal/extension gets announced (likely next July 1st, when UConn officially joins).

Big East teams are spending very much like the P5 in basketball; it's because a majority of their TV revenue goes directly into men's basketball, unlike many other schools that carry the added expense of football.

so much of the expenses for basketball can be duplicated. I mean a P5 school may have a training expense that is done one time, but covers all sports- so not directly basketball related.

You cannot have it both ways. The Big East cannot be behind the P5 in spending (which, clearly, they are not), while spending more for an expense such as training that is for all sports (which Big East teams can do as well) when it does not have football (which would only be more of an expense for P5 programs, since it has more student-athletes and specialized training).

Just to further hit home the point that the Big East is not falling behind spending, below is the average spending on men's basketball from the P6 conferences:

Average Conference Expenses:
ACC $10,165,847
Big 12 $9,273,003
Big East $9,056,762
SEC $8,917,637
Big Ten $8,765,333
Pac-12 $7,517,500

Big East teams are, on average, spending more than teams from the Big Ten, PAC and SEC. However, just to make sure these schools are not spending money that they do not have (like UConn in the AAC), let's also take a look at revenues:

Average Conference Revenues:
ACC $15,733,337
Big Ten $15,142,875
SEC $12,715,619
Big 12 $12,048,056
Big East $10,367,209
Pac-12 $9,786,528

Nope. The Big East is also making more than what they are spending - and still within the range of the true power conferences.

And, one final point, the average AAC program spent $6,117,781 and only made $6,570,597 (way below these conferences). To note, the AAC revenues are significantly closer to the Atlantic 10 ($5,155,829) than the top six conferences.

Bottom line, while it is clear the Big East is not falling behind the spending from P5 football schools, it is evident that these programs do not need football in order to compete in their top sport (which is why they broke away in the first place). A significant amount of the revenues BE programs earn go back into the men's basketball product, and it is clearly inside the range of the perceived power conferences.

And adding UConn should add to both of those seeing as they are big spenders and should add value in multiple ways

(07-30-2019 04:58 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 02:45 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 02:36 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 12:54 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 12:50 PM)scoscox Wrote:  Right, but we don't have any football. Most of those millions go to football. 5-6 for just basketball is pretty good. It allows us to keep our budgets in the same range as the P5. We'll see what adding UConn does to those payouts. On top of that the Big East has a lot of natural advantages as far as proximity to recruits and MSG fwiw (and it is worth something). No other conference serves the northeast basketball market to the same extent. The Big East is in pretty good position moving forward

Even if you do the 80/20 it's still 10 million for the Big Ten for basketball. And there's only so much for football that you can do.

Also, the money advantages we're seeing in the Big Ten especially, but also SEC- have just happened in the last 2-3 years. And when the new TV deals come around, it's just going to get more for the P5.

Despite not having football, Big East programs are having no problem spending as much as the ACC, Big 12, B1G, PAC and SEC in men's basketball.

Georgetown is #3 in the country now in basketball spending. Marquette is #8, Villanova is #11 and UConn is #25. Providence, St. John's Creighton and Xavier are all in the top-50. Seton Hall just paid more to retain Willard. Butler is spending more than when they were in the A10/Horizon. For as much as the revenue disparity has grown between the P5 and the G5 in the past several years, Big East teams have been spending more - and they will likely only spend more in the future once their Fox deal/extension gets announced (likely next July 1st, when UConn officially joins).

Big East teams are spending very much like the P5 in basketball; it's because a majority of their TV revenue goes directly into men's basketball, unlike many other schools that carry the added expense of football.

so much of the expenses for basketball can be duplicated. I mean a P5 school may have a training expense that is done one time, but covers all sports- so not directly basketball related.

You cannot have it both ways. The Big East cannot be behind the P5 in spending (which, clearly, they are not), while spending more for an expense such as training that is for all sports (which Big East teams can do as well) when it does not have football (which would only be more of an expense for P5 programs, since it has more student-athletes and specialized training).

Just to further hit home the point that the Big East is not falling behind spending, below is the average spending on men's basketball from the P6 conferences:

Average Conference Expenses:
ACC $10,165,847
Big 12 $9,273,003
Big East $9,056,762
SEC $8,917,637
Big Ten $8,765,333
Pac-12 $7,517,500

Big East teams are, on average, spending more than teams from the Big Ten, PAC and SEC. However, just to make sure these schools are not spending money that they do not have (like UConn in the AAC), let's also take a look at revenues:

Average Conference Revenues:
ACC $15,733,337
Big Ten $15,142,875
SEC $12,715,619
Big 12 $12,048,056
Big East $10,367,209
Pac-12 $9,786,528

Nope. The Big East is also making more than what they are spending - and still within the range of the true power conferences.

And, one final point, the average AAC program spent $6,117,781 and only made $6,570,597 (way below these conferences). To note, the AAC revenues are significantly closer to the Atlantic 10 ($5,155,829) than the top six conferences.

Bottom line, while it is clear the Big East is not falling behind the spending from P5 football schools, it is evident that these programs do not need football in order to compete in their top sport (which is why they broke away in the first place). A significant amount of the revenues BE programs earn go back into the men's basketball product, and it is clearly inside the range of the perceived power conferences.

LOL you just murked Stever to the point that I don't think he can drop a "Well the thing is"

(07-31-2019 08:48 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 04:58 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 02:45 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 02:36 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(07-30-2019 12:54 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Even if you do the 80/20 it's still 10 million for the Big Ten for basketball. And there's only so much for football that you can do.

Also, the money advantages we're seeing in the Big Ten especially, but also SEC- have just happened in the last 2-3 years. And when the new TV deals come around, it's just going to get more for the P5.

Despite not having football, Big East programs are having no problem spending as much as the ACC, Big 12, B1G, PAC and SEC in men's basketball.

Georgetown is #3 in the country now in basketball spending. Marquette is #8, Villanova is #11 and UConn is #25. Providence, St. John's Creighton and Xavier are all in the top-50. Seton Hall just paid more to retain Willard. Butler is spending more than when they were in the A10/Horizon. For as much as the revenue disparity has grown between the P5 and the G5 in the past several years, Big East teams have been spending more - and they will likely only spend more in the future once their Fox deal/extension gets announced (likely next July 1st, when UConn officially joins).

Big East teams are spending very much like the P5 in basketball; it's because a majority of their TV revenue goes directly into men's basketball, unlike many other schools that carry the added expense of football.

so much of the expenses for basketball can be duplicated. I mean a P5 school may have a training expense that is done one time, but covers all sports- so not directly basketball related.

You cannot have it both ways. The Big East cannot be behind the P5 in spending (which, clearly, they are not), while spending more for an expense such as training that is for all sports (which Big East teams can do as well) when it does not have football (which would only be more of an expense for P5 programs, since it has more student-athletes and specialized training).

Just to further hit home the point that the Big East is not falling behind spending, below is the average spending on men's basketball from the P6 conferences:

Average Conference Expenses:
ACC $10,165,847
Big 12 $9,273,003
Big East $9,056,762
SEC $8,917,637
Big Ten $8,765,333
Pac-12 $7,517,500

Big East teams are, on average, spending more than teams from the Big Ten, PAC and SEC. However, just to make sure these schools are not spending money that they do not have (like UConn in the AAC), let's also take a look at revenues:

Average Conference Revenues:
ACC $15,733,337
Big Ten $15,142,875
SEC $12,715,619
Big 12 $12,048,056
Big East $10,367,209
Pac-12 $9,786,528

Nope. The Big East is also making more than what they are spending - and still within the range of the true power conferences.

And, one final point, the average AAC program spent $6,117,781 and only made $6,570,597 (way below these conferences). To note, the AAC revenues are significantly closer to the Atlantic 10 ($5,155,829) than the top six conferences.

Bottom line, while it is clear the Big East is not falling behind the spending from P5 football schools, it is evident that these programs do not need football in order to compete in their top sport (which is why they broke away in the first place). A significant amount of the revenues BE programs earn go back into the men's basketball product, and it is clearly inside the range of the perceived power conferences.

LOL you just murked Stever to the point that I don't think he can drop a "Well the thing is"

Adding in UConn's men's basketball expenses/revenues, the Big East average expenses rise to $9,103,935 and the revenues rise to $10,678,978. While those do not change the positioning, it brings it much closer to the #2 conference in expenses (Big 12), and move the revenues further away from the #6 conference (PAC).

The bigger difference is what happens when you take away UConn men's basketball expenses and revenues from the AAC pool; their average expenses drop down to $5,803,428 and their average revenues drop to $5,913,681. That would put their figures closer (on both spending and revenue, in averages) to the Atlantic-10 (Average Program Expenses - $4,355,871, Average Program Revenues - $5,155,829) and West Coast Conference (Average Program Expenses - $4,354,816, Average Program Revenues - $4,879,238) than it would be to the PAC (Average Program Expenses - $7,517,500, Average Program Revenues - $9,786,528).

using expenses for basketball only can be deceiving as for the other conferences, they can spend money for everything and not claim it on just basketball...... Also it gets into the accounting, which isn't always exactly on the up and up quite frankly!

Also- the numbers show the profit from basketball in the Big East is substansially less than any of the other conferences. profit and % of it from the top 6 conferences-
Big Ten 6,377,542 28.86%
ACC 5,567,490 25.20%
SEC 3,797,982 17.19%
Big 12 2,775,053 12.56%
Pac 12 2,269,028 10.27%
Big East 1,310,447 5.93%

as you can see the Big East lags far behind the other conferences. The only conference where they make better than half the profit is the Pac 12, hardly the best... It's almost 3 times behind the SEC, and it's over 4 times with the ACC and almost 5 times behind the Big Ten.

(07-31-2019 09:18 AM)stever20 Wrote:  using expenses for basketball only can be deceiving as for the other conferences, they can spend money for everything and not claim it on just basketball...... Also it gets into the accounting, which isn't always exactly on the up and up quite frankly!

Well, then it appears that the Big East then utilizes the same accountants as the other power conferences then, and utilize the same "deceptions" - since they in the same range.

(07-31-2019 09:18 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Also- the numbers show the profit from basketball in the Big East is substansially less than any of the other conferences. profit and % of it from the top 6 conferences-
Big Ten 6,377,542 28.86%
ACC 5,567,490 25.20%
SEC 3,797,982 17.19%
Big 12 2,775,053 12.56%
Pac 12 2,269,028 10.27%
Big East 1,310,447 5.93%

as you can see the Big East lags far behind the other conferences. The only conference where they make better than half the profit is the Pac 12, hardly the best... It's almost 3 times behind the SEC, and it's over 4 times with the ACC and almost 5 times behind the Big Ten.

Not surprised at all. Georgetown, Villanova, Providence, St. John's, Creighton, Seton Hall and DePaul all account for spending the same revenues as expenses (which is common for many, but not all, Private and/or Catholic schools - i.e WCC, MAAC, Catholic A10 programs, etc.). The fact that the Big East has a significant accounted positive revenue at all (thanks to Marquette and Xavier, mostly) speaks volumes (when two programs essentially account for that 6%, which is very unlikely to be 100% accurate, for sure).

Regardless, back to your original point that the Big East was/is being outspent by the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, PAC and SEC - you were/are incorrect. The accounting reports directly show that the Big East is spending within the same range as the power conferences.

I'd be shocked if Creighton wasn't making significant profits with the kind of support they have