(07-16-2019 07:53 AM)zoocrew Wrote:  Putting aside whether you think realignment actually happens or if you’d realistically get an invite. UConn fans, or anyone else who wants to comment, if 2025 comes around and the Big 12 offered you an invite to join this league as constituted below would you leave the nBE for it?

-Starting in 2025 each school in this conference receives $20 million per year, which will be exactly half the 4th highest paid conference makes.

-Contract bowl is the NY6 Peach Bowl but it’s vs the G5 champ.

-In ESPN’s interest to continue the P5 moniker. AAC drops back to making $1 mil a year with the lost schools so clear separation.

TCU
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Houston
BYU

West Virginia
UCF
USF
Memphis
Cincinnati
Temple
UConn

I could see an argument for joining this conference and also for staying in the nBE.

Travel is still going to be a biatch and some of the same problems the AAC are going to remain. However for basketball this league is going to be a monster with a blueblood in Kansas, a bunch of historically and current good teams and no surefire yearly deadweights.

No way is that conference going to be P5 with an NY6 autobid (where there is also a G5 NY6 slot). In today's market, they would be very lucky to get $15 million per school from a media contract. In that scenario, the loss of Oklahoma, OK State, Texas and Texas Tech leaves the remnants of the Big 12 as the clear frontrunner among the G6 to get the G-spot in the NY6.

(07-16-2019 07:53 AM)zoocrew Wrote:  TCU
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Houston
BYU fb only / Wichita State Olympics

West Virginia
UCF
USF
Memphis
Cincinnati
Temple
UConn Navy fb only / VCU Olympics

I like this proposal better.

(07-16-2019 12:57 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(07-16-2019 12:13 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(07-16-2019 11:12 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(07-16-2019 10:43 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  From UConn's point of view, compared to the current AAC:

TCU for SMU - even (remember, basketball counts more than football for UConn)
Baylor for Tulane - even
Kansas State for Tulsa - even
Iowa State for ECU - slightly better
BYU for Navy/Wichita - much worse (Navy is Northeastern)
Adds West Virginia and Kansas as 13 & 14- much better

Viewed another way:
West Virginia for Wichita State/Navy - even
Kansas for Tulsa - much better
Iowa State for ECU - slightly better
TCU for SMU - even
Baylor for Tulane - even
Adds Kansas State & BYU as 13 & 14 - worse - they're really far away and not good enough to draw eyeballs in New England


The money would be a little better, I'd guess $11-$13 million.

So on the whole, this is slightly more attractive to UConn than the AAC. But UConn clearly likes the Big East a lot more than the AAC (otherwise they wouldn't pay $10 million to go there).

You don't make a move for a mere $5-10 million extra in an $80 million budget, especially when it will cost you millions in exit fees make the move.

If basketball matters more to UConn than football (which I wholeheartedly agree), then how in the world are Tulane and Tulsa even, in any metric, to Baylor and Kansas State? Baylor and Kansas State have much greater fan support, resources and on-field success in football than either Tulane or Tulsa. In basketball, it isn't even close.

TCU also spends twice as much on men's basketball than SMU does (https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/6/1...-mid-major. In football, that isn't even a comparison either (TCU clearly has the nod).

Historically TCU has been the worst P5 basketball program. Before 2010, Baylor and Northwestern shared that title. Yes, Tulsa and SMU have traditionally been better basketball programs than either Baylor or TCU.

Tulane has been worse than TCU/Baylor but at least it's got elite academics and is in New Orleans.

Since 1982, both Kansas State and Tulsa have been to the NCAA tournament 15 times and been to 3 Sweet 16s. KSU is better. But to a school like UConn, which is in the Northeast and is surrounded by pro sports, the difference between Kansas State and Tulsa is miniscule.

SMU good in basketball?

They were good for 3 or 4 seasons under Larry Brown but make no mistake, it’s always been a bad basketball program.....worse than TCU. . Baylor? It’s head and shoulders over SMU.

I didn't say good. I said better.

Baylor has had a great run since 2010. But before that they were atrocious. Even after this great 9 year run, they stiil have an all-time losing record.

2018-2019 average attendance
SMU - 6,631 (and SMU didn't play Kansas or Texas or Oklahoma at home)
TCU - 6,561
Baylor - 6,331

SMU, Baylor, and TCU were in the same conference for most of their history.

SMU is 67-37 all-time against Baylor.

SMU is 63-64 all-time against TCU.


Power football schools lowest all-time winning %:

.417 - Northwestern
.466 - TCU
.496 - Baylor
.500 - Ole Miss
.505 - Clemson
.506 - Rutgers
.509 - Iowa State
.511 - Washington State
.520 - Georgia
.521 - Colorado
.524 - SMU (in the SWC for most of its history)

(07-16-2019 01:56 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(07-16-2019 07:53 AM)zoocrew Wrote:  Putting aside whether you think realignment actually happens or if you’d realistically get an invite. UConn fans, or anyone else who wants to comment, if 2025 comes around and the Big 12 offered you an invite to join this league as constituted below would you leave the nBE for it?

-Starting in 2025 each school in this conference receives $20 million per year, which will be exactly half the 4th highest paid conference makes.

-Contract bowl is the NY6 Peach Bowl but it’s vs the G5 champ.

-In ESPN’s interest to continue the P5 moniker. AAC drops back to making $1 mil a year with the lost schools so clear separation.

TCU
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Houston
BYU

West Virginia
UCF
USF
Memphis
Cincinnati
Temple
UConn

I could see an argument for joining this conference and also for staying in the nBE.

Travel is still going to be a biatch and some of the same problems the AAC are going to remain. However for basketball this league is going to be a monster with a blueblood in Kansas, a bunch of historically and current good teams and no surefire yearly deadweights.

No way is that conference going to be P5 with an NY6 autobid (where there is also a G5 NY6 slot). In today's market, they would be very lucky to get $15 million per school from a media contract. In that scenario, the loss of Oklahoma, OK State, Texas and Texas Tech leaves the remnants of the Big 12 as the clear frontrunner among the G6 to get the G-spot in the NY6.

Highly doubt the Big 12 is thought of as anything other than a P5 if it’s those 14 teams as listed. The league would be considered better than the PAC in football unless it turns around and could be the TOP basketball league in the country every so often. Maybe tweener gets thrown around but that’d likely be in reference to the semi odd mix of programs or a lower payout than the other 4 conferences. Hell, it’d be a much better conference than the Big East was not to mention the recruiting areas.

10/14 teams listed would have been in a “power” conference before. UCF, Houston(SWC), Memphis, BYU haven’t but are the cream of the crop brands in football or basketball in the G5 at this point. Everyone knows the Big 12 brand...as a power conference. Not saying people would confuse them with the B1G but this wouldn’t be an AAC “were P6” situation.

If Utah and Louisville can get people to see them as part of the group I have no doubt this conference would be just fine.

(07-17-2019 04:17 PM)zoocrew Wrote:  

(07-16-2019 01:56 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(07-16-2019 07:53 AM)zoocrew Wrote:  Putting aside whether you think realignment actually happens or if you’d realistically get an invite. UConn fans, or anyone else who wants to comment, if 2025 comes around and the Big 12 offered you an invite to join this league as constituted below would you leave the nBE for it?

-Starting in 2025 each school in this conference receives $20 million per year, which will be exactly half the 4th highest paid conference makes.

-Contract bowl is the NY6 Peach Bowl but it’s vs the G5 champ.

-In ESPN’s interest to continue the P5 moniker. AAC drops back to making $1 mil a year with the lost schools so clear separation.

TCU
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Houston
BYU

West Virginia
UCF
USF
Memphis
Cincinnati
Temple
UConn

I could see an argument for joining this conference and also for staying in the nBE.

Travel is still going to be a biatch and some of the same problems the AAC are going to remain. However for basketball this league is going to be a monster with a blueblood in Kansas, a bunch of historically and current good teams and no surefire yearly deadweights.

No way is that conference going to be P5 with an NY6 autobid (where there is also a G5 NY6 slot). In today's market, they would be very lucky to get $15 million per school from a media contract. In that scenario, the loss of Oklahoma, OK State, Texas and Texas Tech leaves the remnants of the Big 12 as the clear frontrunner among the G6 to get the G-spot in the NY6.

Highly doubt the Big 12 is thought of as anything other than a P5 if it’s those 14 teams as listed. The league would be considered better than the PAC in football unless it turns around and could be the TOP basketball league in the country every so often. Maybe tweener gets thrown around but that’d likely be in reference to the semi odd mix of programs or a lower payout than the other 4 conferences. Hell, it’d be a much better conference than the Big East was not to mention the recruiting areas.

10/14 teams listed would have been in a “power” conference before. UCF, Houston(SWC), Memphis, BYU haven’t but are the cream of the crop brands in football or basketball in the G5 at this point. Everyone knows the Big 12 brand...as a power conference. Not saying people would confuse them with the B1G but this wouldn’t be an AAC “were P6” situation.

If Utah and Louisville can get people to see them as part of the group I have no doubt this conference would be just fine.

Just being strong doesn't make you a P5 conference. Without marquee draws at the top, like UT and OU, this is just a very powerful G6 conference. A P5 conference must have one or more "tentpoles" propping them up. UT is a tentpole, but TCU isn't, no matter if the Frogs are the stronger team.

Would that conference get a significantly better media contract than the rest of the G6? Absolutely. But they are still a "tweener" between the Ps and the Gs.

(07-17-2019 04:34 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(07-17-2019 04:17 PM)zoocrew Wrote:  

(07-16-2019 01:56 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(07-16-2019 07:53 AM)zoocrew Wrote:  Putting aside whether you think realignment actually happens or if you’d realistically get an invite. UConn fans, or anyone else who wants to comment, if 2025 comes around and the Big 12 offered you an invite to join this league as constituted below would you leave the nBE for it?

-Starting in 2025 each school in this conference receives $20 million per year, which will be exactly half the 4th highest paid conference makes.

-Contract bowl is the NY6 Peach Bowl but it’s vs the G5 champ.

-In ESPN’s interest to continue the P5 moniker. AAC drops back to making $1 mil a year with the lost schools so clear separation.

TCU
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Houston
BYU

West Virginia
UCF
USF
Memphis
Cincinnati
Temple
UConn

I could see an argument for joining this conference and also for staying in the nBE.

Travel is still going to be a biatch and some of the same problems the AAC are going to remain. However for basketball this league is going to be a monster with a blueblood in Kansas, a bunch of historically and current good teams and no surefire yearly deadweights.

No way is that conference going to be P5 with an NY6 autobid (where there is also a G5 NY6 slot). In today's market, they would be very lucky to get $15 million per school from a media contract. In that scenario, the loss of Oklahoma, OK State, Texas and Texas Tech leaves the remnants of the Big 12 as the clear frontrunner among the G6 to get the G-spot in the NY6.

Highly doubt the Big 12 is thought of as anything other than a P5 if it’s those 14 teams as listed. The league would be considered better than the PAC in football unless it turns around and could be the TOP basketball league in the country every so often. Maybe tweener gets thrown around but that’d likely be in reference to the semi odd mix of programs or a lower payout than the other 4 conferences. Hell, it’d be a much better conference than the Big East was not to mention the recruiting areas.

10/14 teams listed would have been in a “power” conference before. UCF, Houston(SWC), Memphis, BYU haven’t but are the cream of the crop brands in football or basketball in the G5 at this point. Everyone knows the Big 12 brand...as a power conference. Not saying people would confuse them with the B1G but this wouldn’t be an AAC “were P6” situation.

If Utah and Louisville can get people to see them as part of the group I have no doubt this conference would be just fine.

Just being strong doesn't make you a P5 conference. Without marquee draws at the top, like UT and OU, this is just a very powerful G6 conference. A P5 conference must have one or more "tentpoles" propping them up. UT is a tentpole, but TCU isn't, no matter if the Frogs are the stronger team.

Would that conference get a significantly better media contract than the rest of the G6? Absolutely. But they are still a "tweener" between the Ps and the Gs.

Yeah not buying it sorry. They’d be P5.

(07-17-2019 04:34 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(07-17-2019 04:17 PM)zoocrew Wrote:  

(07-16-2019 01:56 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(07-16-2019 07:53 AM)zoocrew Wrote:  Putting aside whether you think realignment actually happens or if you’d realistically get an invite. UConn fans, or anyone else who wants to comment, if 2025 comes around and the Big 12 offered you an invite to join this league as constituted below would you leave the nBE for it?

-Starting in 2025 each school in this conference receives $20 million per year, which will be exactly half the 4th highest paid conference makes.

-Contract bowl is the NY6 Peach Bowl but it’s vs the G5 champ.

-In ESPN’s interest to continue the P5 moniker. AAC drops back to making $1 mil a year with the lost schools so clear separation.

TCU
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Houston
BYU

West Virginia
UCF
USF
Memphis
Cincinnati
Temple
UConn

I could see an argument for joining this conference and also for staying in the nBE.

Travel is still going to be a biatch and some of the same problems the AAC are going to remain. However for basketball this league is going to be a monster with a blueblood in Kansas, a bunch of historically and current good teams and no surefire yearly deadweights.

No way is that conference going to be P5 with an NY6 autobid (where there is also a G5 NY6 slot). In today's market, they would be very lucky to get $15 million per school from a media contract. In that scenario, the loss of Oklahoma, OK State, Texas and Texas Tech leaves the remnants of the Big 12 as the clear frontrunner among the G6 to get the G-spot in the NY6.

Highly doubt the Big 12 is thought of as anything other than a P5 if it’s those 14 teams as listed. The league would be considered better than the PAC in football unless it turns around and could be the TOP basketball league in the country every so often. Maybe tweener gets thrown around but that’d likely be in reference to the semi odd mix of programs or a lower payout than the other 4 conferences. Hell, it’d be a much better conference than the Big East was not to mention the recruiting areas.

10/14 teams listed would have been in a “power” conference before. UCF, Houston(SWC), Memphis, BYU haven’t but are the cream of the crop brands in football or basketball in the G5 at this point. Everyone knows the Big 12 brand...as a power conference. Not saying people would confuse them with the B1G but this wouldn’t be an AAC “were P6” situation.

If Utah and Louisville can get people to see them as part of the group I have no doubt this conference would be just fine.

Just being strong doesn't make you a P5 conference. Without marquee draws at the top, like UT and OU, this is just a very powerful G6 conference. A P5 conference must have one or more "tentpoles" propping them up. UT is a tentpole, but TCU isn't, no matter if the Frogs are the stronger team.

Would that conference get a significantly better media contract than the rest of the G6? Absolutely. But they are still a "tweener" between the Ps and the Gs.

That's the same problem the 2005-2011 Big East faced. On the field, it was definitely equal to the other power conferences. Every analysis has shown this.

But without a blue-blood at the top that draws millions of eyeballs to the TV based on brand name alone, it's not viewed as a power conference.

I think Boise actually has the potential to be that marquee name, much like Miami was in the 1990s Big East. That win against Oklahoma made America love them. But Boise is a high-risk addition: Boise's remote location and poor academics mean that if they stop winning they'll fade into obscurity much faster than Miami did.

(07-16-2019 07:53 AM)zoocrew Wrote:  Putting aside whether you think realignment actually happens or if you’d realistically get an invite. UConn fans, or anyone else who wants to comment, if 2025 comes around and the Big 12 offered you an invite to join this league as constituted below would you leave the nBE for it?

-Starting in 2025 each school in this conference receives $20 million per year, which will be exactly half the 4th highest paid conference makes.

-Contract bowl is the NY6 Peach Bowl but it’s vs the G5 champ.

-In ESPN’s interest to continue the P5 moniker. AAC drops back to making $1 mil a year with the lost schools so clear separation.

TCU
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Houston
BYU

West Virginia
UCF
USF
Memphis
Cincinnati
Temple
UConn

I could see an argument for joining this conference and also for staying in the nBE.

Travel is still going to be a biatch and some of the same problems the AAC are going to remain. However for basketball this league is going to be a monster with a blueblood in Kansas, a bunch of historically and current good teams and no surefire yearly deadweights.

Won't happen for UConn. By 2025 their FB will be in FCS if not eliminated all together.

(07-18-2019 05:01 AM)panite Wrote:  

(07-16-2019 07:53 AM)zoocrew Wrote:  Putting aside whether you think realignment actually happens or if you’d realistically get an invite. UConn fans, or anyone else who wants to comment, if 2025 comes around and the Big 12 offered you an invite to join this league as constituted below would you leave the nBE for it?

-Starting in 2025 each school in this conference receives $20 million per year, which will be exactly half the 4th highest paid conference makes.

-Contract bowl is the NY6 Peach Bowl but it’s vs the G5 champ.

-In ESPN’s interest to continue the P5 moniker. AAC drops back to making $1 mil a year with the lost schools so clear separation.

TCU
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Houston
BYU

West Virginia
UCF
USF
Memphis
Cincinnati
Temple
UConn

I could see an argument for joining this conference and also for staying in the nBE.

Travel is still going to be a biatch and some of the same problems the AAC are going to remain. However for basketball this league is going to be a monster with a blueblood in Kansas, a bunch of historically and current good teams and no surefire yearly deadweights.

Won't happen for UConn. By 2025 their FB will be in FCS if not eliminated all together.

Tend to agree. Just a hypothetical. Doubt Kansas is left behind either.

I’d still guess 5 teams remain in the Big 12 and they fill by adding the 6 Big AAC metro publics (UCF, USF, Houston, Cincy, Temple, Memphis) plus BYU to get back to 12 or maybe add 2 more MWC’s for 14.