As an Indy, what is there access? I can’t find info.

(07-15-2019 12:07 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  As an Indy, what is there access? I can’t find info.

They basically have zero chance. They could make the playoff if they go undefeated and are voted in but the guaranteed NY6 spot goes to the highest ranked non-P5 conference champion. Most years that will be the AAC champion. Since BYU isn’t in a conference they are not eligible for this spot.

An Indy has to finish high enough in the CFP Committee rankings to either make the playoff or land a “at large” slot in a CFP bowl. Realistically, you probably have to be in the top 10 to have a shot at an at large CFP Bowl—pehaps higher (say #8-ish) depending on the year and slots available.

(07-15-2019 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  An Indy has to finish high enough in the CFP Committee rankings to either make the playoff or land a “at large” slot in a CFP bowl. Realistically, you probably have to be in the top 10 to have a shot at an at large CFP Bowl—pehaps higher (say #8-ish) depending on the year and slots available.

Accept ND, correct? I can’t find an article that confirms as such.

(07-15-2019 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  An Indy has to finish high enough in the CFP Committee rankings to either make the playoff or land a “at large” slot in a CFP bowl. Realistically, you probably have to be in the top 10 to have a shot at an at large CFP Bowl—pehaps higher (say #8-ish) depending on the year and slots available.

In 2019 and 2022, there is one at-large spot (Cotton). The at-large plays the G5 rep. BYU would have to be ranked 5th (maybe 6th) to qualify in these years.

In 2021 and 2024, there are three at-large spots (Peach & Fiesta), and one of those at-large teams plays the G5 rep. So BYU has a better chance. Probably needs to be Top 7 or 8.

And in 2020 and 2023, there are five at-large spots (Cotton, Peach & Fiesta), and one of those five plays the G5 rep. BYU has the "best" chance in these years. Probably needs to be Top 10.

The current playoff deal expires after the 2024 season, and everything is up for grabs.

Bear in mind, to get an at-large the committee would have to rank BYU higher than the 2nd best schools from P5 conferences who are vying for those at-large bids. We all know the P5 bias in these rankings....

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(07-15-2019 12:25 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  An Indy has to finish high enough in the CFP Committee rankings to either make the playoff or land a “at large” slot in a CFP bowl. Realistically, you probably have to be in the top 10 to have a shot at an at large CFP Bowl—pehaps higher (say #8-ish) depending on the year and slots available.

In 2019 and 2022, there is one at-large spot (Cotton) and it goes to the G5 rep. BYU is frozen out in those years unless it is Top 4 and makes the playoffs.

In 2021 and 2024, there are two at-large spots (Peach & Fiesta), and one goes to the G5 rep. So BYU has a chance.

And in 2020 and 2023, there are three at-large spots (Cotton, Peach & Fiesta), and one goes to the G5 rep. BYU has the "best" chance in these years.

The current playoff deal expires after the 2024 season, and everything is up for grabs.

Bear in mind, to get an at-large the committee would have to rank BYU higher than the 2nd best schools from P5 conferences who are vying for those at-large bids. So probably 5th to 7th.

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Excuse my ignorance, but why is there a varying number of at-large spots per year?

(07-15-2019 12:32 PM)Billy Bob Bearcat Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 12:25 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  An Indy has to finish high enough in the CFP Committee rankings to either make the playoff or land a “at large” slot in a CFP bowl. Realistically, you probably have to be in the top 10 to have a shot at an at large CFP Bowl—pehaps higher (say #8-ish) depending on the year and slots available.

In 2019 and 2022, there is one at-large spot (Cotton) and it goes to the G5 rep. BYU is frozen out in those years unless it is Top 4 and makes the playoffs.

In 2021 and 2024, there are two at-large spots (Peach & Fiesta), and one goes to the G5 rep. So BYU has a chance.

And in 2020 and 2023, there are three at-large spots (Cotton, Peach & Fiesta), and one goes to the G5 rep. BYU has the "best" chance in these years.

The current playoff deal expires after the 2024 season, and everything is up for grabs.

Bear in mind, to get an at-large the committee would have to rank BYU higher than the 2nd best schools from P5 conferences who are vying for those at-large bids. So probably 5th to 7th.

.

Excuse my ignorance, but why is there a varying number of at-large spots per year?

Right. A link would help.

(07-15-2019 12:32 PM)Billy Bob Bearcat Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 12:25 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  An Indy has to finish high enough in the CFP Committee rankings to either make the playoff or land a “at large” slot in a CFP bowl. Realistically, you probably have to be in the top 10 to have a shot at an at large CFP Bowl—pehaps higher (say #8-ish) depending on the year and slots available.

In 2019 and 2022, there is one at-large spot (Cotton) and it goes to the G5 rep. BYU is frozen out in those years unless it is Top 4 and makes the playoffs.

In 2021 and 2024, there are two at-large spots (Peach & Fiesta), and one goes to the G5 rep. So BYU has a chance.

And in 2020 and 2023, there are three at-large spots (Cotton, Peach & Fiesta), and one goes to the G5 rep. BYU has the "best" chance in these years.

The current playoff deal expires after the 2024 season, and everything is up for grabs.

Bear in mind, to get an at-large the committee would have to rank BYU higher than the 2nd best schools from P5 conferences who are vying for those at-large bids. So probably 5th to 7th.

.

Excuse my ignorance, but why is there a varying number of at-large spots per year?

Because of the contracts with the P5 conferences and the Rose, Sugar, and Orange Bowls. It depends on which NY6 bowls host the CFP semifinals. The Rose, Sugar, and Orange bowls only ever host P5 teams or the CFP playoffs.

In 2019 and 2022, the Fiesta and Peach Bowls host the CFP semifinals, so they are not available for any at large teams. Rose, Sugar, and Orange host to P5 teams and the Cotton Bowl hosts the G5 rep and a single at large participant.

In 2021 and 2024, the Cotton and Orange Bowls host the CFP semifinals, so the only landing spots for at large teams are the Peach & Fiesta - but one of those goes to the G5 rep - so, 3 at large spots available.

In 2020 and 2023, the Rose and Sugar Bowls host the CFP semifinals, so the at-large teams can play in the Cotton, Peach & Fiesta bowls - but one of those spots goes to the G5 rep. - so, 5 at large spots available.

https://collegefootballplayoff.com/sport...rview.aspx

"Participants in the New Year’s Bowls
Both participants in the Orange, Rose and Sugar Bowls are contracted outside the playoff arrange­ment (Big Ten and Pac-12 to Rose Bowl; SEC and Big 12 to Sugar Bowl; ACC to Orange Bowl against the highest ranked available team from the SEC, Big Ten and Notre Dame). If a conference champion qualifies for the playoff, then the bowl will choose a replacement from that conference. When those bowls host the semifinals and their contracted conference champions do not qualify, then the displaced champion(s) will play in one of the other New Year’s bowls.

When not hosting semifinals, the Cotton, Fiesta and Peach Bowls will welcome displaced conference champions and the top-ranked champion from a non-contract conference. The highest-ranked available teams will fill any other berths. The selection committee will make the pairings."

https://collegefootballplayoff.com/sport...edule.aspx

(07-15-2019 12:32 PM)Billy Bob Bearcat Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 12:25 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  An Indy has to finish high enough in the CFP Committee rankings to either make the playoff or land a “at large” slot in a CFP bowl. Realistically, you probably have to be in the top 10 to have a shot at an at large CFP Bowl—pehaps higher (say #8-ish) depending on the year and slots available.

In 2019 and 2022, there is one at-large spot (Cotton) and it goes to the G5 rep. BYU is frozen out in those years unless it is Top 4 and makes the playoffs.

In 2021 and 2024, there are two at-large spots (Peach & Fiesta), and one goes to the G5 rep. So BYU has a chance.

And in 2020 and 2023, there are three at-large spots (Cotton, Peach & Fiesta), and one goes to the G5 rep. BYU has the "best" chance in these years.

The current playoff deal expires after the 2024 season, and everything is up for grabs.

Bear in mind, to get an at-large the committee would have to rank BYU higher than the 2nd best schools from P5 conferences who are vying for those at-large bids. So probably 5th to 7th.

.

Excuse my ignorance, but why is there a varying number of at-large spots per year?

Note I edited my post. What you quoted me saying is incorrect.

1, 3 or 5 at large spots available in a year, depending on how many contract vs. access bowls are designated as semifinal games...

(07-15-2019 12:12 PM)First Mate Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 12:07 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  As an Indy, what is there access? I can’t find info.

They basically have zero chance. They could make the playoff if they go undefeated and are voted in but the guaranteed NY6 spot goes to the highest ranked non-P5 conference champion. Most years that will be the AAC champion. Since BYU isn’t in a conference they are not eligible for this spot.

And this is the single biggest reason they should consider the AAC. After a loss to any P5 on their schedule they are essentially eliminated from anything but the Hawaii Bowl or the Potato Bowl. They are essentially irrelevant in college football as it now stands. They may as well be UMASS.

(07-15-2019 12:22 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  An Indy has to finish high enough in the CFP Committee rankings to either make the playoff or land a “at large” slot in a CFP bowl. Realistically, you probably have to be in the top 10 to have a shot at an at large CFP Bowl—pehaps higher (say #8-ish) depending on the year and slots available.

Accept ND, correct? I can’t find an article that confirms as such.

Notre Dame has a contract where they can be matched up against the ACC representative in the Orange Bowl up to 2 times between now and 2025.

https://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-b...story.html

USFFan

(07-15-2019 12:22 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  An Indy has to finish high enough in the CFP Committee rankings to either make the playoff or land a “at large” slot in a CFP bowl. Realistically, you probably have to be in the top 10 to have a shot at an at large CFP Bowl—pehaps higher (say #8-ish) depending on the year and slots available.

Accept ND, correct? I can’t find an article that confirms as such.

Notre Dame has a contract tie to the Orange Bowl for no more than 2 appearances during the cycle---but they only qualify for the game if they attain a certain win total and/or ranking---but I honestly dont remember the exact details.

(07-15-2019 02:41 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 12:22 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  An Indy has to finish high enough in the CFP Committee rankings to either make the playoff or land a “at large” slot in a CFP bowl. Realistically, you probably have to be in the top 10 to have a shot at an at large CFP Bowl—pehaps higher (say #8-ish) depending on the year and slots available.

Accept ND, correct? I can’t find an article that confirms as such.

Notre Dame has a contact tie to the Orange Bowl for no more than 2 appearances during the cycle---but they only qualify for the game if they attain a certain win total and/or ranking---but I honestly dont remember the exact details.

I don't know about the no-more-than part; that sounds like pre-CFP language for ND taking ACC's spot.

The Orange Bowl is one of the three contract bowls in the CFP.
When the respective bowl games do not host a CFP semifinal, the Rose Bowl is contracted to the Big10 champ and Pac12 champ, the Sugar Bowl is contracted to the SEC champ and the BigXII champ, and the Orange Bowl is contracted to matchup the ACC champ vs the highest-CFP-ranked among ND, remaining SEC, and remaining Big10.
When one of the three contract bowl games hosts a semifinal, the contracted champ(s) not in the CFP semifinal get one of the at large spots in Cotton, Peach, Fiesta. For the Orange Bowl specifically, when the OB hosts a semifinal, ACC champ if not in it gets an at large, but the other side of that matchup is just in the mix for remaining at-large spots.
When one of the three contract bowls is not a semifinal host, but the contracted conference champ is in the semifinals, the bowl replaces the contracted conference champion with the next highest-CFP-ranked team from that conference.

To look at it from ND perspective rather than the bowl, they are in CFP semifinal if they are top 4. If the OB is not a semifinal, and ND is ranked higher than the highest remaining SEC AND Big10 teams, they are in the Orange Bowl. They can take one of the at-large spots in Cotton Fiesta Peach if ranked high enough - as noted above top 10-ish for an at large, depending.

And BYU/Army/UMass/NMSU/Liberty can get a CFP semifinal with a top-4 ranking or an at large NY6 with a top-10-ish ranking.

Readers Digest version: Join the AAC already BYU, if you want to remain competitively relevant.

(07-19-2019 10:06 AM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 02:41 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 12:22 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  An Indy has to finish high enough in the CFP Committee rankings to either make the playoff or land a “at large” slot in a CFP bowl. Realistically, you probably have to be in the top 10 to have a shot at an at large CFP Bowl—pehaps higher (say #8-ish) depending on the year and slots available.

Accept ND, correct? I can’t find an article that confirms as such.

Notre Dame has a contact tie to the Orange Bowl for no more than 2 appearances during the cycle---but they only qualify for the game if they attain a certain win total and/or ranking---but I honestly dont remember the exact details.

I don't know about the no-more-than part; that sounds like pre-CFP language for ND taking ACC's spot.

The Orange Bowl is one of the three contract bowls in the CFP.
When the respective bowl games do not host a CFP semifinal, the Rose Bowl is contracted to the Big10 champ and Pac12 champ, the Sugar Bowl is contracted to the SEC champ and the BigXII champ, and the Orange Bowl is contracted to matchup the ACC champ vs the highest-CFP-ranked among ND, remaining SEC, and remaining Big10.
When one of the three contract bowl games hosts a semifinal, the contracted champ(s) not in the CFP semifinal get one of the at large spots in Cotton, Peach, Fiesta. For the Orange Bowl specifically, when the OB hosts a semifinal, ACC champ if not in it gets an at large, but the other side of that matchup is just in the mix for remaining at-large spots.
When one of the three contract bowls is not a semifinal host, but the contracted conference champ is in the semifinals, the bowl replaces the contracted conference champion with the next highest-CFP-ranked team from that conference.

To look at it from ND perspective rather than the bowl, they are in CFP semifinal if they are top 4. If the OB is not a semifinal, and ND is ranked higher than the highest remaining SEC AND Big10 teams, they are in the Orange Bowl. They can take one of the at-large spots in Cotton Fiesta Peach if ranked high enough - as noted above top 10-ish for an at large, depending.

And BYU/Army/UMass/NMSU/Liberty can get a CFP semifinal with a top-4 ranking or an at large NY6 with a top-10-ish ranking.

Well ND has a limit but not a guarentee, they can only take the Orange Bowl spot twice in a six year period (really four I guess since the Orange will be a semi twice right?). They only get the autobid if they are the highest ranked team and the match up does not cause a regular season rematch (Orange has the option to passover a rematch to select the next highest team). This is how ND gets it's own vote, the two year tie in.

Quote:The ACC team's opponent in a given year will be the highest-ranked available team from the SEC, Big Ten, and Notre Dame, subject to several constraints: the SEC and Big Ten champions are always excluded, and when an SEC and/or Big Ten team qualifies for the College Football Playoff, the next available team would also be excluded from participating in the Orange Bowl due to contractual obligations with the Sugar Bowl and Rose Bowl, respectively. Also, should a highest-ranked team create a rematch with the ACC team, the Orange Bowl has the option of passing over that team for the next-highest ranked team among the Big Ten, SEC, and Notre Dame, again subject to the noted constraints. Rankings are based on the College Football Playoff committee's rankings.

(07-19-2019 11:51 AM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(07-19-2019 10:06 AM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 02:41 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 12:22 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  An Indy has to finish high enough in the CFP Committee rankings to either make the playoff or land a “at large” slot in a CFP bowl. Realistically, you probably have to be in the top 10 to have a shot at an at large CFP Bowl—pehaps higher (say #8-ish) depending on the year and slots available.

Accept ND, correct? I can’t find an article that confirms as such.

Notre Dame has a contact tie to the Orange Bowl for no more than 2 appearances during the cycle---but they only qualify for the game if they attain a certain win total and/or ranking---but I honestly dont remember the exact details.

I don't know about the no-more-than part; that sounds like pre-CFP language for ND taking ACC's spot.

The Orange Bowl is one of the three contract bowls in the CFP.
When the respective bowl games do not host a CFP semifinal, the Rose Bowl is contracted to the Big10 champ and Pac12 champ, the Sugar Bowl is contracted to the SEC champ and the BigXII champ, and the Orange Bowl is contracted to matchup the ACC champ vs the highest-CFP-ranked among ND, remaining SEC, and remaining Big10.
When one of the three contract bowl games hosts a semifinal, the contracted champ(s) not in the CFP semifinal get one of the at large spots in Cotton, Peach, Fiesta. For the Orange Bowl specifically, when the OB hosts a semifinal, ACC champ if not in it gets an at large, but the other side of that matchup is just in the mix for remaining at-large spots.
When one of the three contract bowls is not a semifinal host, but the contracted conference champ is in the semifinals, the bowl replaces the contracted conference champion with the next highest-CFP-ranked team from that conference.

To look at it from ND perspective rather than the bowl, they are in CFP semifinal if they are top 4. If the OB is not a semifinal, and ND is ranked higher than the highest remaining SEC AND Big10 teams, they are in the Orange Bowl. They can take one of the at-large spots in Cotton Fiesta Peach if ranked high enough - as noted above top 10-ish for an at large, depending.

And BYU/Army/UMass/NMSU/Liberty can get a CFP semifinal with a top-4 ranking or an at large NY6 with a top-10-ish ranking.

Well ND has a limit but not a guarentee, they can only take the Orange Bowl spot twice in a six year period (really four I guess since the Orange will be a semi twice right?). They only get the autobid if they are the highest ranked team and the match up does not cause a regular season rematch (Orange has the option to passover a rematch to select the next highest team). This is how ND gets it's own vote, the two year tie in.

Quote:The ACC team's opponent in a given year will be the highest-ranked available team from the SEC, Big Ten, and Notre Dame, subject to several constraints: the SEC and Big Ten champions are always excluded, and when an SEC and/or Big Ten team qualifies for the College Football Playoff, the next available team would also be excluded from participating in the Orange Bowl due to contractual obligations with the Sugar Bowl and Rose Bowl, respectively. Also, should a highest-ranked team create a rematch with the ACC team, the Orange Bowl has the option of passing over that team for the next-highest ranked team among the Big Ten, SEC, and Notre Dame, again subject to the noted constraints. Rankings are based on the College Football Playoff committee's rankings.

Thanks (to you and attackcoog), I was not tracking the limit of two for ND or the guarantee of three to each of the conferences. I also wasn't tracking the ability of the OB to pass on rematches.

For your comment I italicized...I have always framed ND's piece of the OB contract as the basis for including them with the "contract bowl conferences" (in the language actually used by the CFP) or "power 5" (in the frequently used by in no way official vernacular).
I have always framed ND's 11th seat on the Board of Managers and the Management Committee along with the 10x discrepancy in payout as defining the difference between ND and the non-ND independents.
I thought that governance role was just structural - seat at the table was ND's requirement for coming onboard. Are you saying it's derived from being part of a contract bowl?
I'm probably splitting hairs.

(07-19-2019 10:08 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Readers Digest version: Join the AAC already BYU, if you want to remain competitively relevant.

What do you mean by “remain”? When was the last time they were actually relevant in football? I truly find this fascination with them truly bizarre. They are not good in football.

Boise has some TV value. So does BYU. And I presume Air Force.

Move Memphis and Tulane East. Add those 3 to the West. Voila, 14-team league.

(07-27-2019 11:50 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Boise has some TV value. So does BYU. And I presume Air Force.

Move Memphis and Tulane East. Add those 3 to the West. Voila, 14-team league.

lol...that would be a ridiculously spread out conference. But its probably the best and most valuable configuration. Ehhh-why not? Our conference geography sucks anyway.

(07-27-2019 12:48 AM)thespywhozaggedme Wrote:  

(07-19-2019 10:08 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Readers Digest version: Join the AAC already BYU, if you want to remain competitively relevant.

What do you mean by “remain”? When was the last time they were actually relevant in football? I truly find this fascination with them truly bizarre. They are not good in football.

You’re correct. They have cache and can be good again in a conference.