(07-15-2019 04:21 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 08:30 PM)PuddlePirate Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 07:50 PM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  Misleading thoughts or question.

If we add BYU (Football only) and VCU (Olympic sports) we will not add value to our media payout.

ESPN, on the other had, gets to pocket a lot of $$$.

My thought is if we stay at 11 ESPN may take back UConn's share or at the very least try to take it back.

we should add a full 12th member with the most upside (Athletics, enrollment, academics, and media market) in our foot print and move on.

We eliminate all the scheduling issues, and we do what we want and not bend over for ESPiN.

Your thoughts, and who.

In my opinion VCU fits the large public research university profile of most of the conference, 30,000ish students. They sponsor 17 sports. I think they would continue to thrive and probably improve with AAC resources.

I don't think we ever see BYU, but maybe I'm wrong.

FWIW—Aresco was non committal when discussing VCU in the Dan Totora interview. He said we were pursuing nobody—but we are willing to listen if someone calls us. However, unlike Boise, who he made fairly clear had not reached out—-he didn’t say VCU has not contacted us. So who knows. They represent an excellent academic and athletic fit. So, Who knows?

We're on the same page. I think we'd be fine with 11 basketball schools going forward regardless. 20 game conference schedule, full round robin. Football is a different animal and I believe someone needs to be added in the long run. If that's BYU great, if not then fine.

(07-15-2019 07:37 AM)Chappy Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 04:27 AM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 09:40 PM)SMUleopold Wrote:  I don't think you're acknowledging how difficult this could be.

No, it's not hard to find someone who will add value. There's literally twenty schools out there that would add some value.

But every possible candidate has serious warts, or we wouldn't even be having these conversations - we'd be yelling at Aresco and our AD's to get them in.

BYU probably doesn't want to be here. If that's true we are wasting our time even talking about them.
VCU doesn't have a football team - and football is 'critical' - and nobody who isn't a hardcore college basketball fan cares about them. Hell, I follow sports and I don't even know their mascot without googling it. I'm not going to bother.
It doesn't get any better from there.

Understand that it's more than just about adding value. It's got to be a decent fit, or we are going to find ourselves doing this again in five years, just like with UConn leaving.

We will not add financial value by regardless of who we add but we may lose UCon's share if we stay at 11... ESPN does not overpay for anything less than the SEC, or B1G.

“We’ll consider a 12th school, but unless that school helps our strength and really enhances our brand why would you do it?” Aresco said in an interview with the Houston Chronicle. “We’re not going to do anything that dilutes the brand and diminishes us at all.”

There are a few options that will ad value in the essence that they value in the "strength and brand" brand of the conference.

Losing UConn's TV share is not a problem, because there is still a small gain because we're splitting the other revenue (CFP money, NCAA credits, etc) 11 ways instead of 12.

The problem is if we don't get the waiver, we lose the championship game, and that might cause ESPN to cut our per-team payout.

We are not jeopardizing our championship game. It is in our ESPN contract. The waiver is only needed if we go to no divisions and have our top two play for the championship without a full round-robin.

Good grief. Another thread for what has already been discussed in exhaustion on the same topic?!

(07-15-2019 11:14 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  I think it's worth exploring William & Mary and Delaware. Flagship institutions with strong academics (especially W&M). A state flagship like Delaware has a lot more to offer than a lot of the so-so G4 schools.

Not saying I'd go with either one, if they're even interested in moving up, but I'd like to look at options that might have more long-term value even if the short-term is lower because they're moving up. JMU is in that boat as well.

I've been wondering about Delaware and JMU - surprised nobody has brought them up until now. Taking a traditional I-AA or FCS power and trying to bring them in for help has always been an option.

(07-14-2019 09:38 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 08:19 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 07:50 PM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  Misleading thoughts or question.

If we add BYU (Football only) and VCU (Olympic sports) we will not add value to our media payout.

ESPN, on the other had, gets to pocket a lot of $$$.

My thought is if we stay at 11 ESPN may take back UConn's share or at the very least try to take it back.

we should add a full 12th member with the most upside (Athletics, enrollment, academics, and media market) in our foot print and move on.

We eliminate all the scheduling issues, and we do what we want and not bend over for ESPiN.

Your thoughts, and who.

You know this how?

I mean, ESPN isn't going to reopen the contract to add to it, that's just common sense. They may work with the conference on what to do and ultimately leave the agreement alone, but they aren't going to pay more just for fun.

If the AAC adds BYU and/or VCU (lesser extent) the media deal has to improve and be worth more.

If it’s not they won’t get added. BYU is a national brand with lots of options for the conference and the western time zone for espn. That’s got to be worth more money. Basically espn is going to pay BYU either way. As an Indy now or in the AAC if they want to join a conference and have any shot at major bowl games in the future.

(07-15-2019 08:34 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Aresco is a snake oil salesman. Some here can't see that. Sad.

*snort*

No joke.

He's been selling UConn, SMU, Tulsa, Temple, Memphis, and the rest of us as on the same page as the SEC and Big 10.

That alone would lead a normal human being to believe he's either delusional or a sociopath.

(07-14-2019 09:40 PM)SMUleopold Wrote:  I don't think you're acknowledging how difficult this could be.

No, it's not hard to find someone who will add value. There's literally twenty schools out there that would add some value.

But every possible candidate has serious warts, or we wouldn't even be having these conversations - we'd be yelling at Aresco and our AD's to get them in.

BYU probably doesn't want to be here. If that's true we are wasting our time even talking about them.
VCU doesn't have a football team - and football is 'critical' - and nobody who isn't a hardcore college basketball fan cares about them. Hell, I follow sports and I don't even know their mascot without googling it. I'm not going to bother.
It doesn't get any better from there.

Understand that it's more than just about adding value. It's got to be a decent fit, or we are going to find ourselves doing this again in five years, just like with UConn leaving.

It’s worth pointing out that just because VCU doesn’t have a football team doesn’t mean they don’t add value and strengthen the brand. In fact that the beauty of the addition. You strengthen the basketball side if the conference without weakening or diluting the football payout to other members, it also requires no compromises on academic fit to institutional size. Adding VCU does not preclude the later addition of a football school or a full member should one emerge that actually makes sense.

(07-15-2019 12:16 PM)SMUleopold Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 11:14 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  I think it's worth exploring William & Mary and Delaware. Flagship institutions with strong academics (especially W&M). A state flagship like Delaware has a lot more to offer than a lot of the so-so G4 schools.

Not saying I'd go with either one, if they're even interested in moving up, but I'd like to look at options that might have more long-term value even if the short-term is lower because they're moving up. JMU is in that boat as well.

I've been wondering about Delaware and JMU - surprised nobody has brought them up until now. Taking a traditional I-AA or FCS power and trying to bring them in for help has always been an option.

And why would we take a wild gamble on an FCS team with no brand, a bad basketball program, who is regional school (not an institutional match in any way), with no proven track record of FBS success? If your willing to compromise all your institutional and performance standards on the gamble JMU might end up being a good FBS football team—why not just add a FBS school that is already good in football—but isn’t a fit in any other way?

(07-15-2019 12:16 PM)First Mate Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 09:38 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 08:19 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 07:50 PM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  Misleading thoughts or question.

If we add BYU (Football only) and VCU (Olympic sports) we will not add value to our media payout.

ESPN, on the other had, gets to pocket a lot of $$$.

My thought is if we stay at 11 ESPN may take back UConn's share or at the very least try to take it back.

we should add a full 12th member with the most upside (Athletics, enrollment, academics, and media market) in our foot print and move on.

We eliminate all the scheduling issues, and we do what we want and not bend over for ESPiN.

Your thoughts, and who.

You know this how?

I mean, ESPN isn't going to reopen the contract to add to it, that's just common sense. They may work with the conference on what to do and ultimately leave the agreement alone, but they aren't going to pay more just for fun.

If the AAC adds BYU and/or VCU (lesser extent) the media deal has to improve and be worth more.

If it’s not they won’t get added. BYU is a national brand with lots of options for the conference and the western time zone for espn. That’s got to be worth more money. Basically espn is going to pay BYU either way. As an Indy now or in the AAC if they want to join a conference and have any shot at major bowl games in the future.

The math doesn't work. Just theoretically calling it an even million increase per team - that's $8 million per year for BYU and an increase of $11 million per year to pay the 11 other AAC teams another $1 million each. Why would ESPN pay $19 million for BYU when they could just as soon get them for $9 million or less?

(07-15-2019 12:43 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 12:16 PM)First Mate Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 09:38 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 08:19 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 07:50 PM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  Misleading thoughts or question.

If we add BYU (Football only) and VCU (Olympic sports) we will not add value to our media payout.

ESPN, on the other had, gets to pocket a lot of $$$.

My thought is if we stay at 11 ESPN may take back UConn's share or at the very least try to take it back.

we should add a full 12th member with the most upside (Athletics, enrollment, academics, and media market) in our foot print and move on.

We eliminate all the scheduling issues, and we do what we want and not bend over for ESPiN.

Your thoughts, and who.

You know this how?

I mean, ESPN isn't going to reopen the contract to add to it, that's just common sense. They may work with the conference on what to do and ultimately leave the agreement alone, but they aren't going to pay more just for fun.

If the AAC adds BYU and/or VCU (lesser extent) the media deal has to improve and be worth more.

If it’s not they won’t get added. BYU is a national brand with lots of options for the conference and the western time zone for espn. That’s got to be worth more money. Basically espn is going to pay BYU either way. As an Indy now or in the AAC if they want to join a conference and have any shot at major bowl games in the future.

The math doesn't work. Just theoretically calling it an even million increase per team - that's $8 million per year for BYU and an increase of $11 million per year to pay the 11 other AAC teams another $1 million each. Why would ESPN pay $19 million for BYU when they could just as soon get them for $9 million or less?

The cost of adding BYU is offset by the fact that they are already paying BYU and would have to pay whatever other potential candidate we select. Any other replacement is either not being paid by ESPN or is being paid way less than BYU which means that they will actually see a reduction by giving BYU say 2m extra versus giving CSU or ODU or whatever an extra 7. That is why this makes so much sense because it eliminates a duplicated expense.

edit: They could give us a 1m/each raise and potentially come out ahead financially.

(07-15-2019 12:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 09:40 PM)SMUleopold Wrote:  I don't think you're acknowledging how difficult this could be.

No, it's not hard to find someone who will add value. There's literally twenty schools out there that would add some value.

But every possible candidate has serious warts, or we wouldn't even be having these conversations - we'd be yelling at Aresco and our AD's to get them in.

BYU probably doesn't want to be here. If that's true we are wasting our time even talking about them.
VCU doesn't have a football team - and football is 'critical' - and nobody who isn't a hardcore college basketball fan cares about them. Hell, I follow sports and I don't even know their mascot without googling it. I'm not going to bother.
It doesn't get any better from there.

Understand that it's more than just about adding value. It's got to be a decent fit, or we are going to find ourselves doing this again in five years, just like with UConn leaving.

It’s worth pointing out that just because VCU doesn’t have a football team doesn’t mean they don’t add value and strengthen the brand. In fact that the beauty of the addition. You strengthen the basketball side if the conference without weakening or diluting the football payout to other members, it also requires no compromises on academic fit to institutional size. Adding VCU does not preclude the later addition of a football school or a full member should one emerge that actually makes sense.

Sir, that is the exact point I was making. VCU adds value but doesn't have a football team.

(07-15-2019 12:41 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 12:16 PM)SMUleopold Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 11:14 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  I think it's worth exploring William & Mary and Delaware. Flagship institutions with strong academics (especially W&M). A state flagship like Delaware has a lot more to offer than a lot of the so-so G4 schools.

Not saying I'd go with either one, if they're even interested in moving up, but I'd like to look at options that might have more long-term value even if the short-term is lower because they're moving up. JMU is in that boat as well.

I've been wondering about Delaware and JMU - surprised nobody has brought them up until now. Taking a traditional I-AA or FCS power and trying to bring them in for help has always been an option.

And why would we take a wild gamble on an FCS team with no brand, a bad basketball program, who is regional school (not an institutional match in any way), with no proven track record of FBS success? If your willing to compromise all your institutional and performance standards on the gamble JMU might end up being a good FBS football team—why not just add a FBS school that is already good in football—but isn’t a fit in any other way?

Not advocating it, just wondered why it took so long for someone to mention them.

(07-15-2019 01:07 PM)ECBrad Wrote:  The cost of adding BYU is offset by the fact that they are already paying BYU and would have to pay whatever other potential candidate we select. Any other replacement is either not being paid by ESPN or is being paid way less than BYU which means that they will actually see a reduction by giving BYU say 2m extra versus giving CSU or ODU or whatever an extra 7. That is why this makes so much sense because it eliminates a duplicated expense.

edit: They could give us a 1m/each raise and potentially come out ahead financially.

Adding Old Dominion at a full share and giving BYU an independent contract in the same amount as an AAC full share is still $5 million cheaper annually than adding just BYU to the AAC with a $1 million raise for everyone, and you get ODU for "free".

There's not a lot of ways around the fact that a $1 million per team per year raise for a 12-team AAC amounts to nearly two additional conference shares in term of expense to ESPN. You could go to 14 schools at the current per-school payout for about $2 million more than adding one school and giving everyone an extra million just for fun.

(07-15-2019 04:13 AM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  “We’ll consider a 12th school, but unless that school helps our strength and really enhances our brand why would you do it?” Aresco said in an interview with the Houston Chronicle.

Georgia State (Compatible Academic commitments, Athletic commitment, Large media market, Huge student enrollment, Huge potential and upside, good Institutional Fit)

I'm sure I come off as a homer, which I am . But I really think the overall institutional profile of Georgia State University could make sense to many AAC presidents in a closed door meeting.

We are a tier 1 Carnegie research institution with $1.1~$1.2 billion annual operating budget that's on an upward trend every fiscal year. Ranked within top 200 national univeristies by major publications. Not sure how many SBC/CUSA schools can match that.

Solid financial/political support from both the GA legislature and city of ATL for continued growth. No need to worry about any sudden death judgement like UAB received few years ago. (ex. City of Atlanta pretty much gave us the Turner Field and surrounding properties for football, basketball, and baseball facilties...and the Georgia governor approved ~$50mil investment toward new the 8000 seat capacity basketball arena to open in 2 years, with GSU paying for the other half).

With the projected growth to 60k students in little over a decade, the athletics budget pretty much gets head start with $30mil from the student fees alone. A pretty solid foundation to build on...

ATL maket is the missing hole in AAC's geographical footprint...and 6 million households in a major southern city has to be pretty attractive to AAC execs.

The potential to tap into our 150k local alumni network for the athletics side is there...once the football team sustains some consistent success against some known opponents. Last year, the alumni fundraising campaign easily raised $300 mill for various campus projects around the university. Another similar fundraising is planned this year specifically for the south campus around the football stadium. The AD just need to tap into that goldmine.

TLDR- looking at the overall academic/institutional qualities, AAC presidents just might look favorable upon what Georgia State can offer.

(07-15-2019 12:25 PM)SMUleopold Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 08:34 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Aresco is a snake oil salesman. Some here can't see that. Sad.

*snort*

No joke.

He's been selling UConn, SMU, Tulsa, Temple, Memphis, and the rest of us as on the same page as the SEC and Big 10.

That alone would lead a normal human being to believe he's either delusional or a sociopath.

He made clear, just the other day, that he doesn't think we're on the same page as the Big 10. He said exactly that.

The dude had the least valuable Big East teams and a terrible tv deal. He went out and grabbed the best C-USA teams, and landed the 6th-best (by far) tv deal in college sports. He's getting a fair price for his snake oil.

(07-15-2019 10:07 AM)vabearcat Wrote:  Good gosh, VCU is not an academic fit. In the Commonwealth of Virginia, they are probably the sixth or seventh most selective state school. And ODU is even lower. Neither brings much prestige or anything else as an addition to this conference.

I asked UVA and Va Tech on behalf of the AAC. Neither was interested. Nor was Ohio State.

VCU meets the criteria: Large Tier 1 university in the footprint with competitive athletics. It helps that they are urban.

Not their fault that they share a state with UVA, Va Tech and W&M. If you moved Oregon State into Virginia, it would be in a similar position.

With the exception of Tulane and, arguably, Navy, none of us are the highest ranked FBS academic schools in our states.

VCU and Dayton meet the Olympic sports criteria: The ability to make the NCAA men’s basketball tourney.

(07-15-2019 07:45 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 04:27 AM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 09:40 PM)SMUleopold Wrote:  I don't think you're acknowledging how difficult this could be.

No, it's not hard to find someone who will add value. There's literally twenty schools out there that would add some value.

But every possible candidate has serious warts, or we wouldn't even be having these conversations - we'd be yelling at Aresco and our AD's to get them in.

BYU probably doesn't want to be here. If that's true we are wasting our time even talking about them.
VCU doesn't have a football team - and football is 'critical' - and nobody who isn't a hardcore college basketball fan cares about them. Hell, I follow sports and I don't even know their mascot without googling it. I'm not going to bother.
It doesn't get any better from there.

Understand that it's more than just about adding value. It's got to be a decent fit, or we are going to find ourselves doing this again in five years, just like with UConn leaving.

We will not add financial value by regardless of who we add but we may lose UCon's share if we stay at 11... ESPN does not overpay for anything less than the SEC, or B1G.

“We’ll consider a 12th school, but unless that school helps our strength and really enhances our brand why would you do it?” Aresco said in an interview with the Houston Chronicle. “We’re not going to do anything that dilutes the brand and diminishes us at all.”

There are a few options that will ad value in the essence that they value in the "strength and brand" brand of the conference.

If we lose UConn's share, it doesn't matter. We all still get exactly what we expected, $7M. If we add a 12th, we're still getting the same $7M.

So we're not "losing" anything. We're just not getting extra money we didn't expect, anyway.

It is a rolling payout. $7mm comes in a few years. Horrible negotiation

(07-15-2019 11:14 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  I think it's worth exploring William & Mary and Delaware. Flagship institutions with strong academics (especially W&M). A state flagship like Delaware has a lot more to offer than a lot of the so-so G4 schools.

Explore them for what exactly? For a son or daughter to go to school there? Ok...but why mention that on an AAC Board?

"State Flagship" of Delaware? And? Heck...Metro Orlando has 2.5 times the population of the ENTIRE STATE of Delaware (only 973,000).

Now Willamsburg (home to William & Mary) is a wonderful little historic town...but what does that have to do with the AAC?

Something tells me you had a "moment" and just landed on the wrong website when you made the above comments.

(07-15-2019 11:57 AM)CoogPaw Wrote:  Good grief. Another thread for what has already been discussed in exhaustion on the same topic?!

WOW, I must have touched a nerve, must be better at this than I thought for you to post here after only posting 191 in five years... I'm honored.