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No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
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ncrdbl1 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
(07-13-2019 08:28 PM)Keeper Wrote:  
(07-13-2019 04:06 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  
(07-13-2019 02:53 PM)WiseMan Wrote:  
(07-13-2019 01:05 PM)passat25 Wrote:  They are biased toward the blue blood teams.. It's always been that way with ESPN.. They don't like us anyway.

I don’t know about liking but there is definite bias to blue bloods. Do you think “severe lack of experience” was ever used in conjunction with the number one recruiting classes Duke and Kansas has the past 10 years (they had virtually all of them)? Andy Katz used some strong language about Wiseman in his top 25 players. Again, reflecting what you said: biased reporting.

Those teams also returned solid cores of experienced quality players from the previous year.

We return some decent players but nothing near what these other teams returned from their tournament teams.

Your ability to misinterpret fact is only exceeded by the arrogance of your belief that you are correct. Those KY and Kansas and Duke #1 recruiting classes joined squads that were less experienced less productive than what the Tigers have returning this year.

Duke returned at least 1 five star and a few 4 star players to go with their #1 class last year. We have nothing close to that returning this season.
07-13-2019 09:51 PM
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uskjtc02 Away
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Post: #22
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
(07-13-2019 11:34 AM)presskh Wrote:  
(07-13-2019 11:18 AM)Galilee Wrote:  ESPN must be blind.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket...25-2019-20

Since we are depending on mostly freshmen for our team firepower and have a relatively inexperienced head coach, I think that is a fair starting position.

i have to agree.
07-13-2019 10:49 PM
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Mimi Offline
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Post: #23
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
I do not feel it is disrespectful to be ranked or predicted to start at 13.

We were ranked throughout 2013 and 2014.

Then out for the next five seasons.

We have great recruits coming in and a potential to be a championship contender for the next several years. If a team with not just 7-8 newcomers in the rotation but 7 FRESHMEN is picked before playing a game to be Sweet 16 level, I a fine with that.

The upside is higher. But that sounds reasonable at this point.
07-13-2019 11:27 PM
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NigelTufnel Offline
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Post: #24
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
(07-13-2019 11:34 AM)presskh Wrote:  
(07-13-2019 11:18 AM)Galilee Wrote:  ESPN must be blind.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket...25-2019-20

Since we are depending on mostly freshmen for our team firepower and have a relatively inexperienced head coach, I think that is a fair starting position.

I think it's more of a dig at Penny than anything else. If Coach K or Cal had this group coming back / in, they'd be top 3 no doubt; and maybe that's appropriate, I don't know.

I do know this is a big year, if we come out and crush teams, like I think we will, it will make us even more difficult to negative recruit against. Right now, Cal / K / Izzo / Williams and the rest are leaning on the "why would you go there, he hasn't done anything" angle.

Also, it strikes me, Penny has a real opportunity here. Roy Williams is 68 years old, Coach K is 72, Boeheim is 74 … when those schools have to transition a coach, it's going to be difficult. Look what happened when Dean left UNC (the Guthridge / Coach Doh era).

Even the "younger" coaches in the elite ranks (Self and Cal) seem old by comparison to Penny. And it's not just age, it's energy, it's relating to these high school kids. Heck, Penny is 47 years old, it's not like he's fresh outta college, he's 6 years older than Josh Pastner (of course, while Pastner was washing Lute Olsen's chalk boards, Penny was winning Gold Medals). But he seems so fresh and new. He rolls up to Peach Jam wearing a Nike kick from 1996 and kids notice, but not only that, the media notices, which makes other kids out there notice ...

Anyway, it's gonna be a fun ride. I liked what he got out of the kids last year … melding the old with the new was impressive.

This upcoming year is going to be the most highly anticipated year since 2007 and I can't wait!

Then again … we about to go undefeated in football, so let's not get our carts before our horses!!!!
07-14-2019 12:13 AM
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uskjtc02 Away
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Post: #25
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
I really don’t understand how you guys think this is disrespectful. we have practically no senior leadership and very little experience anywhere. Teams take time to gel and sometimes that takes a while. This ranking is for the beginning of the season, not the end. Nothing wrong with a Sweet 16 run.
(This post was last modified: 07-14-2019 07:39 AM by uskjtc02.)
07-14-2019 07:38 AM
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mairving Offline
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Post: #26
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
Somewhere between 10 to 15 is a good place to start. Win a few games and boom we are top 10. Win a few more and we are top 5. Win them all and we are NCAA champions.
07-14-2019 08:26 AM
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dan o Offline
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Post: #27
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
Scheduling is key. Though Penny has strengthened it, we need more opportunities against the usual powers.

Until we start playing [and beating] some of them, we are dogged by our perennial rep of soft schedule with few [if any] big wins

My opinion.
07-14-2019 08:41 AM
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Tigerx3 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
There is a natural and expected bias for teams/coaches who have a long history of being at the top. Like it or not we had an extended fall from elite basketball. A gamble with Pastner and a colossal mistake with Tubby created the story line on the Tigers.

We are now the new kid on the block with buzz and swagger but from coach to players no matter how good people think we will be, and I think we will be very good, we are unproven. Top 15 is fair. In fact I like the presence of the climb for motivation and to keep egos in check. There is a lot to be said for earning our ranking.

In a couple of years of top recruiting and winning to match The Tigers will be the blue bloods other teams complain about and are jealous of.
07-14-2019 09:00 AM
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450bench Offline
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Post: #29
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
(07-13-2019 11:28 AM)k2tigers Wrote:  that doesn't mean there are 12 teams more talented than us, just a prediction on where we might start off being ranked...

13. Memphis Tigers
Previous: 12

Despite not being No. 1 in the rankings -- or even in the top 10 -- the Tigers are going to be the headliners in college basketball next season. Part of that is due to Penny Hardaway being at the helm, but now he's bringing in the No. 1 recruiting class in the country, led by No. 1 overall prospect James Wiseman. There is a ton of hype surrounding the Tigers, but they've dropped a few spots after the initial high wore off from their spring commitment run. All five starters could be freshmen, with Wiseman flanked by five-star forwards Precious Achiuwa and D.J. Jeffries, and ESPN 100 guards Boogie Ellis and Lester Quinones in the backcourt. Some potential problems include a severe lack of experience and how Hardaway fits all the pieces together.


Seems fair to me
07-14-2019 09:26 AM
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Tiger1983 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
Unlike football, the starting point is meaningless. We will prove our worth on the court.
07-14-2019 09:58 AM
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bubbapt Offline
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Post: #31
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
Most of the team has never won an NCAA game.

Lets get to Thanksgiving and see how we look.
07-14-2019 10:14 AM
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WiseMan Away
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Post: #32
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
Seems as if half of you are trying to lower expectations. Penny has said he and the players talk about their ultimate goal of winning the national championship every day. This is, as one writer put it, the most balanced #1 class in some time. I’m all in.
07-14-2019 10:28 AM
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WiseMan Away
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Post: #33
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
(07-14-2019 08:26 AM)mairving Wrote:  Somewhere between 10 to 15 is a good place to start. Win a few games and boom we are top 10. Win a few more and we are top 5. Win them all and we are NCAA champions.

We can lose 10 and win national championship. Rankings don’t mean shite.
(This post was last modified: 07-14-2019 10:30 AM by WiseMan.)
07-14-2019 10:29 AM
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aTxTIGER Offline
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Post: #34
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
Some of yalls expectations are outrageous. Yes, the expectations should be much higher than last year. We have, on paper, a very talented roster. But we also have a roster that is basically freshmen and sophomores. We will blow teams off the court with talent and we will also lose WTF games. Just enjoy it and dont get mad when we dont go undefeated.
07-14-2019 10:36 AM
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bubbapt Offline
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Post: #35
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
(07-14-2019 10:28 AM)WiseMan Wrote:  Seems as if half of you are trying to lower expectations. Penny has said he and the players talk about their ultimate goal of winning the national championship every day. This is, as one writer put it, the most balanced #1 class in some time. I’m all in.

I think that by March, they’ll be the best team in the country.

I don’t think they will be the best team in the country in November. There is a lot these freshman guards are going to have to figure out.
(This post was last modified: 07-14-2019 10:50 AM by bubbapt.)
07-14-2019 10:49 AM
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BinghamptonNed Offline
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Post: #36
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
(07-14-2019 10:28 AM)WiseMan Wrote:  Seems as if half of you are trying to lower expectations. Penny has said he and the players talk about their ultimate goal of winning the national championship every day. This is, as one writer put it, the most balanced #1 class in some time. I’m all in.

i like how you don't let your name on here stop you from posting obtusly
07-14-2019 06:30 PM
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WiseMan Away
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Post: #37
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
(07-14-2019 06:30 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  
(07-14-2019 10:28 AM)WiseMan Wrote:  Seems as if half of you are trying to lower expectations. Penny has said he and the players talk about their ultimate goal of winning the national championship every day. This is, as one writer put it, the most balanced #1 class in some time. I’m all in.

i like how you don't let your name on here stop you from posting obtusly

If you meant obtusely, I feel the majority of my posts are as perceptive as most here (certainly more so than this one of yours). I’m not sure how my screen name would affect whether I post obtusely or not.
07-14-2019 08:01 PM
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WiseMan Away
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Post: #38
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
(07-14-2019 10:49 AM)bubbapt Wrote:  
(07-14-2019 10:28 AM)WiseMan Wrote:  Seems as if half of you are trying to lower expectations. Penny has said he and the players talk about their ultimate goal of winning the national championship every day. This is, as one writer put it, the most balanced #1 class in some time. I’m all in.

I think that by March, they’ll be the best team in the country.

I don’t think they will be the best team in the country in November. There is a lot these freshman guards are going to have to figure out.

I agree that that scenario is a real possibility.
07-14-2019 08:02 PM
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Tiger87 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
(07-13-2019 11:28 AM)k2tigers Wrote:  that doesn't mean there are 12 teams more talented than us, just a prediction on where we might start off being ranked...

It's not a prediction on a ranking. It's a ranking. Or a prediction. But not both.
07-15-2019 02:41 PM
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Tiger87 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: No way 12 teams are better than the Tigers.
I don't believe the point is that we're going to be a greatly experienced team. We're not.

The point is that we return as much experience as most of the UK or Duke teams that pulled in #1 classes. And if those UK or Duke teams weren't "penalized" in preseason rankings for lack of experience, why should we expect to be? The last 10 years of #1 classes:

2010-11 UK AP preseason #11 returned 41 mpg, 12 pts, 6 rebs
2011-12 UK AP pre #2 returned 91 mpg, 39 pts, 15 rebs
2012-13 UK AP pre #3 returned 14 mpg, 5 pts, 2 rebs
2013-14 UK AP pre #1 returned 49 mpg, 20 pts, 12 rebs
2014-15 Duke AP pre #4 returned 90 mpg, 31 pts, 13 rebs
2015-16 UK AP pre #2 returned 59 mpg, 15 pts, 9 rebs
2016-17 Duke AP pre #1 returned 103 mpg, 46 pts, 13 rebs
2017-18 Duke AP pre #1 returned 43 mpg, 18 pts, 7 rebs
2018-19 Duke AP pre #4 returned 42 mpg, 11 pts, 11 rebs
2019-20 Memphis AP pre ?? returns 59 mpg, 22 pts, 8 rebs

So as far as pure experience goes, we return as much or more than 6 of the last 9 Duke and UK #1 classes. And other than the 2010-11 preseason UK ranking, all the other years had the #1 class moving their program inside the top 4.

Now, you might argue that their returning benches had higher level talent (experienced or not). Or you might argue that Penny is not a coach at their level (this is the bias I believe is at play, though none will say it). But you can't just argue "lack of experience".
07-15-2019 04:44 PM
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