Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Independence Bowl issues
Author Message
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 23,408
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 722
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #241
RE: Independence Bowl issues
Let's remember that for a good portion of the history of the I-Bowl the NCAA was artificially constraining the number of bowl games. That lack of competition made it easier to get bigger names.

There are only 10 current games that are older. The Bluebonnet was older and folded.

I-Bowl started in 1976.
Newer games with larger payouts
Outback (Tampa) 1989
Camping World (Orlando) 1990
Las Vegas (Las Vegas)1992
Alamo (San Antonio) 1993
Music City (Nashville) 1998
Redbox (Santa Clara) 2002
Belk (Charlotte) 2002
Texas (Houston) 2006
Birmingham (Birmingham) 2006
Military Bowl (Annapolis) 2008
Pinstripe (New York City) 2010
First Responder (Dallas) 2010

With the exception of Annapolis and Birmingham, every city is one that you would pretty much think could easily tap into several million in sponsor money. Annapolis is well positioned playing at the Naval Academy and having activities in DC and seeking out defense contractor money and Birmingham has the good fortune of being the SEC's home city and ESPN is running it and they probably have an outstanding idea of how much exactly they need to put in each cycle to keep their slot.
(This post was last modified: 08-19-2019 01:27 PM by arkstfan.)
08-19-2019 01:27 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
quo vadis Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 30,741
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 752
I Root For: USF/Georgetown
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Post: #242
RE: Independence Bowl issues
(08-19-2019 12:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 12:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 11:42 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 07:56 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-18-2019 07:23 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Yup. Reality check against List of Metropolitan Areas by Size. Memphis is at #43, nestled in with Milwaukee, Providence, Jacksonville, Raleigh NC, Richmond, Louisville, New Orleans, Salt LAke City, Hartford, Birmingham.

Shreveport is at 125, between Salem, OR and Fort Wayne, IN. (Mobile AL is in the same neighborhood at 131)

First, a definition that says Memphis is "major league" in the same sense Dallas is is meaningless, and second, being "major league" has nothing to do with bowl viability.

Disagree. Memphis isn't a top 10 metro, but it's a top 50 metro.


Quote:The Independence Bowl has operated just fine for over 50 years. Its problems are its stagnant payout, not the nature of the city.

The lack of ability to increase the payout is related to the mediocrity of the city. The future of the Independence Bowl is in the same category as the Camellia, Bahamas, Albuquerque, Tuscon, Boise bowls.

You disagree with my statement that a definition of "major league" that lumps Dallas and Memphis together is meaningless? Dallas is a "top 10 metro area" and dwarfs Memphis in every way, so I am spot on about that.

And Memphis dwarfs Shreveport. Dallas is not a relevant comparison.

EDIT You don't disagree with that either. You just disagree with the popular rule of thumb for "major league city" as "having a major pro sports franchise". We are at an impasse there.

Quote:As for Shreveport and the Indy Bowl, I have said all along that if they can't up their payout by about $500k per team, they are headed to the dustbin. I don't think we disagree about that.

I don't think it's the dustbin, I think they'll get two random G5s.

We agree, if they can't come up with more money, they get left in the dust. I'm just pointing out that the money likely isn't there, because Shreveport is a dump and doesn't have the money sloshing around that Memphis or Birmingham has.

Quote: And the fact that Shreveport isn't any kind of destination city in terms of weather or entertainment, etc. sure doesn't help. But, they have run a successful bowl for over 40 years, and Shreveport has been a dump that whole time, so I'm not sure Shreveport's dump status is the big problem.

As college football has become bigger business, Shreveport has gotten more competition. Bowl games in NFL showcase stadiums in Charlotte, Nashville, Houston, Phoenix have jumped Independence in the pecking order.

Shreveport's dump status wasn't a problem when they were one of a dozen cities hosting bowl games, or one of 20 games. Now, there are 40 or so cities hosting, another dozen cities looking at Montgomery AL and the Bahamas and saying "we could do that", so Shreveport has serious competition for landing a P5 bowl tie-in, and the only card they have to play is the glorious "history" of the Poulan Weedeater Bowl.

The Sun Bowl is in the same sort of category, but the PAC and ACC are propping each other up there because they lack better options.

03-lmfao There is no "popular rule of thumb" for categorizing any city with one measly pro franchise as a "major league" city. That's a fabrication of people who want to call their small podunk cities 'major league', but in the popular imagination, the notion that Memphis is in the came class as say Dallas or Atlanta is ridonculous, and my view is representative of that popular view.

And that's because Memphis is dwarfed by a city like Dallas, which is truly major league. And no, Memphis is not equidistant between Shreveport and Dallas. While bigger than Shreveport, it's far closer to it than it is to Dallas. In terms of metro area economic power, it's something like:

Shreveport ......... Memphis ..................................................... Dallas.

Plus, Memphis is at a disadvantage because a significant chunk of its metro area is in Arkansas and Mississippi, and people in those areas are more likely to identify with their home states than with Memphis, are less likely to support it. That's probably why the Liberty Bowl was sliding down the SEC totem pole and it took a while to provide the boost needed to prop it up. It's not easy to even support a smallish bowl like the Liberty in a smaller city like Memphis. Heck, Forbes says the Memphis Grizzles are the least-valuable NBA franchise:

https://www.forbes.com/nba-valuations/list/

So no, having one major sports franchise, and the very least valuable one in their league, does not make a city "major league" in any popular sense, because the populous isn't that dumb.

As for the actual issue here, I think we agree, because I think a bowl with two random G5s *is* a dustbin - which I agree is where the Indy is headed, or in fact already is, without a higher payout.

07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 08-19-2019 03:23 PM by quo vadis.)
08-19-2019 03:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
quo vadis Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 30,741
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 752
I Root For: USF/Georgetown
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Post: #243
RE: Independence Bowl issues
(08-19-2019 01:27 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  With the exception of Annapolis and Birmingham, every city is one that you would pretty much think could easily tap into several million in sponsor money.

FWIW, Annapolis is a wealthy area itself, the capitol of Maryland, and located on the edges of both the Washington DC and Baltimore areas, it effectively is in both their areas. There aren't many places in the USA with more money within a 50 mile radius.

But your general point, and JB's, is well taken - the Independence Bowl used to compete against a smaller number of bowls. Competition has heated up, and its inability to raise payout money has it falling behind, perhaps fatally so.
(This post was last modified: 08-19-2019 03:12 PM by quo vadis.)
08-19-2019 03:10 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
johnbragg Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 9,597
Joined: Dec 2011
Reputation: 338
I Root For: St Johns
Location:
Post: #244
RE: Independence Bowl issues
(08-19-2019 03:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  03-lmfao There is no "popular rule of thumb" for categorizing any city with one measly pro franchise as a "major league" city. That's a fabrication of people who want to call their small podunk cities 'major league', but in the popular imagination, the notion that Memphis is in the came class as say Dallas or Atlanta is ridonculous, and my view is representative of that popular view.

Source? Because the first google result for "major league city" is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Am...franchises. There's a reason that cities like Oklahoma City spend ridiculous amounts of money building arenas and stadiums to get a pro sports league to certify them as "major league".

Quote:And that's because Memphis is dwarfed by a city like Dallas, which is truly major league.

Yes, which is why, way way upthread, I first described Memphis as a "major league/AAA city." I'm still not sure how Dallas entered the picture.

Quote:And no, Memphis is not equidistant between Shreveport and Dallas. While bigger than Shreveport, it's far closer to it than it is to Dallas. In terms of metro area economic power, it's something like:

Shreveport ......... Memphis ..................................................... Dallas.

Perhaps true, depending on how you measure. On the other hand, Memphis is supporting one P5 bowl, Dallas is supporting a CFP bowl, plus 2 more bowls at the Independence Bowl level. Shreveport is at the G5 bowl level, around the Mobile or Albuquerque or Boise level.

Quote:Plus, Memphis is at a disadvantage because a significant chunk of its metro area is in Arkansas and Mississippi, and people in those areas are more likely to identify with their home states than with Memphis, are less likely to support it. That's probably why the Liberty Bowl was sliding down the SEC totem pole and it took a while to provide the boost needed to prop it up. It's not easy to even support a smallish bowl like the Liberty in a smaller city like Memphis. Heck, Forbes says the Memphis Grizzles are the least-valuable NBA franchise:

https://www.forbes.com/nba-valuations/list/

So no, having one major sports franchise, and the very least valuable one in their league, does not make a city "major league" in any popular sense, because the populous isn't that dumb.

Well, I'm originally from New York City, so a part of me is still a little surprised to not see cows wandering the streets of Dallas and alligators in New Orleans and flush toilets in half the country. Which is why it's nice to go by hard-and-fast rules like "do you have a major pro sports franchise?"

Quote:As for the actual issue here, I think we agree, because I think a bowl with two random G5s *is* a dustbin - which I agree is where the Indy is headed, or in fact already is, without a higher payout.

07-coffee3

Ahh, I misunderstood you. I read "dustbin" as "out of business."

(08-19-2019 07:56 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  First, a definition that says Memphis is "major league" in the same sense Dallas is is meaningless,

Well, I have no idea what your definition of "major league" is, except "Dallas or Atlanta." I have no idea if Minneapolis or Charlotte or Cincinnati qualify, with where you'd draw the line or why. My definition is very simple, and with the exception of Green Bay and some Canadian hockeyplexes, works pretty well.

Quote:and second, being "major league" has nothing to do with bowl viability.

I think you've retreated from this point, acknowledging that the Memphis area has more money than Shreveport.
(This post was last modified: 08-19-2019 04:18 PM by johnbragg.)
08-19-2019 04:08 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 23,408
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 722
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #245
RE: Independence Bowl issues
(08-19-2019 03:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 01:27 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  With the exception of Annapolis and Birmingham, every city is one that you would pretty much think could easily tap into several million in sponsor money.

FWIW, Annapolis is a wealthy area itself, the capitol of Maryland, and located on the edges of both the Washington DC and Baltimore areas, it effectively is in both their areas. There aren't many places in the USA with more money within a 50 mile radius.

But your general point, and JB's, is well taken - the Independence Bowl used to compete against a smaller number of bowls. Competition has heated up, and its inability to raise payout money has it falling behind, perhaps fatally so.

My observation is ESPN can pretty much gin up some money for any bowl but regardless of whether you are ESPN run or independent unless you are one the mega bowls with a near guaranteed large audience, you need some local tie. AutoZone is based in Memphis. I think Franklin American Mortgage was based in Nashville until bought out they were also sponsored by Nashville's Gaylord Hotels. Holiday and Poinsettia had a cycle of local affiliations. Outback is based in Tampa, Alamo was sponsored by Builders Square when they were based in San Antonio. Houston based Meineke was big sponsor of the Texas Bowl. Belk is based in Charlotte.

It's not an always thing but it certainly seems that many these newer bowls that have passed Shreveport mostly had at least a period where they were getting local money that pushed them up the pecking order opening up even bigger deals.

Sort of makes me wonder what would have happened if MAC had cast their lot with Little Rock instead of Montgomery.

TV became the stick point. Montgomery had handed their effort over to ESPN Events and a pre-Christmas ESPN slot was guaranteed. Little Rock balked because they wanted to be post-Christmas and that meant CBSSN was their only option BUT they already had Riceland Foods signed on as title sponsor (Riceland Foods Rice Bowl). The guy who was heading up the effort was very surprised that MAC bailed out for Montgomery because Montgomery was offering what he says was significantly less money. Well it would have to be a crap ton of money before most commissioners pick being on CBSSN over ESPN.

Still there are those who have done OK sticking to their guns. Tucson is doing OK with their bowl because they were adamant that they wanted to be post-Christmas. They turned down a reportedly nice offer from ESPN to take the Poinsettia's slot but their committee is committed to the idea that they can grow organically and eventually get the money up so they grow it into a post-Christmas game that involves the Pac-12. Still a good way from accomplishing that but they are solvent and seem to be growing.
08-19-2019 04:28 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Attackcoog Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 29,365
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 1281
I Root For: Houston
Location:
Post: #246
RE: Independence Bowl issues
(08-19-2019 04:28 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 03:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 01:27 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  With the exception of Annapolis and Birmingham, every city is one that you would pretty much think could easily tap into several million in sponsor money.

FWIW, Annapolis is a wealthy area itself, the capitol of Maryland, and located on the edges of both the Washington DC and Baltimore areas, it effectively is in both their areas. There aren't many places in the USA with more money within a 50 mile radius.

But your general point, and JB's, is well taken - the Independence Bowl used to compete against a smaller number of bowls. Competition has heated up, and its inability to raise payout money has it falling behind, perhaps fatally so.

My observation is ESPN can pretty much gin up some money for any bowl but regardless of whether you are ESPN run or independent unless you are one the mega bowls with a near guaranteed large audience, you need some local tie. AutoZone is based in Memphis. I think Franklin American Mortgage was based in Nashville until bought out they were also sponsored by Nashville's Gaylord Hotels. Holiday and Poinsettia had a cycle of local affiliations. Outback is based in Tampa, Alamo was sponsored by Builders Square when they were based in San Antonio. Houston based Meineke was big sponsor of the Texas Bowl. Belk is based in Charlotte.

It's not an always thing but it certainly seems that many these newer bowls that have passed Shreveport mostly had at least a period where they were getting local money that pushed them up the pecking order opening up even bigger deals.

Sort of makes me wonder what would have happened if MAC had cast their lot with Little Rock instead of Montgomery.

TV became the stick point. Montgomery had handed their effort over to ESPN Events and a pre-Christmas ESPN slot was guaranteed. Little Rock balked because they wanted to be post-Christmas and that meant CBSSN was their only option BUT they already had Riceland Foods signed on as title sponsor (Riceland Foods Rice Bowl). The guy who was heading up the effort was very surprised that MAC bailed out for Montgomery because Montgomery was offering what he says was significantly less money. Well it would have to be a crap ton of money before most commissioners pick being on CBSSN over ESPN.

Still there are those who have done OK sticking to their guns. Tucson is doing OK with their bowl because they were adamant that they wanted to be post-Christmas. They turned down a reportedly nice offer from ESPN to take the Poinsettia's slot but their committee is committed to the idea that they can grow organically and eventually get the money up so they grow it into a post-Christmas game that involves the Pac-12. Still a good way from accomplishing that but they are solvent and seem to be growing.


That was one of the many errors made by the AAC with their Miami Beach Bowl. They didnt fund it well and they allowed ESPN to cram it into the ugliest of all ugly broadcast windows. A weekday afternoon at 2pm about 4 days prior to Christmas.
08-19-2019 04:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 23,408
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 722
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #247
RE: Independence Bowl issues
(08-19-2019 04:41 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 04:28 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 03:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 01:27 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  With the exception of Annapolis and Birmingham, every city is one that you would pretty much think could easily tap into several million in sponsor money.

FWIW, Annapolis is a wealthy area itself, the capitol of Maryland, and located on the edges of both the Washington DC and Baltimore areas, it effectively is in both their areas. There aren't many places in the USA with more money within a 50 mile radius.

But your general point, and JB's, is well taken - the Independence Bowl used to compete against a smaller number of bowls. Competition has heated up, and its inability to raise payout money has it falling behind, perhaps fatally so.

My observation is ESPN can pretty much gin up some money for any bowl but regardless of whether you are ESPN run or independent unless you are one the mega bowls with a near guaranteed large audience, you need some local tie. AutoZone is based in Memphis. I think Franklin American Mortgage was based in Nashville until bought out they were also sponsored by Nashville's Gaylord Hotels. Holiday and Poinsettia had a cycle of local affiliations. Outback is based in Tampa, Alamo was sponsored by Builders Square when they were based in San Antonio. Houston based Meineke was big sponsor of the Texas Bowl. Belk is based in Charlotte.

It's not an always thing but it certainly seems that many these newer bowls that have passed Shreveport mostly had at least a period where they were getting local money that pushed them up the pecking order opening up even bigger deals.

Sort of makes me wonder what would have happened if MAC had cast their lot with Little Rock instead of Montgomery.

TV became the stick point. Montgomery had handed their effort over to ESPN Events and a pre-Christmas ESPN slot was guaranteed. Little Rock balked because they wanted to be post-Christmas and that meant CBSSN was their only option BUT they already had Riceland Foods signed on as title sponsor (Riceland Foods Rice Bowl). The guy who was heading up the effort was very surprised that MAC bailed out for Montgomery because Montgomery was offering what he says was significantly less money. Well it would have to be a crap ton of money before most commissioners pick being on CBSSN over ESPN.

Still there are those who have done OK sticking to their guns. Tucson is doing OK with their bowl because they were adamant that they wanted to be post-Christmas. They turned down a reportedly nice offer from ESPN to take the Poinsettia's slot but their committee is committed to the idea that they can grow organically and eventually get the money up so they grow it into a post-Christmas game that involves the Pac-12. Still a good way from accomplishing that but they are solvent and seem to be growing.


That was one of the many errors made by the AAC with their Miami Beach Bowl. They didnt fund it well and they allowed ESPN to cram it into the ugliest of all ugly broadcast windows. A weekday afternoon at 2pm about 4 days prior to Christmas.

Great example. It's one thing to play a day game on a week day between Christmas and New Years when so many people take that week off. Pre-Christmas weekday games suck and then during work hours is even worse.
08-19-2019 04:44 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
quo vadis Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 30,741
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 752
I Root For: USF/Georgetown
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Post: #248
RE: Independence Bowl issues
(08-19-2019 04:08 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  [quote='quo vadis' pid='16244386' dateline='1566244839']

Quote:and second, being "major league" has nothing to do with bowl viability.

I think you've retreated from this point, acknowledging that the Memphis area has more money than Shreveport.

Not at all. As Memphis is not in any popular or reasonable sense 'major league', and yet has a reasonably thriving bowl game in the Liberty, being major league has nothing to do with bowl viability.

And I've never denied that the Memphis area has more money than Shreveport, a lot of places do.
08-19-2019 06:06 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
johnbragg Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 9,597
Joined: Dec 2011
Reputation: 338
I Root For: St Johns
Location:
Post: #249
RE: Independence Bowl issues
(08-19-2019 06:06 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 04:08 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  [quote='quo vadis' pid='16244386' dateline='1566244839']

Quote:and second, being "major league" has nothing to do with bowl viability.

I think you've retreated from this point, acknowledging that the Memphis area has more money than Shreveport.

Not at all. As Memphis is not in any popular or reasonable sense 'major league',
and yet has a reasonably thriving bowl game in the Liberty, being major league has nothing to do with bowl viability.

I put it to you, Quo, that your definition of "major league" is idiosyncratic. The popular and reasonable definition of "major league" is "has a major league pro sports franchise." That category includes the top 29 metro areas with the exception of
#13 the "Inland Empire", which is part of LA metro. It also includes #31-36, 39-43, 46, 47 and 50. And the one true outlier, Green BAy, #158. But that can reasonably explained by assigning Green Bay to Milwaukee (#39).

Any metric is going to have judgement calls on the borderline, which we have here. The Tidewater metro has a bigger population than the Milwaukee metro, Providence is larger than Jacksonville, OKC or Raleigh. And Buffalo is just behind Hartford and Birmingham. But that's why cities like Oklahoma City pay to poach pro teams from other cities, to tell the world that they're a major league city, a cut above cities like Tulsa or Omaha or Tuscon.

While you were busy deliberately misunderstanding terms, you also missed a very tight correlation between major league cities and sites of P5 bowl games. All but one (Sun Bowl) of the higher payout games are in major league cities.

Setting aside the New Years Six bowls (all in major league cities), the bowls by payout:
Citrus, Orlando Magic
Alamo, San Antonio Spurs
Outback, Tampa Rays, Buccaneers
Holiday, San Diego Padres
Texas, Houston Astros, Rockets, Texans
Camping World, Orlando (2nd bowl)
Music City, Nashville. Titans, Predators
Belk, Charlotte. Panthers, Bobcats (Carolina Hurricanes in same area)
Pinstripe. Yankee Stadium, etc.
Liberty. Memphis Grizzlies
Redbox. San Francisco 49ers, Giants, As, Warriors, Sharks
Sun Bowl. El Paso--exception.
Gator. Jacksonville Jaguars
Vegas. Raiders, Golden Knights
Military. Redskins, Ravens, Orioles, Nationals, Wizards, Capitals
First Responder. Dallas Cowboys, Rangers, Mavericks, Stars
Birmingham.
Mobile AL
Independence
Gasparilla. Tampa (2nd bowl)
New Mexico
Cheez-It. Phoenix (2nd bowl).
Hawaii
Boca Raton. dolphins, Marlins, Heat, Panthers. (2nd bowl)
Boise
New Orleans. Saints, Pelicans (2nd bowl)
Armed Forces Bowl, Dallas, 3rd bowl
Cure bowl, Orlando, 3rd bowl
Quick Lane, Detroit Lions, Tigers,Pistons, Red Wings. Cold northern city
Frisco. Dallas, 4th bowl
Arizona. Tuscon
Camellia. Montgomery AL
Bahamas.
(This post was last modified: 08-19-2019 09:49 PM by johnbragg.)
08-19-2019 09:46 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
panite Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,738
Joined: Feb 2006
Reputation: 108
I Root For: Owls-SC-RU-Navy
Location:
Post: #250
RE: Independence Bowl issues
The Independence Bowl will survive with G5 conferences as anchors and independents like BYU and Army signed on too. The SB, CUSA, and the AAC have teams in the regional that will draw fans to the game. 04-cheers
08-19-2019 09:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
quo vadis Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 30,741
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 752
I Root For: USF/Georgetown
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Post: #251
RE: Independence Bowl issues
(08-19-2019 09:46 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 06:06 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 04:08 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  [quote='quo vadis' pid='16244386' dateline='1566244839']

Quote:and second, being "major league" has nothing to do with bowl viability.

I think you've retreated from this point, acknowledging that the Memphis area has more money than Shreveport.

Not at all. As Memphis is not in any popular or reasonable sense 'major league',
and yet has a reasonably thriving bowl game in the Liberty, being major league has nothing to do with bowl viability.

I put it to you, Quo, that your definition of "major league" is idiosyncratic. The popular and reasonable definition of "major league" is "has a major league pro sports franchise."

I think my earlier points reveal that this is a pedantic idea and in no way comports with the popular imagination on the topic.

E.g., nobody would say that Philly, which has teams in all four major sports, and Memphis, which has one, are both "major league" in any comparable sense. If Memphis is "major league" because it has the 30th most valuable NBA franchise, then we need another term for cities that are truly major, way above Memphis.

So IMO the term "major league" was originally inserted here in an inappropriate way. If the point was to explain from an economic POV why the Liberty Bowl might have been able to up its payout and Shreveport has not, then that could have been accurately stated by saying something like "well, Shreveport is a tiny dump whereas Memphis is a second-tier city and thus has significantly greater economic resources". That would be accurate. But trying to puff up Memphis into something it isn't - major league - wasn't.
08-19-2019 11:43 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
johnbragg Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 9,597
Joined: Dec 2011
Reputation: 338
I Root For: St Johns
Location:
Post: #252
RE: Independence Bowl issues
(08-19-2019 11:43 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 09:46 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 06:06 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 04:08 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  [quote='quo vadis' pid='16244386' dateline='1566244839']

Quote:and second, being "major league" has nothing to do with bowl viability.

I think you've retreated from this point, acknowledging that the Memphis area has more money than Shreveport.

Not at all. As Memphis is not in any popular or reasonable sense 'major league',
and yet has a reasonably thriving bowl game in the Liberty, being major league has nothing to do with bowl viability.

I put it to you, Quo, that your definition of "major league" is idiosyncratic. The popular and reasonable definition of "major league" is "has a major league pro sports franchise."

I think my earlier points reveal that this is a pedantic idea and in no way comports with the popular imagination on the topic.

E.g., nobody would say that Philly, which has teams in all four major sports, and Memphis, which has one, are both "major league" in any comparable sense. If Memphis is "major league" because it has the 30th most valuable NBA franchise, then we need another term for cities that are truly major, way above Memphis.

Yes, a different term is needed if you want to say top 10 (or 20-25?) cities.

Quote:So IMO the term "major league" was originally inserted here in an inappropriate way. If the point was to explain from an economic POV why the Liberty Bowl might have been able to up its payout and Shreveport has not, then that could have been accurately stated by saying something like "well, Shreveport is a tiny dump whereas Memphis is a second-tier city and thus has significantly greater economic resources". That would be accurate. But trying to puff up Memphis into something it isn't - major league - wasn't.

That's a lot of words to convey the same meaning as my original "Memphis is a major league-AAA city". Pretty much everyone else understands the term "major league metropolitan area." It's not my fault you're stuck in the 1940s when there were only 16 major league baseball teams in 10 cities.
08-20-2019 12:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
quo vadis Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 30,741
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 752
I Root For: USF/Georgetown
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Post: #253
RE: Independence Bowl issues
(08-20-2019 12:04 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 11:43 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 09:46 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 06:06 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 04:08 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  I think you've retreated from this point, acknowledging that the Memphis area has more money than Shreveport.

Not at all. As Memphis is not in any popular or reasonable sense 'major league',
and yet has a reasonably thriving bowl game in the Liberty, being major league has nothing to do with bowl viability.

I put it to you, Quo, that your definition of "major league" is idiosyncratic. The popular and reasonable definition of "major league" is "has a major league pro sports franchise."

I think my earlier points reveal that this is a pedantic idea and in no way comports with the popular imagination on the topic.

E.g., nobody would say that Philly, which has teams in all four major sports, and Memphis, which has one, are both "major league" in any comparable sense. If Memphis is "major league" because it has the 30th most valuable NBA franchise, then we need another term for cities that are truly major, way above Memphis.

Yes, a different term is needed if you want to say top 10 (or 20-25?) cities.

Quote:So IMO the term "major league" was originally inserted here in an inappropriate way. If the point was to explain from an economic POV why the Liberty Bowl might have been able to up its payout and Shreveport has not, then that could have been accurately stated by saying something like "well, Shreveport is a tiny dump whereas Memphis is a second-tier city and thus has significantly greater economic resources". That would be accurate. But trying to puff up Memphis into something it isn't - major league - wasn't.

That's a lot of words to convey the same meaning as my original "Memphis is a major league-AAA city". Pretty much everyone else understands the term "major league metropolitan area." It's not my fault you're stuck in the 1940s when there were only 16 major league baseball teams in 10 cities.

I don't think many people would equate the term "second-tier city" (which accurately describes Memphis) and "major league" city. In the popular parlance, a "major league" city is in the top crust.

And if the verbiage didn't matter, you wouldn't have spilled so many words on it yourself.

07-coffee3
08-20-2019 12:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2019 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2019 MyBB Group.