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Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
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Steve1981 Offline
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Post: #1
Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
Think there is a shot, not sure how much, but will the MAC consider an option of adding UConn and UMass for about 10k-50k per university for additional BB inventory and some extra eyeballs on a canned rivalry. Will copy past something did early as on fumes right now.

Don't have faith that a New East Coast Conference will form and will have a media deal that is better than the current A10 5Mill given that the MAC got 10Mill due to their wiliness to play November mid weeks game on ESPN and CUSA got peanuts. It seems possible and now will give my take and will make a reference back to Bob McGovern's article. https://247sports.com/college/massachuse...133179272/

Will support the dame the torpedo's all in push for the AAC with it's high gamble and seems unlikely IMHO. Feel it would be hard to compete in AAC Football and have to make huge capital commitments, which seems to be a stretch. My view is winning matters more than the conference.

Perhaps it's age related as I'm in my 60's now that prefer a more measured, conservative direction of keeping the A10 and make a hard push with UConn as FB only MAC additions that would require a far less than 50% share. It would give us a fairly tight division of:
  • UConn
  • UMass
  • Buffalo
  • Ohio
  • Miami
  • Akron
  • Kent St.
It would give the ability to compete for a conference championship and bowl access. Fits into Ryan Bamford's scheduling philosophy of 9 50-50 games, a P5 and FCS game and is financially responsible.

The MAC pitch in two parts, one is the rationale and second is being financially practical to the MAC and will link the thread so you can see everything in context.

PITCH:
This is not your older brother's, sister's or parent's football only add to get to an even number of teams, with the hope that they might join the MAC as full members, perhaps.

This is adding not one but two football teams, with bb games and taking in the end less than a 50% share. UMass and UConn are old football rivals that dates back to 1897. Two local flagships getting psyched to put one another down, cheer in their demise and want to kick their a$$. You'd be bring in true football rivals that took a break when UConn jumped to FBS a dozen or so years before us.

Our administrations realize fan support starts at home and is added, not harmed by local rivals. We supported UConn's application to Hockey East and will support them now if things go as I hope. Have NO insider knowledge and been out of circulation, just my beliefs. We are a canned rivalry add that logically expands the MAC's markets and footprint, will minimal travel cost of this type of associate membership. This is different in the reduced flight risks. If the MAC lost a team, would think UMass would go all in, but fight tooth and nail to keep UConn football despite the unbalanced schedule. You might not like that, but that is how I'd see it.

We needed to chase the AAC dream and if it's not meant to be then become realistic. Do not think we burnt many bridges leaving, as we did not come along as fast as you'd hope and the pie got so big with CFP cash.

IMHO the AAC has some perils and the big one is that there just be Temple as the closest team, increased travel costs and even greater costs to keep up with the Jones, especially with the stadium's staged improvements. It'd be a better basketball league, but not that much better than the A10 right now and in the medium term. Both UConn and UMass costs has gone up. The A10 is more compact for sports than the AAC and the MAC is the most compact conference for football. It'd be great for us and where can a football only UConn go.

Closing with my opening statement, this is your conference, MAC and what matters to you is the right thing. My point of the canned rivalry is significantly different than ANY football add that you have experimented with. Think in the end of the day, we'd add some value to MACtion.

DOLLARS:
We are just fans posting our thoughts and will agree it will probably be closer to your ideas than mine. Like % and you like carve outs so will play. BruceMcF posted no TV revenue unless it's additive and only that extra amount else give the FB Only the home games and not much out of CFP money as well.

First of all, if we are paying dues, buy-in fees (perhaps ours is reduced since we have bought in once) we need a floor amount. That floor amount could be what independents get from the CFP. Even Indy get a piece. For all universities not named ND, that share is the number of Indy divided into 0.5%.

If TV is for home games, UMass will get the first home game against UConn as we have a lot of games to reschedule and pay for.

We should get the APR cut if our university earns it.

Regarding the performance pool, we should receive a cut if our ranking raises the MAC average.

If there is extra money for making the conference championship game and we make it, we should receive a cut.

Basically saying we need a floor amount, if we help the MAC or earn something, we should get a piece. After all, we are paying conference dues, playing in the league and adding BB inventory.

link: https://csnbbs.com/thread-878028-page-5.html
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2019 09:06 AM by Steve1981.)
06-30-2019 09:03 AM
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Kit-Cat Online
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Post: #2
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
There are advantages of being a big fish in a small pond.

About half of the MAC doesn't have potential winning big in BB and FB but so what.

AAC everyone has athletic potential but too much competition for a G5 conference. That TV deal is big time though with the ABC/CBS exposure.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2019 09:47 AM by Kit-Cat.)
06-30-2019 09:46 AM
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panite Online
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RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(06-30-2019 09:46 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  There are advantages of being a big fish in a small pond.

About half of the MAC doesn't have potential winning big in BB and FB but so what.

AAC everyone has athletic potential but too much competition for a G5 conference. That TV deal is big time though with the ABC/CBS exposure.

UConn sets up a scheduling contract with the ACC for 3-6 games for OBE regional rivals Pitt, Syracuse, BC, and VT, plus Miami for a game in Florida every other year. The rest of the ACC schools move in and out over the years and UConn has a better nugget than using the MAC and CUSA for games other than filler. Set up annual games with BYU, NM ST, Army, and Liberty, schedule an FCS (BE foe Villanova) and a money game or 2 with other P5 schools and UConn can come up with a great independent schedule. Also don't forget Temple and Rutgers for regional play to help fill out the schedule. This of course will take several years to implement but it is not impossible to if UConn stays in the AAC for 2 years to get by the 2020 FB scheduling difficulties. According to the BE contract they have until July 1, 2022 to make the move anyway. 07-coffee3
06-30-2019 10:06 AM
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Post: #4
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
[Image: giphy.gif]

These are questions for the athletic directors, the presidents, and their financial people. In principle, I'd like to see UMass and UConn in the MAC for football. These are good schools academically, it's a fairly logical footprint, and it wouldn't seem possible for this move to hurt us with ESPN. So it seems to me the numbers can be made to work if everyone wants to make them work.

The more important question, perhaps, is whether MAC presidents, athletic directors, and fans can get over the yucky feeling left behind when Marshall, Central Florida, and Temple all left the MAC for what they perceived to be better opportunities.

I don't think that stuff is worth dwelling on, but some clearly still do dwell on that stuff.
06-30-2019 10:14 AM
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Post: #5
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
MAC booted football only UMASS out a few years ago. I thought the reports from early in the week said the MAC had no interest in UConn. Why increase travel costs and lower your conference SOS?
06-30-2019 10:31 AM
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Post: #6
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(06-30-2019 10:31 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  MAC booted football only UMASS out a few years ago. I thought the reports from early in the week said the MAC had no interest in UConn. Why increase travel costs and lower your conference SOS?

Potentially TV money.

The MAC's contract with ESPN is up in 2026. UConn might join as late as 2022 but could be an opportunity to renegotiate the deal upwards.

The AAC just got a new deal, BE is looking to renegotiate upwards. MWC the verdict is still out. But the MAC could come after those deals with those as the new market data points.

But to really make the $$$ work I believe UMass needs to come over in all sports because they have a huge alumni base the ESPN+ would like to get its hands on I bet and if they leave the A10 they can.
06-30-2019 10:42 AM
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Steve1981 Offline
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RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(06-30-2019 10:31 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  MAC booted football only UMASS out a few years ago. I thought the reports from early in the week said the MAC had no interest in UConn. Why increase travel costs and lower your conference SOS?

The reason we left was the previous administration did not want to go all sports, we did not improve as fast as they hoped and we were getting an equal share. This is a very unequal share and is a canned rivalry with some basketball inventory.

(06-30-2019 10:14 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  [Image: giphy.gif]

These are questions for the athletic directors, the presidents, and their financial people. In principle, I'd like to see UMass and UConn in the MAC for football. These are good schools academically, it's a fairly logical footprint, and it wouldn't seem possible for this move to hurt us with ESPN. So it seems to me the numbers can be made to work if everyone wants to make them work.
Thanks, that sounds encouraging. Think the MAC presidents meet quarterly and the next meeting is in August, correct?
The AAC will let us know there intentions about stay at 11 or going to 12 by the end of July.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2019 11:05 AM by Steve1981.)
06-30-2019 10:44 AM
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Post: #8
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
There was a time when it was thought a MAC school had to go to CUSA off all places to be able to become a regular bowl participant and get on TV.

Now its about MAC solidifying itself against the AAC's TV deal. That is where I could see something like UMass all sports being the glue to keep Buffalo and/or Ohio in the MAC long term after another raid in the AAC by 2025. The others are too regional to warrant serious consideration.

UMass will get no AAC consideration. It doesn't have a good fanbase and there is no recruiting potential. Its like New Mexico St with not as good basketball.
06-30-2019 11:08 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(06-30-2019 09:46 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  AAC everyone has athletic potential but too much competition for a G5 conference. That TV deal is big time though with the ABC/CBS exposure.

There's not much evidence of that. In five years, the AAC has gotten the Access bid three times. One of the other times it went to the MWC, the other top G5 conference. Only once has the "big fish/small pond" gotten it.

I also don't think the MAC, SB, or CUSA can do anything about the fact that the AAC can raid them any time it wants. The saving grace is that no team in those three conferences is worth anything near $7m a year so that raid isn't coming, unless the P5 raids the AAC, and I don't see that coming either for exactly the same reason - no AAC school is worth $30m to a P5.

So sure, while anything can happen, the MAC is probably safe from raiding - for the forseeable future.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2019 11:42 AM by quo vadis.)
06-30-2019 11:38 AM
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RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(06-30-2019 11:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-30-2019 09:46 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  AAC everyone has athletic potential but too much competition for a G5 conference. That TV deal is big time though with the ABC/CBS exposure.

There's not much evidence of that. In five years, the AAC has gotten the Access bid three times. One of the other times it went to the MWC, the other top G5 conference. Only once has the "big fish/small pond" gotten it.

I wasn't referring to the access bowl chances. No doubt they are better as the AAC champion.

But what I'm saying is any MAC school that joined would be dwarfed by the other members of the conference in terms of financial backing, potential ect. A good MAC program would function as a small player as opposed to a big player in the MAC.

I don't agree with your opinion that a move to AAC is a no brain decision for MAC/CUSA/SBC because the AAC spends like there is no tomorrow on athletics. Most of G4 for that matter its politically infeasible to drop 4 million on a FB coach.

Obviously there are some like Old Dominion where its a no brainer decision to hop over to the AAC because travel is bad in CUSA as it is. But for many its an automatic decision because of the P5 level (albeit lower tier) budgets in the AAC.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2019 02:55 PM by Kit-Cat.)
06-30-2019 02:51 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(06-30-2019 02:51 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(06-30-2019 11:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-30-2019 09:46 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  AAC everyone has athletic potential but too much competition for a G5 conference. That TV deal is big time though with the ABC/CBS exposure.

There's not much evidence of that. In five years, the AAC has gotten the Access bid three times. One of the other times it went to the MWC, the other top G5 conference. Only once has the "big fish/small pond" gotten it.

I wasn't referring to the access bowl chances. No doubt they are better as the AAC champion.

But what I'm saying is any MAC school that joined would be dwarfed by the other members of the conference in terms of financial backing, potential ect. A good MAC program would function as a small player as opposed to a big player in the MAC.

I don't agree with your opinion that a move to AAC is a no brain decision for MAC/CUSA/SBC because the AAC spends like there is no tomorrow on athletics. Most of G4 for that matter its politically infeasible to drop 4 million on a FB coach.

Obviously there are some like Old Dominion where its a no brainer decision to hop over to the AAC because travel is bad in CUSA as it is. But for many its an automatic decision because of the P5 level (albeit lower tier) budgets in the AAC.

Are you sure? Yes, the AAC schools are fiscally absurd when it comes to athletics, they soak their students to the tune of $25m a year to maintain a facade of "big time", etc. UConn finally sunk under the weight of that.

But, don't MAC schools do pretty much the same?
06-30-2019 04:40 PM
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Post: #12
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(06-30-2019 02:51 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  I don't agree with your opinion that a move to AAC is a no brain decision for MAC/CUSA/SBC because the AAC spends like there is no tomorrow on athletics. Most of G4 for that matter its politically infeasible to drop 4 million on a FB coach.

I doubt Bowling Green would accept an invitation to the AAC. I suppose it is possible the teams in that league might goose home attendance for us, but not much. (Cincinnati would certainly help us in basketball, and potentially in football. Navy might also help in football.) But any bump in fan interest would not come anywhere near paying for the drastically higher travel costs in that league.
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Post: #13
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(06-30-2019 10:06 AM)panite Wrote:  UConn sets up a scheduling contract with the ACC for 3-6 games for OBE regional rivals Pitt, Syracuse, BC, and VT, plus Miami for a game in Florida every other year. The rest of the ACC schools move in and out over the years and UConn has a better nugget than using the MAC and CUSA for games other than filler.

What exactly does the ACC gain from a scheduling contract with UConn's piss-poor football program?

Why would schools like Miami, VT, Clemson, or FSU want to tie up dates on their schedules for a home and home with UConn that could be used for much higher profile programs?


There's been some asinine proposals made on this board but this one has to be in or near the top five.
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RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(06-30-2019 04:40 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-30-2019 02:51 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(06-30-2019 11:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-30-2019 09:46 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  AAC everyone has athletic potential but too much competition for a G5 conference. That TV deal is big time though with the ABC/CBS exposure.

There's not much evidence of that. In five years, the AAC has gotten the Access bid three times. One of the other times it went to the MWC, the other top G5 conference. Only once has the "big fish/small pond" gotten it.

I wasn't referring to the access bowl chances. No doubt they are better as the AAC champion.

But what I'm saying is any MAC school that joined would be dwarfed by the other members of the conference in terms of financial backing, potential ect. A good MAC program would function as a small player as opposed to a big player in the MAC.

I don't agree with your opinion that a move to AAC is a no brain decision for MAC/CUSA/SBC because the AAC spends like there is no tomorrow on athletics. Most of G4 for that matter its politically infeasible to drop 4 million on a FB coach.

Obviously there are some like Old Dominion where its a no brainer decision to hop over to the AAC because travel is bad in CUSA as it is. But for many its an automatic decision because of the P5 level (albeit lower tier) budgets in the AAC.

Are you sure? Yes, the AAC schools are fiscally absurd when it comes to athletics, they soak their students to the tune of $25m a year to maintain a facade of "big time", etc. UConn finally sunk under the weight of that.

But, don't MAC schools do pretty much the same?

No. I figured you would know this.

The MAC these days pays right about at x2 the going rate of FCS conferences in FB & BB for staff. They pay 150-300k for a BB coach an the MAC is paying 300-600k for BB coaches for example.

Its enough money for the MAC to be a step up for those FCS leagues but they aren't attempting by any means to run with the P5 leagues. One coach in the MAC makes over 1 million dollars but he's won a MAC FB Championship.

AAC is trying to compete directly with the P5 on salaries and facilities. The MAC as a rule doesn't build anything unless a big donor is uncovered and from there it becomes a project for the giving club. Totally different philosophy on how to finance facilities.
06-30-2019 09:58 PM
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Post: #15
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
We all can agree that the MAC inflates its attendance numbers. There is not much disputing that.

The MAC is also inflating its athletic budget by including the entire student activity fee in its budget when only about a quarter is actually going to spending on sports. The net sports subsidy per student is only in the 200 or 300 dollar per year range.

AAC budget numbers are inflated on facility debt payments. MAC again doesn't have a lot of top shelf facilities because they don't issue bonds to build them.
06-30-2019 10:25 PM
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RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(06-30-2019 10:31 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  MAC booted football only UMASS out a few years ago. I thought the reports from early in the week said the MAC had no interest in UConn.

They booted UMass as a solo FB-only member making for unbalanced FB conferences. And that was after offering an all-sports spot to UMass, which UMass turned down.

And since this is not something for the MAC to pursue, then even if they are willing to hear UConn/UMass out on whether they are coming with an offer that is interesting enough to listen too ... they'd still say they have no interest.

Quote: Why increase travel costs and lower your conference SOS?

For the increase the conference SOS for men's BBall ... two home and two away OOC games from each of the pair. To add a little on top of the Temple/UMass deal, make that both men and women's BBall. Four men's BBall games and four women's BBall games in exchange for eight FB games.

The MAC landing the Access Bowl is not going to be affected by "football strength of schedule", but I have seen the MAC land on the wrong side of the NIT at-large bubble a number of times, and it's only going to start landing on the right side on a more regular basis if it does what it can to strengthen the BBall strength of schedule. Obviously this would not do it all on its own, but this is one of several steps it might take.

It's not a big increase in travel cost ... it's not all-sports, it's just ONE New England trip for each Eastern school, in place of one Western Division trip. For the western schools, it's just one New England trip every second year.

Big Yes vote would be Buffalo, big No vote might be Bowling Green (putting Bowling Green in the West is part of the inducement to the Western schools, after all).

Also, none of this "all in / all out" stuff if one of the two schools leaves ... the MAC invited UMass up, to balance Temple, Temple left, when presented with the all-in/all-out, UMass picked out. So no sharing of the existing MAC revenues. They get the Access Bowl school share if they win the Access Bowl race (yeah, I know, but agreements cover all eventualities). If ESPN offers to pay for the new inventory, give the new schools what ESPN pays up to 70% of a full share (but it won't be that high), otherwise leave them with their home rights.

Unlike Temple, there is no dream here of landing UConn all-sports, so a pure FB affiliate contract with the pair, both start the same time, big exit fee for the leaving school, the affiliation agreement with the other school expires two years after one of the two leaves.

On the original question ... on terms like these, maybe yes, maybe no. I reckon Buffalo, Kent and Akron would be yes votes, Bowling Green possibly a no vote, EMU, Miami, Ball State maybe lean-no, the rest maybe from neutral to lean-yes.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2019 04:36 AM by BruceMcF.)
07-01-2019 04:18 AM
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Post: #17
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
So the MAC is going to consider adding two of the worst FBall programs/fanbases/attendance/recruiting areas in exchange for a few bball games? Even after kicking out one of these exact schools (and UConn Fball is essentially UMass) a few years ago? The Internet wins again. Some of u need to take off the tinfoil hat.
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Post: #18
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(07-01-2019 05:17 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  So the MAC is going to consider adding two of the worst FBall programs/fanbases/attendance/recruiting areas in exchange for a few bball games? Even after kicking out one of these exact schools (and UConn Fball is essentially UMass) a few years ago?

You are cherry picking. First, the MAC went for Temple on it's own and then invited UMass to transition from FCS. After Temple got the invitation back into the old Big East, then when they had an opportunity, they invited UMass to join, and if UMass had elected to join the MAC all-sports, the MAC was reportedly prepared to invite JMU to upgrade from FCS as well.

When Temple left, there was no compelling "Temple substitute" to balance the divisions and to bring appealing BBall affiliate games from one every six years to one every three years available when Temple left, and what the MAC had already worked out when Temple was invited is that just one doesn't work.

As far as recruiting, Great Lakes Universities have been recruiting students from the Northeast for over a century. It's not like it's a new idea. Now, as far as football recruiting, New England sucks as a P5 recruiting ground, but then MAC schools do not tend to be in the hunt for many of the recruits that are on the radar of P5 schools.

Quote: The Internet wins again. Some of u need to take off the tinfoil hat.

But this deal can be better than the old one.

First, there would be no staggered start. Both of the affiliates would join the same year. If one leaves (and pays a hefty exit fee), the other could have a two year grace period before being cut off. We would actually get the benefit that, due to the old Big East being raided, we never experienced in the Temple/UMass deal.

Second, since the MAC was looking for a 14th when it invited UMass, it gave more generous terms than it has to give an existing FBS independent looking for a conference home. The exit terms can be stricter, and the revenue sharing can be non-existent.

And third, since it's UConn and in the last several years the MAC has had a number of reasonably competitive Women's BBall teams, they could stretch the demand for affiliate games to Women's BBall. You may well scoff, but that may well be enough to tip one or two schools from neutral to "yes". (Note that it was UConn that knocked Buffalo out of the second round last year ... with a better SOS they might not have been a 10 seed).
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2019 06:53 AM by BruceMcF.)
07-01-2019 06:35 AM
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Post: #19
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
No. We don't want your worthless programs leeching off of our conference. Go back to the CAA where you belong.
07-01-2019 07:47 AM
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I Root For: Bowling Green
Location: Chicagoland

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Post: #20
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(07-01-2019 06:35 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  And third, since it's UConn and in the last several years the MAC has had a number of reasonably competitive Women's BBall teams, they could stretch the demand for affiliate games to Women's BBall. You may well scoff, but that may well be enough to tip one or two schools from neutral to "yes". (Note that it was UConn that knocked Buffalo out of the second round last year ... with a better SOS they might not have been a 10 seed).

I imagine this could help Bowling Green look more favorably on such a deal. We have a long tradition of success in women's basketball, and I expect we will be competitive again in a couple of years. The community would be electrified to get a chance to play the UConn women at the Stroh Center.
07-01-2019 08:07 AM
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