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Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
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templefootballfan Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
I sit on the other side of fence
MAC did great job with Marshall, UCF, Temple & Mass
MAC also benefited from arrangement

There is no way MAC can not take Conn & Mass
Let say SNY pays TV
Arrange BB, WBB, hockey, baseball games
Help with tues/Wed games
Maybe Army eventually joins
A lot of college students in New England
07-01-2019 10:14 AM
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Steve1981 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
templefootballfan, thanks and was giving you the benefit of doubt until you mentioned Army eventually joins.

Have no idea if the universities are even soliciting a bid to join, but it was my hope. I'm pro MAC bias, which does NOT represent the majority of UMass fans and dame, UConn fans have a stick up their a$$ talking about scheduling 4-5-6 P5 teams and raising their recruiting.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2019 10:57 AM by Steve1981.)
07-01-2019 10:52 AM
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templefootballfan Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
I said maybe & meant way down the road on Army
KitCat nailed it, there's a lot of potential ESPN+ subscribes in Mass
07-01-2019 12:19 PM
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Steve1981 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
Been thinking about the MAC with regard to CFP money. With more and more universities going Independent splitting the 0.5% for all Indy not named ND goes down. The addition of UConn will reduce the split from 310k to around 260k. Heck we could go with a 4 year term contract for almost no Media and CFP money and be about even, with the 300k APR money. The MAC gains some BB inventory and Bowling Green goes back to the west division. The down side is the UConn and UMass game will be moved to mid week for ESPN rivalry week.

Perhaps we hurt the MAC average ranking, but UConn was in the Fiesta Bowl recently and we show some signs of life. We have beat BYU in their house, UConn in their house and beat the Sun Belt conference champs at home in 2OT, App State. We've also are in progress with 10M stadium improvements and an IPF.
07-08-2019 08:28 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
The whole reason to make a deal is so both the MAC and the additional schools come out with more $$$.

UConn could "double dip" with BE money and MAC money. MAC money may only be 3 million now (CFP+TV) but in another five years it could be 7 or 8 million dollars.

MAC schools of course are not pushing the accelerator on coaching salaries and only building facilities on money they've raised. The extra revenue is going to be almost enough to cover the full operating expenses for a whole MAC athletic department (not including salaries, stipends or schollies). For a mid major its a lot of money.
07-08-2019 09:26 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
Just to show how little the expenses of a MAC program actually are I broke down some of the numbers from the equity in athletics website.

Men's Operating Expenses: 2,247,036
Women's Operating Expenses: 1,161,912
Recruiting: 814,750
Men's HC: 1,066,359
Men's Asst: 1,569,020
Women's HC: 825,790
Women's Asst: 632,176

EMU is spent only 8,217,043 on athletics outside of scholarship cost.

Revenue between CFP, TV, NCAA, Marketing, Ticket Sales, Multimedia rights probably adds up to 5 million right now at EMU. Go to other places in the MAC and the income is higher.

Increase the CFP/TV money by 3 or 4 million and athletics is basically self sufficient.

That is why I can't imagine UMass trying to bribe its way into the MAC without taking a cut of the CFP money when 2 or 3 million is a huge portion of the budget. For a place like ND its not a factor. The primary reason for a mid major program wanting in the MAC is for that $$$.
07-08-2019 09:55 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(06-30-2019 11:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-30-2019 09:46 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  AAC everyone has athletic potential but too much competition for a G5 conference. That TV deal is big time though with the ABC/CBS exposure.

There's not much evidence of that. In five years, the AAC has gotten the Access bid three times. One of the other times it went to the MWC, the other top G5 conference. Only once has the "big fish/small pond" gotten it.

I also don't think the MAC, SB, or CUSA can do anything about the fact that the AAC can raid them any time it wants. The saving grace is that no team in those three conferences is worth anything near $7m a year so that raid isn't coming, unless the P5 raids the AAC, and I don't see that coming either for exactly the same reason - no AAC school is worth $30m to a P5.

So sure, while anything can happen, the MAC is probably safe from raiding - for the forseeable future.

I don't want to send you into a trump like rant,,,,but the AAC has been in 4 of the last 6 ny6 bowls, and before you say that the 1st one they still had the BCS/p5 auto-bid or whatever crazy tantrum. UCF would have gotten the bid anyway based on the rankings and at the time they were officially in the AAC. 05-nono05-nono05-ban
07-08-2019 11:51 PM
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Steve1981 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
Kit-Cat. get your head out of the cat nip.
07-09-2019 07:24 AM
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Post: #29
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(07-08-2019 09:55 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Revenue between CFP, TV, NCAA, Marketing, Ticket Sales, Multimedia rights probably adds up to 5 million right now at EMU. Go to other places in the MAC and the income is higher.

Increase the CFP/TV money by 3 or 4 million and athletics is basically self sufficient.

EMU increasing its CFP/TV money by 3 or 4 millions means EMU increasing its TV money by 3 or 4 million, because there is no increase in the base CFP tier from adding schools past 10, and no benefit in the performance tiers from adding UConn.

And the reporting on the ESPN contract is that it was worth an average of $10m/year over the 10 year extension (and the MAC is now in the ten year extension period).

Even without revenue sharing with UConn/UMass, adding $3m-$4m per school per year amounts to adding $36m to $48m to a $10m deal.

Quote: That is why I can't imagine UMass trying to bribe its way into the MAC without taking a cut of the CFP money when 2 or 3 million is a huge portion of the budget.

And I don't credit this statement. Anyone able to imagine adding UConn and UMass FB games plus a handful of MAC-hosted MBB will boost the total value of the MAC deal by more than 300% has the ability to imagine quite a bit more than the ordinary fan.

Quote: The primary reason for a mid major program wanting in the MAC is for that $$$.

So, no, the imagined money is a fiction of Kit-Kat's imagination, and as such, has no impact whatsoever on any independent program's desire to get a scheduling agreement with or FB-only associate membership in the MAC FB competition.

If there ends up being an interest ... especially as the challenges of playing as an independent start are experienced by the AD staff ... it would be about reducing the net cost of competing as an independent ... in outlays as well as in multiple-sport contracts ... of getting the football games and getting some form of access to the MAC Bowls. Full access, if joining as a member, some limited form of back-up access otherwise.

If the MAC had to share any of it's existing revenues to "attract" UConn, the only sensible answer would be to reject such a deal and stay with the status quo.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2019 08:45 AM by BruceMcF.)
07-09-2019 08:13 AM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(07-09-2019 08:13 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(07-08-2019 09:55 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Revenue between CFP, TV, NCAA, Marketing, Ticket Sales, Multimedia rights probably adds up to 5 million right now at EMU. Go to other places in the MAC and the income is higher.

Increase the CFP/TV money by 3 or 4 million and athletics is basically self sufficient.

EMU increasing its CFP/TV money by 3 or 4 millions means EMU increasing its TV money by 3 or 4 million, because there is no increase in the base CFP tier from adding schools past 10, and no benefit in the performance tiers from adding UConn.

And the reporting on the ESPN contract is that it was worth an average of $10m/year over the 10 year extension (and the MAC is now in the ten year extension period).

Even without revenue sharing with UConn/UMass, adding $3m-$4m per school per year amounts to adding $36m to $48m to a $10m deal.

I'm factoring in CFP expansion with at least x2 CFP money AND renegotiating upwards with ESPN to the 25-30 million range.

Longer term potential. We'll have to see how the MWC's numbers come in first.

Could ESPN consider a renegotiation w/ expansion and mull it over for a year or two to finally say "sure your contract is up in a couple of years anyways" The only way a UConn deal makes any sense if ESPN is willing to pay up $$$.

This idea that UConn would join for no money and that the MAC would not get an increase with ESPN that you float doesn't make sense for anyone involved.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2019 08:25 AM by Kit-Cat.)
07-09-2019 08:24 AM
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Steve1981 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(07-08-2019 08:28 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Been thinking about the MAC with regard to CFP money. With more and more universities going Independent splitting the 0.5% for all Indy not named ND goes down. The addition of UConn will reduce the split from 310k to around 260k. Heck we could go with a 4 year term contract for almost no Media and CFP money and be about even, with the 300k APR money. The MAC gains some BB inventory and Bowling Green goes back to the west division. The down side is the UConn and UMass game will be moved to mid week for ESPN rivalry week.

Perhaps we hurt the MAC average ranking, but UConn was in the Fiesta Bowl recently and we show some signs of life. We have beat BYU in their house, UConn in their house and beat the Sun Belt conference champs at home in 2OT, App State. We've also are in progress with 10M stadium improvements and an IPF.

BruceMcF is mostly correct, but the idea of a 4 year contract is because the no CFP and Media money is a tough pill that we will swallow. After 4 years the parties can reassess. Perhaps the MAC will be close enough to the renegotiation of the media deal and that pill of almost no media and CFP money will get smaller. Short term is to get bowl access and for me personally, back in the MAC.

So kit-cat what the money is now does not matter, what it will be in the future makes no sense in creating figures out of that mad hat. In summary the four year contract is low risk and low reward to all. The bowl access is the prize for bb inventory.
07-09-2019 08:36 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(07-09-2019 08:24 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  I'm factoring in CFP expansion with at least x2 CFP money AND renegotiating upwards with ESPN to the 25-30 million range.

I'm factoring in the fact that if the first happens, there still won't be any incremental growth to it due to UConn and partner (whomever they may be) being a FB-only associate, so it's still a hard "no" on sharing that with FB-only associates who do not expand on it in any way.

"Renegotiating with ESPN" to add $25m-$30m only results in editing the observation that it is absurd to believe that adding UConn and any other actually available school will add more than 300% to the ESPN deal to the observation that it's also absurd to believe that it will add more than 200% to the ESPN deal.

Quote: Longer term potential. We'll have to see how the MWC's numbers come in first.

Quote: Could ESPN consider a renegotiation w/ expansion and mull it over for a year or two to finally say "sure your contract is up in a couple of years anyways" The only way a UConn deal makes any sense if ESPN is willing to pay up $$$.

You are making the tail wag the dog in your argument ... if the only way a UConn deal makes any sense is if ESPN is willing to pay up $$$, then the only non-fantasy based conclusion on your premises the deal simply doesn't make any sense. Which would be fine ... there's no reason to believe that every conceivable deal makes sense.

Quote: This idea that UConn would join for no money and that the MAC would not get an increase with ESPN that you float doesn't make sense for anyone involved.

It costs money and for some schools also costs games in other sports to put together an independent schedule. You have to pay for games, you have to put together multi-sport agreements that your other programs would rather not do (or else they would already be scheduling those games), and you get next to nothing from the CFP pool. Now the more independent schools there are, the easier it gets, but it's still nowhere near as easy as it was when I was in college.

There are now enough independent schools that UConn could probably do fine with a three game scheduling agreement similar to what Army once had with the MAC. Even if UConn can get it's FB program on the mend, it still may be a few years yet before the limited access to bowl games is an actual factor.

As to what is in it for the MAC ... that depends on what the offer from UConn and partner is. If they can't put together a package that gets 2/3 of MAC Presidents behind the package, then the answer is simply no.

But it's not going to be driven by a 200%+ increase in media money from ESPN, negotiated halfway through a decade long contract extension.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2019 09:08 AM by BruceMcF.)
07-09-2019 09:05 AM
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utpotts Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
This thread has turned into a KitKat, KittonHead and Airport KC fantasy thread, I’m just waiting on another one of his screen names to chime in.
07-12-2019 03:21 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
I cannot fathom the MAC agreeing to allow UConn or UMass to join its league for football only in exchange for a handful of basketball games each year. That seems like a ridiculous idea to me.

Also, there’s no way the ACC schools would agree to a formal scheduling agreement with UConn football. I suppose it’s possible that Syracuse might agree to a brief series, but Boston College isn’t doing it and neither is Pitt. I guess it’s possible that West Virginia or Rutgers could do it, but I don’t think that’s very likely either.

What would they actually get out of that type of arrangement?

Please don’t misunderstand me here. UConn is definitely doing the right thing by defecting to the Big East from the AAC – there’s just no doubt about it. People arguing that this is going to kill their football program just don’t realize that their football program is already dead. This move is to save their bell cow men’s and women’s basketball programs.

However, football is going to have to be creative. They’re going to have really crazy schedules for the next several years. There’s going to be all kinds of series with teams like Middle Tennessee State and Marshall and Old Dominion and New Mexico and all the rest of it. Hopefully, they’ll be able to cobble together a few series with P5 programs too — but even those will be random.

For the next five or six years their schedule is going to be very random. However, the truth is that to most of their fans, the AAC schedule was pretty random anyway. Do you think the care any more about games vs. Tulsa than they would a match up versus Troy? Do you think East Carolina inspires any more passion in them than a game versus Marshall would?

It’s all the same to them – it really is. However, now they get to play big basketball games again against teams they really do care about like St. John’s, Villanova, Georgetown and Providence. That is WAAAY more appealing to them than series against Tulane, Memphis, Houston and SMU.

Most of all, now they’re playing their conference tournament at a jam-packed MSG, not a third full FedExForum in Memphis.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2019 04:15 PM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
07-12-2019 03:55 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(07-12-2019 03:55 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I cannot fathom the MAC agreeing to allow UConn or UMass to join its league for football only in exchange for a handful of basketball games each year. That seems like a ridiculous idea to me.

Also, there’s no way the ACC schools would agree to a formal scheduling agreement with UConn football. I suppose it’s possible that Syracuse might agree to a brief series, but Boston College isn’t doing it and neither is Pitt. I guess it’s possible that West Virginia or Rutgers could do it, but I don’t think that’s very likely either.

What would they actually get out of that type of arrangement?

Please don’t misunderstand me here. UConn is definitely doing the right thing by defecting to the Big East from the AAC – there’s just no doubt about it. People arguing that this is going to kill their football program just don’t realize that their football program is already dead. This move is to save their bell cow men’s and women’s basketball programs.

However, football is going to have to be creative. They’re going to have really crazy schedules for the next several years. There’s going to be all kinds of series with teams like Middle Tennessee State and Marshall and Old Dominion and New Mexico and all the rest of it. Hopefully, they’ll be able to cobble together a few series with P5 programs too — but even those will be random.

For the next five or six years their schedule is going to be very random. However, the truth is that to most of their fans, the AAC schedule was pretty random anyway. Do you think the care any more about games vs. Tulsa than they would a match up versus Troy? Do you think East Carolina inspires any more passion in them than a game versus Marshall would?

It’s all the same to them – it really is. However, now they get to play big basketball games again against teams they really do care about like St. John’s, Villanova, Georgetown and Providence. That is WAAAY more appealing to them than series against Tulane, Memphis, Houston and SMU.

Most of all, now they’re playing their conference tournament at a jam-packed MSG, not a third full FedExForum in Memphis.

Perhaps not--but its interesting its always the celler dwellers used for this kind of example. Granted, mediocre teams from far away probably dont get the UConn fans excited. However, most any fans can get up for a game against ranked teams.

Since AAC football began in 2013, UConn has played host to just 6 ranked teams. All 6 teams that visited UConn were there because of UConns AAC conference schedule. UConn played a total of 12 ranked teams home and away during that period. The UConn AAC schedule accounted for 9 of them. They arent just going to be replacing Tulane, ECU, and Tulsa. There were some good games on those conference schedules as well---and the fact that not a single ranked team from outside the AAC visited Hartford during those 5 years doesnt bode particularly well for replacing those better games as an indy.

Now, truth be told---I think UConn made the right choice--but I think its preposterous to act as if it wont make any difference for football. In fact, my feeling is the administration didnt care how it affected football because they dont think there is any real future for UConn football---They are basically throwing in the towel on that program.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2019 05:16 PM by Attackcoog.)
07-12-2019 05:10 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(06-30-2019 05:36 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  
(06-30-2019 02:51 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  I don't agree with your opinion that a move to AAC is a no brain decision for MAC/CUSA/SBC because the AAC spends like there is no tomorrow on athletics. Most of G4 for that matter its politically infeasible to drop 4 million on a FB coach.

I doubt Bowling Green would accept an invitation to the AAC. I suppose it is possible the teams in that league might goose home attendance for us, but not much. (Cincinnati would certainly help us in basketball, and potentially in football. Navy might also help in football.) But any bump in fan interest would not come anywhere near paying for the drastically higher travel costs in that league.

But NIU, WMU, Toledo, Miami, Ohio or Buffalo certainly would. And other than NIU, their budgets are all in the $30-$40 million range, just below the bottom of the AAC.
07-12-2019 05:38 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
The MAC is making less than $2 million a year from TV and CFP. It wouldn't take much to improve their deal. UMass and UConn might just do that. The CFP is $85 million for the G5, which is $17 million per conference. But they allocate more to the more successful conferences-with a ratio of-5/15, 4/15, 3/15, 2/15 and 1/15. Realistically, the MAC will almost always be one of the bottom 3. So 2/15 of $85 million is less than $1 million per school. The TV is $8 million per year or $667k per school.
07-12-2019 05:48 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
My apologies if this has already but here is my proposal:

The MAC adds UMass and UConn as FB affiliates
UMass and UConn don't get any playoff or media money but they do retain their home game tv rights
07-12-2019 05:53 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(07-12-2019 05:53 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  My apologies if this has already but here is my proposal:

The MAC adds UMass and UConn as FB affiliates
UMass and UConn don't get any playoff or media money but they do retain their home game tv rights

Those two also get access to MAC bowl slots. I don't mind letting them in if their portion of CFP/TV revenue generated by the conference is kept to a minimum. Scheduling deals with both men's and women's basketball would be required. If UConn hoops returns to where it was before in the Big East, it would certainly help the MAC's out-of-conference strength of schedule. While the chances are small, this could help with the goal of the league getting multiple bids to the Big Dance. The agreement wouldn't need any incentives for full membership like with UMass previously. You're in just for football, nothing else now or later.
07-14-2019 04:11 PM
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Would the MAC accept a UConn and UMass package with minimum TV or CFP Money
(07-12-2019 05:53 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  My apologies if this has already but here is my proposal:

The MAC adds UMass and UConn as FB affiliates
UMass and UConn don't get any playoff or media money but they do retain their home game tv rights


Devils advocate: How does that benefit the MAC?

It adds travel distance (albeit minimal) and they play teams in their region less and neither UConn or UMass would travel well.

What can the two offer them that improves the MAC financially or competitively?


I think adding the following to not taking playoff money-

- pooling home tv rights but due to weak leverage taking a very small cut. That way if either gets a big home game a network wants the MAC benefits
-Agreeing to hoops road game or 1 for 2 agreements might provide a tangible benefit monetarily

Right now any league holds the cards over them since neither program is competitively strong and UConn has a massive scheduling problem staring them in the face. This is doubly true for the regionally decent MAC
07-14-2019 05:31 PM
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