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Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
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TheBigEastSucks Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
(06-30-2019 05:38 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Old Dominion fits the geography and rounds out your division but I don’t see the impetus at the moment. Going West doesn’t make sense unless it’s BYU. UMass makes no sense.

The only ones that make sense are BYU football only then Dayton/vcu basketball only.

Option 2 would be BYU, Boise, CSU,SDSU and Air Force. Create divisions to avoid travel cost. There is not one team in cusa, Mac or sun belt worth even talking about.

Option 3 Dayton vcu basketball only stay at 11 for football for now
06-30-2019 07:33 AM
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bit_9 Offline
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Post: #42
Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
Social media presence a thing? Curious if that plays into some sort of popularity quotient. # of Twitter and Facebook traffic and followers? With the transition to online consumption of media that makes sense to be a part of the look but not something that may or may not move the needle much.
06-30-2019 08:26 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
The point with Rice being, why tap them to be at your level when they are irrelevant in the major sports and don’t add territory? Buffalo, yeah, the success is too recent, not sustained, and the location would be nightmarish if they’re your new basement ever.

I do think the state of Virginia may seem some action in a potential upheaval.

And, tangentially, how the MAC responded, maybe this finally activates James Madison’s FBS move.
06-30-2019 09:03 AM
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Big Frog II Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
Who does ESPN think is the best candidate. That is the bottom line.
06-30-2019 10:02 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
(06-30-2019 10:02 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  Who does ESPN think is the best candidate. That is the bottom line.

Big lesson to be learned by what the Big East did and what the AAC must face; a lesson about control.

The Big East wanted UConn. It didn’t need them. So, if the AAC is going to listen to ESPN rather than pursuing what might actually make it better regardless?

I don’t disagree that the AAC will just listen to ESPN. But, we may as well start the countdown for the B12-AAC scraps merger now.
06-30-2019 11:52 AM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
(06-30-2019 11:52 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(06-30-2019 10:02 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  Who does ESPN think is the best candidate. That is the bottom line.

Big lesson to be learned by what the Big East did and what the AAC must face; a lesson about control.

The Big East wanted UConn. It didn’t need them. So, if the AAC is going to listen to ESPN rather than pursuing what might actually make it better regardless?

I don’t disagree that the AAC will just listen to ESPN. But, we may as well start the countdown for the B12-AAC scraps merger now.

Who actually makes the AAC "better" though (and better doesn't just mean a better football program than UCONN currently)? No one can seriously point to an addition for the AAC that would accept that's a no brainer in the way that UCONN back to the Big East is.
06-30-2019 12:59 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
(06-30-2019 12:59 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(06-30-2019 11:52 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(06-30-2019 10:02 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  Who does ESPN think is the best candidate. That is the bottom line.

Big lesson to be learned by what the Big East did and what the AAC must face; a lesson about control.

The Big East wanted UConn. It didn’t need them. So, if the AAC is going to listen to ESPN rather than pursuing what might actually make it better regardless?

I don’t disagree that the AAC will just listen to ESPN. But, we may as well start the countdown for the B12-AAC scraps merger now.

Who actually makes the AAC "better" though (and better doesn't just mean a better football program than UCONN currently)? No one can seriously point to an addition for the AAC that would accept that's a no brainer in the way that UCONN back to the Big East is.

Yup. My feeling is I'd add VCU as a non-football member and leave it at that. VCU adds value and makes the league better. VCU replaces the lost depth in basketball. Not replacing the UConn football team could be considered addition through subtraction.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2019 01:59 PM by Attackcoog.)
06-30-2019 01:52 PM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
(06-30-2019 01:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-30-2019 12:59 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(06-30-2019 11:52 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(06-30-2019 10:02 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  Who does ESPN think is the best candidate. That is the bottom line.

Big lesson to be learned by what the Big East did and what the AAC must face; a lesson about control.

The Big East wanted UConn. It didn’t need them. So, if the AAC is going to listen to ESPN rather than pursuing what might actually make it better regardless?

I don’t disagree that the AAC will just listen to ESPN. But, we may as well start the countdown for the B12-AAC scraps merger now.

Who actually makes the AAC "better" though (and better doesn't just mean a better football program than UCONN currently)? No one can seriously point to an addition for the AAC that would accept that's a no brainer in the way that UCONN back to the Big East is.

Yup. My feeling is I'd add VCU and leave it at that. VCU add value and makes the league better. VCU replaces the lost depth in basketball. Not replacing the UConn football team could be considered addition through subtraction.

Yeah VCU is the only addition that I think would accept that does make the league tangibly better. I do question if it's worth adding them if we aren't adding anyone FB only. 11 in hoops really isn't any kind of issue at all the way 11 in football is. If adding them in hoops and adding no one in football would convince ESPN to keep the deal exactly the same and not prorating it downward at all then sure it makes sense.
06-30-2019 01:59 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
(06-30-2019 01:59 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(06-30-2019 01:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-30-2019 12:59 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(06-30-2019 11:52 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(06-30-2019 10:02 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  Who does ESPN think is the best candidate. That is the bottom line.

Big lesson to be learned by what the Big East did and what the AAC must face; a lesson about control.

The Big East wanted UConn. It didn’t need them. So, if the AAC is going to listen to ESPN rather than pursuing what might actually make it better regardless?

I don’t disagree that the AAC will just listen to ESPN. But, we may as well start the countdown for the B12-AAC scraps merger now.

Who actually makes the AAC "better" though (and better doesn't just mean a better football program than UCONN currently)? No one can seriously point to an addition for the AAC that would accept that's a no brainer in the way that UCONN back to the Big East is.

Yup. My feeling is I'd add VCU and leave it at that. VCU add value and makes the league better. VCU replaces the lost depth in basketball. Not replacing the UConn football team could be considered addition through subtraction.

Yeah VCU is the only addition that I think would accept that does make the league tangibly better. I do question if it's worth adding them if we aren't adding anyone FB only. 11 in hoops really isn't any kind of issue at all the way 11 in football is. If adding them in hoops and adding no one in football would convince ESPN to keep the deal exactly the same and not prorating it downward at all then sure it makes sense.

To me, the move would simply recognize the facts on the ground. The league is better with VCU than without. On the other hand--losing UConn football arguably makes the league better. My sense is adding a warm body just to avoid some temporary scheduling headaches is short sighted. Adding VCU doesnt impact the leagues ability to add a football only or a full member later on down the road.

The only school that fits institutionally and might marginally add value is CSU. To me, CSU is less about it's actual present day football/basketball value and more about a long term strategic play for eventually developing a valuable western presence with Boise, AF and possibly even BYU.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2019 02:08 PM by Attackcoog.)
06-30-2019 02:07 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
The problem with Rice is that you are adding another Tulsa and Tulane with hardly no fan support at all. ESPN wants to show games of teams with butts in the stand. ODU fits the picture in the east. BYU and MWC are too far west, and Navy wants to be in the west. The school that needs to replace UConn. for all sports have to be on the east. ODU do have better fan support even if they are losing. Moving to the AAC might help bring better players to ODU for all sports. Only ODU and UTSA are the only start up programs that have beaten P5 schools. They are better than what their records are showing.
06-30-2019 02:18 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
(06-29-2019 03:39 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(06-29-2019 08:22 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(06-29-2019 01:11 AM)esayem Wrote:  I think location matters quite a bit here. Yes, being on an island is not ideal (UConn just left and they were an island), but the candidate shouldn’t encroach on a member program and cause a bit too much competition. Unless, that team doesn’t recruit the same type of student athlete. For instance, having North Texas or UTSA would be more detrimental to Houston than Rice.

UAB, Southern Miss, and Rice stand out to me mainly due to their central location and history with current members. Rice has unlimited potential if they agree to spend a certain amount on their major sports. The football coach already makes a mil/year. They have three legit trophy games within the conference, plus Navy and Tulane would support them.

ODU and Marshall are interesting, but I wonder how ECU feels about ODU and Cincinnati about Marshall.

Although Marshall wins a lot it seems, small town small airport.
Virginia Beach, Newport, Hampton that is a metro area of 1.7 Million. And is a gold mine for football recruiting. Everyone around there has players from there on their team, UVA, UNC, ECU, NC State, VTech etc., everyone recruits there. ODU would have to get better, more consistent within the program. Lots of upside.

I think the AAC stays at 11, if they get the waiver or whatever is required to play a CCG.

Right. Cincinnati has never shared a conference with Marshall, as far as I know. I just don’t see that happening. I would place ODU over Marshall.

On another note, there is a giant naval base in Norfolk. I imagine Navy games would be standing room only.

But how does that benefit the AAC?
06-30-2019 03:05 PM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
(06-29-2019 09:28 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-29-2019 06:21 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  ... while Buffalo seems trendy, does a mostly southern conference want late fall and winter trips up to Buffalo?

While I am more than a little skeptical about whether Buffalo would be considered ... in part for the above reason ...

... at the very least, if Buffalo was being considered on the back of the recent BBall success, you'd wait to see if the BBall success continues at the same level under the next coach.

Also, Buffalo would need to spend significant money on upgrading their stadium. I don't see the money to do it.
07-01-2019 09:56 AM
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bigredmachine Offline
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RE: Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
The most logical addition would be NIU. Adds the Chicago market for TV. Very successful football program over the past 20 years. Illinois's financial problems have limited spending on higher education, but the new governor is addressing that and I think NIU's future is much brighter than it was recently.
07-01-2019 10:06 AM
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RE: Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
(07-01-2019 10:06 AM)bigredmachine Wrote:  The most logical addition would be NIU. Adds the Chicago market for TV. Very successful football program over the past 20 years. Illinois's financial problems have limited spending on higher education, but the new governor is addressing that and I think NIU's future is much brighter than it was recently.

I think the most logical addition is ..... nobody, as ESPN isn't going to want to pay $7m for NIU, VCU, ODU, and any other Us that have been mentioned. Or for my personal favorite if we did add someone - USM.

If the AAC does go to 12, it might be if they can't change the CCG rules that have been discussed around here.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2019 10:26 AM by quo vadis.)
07-01-2019 10:26 AM
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Side Show Joe Offline
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RE: Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
(06-28-2019 11:30 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  From the AAC's (Big East Football's) first go-around, markets were deemed the priority (even over on-field success). After UConn's departure, and the assumed continued goal of an eventual guaranteed NY6 bowl access, the AAC needs to find the right football candidate that can slide in and continue building the football brand of the American. Thankfully, geography is not a huge importance - since the AAC already spans half the country, and Memphis can easily slide into the East if another western member is added. Additionally, academics has never been a huge requirement for the current membership of schools.

Since there are no slam-dunk candidates, and assuming Air Force, Army, Boise State, BYU, Colorado State and San Diego State are all off the table, the AAC can afford to call-up a member that can check several candidate boxes, but can acquire (or elevate) more of them with the additional AAC TV payouts under the duration of the next ESPN deal. Finally, no candidate can demonstrate that they have "written off" basketball, ala ECU/Tulane. Any new member needs to be football-first, but capable of having a competitive men's basketball program every now and then.

1. Football Market
2. Football Attendance
3. Football Success
4. Football Stadium Size
5. Market
6. Enrollment
7. Athletic Budget
8. Men's Basketball Success
9. Men's Basketball Attendance
10. Men's Basketball Arena Size

I may be biased but I don't think any G5 athletic department outside of the AAC has done more to improve their athletics over the last few seasons than North Texas. Facilities are being built, coaches salaries are going up. and all of our programs have solid foundations for continuing their success. Last year, every North Texas athletic program finished with a winning record. Sure SMU is in the same market, but our success and attendance numbers compare favorably. Plus it is a big market, and we target different populations. If the AAC does wait a few seasons, they should see North Texas become an even stronger candidate, as we continue to win, build more facilities, and continue to increase our revenue streams.

1. Football Market- Texas- Dallas/Fort Worth recruiting
2. Football Attendance- 2018- 23,355 avg
3. Football Success- Back to back 9 win seasons / 3 straight bowl games
4. Football Stadium Size- 30,850
5. Market- Dallas/Fort Worth 5th largest media market
6. Enrollment- 38,454
7. Athletic Budget- $36,000,000 spent on athletics annually
8. Men's Basketball Success- Back to back 20 win seasons / 2018 CBI Champions
9. Men's Basketball Attendance- 2018-2,644 avg
10. Men's Basketball Arena Size- 9,797
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2019 02:34 PM by Side Show Joe.)
07-01-2019 02:30 PM
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TardisCaptain Offline
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RE: Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
1- Highest heels
2- Shortest skirt
3- Plunging neckline
4- Brightest lipstick
07-01-2019 04:29 PM
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bullet Offline
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RE: Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
(07-01-2019 04:29 PM)TardisCaptain Wrote:  1- Highest heels
2- Shortest skirt
3- Plunging neckline
4- Brightest lipstick

SMU is already in the league.
07-01-2019 05:37 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
I'm going to break down candidates into the tiers I think they fall:

In if they want to join: Army, AFA, BYU

Next Tier of they all pass: ODU, Buffalo, UAB, Marshall, USM, UTSA, Rice

Not happening: the rest of the G5/FCS

I strain to include some of those candidates up there.

Rice is a redundancy and has a tiny alumni base and bad attendance but there is some history there.

UTSA is also a huge dark horse but we are talking a top 35 market with no NFL at a large state school in football crazy Texas. Houston and SMU could definitely veto them.

Marshall and USM are both C-USA legacy teams but they are in tiny markets and don't particularly distinguish themselves in the attendance figures.

I tossed UAB up there due to some shared history and that new stadium.

ODU makes a nice bridge between Temple and ECU. They spend on athletics.

Buffalo is intriguing. They are AAU and their football and basketball are improving. Paired with a temple they could keep the conference flag in the northeast.
07-01-2019 05:44 PM
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herdfan129 Offline
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RE: Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
(07-01-2019 05:44 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I'm going to break down candidates into the tiers I think they fall:

In if they want to join: Army, AFA, BYU

Next Tier of they all pass: ODU, Buffalo, UAB, Marshall, USM, UTSA, Rice

Not happening: the rest of the G5/FCS

I strain to include some of those candidates up there.

Rice is a redundancy and has a tiny alumni base and bad attendance but there is some history there.

UTSA is also a huge dark horse but we are talking a top 35 market with no NFL at a large state school in football crazy Texas. Houston and SMU could definitely veto them.

Marshall and USM are both C-USA legacy teams but they are in tiny markets and don't particularly distinguish themselves in the attendance figures.

I tossed UAB up there due to some shared history and that new stadium.

ODU makes a nice bridge between Temple and ECU. They spend on athletics.

Buffalo is intriguing. They are AAU and their football and basketball are improving. Paired with a temple they could keep the conference flag in the northeast.


I agree with most of this but Marshall is not in a tiny market. Huntington-Charleston is the #70 media market with no professional sport in the entire state. Marshall actually controls this market with being on the front page of newspapers as well as one of the main talking points on the local news. Not a huge market but definitely not tiny.

Huntington is only 149 miles away from Cincinnati so we would make an excellent travel partner with them. We have forever history with ECU considering the plane crash which spurred the movie We Are Marshall.

Marshall and So Miss are both suffering from fan apathy after being left behind. No one gets excited about playing the current CUSA teams. Put either of us back in the AAC and we will once again average around 28k/game which is around the AAC average.

Overall, a good breakdown which I agree with.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2019 05:55 PM by herdfan129.)
07-01-2019 05:54 PM
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esayem Offline
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RE: Ranking criteria for potential AAC candidates
(06-30-2019 03:05 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-29-2019 03:39 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(06-29-2019 08:22 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(06-29-2019 01:11 AM)esayem Wrote:  I think location matters quite a bit here. Yes, being on an island is not ideal (UConn just left and they were an island), but the candidate shouldn’t encroach on a member program and cause a bit too much competition. Unless, that team doesn’t recruit the same type of student athlete. For instance, having North Texas or UTSA would be more detrimental to Houston than Rice.

UAB, Southern Miss, and Rice stand out to me mainly due to their central location and history with current members. Rice has unlimited potential if they agree to spend a certain amount on their major sports. The football coach already makes a mil/year. They have three legit trophy games within the conference, plus Navy and Tulane would support them.

ODU and Marshall are interesting, but I wonder how ECU feels about ODU and Cincinnati about Marshall.

Although Marshall wins a lot it seems, small town small airport.
Virginia Beach, Newport, Hampton that is a metro area of 1.7 Million. And is a gold mine for football recruiting. Everyone around there has players from there on their team, UVA, UNC, ECU, NC State, VTech etc., everyone recruits there. ODU would have to get better, more consistent within the program. Lots of upside.

I think the AAC stays at 11, if they get the waiver or whatever is required to play a CCG.

Right. Cincinnati has never shared a conference with Marshall, as far as I know. I just don’t see that happening. I would place ODU over Marshall.

On another note, there is a giant naval base in Norfolk. I imagine Navy games would be standing room only.

But how does that benefit the AAC?

Navy may throw some support their way.
07-01-2019 09:55 PM
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