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Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
(06-29-2019 11:45 AM)bluesox Wrote:  If you want to make travel easy, trade BG and Miami of Ohio for the 2 Minnesota schools.

Miami University isn't one of the seven schools ... we play in the NCHC.

And before you switch that to trading BG and the Broncos, WMU is in the NCHC too.
06-29-2019 09:53 PM
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puck swami Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
(06-29-2019 09:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  If the NCAA approves to allow Simon Fraser to join D1 in Ice Hockey? How many Canadian schools join D2 to place their hockey teams in D1? We could see a spike of new fans coming to frozen four from Canada. This past season, the attendance for the Frozen 4 was down.

Won't happen. Canadian fans already have plenty of hockey to follow between the NHL, Minor League hockey (AHL, ECHL, etc.) , Junior hockey (WHL, OHL, QMJHL) and Canadian university hockey (U-Sports).

Most top Canadian hockey prospects (with a few exceptions) tend to play Major Junior Hockey in Canada from age 17-20, which the NCAA considers to be pro hockey, and those players are not ever allowed in the NCAA. The major junior players who then age out of the juniors after age 20 and don't make it to the NHL are the ones who populate Canadian University hockey rosters at ages 20-25. Canadian University hockey does not offer athletic scholarships like NCAA D-I schools do, but those Canadian schools tend to be more affordable than US schools, and major junior teams do pay a year of Canadian University tuition for each year the player played Major Junior (2-3 years, typically.), so Canadians can play USports in Canada even after washing out of the juniors or minor leagues, and those Canadian schools don't draw more than a few hundred fans.

In short, Canadian Universities would have a very hard time competing in NCAA D-I, as Canadian D-I talent is already either playing in the US colleges or playing major junior, and top US players don't typically want Canadian degrees (outside of maybe the top few Canadian schools, such as McGill, Toronto or UBC.)

The only way for Canadian University hockey to really compete with NCAA would be to offer athletic scholarships and try to keep Canadian prospects from playing in the US or Juniors, which would be very difficult, as Canadian schools just don't do scholarships.

Finally, the Frozen Four attendance was down this year largely because it was held in Buffalo, NY - a rust-belt city with low population, a low per capita income and is also not on most people's list of early April vacation spots. Non-Stop flights into Buffalo are often limited, difficult and expensive from many other cities, which also hurts access, Other NHL cities are far better Frozen Four event destinations. For example, Tampa (2016), Chicago (2017) and St. Paul (2018) were contractual sellouts, with much easier flights.
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2019 11:14 PM by puck swami.)
06-29-2019 11:05 PM
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AZcats Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
(06-29-2019 06:48 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(06-28-2019 05:11 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(06-28-2019 04:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Central Washington go to varsity with their club team? UNLV is talking to add hockey. Central Oklahoma could go varsity along with Oklahoma, Arkansas and Texas.

Stop.

I am talking about something to bail out the three schools who got backstabbed.

Yeah, you're talking about your delusions of "if", "could", and "waivers". It is much easier said than done to start a varsity ice hockey team. The expenses are among the highest of NCAA sports. Adding a men's ice hockey team means adding 1 or 2 women's teams because of T9 which comes with additional expenses. You have been told all this before. Arizona State received a donation of $32M to elevate their team to varsity while Central Oklahoma has a total athletic budget of less than $9M. Also, it appears Central Washington no longer has a club team.
06-29-2019 11:57 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
(06-29-2019 11:57 PM)AZcats Wrote:  Arizona State received a donation of $32M to elevate their team to varsity while Central Oklahoma has a total athletic budget of less than $9M. ...

The Penn State team, which led to the Big Ten sponsoring Hockey, started with an $88m donation.

Planning to start a new conference on the back of a number of donations along those lines is like the recipe for Grizzly Bear Soup, "First catch and clean one large adult male Grizzly Bear."
06-30-2019 01:06 AM
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Schadenfreude Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
(06-29-2019 09:23 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  Maybe you forgot but there used to be one Alaska per league and now you think it's okay to throw the entire weight of both Alaska schools and Huntsville on these small schools with small budgets.

Well said. While it is easy to throw stones at the seven departing schools, many actions by much of college hockey have led us to this point.
06-30-2019 05:18 AM
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MidWestMidMajor Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
Here is an article from today's Anchorage newspaper. More or less a restatement of what we already know. There are a few interesting details, such as in the past UAA and UAF were in 2 conferences so that schools only made 1 trip to Alaska each season rather than 2. At the USCHO fanboard it was mentioned that the Alaska schools do provide travel subsidies of between $15,000 to $20,000 per trip. But that might not cover the entire cost. And travel into Fairbanks in the winter is very difficult: fewer flights, more connections, longer trip times. The jet lag from a 4 hour time difference is a challenge as well. But it seems the major reason the WCHA 7 are making this move is that the other 3 schools have not been investing in the sport sufficiently, are finishing low in rankings, and are dragging the other schools down. Apparently UAA's move to an 800 seat on campus "practice rink" (and UAF is seriously considering a similar move) seems to have been the trigger.

"Between proposed budget cuts and WCHA shakeup, college hockey’s future in Alaska looks shaky"
https://www.adn.com/sports/uaa-athletics...oks-shaky/
06-30-2019 08:04 AM
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CoastalVANDAL Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
Looks like combining the two schools like LIU and UTRG did makes sense.
Keeping everything but hockey in Anchorage and placing hockey in Fairbanks would work.
The PAA center holds 1300 and can be expanded according to fans.
06-30-2019 10:11 AM
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MidWestMidMajor Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
On a fanboard I read that UAFairbanks has 1100 season ticket holders, UAAnchorage has 500.
Looks like there is stronger support for college hockey in Fairbanks (maybe less competition for things to do in the winter?).
I believe that idea of dividing sports between the 2 campuses was proposed 3 years ago during the last budget crunch.
But the NCAA would have to go along with 1 athletic program split between 2 different universities.
06-30-2019 10:21 AM
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CoastalVANDAL Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
(06-30-2019 10:21 AM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  On a fanboard I read that UAFairbanks has 1100 season ticket holders, UAAnchorage has 500.
Looks like there is stronger support for college hockey in Fairbanks (maybe less competition for things to do in the winter?).
I believe that idea of dividing sports between the 2 campuses was proposed 3 years ago during the last budget crunch.
But the NCAA would have to go along with 1 athletic program split between 2 different universities.

Combining the schools to save money is already being considered.
Fairbanks could get on campus hockey maybe 2600 seats attendance was 1900.
Anchorage gets the rest of the sports they have better facilities.
The hockey team could even play a few games at the other campus and vice versa for basketball.
University of Alaska can use both campuses to enhance their combined sports program.Maybe keep the Nanook name .
06-30-2019 10:44 AM
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bronconick Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
(06-29-2019 04:13 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  
(06-29-2019 11:45 AM)bluesox Wrote:  If you want to make travel easy, trade BG and Miami of Ohio for the 2 Minnesota schools.

Like this?


That would be fun, and I don't think it would be a step back for the NCHC. Minnesota State was an at-large Frozen Four team this year. That's a good program.

Without seeing budget numbers in Kalamazoo, my guess is that as long as WMU is able to schedule Ferris, BG and a smattering of MSU/Michigan/Notre Dame that they are non conference, they're fine as things stand.
06-30-2019 10:49 AM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
(06-29-2019 11:05 PM)puck swami Wrote:  
(06-29-2019 09:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  If the NCAA approves to allow Simon Fraser to join D1 in Ice Hockey? How many Canadian schools join D2 to place their hockey teams in D1? We could see a spike of new fans coming to frozen four from Canada. This past season, the attendance for the Frozen 4 was down.

Finally, the Frozen Four attendance was down this year largely because it was held in Buffalo, NY - a rust-belt city with low population, a low per capita income and is also not on most people's list of early April vacation spots. Non-Stop flights into Buffalo are often limited, difficult and expensive from many other cities, which also hurts access, Other NHL cities are far better Frozen Four event destinations. For example, Tampa (2016), Chicago (2017) and St. Paul (2018) were contractual sellouts, with much easier flights.

Buffalo is a highly respected hockey market that keeps getting selected to host hockey’s World Junior Championships.

Quote:In the 41 years of the tournament's history, the United States has hosted the event five times and co-hosted with Canada once. Buffalo has been the host city for the past two World Junior tournaments in the United States. Buffalo hosted the event back in 2011, and again just one month ago at KeyBank Center and HarborCenter.

When Buffalo won the bid to host the 2018 World Junior tournament, other cities like St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay and Chicago were also in the running to host the event.

Buffalo, year-after-year, is the NHL’s most reliable market for tv ratings. Nearly every SCF market ratings look like this:
1) SCF participant
2) SCF participant
3) Buffalo

This is what happened last time Buffalo hosted the Frozen Four:
Quote:It also was a significant drop from the last time Buffalo hosted a Frozen Four. The NCAA lists attendance for the 2003 tournament at the building then known as HSBC Arena at 18,535 for the first semifinal, 18,551 for the second semifinal and 18,659 for the national championship game between Minnesota and New Hampshire. Tickets for the 2003 Frozen Four in Buffalo also sold out more than a year in advance.

Looks like this year’s attendance was more of a chink in college hockey’s armor than anything, as Buffalo is thought of highly enough to keep getting picked to host hockey’s most prestigious events - beating out 2 of the 3 cities you mentioned (Chicago, Tampa).
06-30-2019 07:06 PM
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bronconick Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
Buffalo getting a bunch of WJC hosting is because it's an American city right next to Canada and Canada is the only place where anyone cares about the World Juniors.
06-30-2019 10:29 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
(06-30-2019 10:29 PM)bronconick Wrote:  Buffalo getting a bunch of WJC hosting is because it's an American city right next to Canada and Canada is the only place where anyone cares about the World Juniors.

I happened to be in Helsinki when they hosted WJC’s. Had to wait an hour in freezing temps for a cab because there weren’t enough cabs to supply the amount of people waiting. Went to a casino where you couldn’t move because everyone was watching Finland on the big screen (every big screen had it on). It had the vibe of World Cup Soccer.

(I also remember being particularly frustrated because not one place had the channels for the bowl games. Remains the only NYD I couldn’t watch CFB. 03-banghead)
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2019 11:25 PM by IWokeUpLikeThis.)
06-30-2019 11:03 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
(06-30-2019 10:11 AM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  Looks like combining the two schools like LIU and UTRG did makes sense.
Keeping everything but hockey in Anchorage and placing hockey in Fairbanks would work.
The PAA center holds 1300 and can be expanded according to fans.

What makes a merger appealing in a "one gets hockey, the other gets BBall" deal is that a school needs 5/5 or 4/6 M/W sports in Division II. Division I Men's Hockey in Fairbanks with Division I Skiiing, and Division I Gymnastics in Anchorage with Division II Basketball, Track & Cross Country and Women's Volleyball and as a single institution for sports purposes, you've got 6/6.

One thing about the approach that the 7 WCHA schools are taking is that if they are willing to make one long conference trip every year, but not three, this process puts them in a position to audition one of the three "long trip" schools for that spot.

A process of voting schools out doesn't put you in good position to have an audition between them for one spot ... but we've seen from a number of conference "audition" processes how easy it is to organize an audition for an open spot.

On conference performance, Fairbanks was 12-14, UAH was 8-18 and Anchorage was 2-23, so Fairbanks would have the inside track.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2019 10:10 AM by BruceMcF.)
07-01-2019 01:33 AM
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Post: #55
RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
(07-01-2019 01:33 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  One thing about the approach that the 7 WCHA schools are taking is that if they are willing to make one long conference trip every second year, this process puts them in a position to audition one of the three "long trip" school for that spot.

This has crossed my mind, too.
07-01-2019 08:16 AM
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MidWestMidMajor Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
I had a thought that maybe the governor of Alaska is using his leverage by (at least for now) withholding $130 million to force deep structural changes for greater efficiency to the UA system. Things have changed since UAF opened about 100 years ago as the Alaska Agricultural College and School of Mines. UAA became a 4 year school only about 40 years ago and now has double the enrollment of UAF. UAA's prospects for growth seem better because of its location (Anchorage metro area is 4xs the size of the Fairbanks). So maybe the roles need to reverse and UAA becomes the flagship and UAF becomes an extension that is the home of certain specialized programs? (But would that satisfy the NCAA so that they could have a combined athletic program: some sports in Anchorage, some sports in Fairbanks?)
07-01-2019 08:33 AM
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RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
Out of curiosity I used expedia to price round trip plane tickets. I figure that the Bowling Green hockey team buses 70 miles to the Detroit airport. BGSU plays at UAA on Nov. 15/16 this year. Plane tickets for single travelers start at $422 -1 stop in Seattle. (Fairbanks starts at $556 that same weekend.) If they bring 22 players, 3 coaches, equipment mgr and trainer, that's 26 people. The plane fare for Anchorage is around $11,000. Then they'll need hotels for at least 3 nights. Hotels.com can get you a room in an Extended Stay America for about $250 for 3 days; 2 to a room means $3250 in hotel costs. And they'll need to eat something: $30 per diem for 4 days = $3120. I'm up to $17,370 before I've figured how to ship the equipment. That must be expensive to ship all the skates, sticks and other stuff 6000 miles round trip. (Maybe to save money goalies have to wear their equipment on the flight or put their leg pads in the overhead bin !!) I suspect this trip will cost in the vicinity of $20,000. That's my educated guess- if somebody has more accurate info, I'd love to see it. I read on the USCHO fanboard that UAA offers $15,000 travel subsidy. So, yes, the WCHA 7 are losing money on their trips to the 49th state.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2019 09:30 AM by MidWestMidMajor.)
07-01-2019 09:21 AM
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Post: #58
RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
(07-01-2019 09:21 AM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  Out of curiosity I used expedia to price round trip plane tickets. I figure that the Bowling Green hockey team buses 70 miles to the Detroit airport. BGSU plays at UAA on Nov. 15/16 this year. Plane tickets for single travelers start at $422 -1 stop in Seattle. (Fairbanks starts at $556 that same weekend.) If they bring 22 players, 3 coaches, equipment mgr and trainer, that's 26 people. The plane fare for Anchorage is around $11,000. Then they'll need hotels for at least 3 nights. Hotels.com can get you a room in an Extended Stay America for about $250 for 3 days; 2 to a room means $3250 in hotel costs. And they'll need to eat something: $30 per diem for 4 days = $3120. I'm up to $17,370 before I've figured how to ship the equipment. That must be expensive to ship all the skates, sticks and other stuff 6000 miles round trip. (Maybe to save money goalies have to wear their equipment on the flight or put their leg pads in the overhead bin !!) I suspect this trip will cost in the vicinity of $20,000. That's my educated guess- if somebody has more accurate info, I'd love to see it. I read on the USCHO fanboard that UAA offers $15,000 travel subsidy. So, yes, the WCHA 7 are losing money on their trips to the 49th state.

Those flight prices seem a bit low. My impression is that flights are tougher to get in winter. But I haven't personally priced them.

As far as the work involved in making a trip from Bowling Green to Alaska: The Toledo Blade published a interesting feature on the team's second trip to Alaska last season. These trips are clearly a grind.

https://www.toledoblade.com/sports/bgsu/...0190116121
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2019 09:44 AM by Schadenfreude.)
07-01-2019 09:42 AM
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Post: #59
RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
(07-01-2019 09:42 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  As far as the work involved in making a trip from Bowling Green to Alaska: The Toledo Blade published a interesting feature on the team's second trip to Alaska last season. These trips are clearly a grind.

https://www.toledoblade.com/sports/bgsu/...0190116121

That article was a great find. This line sums it up:
"In four days, the Falcons will travel more than 7,000 miles, play two games that will end in the early morning hours of the Eastern time zone, and spend more than 30 total hours on planes, buses, and in airports."

BGSU goes to Anchorage in November and Fairbanks in February.
07-01-2019 09:53 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Seven schools have announced a new college hockey league
(06-30-2019 10:11 AM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  Looks like combining the two schools like LIU and UTRG did makes sense.
Keeping everything but hockey in Anchorage and placing hockey in Fairbanks would work.

The PAA center holds 1300 and can be expanded according to fans.

Well, everything else but skiiing. Gymnastics, basketball, cross country, track, women's volleyball ... sure ... but putting the skiiing in Anchorage might not be the best move.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2019 10:13 AM by BruceMcF.)
07-01-2019 10:13 AM
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