The unofficial online home for fans of the University of Cincinnati Bearcats. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(06-29-2019 09:22 AM)converrl Wrote:  An argument could be made here for uncoupling MBB and FB and letting the revenue sports associate based on the strength of each individual revenue sport.

This would provide for better rivalries since conferences would be formed "ala carte".

example: Duke MBB--ACC
Duke FB--AAC
UK MBB--SEC
UK FB--Sun Belt

It would honestly give UC a better chance of getting MBB into a power conference.

Which is why it will never happen. The Cartel doesn't want to acknowledge any strength of a non-traditional program.

And ESPN will never agree

(06-29-2019 08:05 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(06-28-2019 09:14 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  

(06-28-2019 05:11 PM)crex043 Wrote:  If the AAC adds a school, it needs to be a school that won't destroy your conference reputation if they pull off an upset or end up winning the league. Imagine how disastrous it would be if we invited ODU or Georgia State and they ended up winning the conference championship in their first three years. It would cannibalize the league because of the perception of the school. When UConn won the conference in football with a record barely above .500, it hurt the perception.

So... BYU... And who else?

No one else in the G5.

BYU
+
There are are several MWC teams I'd be good with.

I agree.

BYU would be great. BYU + SDSU + Boise would be better.

I'd also be good with Air Force or CSU.

If none of those say yes, I'd like VCU and/or Dayton.

No one else comes even close. Not Army - every 15 years they have a season worth writing about, but you have to live with 12 awful and 2 mediocre seasons to get there.

(06-29-2019 12:30 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-29-2019 08:05 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(06-28-2019 09:14 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  

(06-28-2019 05:11 PM)crex043 Wrote:  If the AAC adds a school, it needs to be a school that won't destroy your conference reputation if they pull off an upset or end up winning the league. Imagine how disastrous it would be if we invited ODU or Georgia State and they ended up winning the conference championship in their first three years. It would cannibalize the league because of the perception of the school. When UConn won the conference in football with a record barely above .500, it hurt the perception.

So... BYU... And who else?

No one else in the G5.

BYU
+
There are are several MWC teams I'd be good with.

I agree.

BYU would be great. BYU + SDSU + Boise would be better.

I'd also be good with Air Force or CSU.

If none of those say yes, I'd like VCU and/or Dayton.

No one else comes even close. Not Army - every 15 years they have a season worth writing about, but you have to live with 12 awful and 2 mediocre seasons to get there.

Outside of Dayton, the Flyers do not move the needle. I do not want Dayton who belong in the BE as do other small or medium Catholic Schools.

(06-29-2019 02:29 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(06-29-2019 12:30 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-29-2019 08:05 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(06-28-2019 09:14 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  

(06-28-2019 05:11 PM)crex043 Wrote:  If the AAC adds a school, it needs to be a school that won't destroy your conference reputation if they pull off an upset or end up winning the league. Imagine how disastrous it would be if we invited ODU or Georgia State and they ended up winning the conference championship in their first three years. It would cannibalize the league because of the perception of the school. When UConn won the conference in football with a record barely above .500, it hurt the perception.

So... BYU... And who else?

No one else in the G5.

BYU
+
There are are several MWC teams I'd be good with.

I agree.

BYU would be great. BYU + SDSU + Boise would be better.

I'd also be good with Air Force or CSU.

If none of those say yes, I'd like VCU and/or Dayton.

No one else comes even close. Not Army - every 15 years they have a season worth writing about, but you have to live with 12 awful and 2 mediocre seasons to get there.

Outside of Dayton, the Flyers do not move the needle. I do not want Dayton who belong in the BE as do other small or medium Catholic Schools.

Dayton is regularly a top ranked market for college basketball TV viewership. I think bringing in UD helps significantly with American’s basketball profile. Fan base that sells out games and watches college basketball religiously now watching your conference and teams. I have continued to push VCU and Dayton while advocating moving the tournament to Cincinnati. Give me any of the other solid football candidates and we are good to go. Conference has basketball problem and fan support problem. It doesn’t have a football quality problem. It’s almost too difficult at the top with UCF, Cincinnati, Memphis, Houston, Navy, Temple, and USF all potentially having a very good team depending on the season. Wth UConn out, ECU, Tulane, Tulsa, and SMU all improving I don’t see a lot of layups going forward.

(06-29-2019 08:19 AM)doss2 Wrote:  

(06-28-2019 09:09 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

Takeaways:

Keep 8 game conference schedule
8 games will not work in 2 divisions of 5/6
UConn FB only - NO WAY
Without a 12th teams must get approval to play Champ game
Will consider FB only
Interested parties may apply at mAresco/aac.com

Given Espn has both parties now, with the west college football schools lagging it's more possible now than it was 6 or 7 years ago. That would be a big coup to add a Byu for a Uconn in fball.

(06-29-2019 12:27 PM)crex043 Wrote:  

(06-29-2019 09:22 AM)converrl Wrote:  An argument could be made here for uncoupling MBB and FB and letting the revenue sports associate based on the strength of each individual revenue sport.

This would provide for better rivalries since conferences would be formed "ala carte".

example: Duke MBB--ACC
Duke FB--AAC
UK MBB--SEC
UK FB--Sun Belt

It would honestly give UC a better chance of getting MBB into a power conference.

Which is why it will never happen. The Cartel doesn't want to acknowledge any strength of a non-traditional program.

And ESPN will never agree

Well...if ESPN continues to lose influence, the economics may drive such a model in order to provide for more compelling matchups in each revenue sport for the wide variety of streaming services and other modes of live sports access coming down the pike as we speak.

Georgia State?

(06-29-2019 08:42 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  Georgia State?

hard pass

Let's quit pussyfootin' around. Boise St. is the real deal folks in terms of results on the field. BYU has the stronger national brand. I would take either one as the 12th member in a NY minute. No one else adds value at their level. None. That's why I'm pretty confident we're staying at 11 teams for now because neither one wants in AT THIS TIME. For poops and giggles, check out the last 10 seasons...

Boise St. 109-24 (.820) [7-2 Bowls]
UCF 86-44 (.662) [4-4 Bowls]/Houston 86-44 (.662) [3-5 Bowls]
Cincinnati 80-47 (.630) [3-4 Bowls]
BYU 81-49 (.623) [6-3 Bowls]
Navy 79-52 (.603) [5-3 Bowls]
Temple 73-54 (.575) [2-4 Bowls]
USF 66-59 (.528) [4-2 Bowls]
East Carolina 60-66 (.476) [1-4 Bowls]/Tulsa 60-66 (.476) [3-2 Bowls]
Memphis 57-69 (.452) [1-4 Bowls]
SMU 55-71 (.437) [3-2 Bowls]
Tulane 40-83 (.325) [1-1 Bowls]

Flash in the pan happens. Remember reversion to the norm.

Longer term FB success record of winning years (out of 24 unless noted):

Boise 22 of 24
Toledo 21
BYU 20
UC 17
Air Force 17
CSU 16
SDSU 15
BUFF 7
UAB 5 Iof 22
ARMY 4

So the recent Buffalo and Army success revert to the norm? Short term success is often coach and not program related. Coaches come and go.

If Monken leaves will Army revert.

Ideally, a conference would consist of a group of like-minded peer institutions that are close enough graphically to establish natural rivalries and facilitate significant numbers of fans traveling to "away" games. Though not a power conference by any stretch of the imagination, the MAC comes pretty close to being ideal.

The AAC barely qualifies now, with its disparate collection of mostly large, urban, public universities and smaller private schools widely scattered across the eastern half of the US. Adding BYU, geographically isolated and a decidedly cultural outlier, wouldn't be an improvement. Neither would the addition of Boise State or any other school west of the 100th meridian. As diverse as the AAC is, current members have nothing in common with those distant candidates.

Yeah, yeah, geography doesn't matter in this digital age if there's an airport nearby, blah blah blah...

Bull crap.

(06-30-2019 12:06 PM)colohank Wrote:  Ideally, a conference would consist of a group of like-minded peer institutions that are close enough graphically to establish natural rivalries and facilitate significant numbers of fans traveling to "away" games. Though not a power conference by any stretch of the imagination, the MAC comes pretty close to being ideal.

The AAC barely qualifies now, with its disparate collection of mostly large, urban, public universities and smaller private schools widely scattered across the eastern half of the US. Adding BYU, geographically isolated and a decidedly cultural outlier, wouldn't be an improvement. Neither would the addition of Boise State or any other school west of the 100th meridian. As diverse as the AAC is, current members have nothing in common with those distant candidates.

Yeah, yeah, geography doesn't matter in this digital age if there's an airport nearby, blah blah blah...

Bull crap.

I agree that geography is more important than we are led to believe in the digital era. I really miss being in a conference with the likes of Louisville, West Virginia, and Pitt. We have nothing resembling a regional rivalry in the AAC, and that is a shame.

(06-30-2019 12:06 PM)colohank Wrote:  Ideally, a conference would consist of a group of like-minded peer institutions that are close enough graphically to establish natural rivalries and facilitate significant numbers of fans traveling to "away" games. Though not a power conference by any stretch of the imagination, the MAC comes pretty close to being ideal.

The AAC barely qualifies now, with its disparate collection of mostly large, urban, public universities and smaller private schools widely scattered across the eastern half of the US. Adding BYU, geographically isolated and a decidedly cultural outlier, wouldn't be an improvement. Neither would the addition of Boise State or any other school west of the 100th meridian. As diverse as the AAC is, current members have nothing in common with those distant candidates.

Yeah, yeah, geography doesn't matter in this digital age if there's an airport nearby, blah blah blah...

Bull crap.

The problem is the remaining teams that add VALUE [real and perceived] are not in a convenient geographic footprint to our conference unless you're willing to add teams like ODU, Marshall, Toledo, Southern Miss, UAB, et al. Aresco has stated repeatedly, and I assume our conference institutions as well, that the league will not expand [or add 12th member] unless it is value added. No one adds value like Boise or BYU does. Geography is no longer in play unless the league wants to water itself down. We've been there, done that and need to avoid CUSA 3.0.

(06-30-2019 12:06 PM)colohank Wrote:  Ideally, a conference would consist of a group of like-minded peer institutions that are close enough graphically to establish natural rivalries and facilitate significant numbers of fans traveling to "away" games. Though not a power conference by any stretch of the imagination, the MAC comes pretty close to being ideal.

The AAC barely qualifies now, with its disparate collection of mostly large, urban, public universities and smaller private schools widely scattered across the eastern half of the US. Adding BYU, geographically isolated and a decidedly cultural outlier, wouldn't be an improvement. Neither would the addition of Boise State or any other school west of the 100th meridian. As diverse as the AAC is, current members have nothing in common with those distant candidates.

Yeah, yeah, geography doesn't matter in this digital age if there's an airport nearby, blah blah blah...

Bull crap.

Perhaps in the world as it should be. Unfortunately, UC/AAC has to live in the world as it is. The two geographical fits for UC don't work - OSU will never allow UC in the Big 10 and the MAC would be a step backwards. The ACC is the next geographical fit, but they aren't expanding. So, now we have to do the best with what is available.

Now our thinking is similar to the Big 12 - better to sit where we are rather than add a team that isn't an obvious fit.

Regarding geography - you get out west and the geography doesn't work for any conference; and it definitely doesn't work for Boise or BYU.

Finally, I'll add this point - I think all the movement in college athletics has been consolidation; not realignment. The next domino to fall is B12. Texas and Oklahoma will find homes in the P5. We will join a new conference with the remnants. So we should keep that geography in mind too. Seems like there are two scenarios when that occurs: we get added to the B12 remnants or a new conference emerges.

If we are added - you can imagine them taking 4 teams - UC, UCF, USF and (BYU, Boise, Houston, Memphis, CSU??)

If a new conference forms who are the best 12, 14 or 16 left to make the new conference? Could it be a truly national conference with two 8/9 team divisions that are in geographical proximity?

While it is far fetched - I believe it is as likely as us getting an invite to the ACC.

(06-30-2019 12:06 PM)colohank Wrote:  Ideally, a conference would consist of a group of like-minded peer institutions that are close enough graphically to establish natural rivalries and facilitate significant numbers of fans traveling to "away" games. Though not a power conference by any stretch of the imagination, the MAC comes pretty close to being ideal.

The AAC barely qualifies now, with its disparate collection of mostly large, urban, public universities and smaller private schools widely scattered across the eastern half of the US. Adding BYU, geographically isolated and a decidedly cultural outlier, wouldn't be an improvement. Neither would the addition of Boise State or any other school west of the 100th meridian. As diverse as the AAC is, current members have nothing in common with those distant candidates.

Yeah, yeah, geography doesn't matter in this digital age if there's an airport nearby, blah blah blah...

Bull crap.

8 of the members are large public universities. Only private SMU, Tulane and especially Tulsa at under 5k does not belong.

(06-30-2019 07:00 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(06-30-2019 12:06 PM)colohank Wrote:  Ideally, a conference would consist of a group of like-minded peer institutions that are close enough graphically to establish natural rivalries and facilitate significant numbers of fans traveling to "away" games. Though not a power conference by any stretch of the imagination, the MAC comes pretty close to being ideal.

The AAC barely qualifies now, with its disparate collection of mostly large, urban, public universities and smaller private schools widely scattered across the eastern half of the US. Adding BYU, geographically isolated and a decidedly cultural outlier, wouldn't be an improvement. Neither would the addition of Boise State or any other school west of the 100th meridian. As diverse as the AAC is, current members have nothing in common with those distant candidates.

Yeah, yeah, geography doesn't matter in this digital age if there's an airport nearby, blah blah blah...

Bull crap.

8 of the members are large public universities. Only private SMU, Tulane and especially Tulsa at under 5k does belong.

The conference is basically a modern version of the Metro Conference, problem is that Louisville got promoted instead of UConn.

(06-30-2019 02:31 PM)bearcat_df Wrote:  

(06-30-2019 12:06 PM)colohank Wrote:  Ideally, a conference would consist of a group of like-minded peer institutions that are close enough graphically to establish natural rivalries and facilitate significant numbers of fans traveling to "away" games. Though not a power conference by any stretch of the imagination, the MAC comes pretty close to being ideal.

The AAC barely qualifies now, with its disparate collection of mostly large, urban, public universities and smaller private schools widely scattered across the eastern half of the US. Adding BYU, geographically isolated and a decidedly cultural outlier, wouldn't be an improvement. Neither would the addition of Boise State or any other school west of the 100th meridian. As diverse as the AAC is, current members have nothing in common with those distant candidates.

Yeah, yeah, geography doesn't matter in this digital age if there's an airport nearby, blah blah blah...

Bull crap.

Perhaps in the world as it should be. Unfortunately, UC/AAC has to live in the world as it is. The two geographical fits for UC don't work - OSU will never allow UC in the Big 10 and the MAC would be a step backwards. The ACC is the next geographical fit, but they aren't expanding. So, now we have to do the best with what is available.

Now our thinking is similar to the Big 12 - better to sit where we are rather than add a team that isn't an obvious fit.

Regarding geography - you get out west and the geography doesn't work for any conference; and it definitely doesn't work for Boise or BYU.

Finally, I'll add this point - I think all the movement in college athletics has been consolidation; not realignment. The next domino to fall is B12. Texas and Oklahoma will find homes in the P5. We will join a new conference with the remnants. So we should keep that geography in mind too. Seems like there are two scenarios when that occurs: we get added to the B12 remnants or a new conference emerges.

If we are added - you can imagine them taking 4 teams - UC, UCF, USF and (BYU, Boise, Houston, Memphis, CSU??)

If a new conference forms who are the best 12, 14 or 16 left to make the new conference? Could it be a truly national conference with two 8/9 team divisions that are in geographical proximity?

While it is far fetched - I believe it is as likely as us getting an invite to the ACC.

I suspect that you are right about consolidation as the wave of the future, and in that case, things look grim for UC.

The likeliest route to consolidation is that the B12 is assimilated into the other 4 power conferences. The probable scenario is 4 16-team conferences. There are now 64 or 65 power conference teams (depending on how one counts ND), so all the B12 members could be assimilated by the other remaining power conferences. Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas are shoo-ins. UC's hope is to cut in front of one of the weak B12 teams. It seems possible but unlikely.

(06-30-2019 08:18 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(06-30-2019 02:31 PM)bearcat_df Wrote:  

(06-30-2019 12:06 PM)colohank Wrote:  Ideally, a conference would consist of a group of like-minded peer institutions that are close enough graphically to establish natural rivalries and facilitate significant numbers of fans traveling to "away" games. Though not a power conference by any stretch of the imagination, the MAC comes pretty close to being ideal.

The AAC barely qualifies now, with its disparate collection of mostly large, urban, public universities and smaller private schools widely scattered across the eastern half of the US. Adding BYU, geographically isolated and a decidedly cultural outlier, wouldn't be an improvement. Neither would the addition of Boise State or any other school west of the 100th meridian. As diverse as the AAC is, current members have nothing in common with those distant candidates.

Yeah, yeah, geography doesn't matter in this digital age if there's an airport nearby, blah blah blah...

Bull crap.

Perhaps in the world as it should be. Unfortunately, UC/AAC has to live in the world as it is. The two geographical fits for UC don't work - OSU will never allow UC in the Big 10 and the MAC would be a step backwards. The ACC is the next geographical fit, but they aren't expanding. So, now we have to do the best with what is available.

Now our thinking is similar to the Big 12 - better to sit where we are rather than add a team that isn't an obvious fit.

Regarding geography - you get out west and the geography doesn't work for any conference; and it definitely doesn't work for Boise or BYU.

Finally, I'll add this point - I think all the movement in college athletics has been consolidation; not realignment. The next domino to fall is B12. Texas and Oklahoma will find homes in the P5. We will join a new conference with the remnants. So we should keep that geography in mind too. Seems like there are two scenarios when that occurs: we get added to the B12 remnants or a new conference emerges.

If we are added - you can imagine them taking 4 teams - UC, UCF, USF and (BYU, Boise, Houston, Memphis, CSU??)

If a new conference forms who are the best 12, 14 or 16 left to make the new conference? Could it be a truly national conference with two 8/9 team divisions that are in geographical proximity?

While it is far fetched - I believe it is as likely as us getting an invite to the ACC.

I suspect that you are right about consolidation as the wave of the future, and in that case, things look grim for UC.

The likeliest route to consolidation is that the B12 is assimilated into the other 4 power conferences. The probable scenario is 4 16-team conferences. There are now 64 or 65 power conference teams (depending on how one counts ND), so all the B12 members could be assimilated by the other remaining power conferences. Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas are shoo-ins. UC's hope is to cut in front of one of the weak B12 teams. It seems possible but unlikely.

Most likely scenario is that UC joins the Big XII leftovers.

(06-30-2019 08:25 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  

(06-30-2019 08:18 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(06-30-2019 02:31 PM)bearcat_df Wrote:  

(06-30-2019 12:06 PM)colohank Wrote:  Ideally, a conference would consist of a group of like-minded peer institutions that are close enough graphically to establish natural rivalries and facilitate significant numbers of fans traveling to "away" games. Though not a power conference by any stretch of the imagination, the MAC comes pretty close to being ideal.

The AAC barely qualifies now, with its disparate collection of mostly large, urban, public universities and smaller private schools widely scattered across the eastern half of the US. Adding BYU, geographically isolated and a decidedly cultural outlier, wouldn't be an improvement. Neither would the addition of Boise State or any other school west of the 100th meridian. As diverse as the AAC is, current members have nothing in common with those distant candidates.

Yeah, yeah, geography doesn't matter in this digital age if there's an airport nearby, blah blah blah...

Bull crap.

Perhaps in the world as it should be. Unfortunately, UC/AAC has to live in the world as it is. The two geographical fits for UC don't work - OSU will never allow UC in the Big 10 and the MAC would be a step backwards. The ACC is the next geographical fit, but they aren't expanding. So, now we have to do the best with what is available.

Now our thinking is similar to the Big 12 - better to sit where we are rather than add a team that isn't an obvious fit.

Regarding geography - you get out west and the geography doesn't work for any conference; and it definitely doesn't work for Boise or BYU.

Finally, I'll add this point - I think all the movement in college athletics has been consolidation; not realignment. The next domino to fall is B12. Texas and Oklahoma will find homes in the P5. We will join a new conference with the remnants. So we should keep that geography in mind too. Seems like there are two scenarios when that occurs: we get added to the B12 remnants or a new conference emerges.

If we are added - you can imagine them taking 4 teams - UC, UCF, USF and (BYU, Boise, Houston, Memphis, CSU??)

If a new conference forms who are the best 12, 14 or 16 left to make the new conference? Could it be a truly national conference with two 8/9 team divisions that are in geographical proximity?

While it is far fetched - I believe it is as likely as us getting an invite to the ACC.

I suspect that you are right about consolidation as the wave of the future, and in that case, things look grim for UC.

The likeliest route to consolidation is that the B12 is assimilated into the other 4 power conferences. The probable scenario is 4 16-team conferences. There are now 64 or 65 power conference teams (depending on how one counts ND), so all the B12 members could be assimilated by the other remaining power conferences. Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas are shoo-ins. UC's hope is to cut in front of one of the weak B12 teams. It seems possible but unlikely.

Most likely scenario is that UC joins the Big XII leftovers.

The question is whether this conference will be a power conference. Will it keep the B12 dedicated spot in the NY6 bowls? Will it have a TV payout on par with other power conferences? ESPN and the remaining P4 will not go down without a fight.

(06-30-2019 08:32 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(06-30-2019 08:25 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Most likely scenario is that UC joins the Big XII leftovers.

The question is whether this conference will be a power conference. Will it keep the B12 dedicated spot in the NY6 bowls? Will it have a TV payout on par with other power conferences? ESPN and the remaining P4 will not go down without a fight.

it'd sorta be like joining the big east again